Father of Oregon killer blames GUNS, not son, for massacre?

[2aguy]

And the funny and sad thing is....you anti gun extremists have made so many areas "gun free" where a life of a normal gun owner will be destroyed if they carry a gun into the area that the risk isn't worth carrying the gun...

Damn fucking straight. I don't want you gun nuts going into the bars I drink at or the places I work.

Here's the thing. I don't worry about the criminals.

I worry about people like you.

Of course you don't worry about the actual killers....you hate people.....normal people....that is why everything you do targets normal people and not criminals....

 

[2aguy]

Here you go again joe....just a few of the mass shootings stopped by armed citizens...

you can repeat this horseshit all day

33000 gun deaths

200 of them justifiable

32,800 - not so much. Tragedies because someone who shouldn't have had a gun, did.

According to FBI table 8....

2014....8,124 gun murders

According to CDC final homicide stats table 10, 2013

Accidental gun deaths....505

according to bill clinton the number of times Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack...1,500,000

Yeah...your math skills suck...

 

[2aguy]

Here you go again joe....just a few of the mass shootings stopped by armed citizens...

you can repeat this horseshit all day

33000 gun deaths

200 of them justifiable

32,800 - not so much. Tragedies because someone who shouldn't have had a gun, did.

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

And here is the FBI table 8……it is a great table because it goes back4 years to show the rates of decrease….

2014 table…..

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

From 2014…..and I added 2011……

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Murder by firearm….

2007-- 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010-- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,124

 

[JoeB131]

Of course you don't worry about the actual killers....you hate people.....normal people....that is why everything you do targets normal people and not criminals....

The vast majority of gun deaths are 'normal people' who just had a really shitty day made worse by the easy availability of a gun.

The vast majority of gun deaths are suicides, accidents and domestic violence, all of which wouldn't be possible if a gun hadn't been in the hands of a civilian who had no business having one to start with.

And here is the FBI table 8……it is a great table because it goes back4 years to show the rates of decrease….

And we still don't give a fuck. If you want me to accept the FBI's INCOMPLETE figures for 2014, then you should accept the FBI's position that there are only 47,000 DGU's a year.

 

[2aguy]

Here you go again joe....just a few of the mass shootings stopped by armed citizens...

you can repeat this horseshit all day

33000 gun deaths

200 of them justifiable

32,800 - not so much. Tragedies because someone who shouldn't have had a gun, did.

gun murder from FBI table 8 going back to 2006.....

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

And here is the FBI table 8……it is a great table because it goes back4 years to show the rates of decrease….

2014 table…..

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

From 2014…..and I added 2011……

2006

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8



Murder by firearm….

2006-- 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,124

And one thing to note....in no year has the death by all types of rifle, not just scary looking AR-15s which are used probably less than 5 times in any year, in no year has the murder by semi auto rifle been greater than murder by knife, clubs, or bare hands.

 

[2aguy]

Of course you don't worry about the actual killers....you hate people.....normal people....that is why everything you do targets normal people and not criminals....

The vast majority of gun deaths are 'normal people' who just had a really shitty day made worse by the easy availability of a gun.

The vast majority of gun deaths are suicides, accidents and domestic violence, all of which wouldn't be possible if a gun hadn't been in the hands of a civilian who had no business having one to start with.

And here is the FBI table 8……it is a great table because it goes back4 years to show the rates of decrease….

And we still don't give a fuck. If you want me to accept the FBI's INCOMPLETE figures for 2014, then you should accept the FBI's position that there are only 47,000 DGU's a year.

Wrong, again. The majority of all gun murders are committed by people with criminal records, the majority of people shot are people with criminal records...you have seen the stats, you know the truth and you hate it because it shows in reality that your fear of normal people is in your head, not in reality.

 

[2aguy]

Of course you don't worry about the actual killers....you hate people.....normal people....that is why everything you do targets normal people and not criminals....

The vast majority of gun deaths are 'normal people' who just had a really shitty day made worse by the easy availability of a gun.

The vast majority of gun deaths are suicides, accidents and domestic violence, all of which wouldn't be possible if a gun hadn't been in the hands of a civilian who had no business having one to start with.

And here is the FBI table 8……it is a great table because it goes back4 years to show the rates of decrease….

And we still don't give a fuck. If you want me to accept the FBI's INCOMPLETE figures for 2014, then you should accept the FBI's position that there are only 47,000 DGU's a year.

Do normal people commit gun murder....no.....again...no.....and one last time...no....

Most murder victims in big cities have criminal record

A review of murder statistics across America shows that in many large cities, up to 90 percent of the victims have criminal records.
-------
The report concludes that “of the 2011 homicide victims, 77 percent (66) had a least one prior arrest and of the known 2011 homicide suspects 90 percent (74) had at least one prior arrest.”
----------


In early 2012, after pressure put on the police by murder victims’ families in New Orleans, the police department stopped revealing whether or not the murder victim had a prior record.

---------------

Though data is no longer published in Baltimore, USA Today reported in 2007 that 91 percent of the then-205 murder victims in the city between Jan. 1 and Aug. 31, 2007, had criminal records.

---------
A WND review of the Philadelphia Police Department Murder and Shooting Analysis for 2011 shows a similar pattern to that of other large cities in America – a majority of the murder victims have prior records.



--------
In Philadelphia in 2011, of 324 murders, 81 percent (263) of the victims had at least one prior arrest; 62 percent (164) had been arrested for a violent crime prior to their murder.

----------

In Newark, N.J., long considered one of America’s most dangerous cities, 85 percent of the 165 murder victims between 2009 and 2010 had serious arrest histories.

Anthony Braga, a professor with the Rutgers-Newark School of Criminal Justice, told the Newark Star-Ledger that 85 percent of 165 murder victims in Newark between 2009 and 2010 had been arrested at least once before they were killed.

Those victims, he said, had, on average, 10 prior arrests on their criminal records.

A WND review of the Chicago Police Department Murder Analysis reports from 2003 to 2011 provides a statistical breakdown of the demographics of both the victims and offenders in the 4,265 murders in Chicago over that time period.

Of the victims of murder in Chicago from 2003 to 2011, an average of 77 percent had a prior arrest history, with a high of 79 percent of the 436 murdered in Chicago in 2010 having arrest histories.



***************
*****************
Public Health Pot Shots

this article goes at kellerman extensively and his crap research.....and here is some work on who actually kills people...


These and other studies funded by the CDC focus on the presence or absence of guns, rather than the characteristics of the people who use them. Indeed, the CDC's Rosenberg claims in the journalEducational Horizons that murderers are "ourselves--ordinary citizens, professionals, even health care workers": people who kill only because a gun happens to be available.

Yet if there is one fact that has been incontestably established by homicide studies, it's that murderers are not ordinary gun owners but extreme aberrants whose life histories include drug abuse, serious accidents, felonies, and irrational violence. Unlike "ourselves," roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have significant criminal records, averaging an adult criminal career of six or more years with four major felonies.

Access to juvenile records would almost certainly show that the criminal careers of murderers stretch back into their adolescence. In Murder in America (1994), the criminologists Ronald W. Holmes and Stephen T. Holmes report that murderers generally "have histories of committing personal violence in childhood, against other children, siblings, and small animals." Murderers who don't have criminal records usually have histories of psychiatric treatment or domestic violence that did not lead to arrest.

Contrary to the impression fostered by Rosenberg and other opponents of gun ownership, the term "acquaintance homicide" does not mean killings that stem from ordinary family or neighborhood arguments. Typical acquaintance homicides include: an abusive man eventually killing a woman he has repeatedly assaulted; a drug user killing a dealer (or vice versa) in a robbery attempt; and gang members, drug dealers, and other criminals killing each other for reasons of economic rivalry or personal pique.

According to a 1993 article in the Journal of Trauma, 80 percent of murders in Washington, D.C., are related to the drug trade, while "84% of [Philadelphia murder] victims in 1990 had antemortem drug use or criminal history."

A 1994 article in The New England Journal of Medicinereported that 71 percent of Los Angeles children and adolescents injured in drive-by shootings "were documented members of violent street gangs."

And University of North Carolina-Charlotte criminal justice scholars Richard Lumb and Paul C. Friday report that 71 percent of adult gunshot wound victims in Charlotte have criminal records.



Gangs in Fort Meyers Florida...



NBC2 Investigates: Gangs in Southwest Florida



The City of Fort Myers has been plagued with violence and murder. NBC2 Investigator Dave Elias dug deeper and found that drugs, crime and gangs are the common elements between those killings.

Lee County Sheriff Mike Scott says the three go hand-in-hand and all appear to be playing a big role in the city's crime problem.

"They're punks. They're criminals. And in most cases – cowards," said Sheriff Scott.

He also explained that gang members live by a much different set of rules.

"We're at a more violent time right now than at any time I recall," said Sheriff Scott. "You're talking about an area that - per capita - is on par with Detroit Michigan, in terms of homicides."

There were 25 murders in Fort Myers alone last year. And Sheriff Scott says all of the killings have those three things in common – drugs, crime and gangs.

"In most every case this is criminal killing criminal. This is bad guy on bad guy," he said.



********************************

The Kate and Mauser study.......



http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

I. VIOLENCE: THE DECISIVENESS OF SOCIAL FACTORS
One reason the extent of gun ownership in a society does not spur the murder rate is that murderers are not spread evenly throughout the population. Analysis of perpetrator studies shows that violent criminals—especially murderers—“almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behav‐ ior.”37 So it would not appreciably raise violence if all law‐ abiding, responsible people had firearms because they are not the ones who rape, rob, or murder.38 By the same token, violent crime would not fall if guns were totally banned to civilians. As the respective examples of Luxembourg and Russia suggest,39 individuals who commit violent crimes will either find guns despite severe controls or will find other weapons to use. 40
--------------------------



III. DO ORDINARY PEOPLE MURDER?

The “more guns equal more death” mantra seems plausible only when viewed through the rubric that murders mostly in‐ volve ordinary people who kill because they have access to a firearm when they get angry. If this were true, murder might well increase where people have ready access to firearms, but the available data provides no such correlation. Nations and


areas with more guns per capita do not have higher murder rates than those with fewer guns per capita.53

Nevertheless, critics of gun ownership often argue that a “gun in the closet to protect against burglars will most likely be used to shoot a spouse in a moment of rage . . . . The problem is you and me—law‐abiding folks;”54 that banning handgun posses‐ sion only for those with criminal records will “fail to protect us from the most likely source of handgun murder: ordinary citi‐ zens;”55 that “most gun‐related homicides . . . are the result of impulsive actions taken by individuals who have little or no criminal background or who are known to the victims;”56 that “the majority of firearm homicide[s occur] . . . not as the result of criminal activity, but because of arguments between people who know each other;”57 that each year there are thousands of gun murders “by law‐abiding citizens who might have stayed law‐abiding if they had not possessed firearms.”58

These comments appear to rest on no evidence and actually con‐ tradict facts that have so uniformly been established by homicide studies dating back to the 1890s that they have become “crimino‐ logical axioms.”59 Insofar as studies focus on perpetrators, they show that neither a majority, nor many, nor virtually any murder‐ ers are ordinary “law‐abiding citizens.”60

Rather, almost all mur‐ derers are extremely aberrant individuals with life histories of violence, psychopathology, substance abuse, and other dangerous behaviors. “The vast majority of persons involved in life‐ threatening violence have a long criminal record with many prior contacts with the justice system.”61 “Thus homicide—[whether] of a

stranger or [of] someone known to the offender—‘is usually part of a pattern of violence, engaged in by people who are known . . . as violence prone.’”62

Though only 15% of Americans over the age of 15 have arrest records,63 approximately 90 percent of “adult mur‐ derers have adult records, with an average adult criminal career [involving crimes committed as an adult rather than a child] of six or more years, including four major adult felony arrests.”64

These national statistics dovetail with data from local nineteenth and twentieth century studies. For example: victims as well as offenders [in 1950s and 1960s Philadelphia murders] . . . tended to be people with prior police records, usually for violent crimes such as as‐ sault.”65 “The great majority of both perpetrators and victims of [1970s Harlem] assaults and murders had previous [adult] arrests, probably over 80% or more.”66 Boston police and probation officers in the 1990s agreed that of those juvenile‐perpetrated murders where all the facts were known, virtually all were committed by gang members, though the killing was not necessarily gang‐ directed. 67 One example would be a gang member who stabs his girlfriend to death in a fit of anger.68 Regardless of their arrests for other crimes, 80% of 1997 Atlanta murder arrestees had at least one earlier drug offense with 70% having 3 or more prior drug of‐ fenses.69 A New York Times study of the 1,662 murders committed in that city in the years 2003–2005 found that “[m]ore than 90 percent of the killers had criminal records.”70 Baltimore police figures show that “92 percent of murder suspects had [prior] criminal records in 2006.”71 Several of the more recent homicide studies just reviewed

 

[2aguy]

Of course you don't worry about the actual killers....you hate people.....normal people....that is why everything you do targets normal people and not criminals....

The vast majority of gun deaths are 'normal people' who just had a really shitty day made worse by the easy availability of a gun.

The vast majority of gun deaths are suicides, accidents and domestic violence, all of which wouldn't be possible if a gun hadn't been in the hands of a civilian who had no business having one to start with.

And here is the FBI table 8……it is a great table because it goes back4 years to show the rates of decrease….

And we still don't give a fuck. If you want me to accept the FBI's INCOMPLETE figures for 2014, then you should accept the FBI's position that there are only 47,000 DGU's a year.

The FBI doesn't research defensive gun uses, they just take down the numbers reported....bill clinton's Department of Justice did the actual research into defensive gun use among normal Americans and found that 1.5 million Americans use guns to stop violent crime....

 

[JoeB131]

Wrong, again. The majority of all gun murders are committed by people with criminal records,

Guy, a "Criminal record" can be being busted as a teenager for some weed.

Let's get real here. The vast majority of homicides are people who know their killers.

Since you are so in love with the FBI these days (I guess you forgave Waco and Ruby Ridge, eh?) let's look at THIS FBI table.

Murder - Crime in the United States 2004

For the incidents in which the relationships were known, 76.8 percent of the victims knew their killers and 23.2 percent were slain by strangers. Among the incidents in which the victims knew their killers, 29.8 percent were murdered by family members and 70.2 percent were killed by acquaintances. (Based on Table 2.11.) The 2004 data also revealed that 33.0 percent of female victims were killed by their husbands or boyfriends, and 2.7 percent of the male victims were slain by their wives or girlfriends. (Based on Tables 2.4 and 2.11.)

 

[JoeB131]

Do normal people commit gun murder....no.....again...no.....and one last time...no....

Most murder victims in big cities have criminal record

A review of murder statistics across America shows that in many large cities, up to 90 percent of the victims have criminal records.

Why do you cherry pick data like "big cities", which is not where most murders happen or where most people live.

Again, you are fitting your data to the argument instead of fitting the argument to the data.

A country where ANYONE can get a gun is a country where you are going to have a lot of gun violence.

YOu don't think the rest of the industrialized world doesn't have gangs, abherent behavior and the other shit you go on about? Of course they do. What they don't have is a gun industry pushing out 5 million new units of product every year.

 

[SuperDemocrat]

I once blamed my car when I was late for work despite the fact I overslept. It was the cars fault--not mine.

 

[2aguy]

Do normal people commit gun murder....no.....again...no.....and one last time...no....

Most murder victims in big cities have criminal record

A review of murder statistics across America shows that in many large cities, up to 90 percent of the victims have criminal records.

Why do you cherry pick data like "big cities", which is not where most murders happen or where most people live.

Again, you are fitting your data to the argument instead of fitting the argument to the data.

A country where ANYONE can get a gun is a country where you are going to have a lot of gun violence.

YOu don't think the rest of the industrialized world doesn't have gangs, abherent behavior and the other shit you go on about? Of course they do. What they don't have is a gun industry pushing out 5 million new units of product every year.

The majority of all crime happens in our cities...and the majority of our shooters and victims are criminals.....

The criminals of Europe have a different culture than our criminals do...they have just as much access to guns as our criminals do, they choose not to use them.

Normal people do not use guns to commit murder....abnormal personality types do. You could give every Japanese citizen a gun and their crime rate wouldn't budge an inch....all of their crime rates are low, not just their murder rates....

guns are not the problem.....violent, fatherless boys are....

 

[2aguy]

Wrong, again. The majority of all gun murders are committed by people with criminal records,

Guy, a "Criminal record" can be being busted as a teenager for some weed.

Let's get real here. The vast majority of homicides are people who know their killers.

Since you are so in love with the FBI these days (I guess you forgave Waco and Ruby Ridge, eh?) let's look at THIS FBI table.

Murder - Crime in the United States 2004

For the incidents in which the relationships were known, 76.8 percent of the victims knew their killers and 23.2 percent were slain by strangers. Among the incidents in which the victims knew their killers, 29.8 percent were murdered by family members and 70.2 percent were killed by acquaintances. (Based on Table 2.11.) The 2004 data also revealed that 33.0 percent of female victims were killed by their husbands or boyfriends, and 2.7 percent of the male victims were slain by their wives or girlfriends. (Based on Tables 2.4 and 2.11.)

70.2 percent were killed by acquaintances.

yes...and this is how they hide the fact that acquaintances is the other criminal they knew who they just murdered during a crime......

 

[2aguy]

Do normal people commit gun murder....no.....again...no.....and one last time...no....

Most murder victims in big cities have criminal record

A review of murder statistics across America shows that in many large cities, up to 90 percent of the victims have criminal records.

Why do you cherry pick data like "big cities", which is not where most murders happen or where most people live.

Again, you are fitting your data to the argument instead of fitting the argument to the data.

A country where ANYONE can get a gun is a country where you are going to have a lot of gun violence.

YOu don't think the rest of the industrialized world doesn't have gangs, abherent behavior and the other shit you go on about? Of course they do. What they don't have is a gun industry pushing out 5 million new units of product every year.

This isn't a "big cities" study...this is a gun crime study....

The Kate and Mauser study.......



http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

I. VIOLENCE: THE DECISIVENESS OF SOCIAL FACTORS
One reason the extent of gun ownership in a society does not spur the murder rate is that murderers are not spread evenly throughout the population.

Analysis of perpetrator studies shows that violent criminals—especially murderers—“almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behav‐ ior.”37

So it would not appreciably raise violence if all law‐ abiding, responsible people had firearms because they are not the ones who rape, rob, or murder.38 By the same token, violent crime would not fall if guns were totally banned to civilians. As the respective examples of Luxembourg and Russia suggest,39 individuals who commit violent crimes will either find guns despite severe controls or will find other weapons to use. 40
--------------------------



III. DO ORDINARY PEOPLE MURDER?

The “more guns equal more death” mantra seems plausible only when viewed through the rubric that murders mostly in‐ volve ordinary people who kill because they have access to a firearm when they get angry. If this were true, murder might well increase where people have ready access to firearms, but the available data provides no such correlation. Nations andareas with more guns per capita do not have higher murder rates than those with fewer guns per capita.53

Nevertheless, critics of gun ownership often argue that a “gun in the closet to protect against burglars will most likely be used to shoot a spouse in a moment of rage . . . . The problem is you and me—law‐abiding folks;”54 that banning handgun posses‐ sion only for those with criminal records will “fail to protect us from the most likely source of handgun murder: ordinary citi‐ zens;”55 that “most gun‐related homicides . . . are the result of impulsive actions taken by individuals who have little or no criminal background or who are known to the victims;”56 that “the majority of firearm homicide[s occur] . . . not as the result of criminal activity, but because of arguments between people who know each other;”57 that each year there are thousands of gun murders “by law‐abiding citizens who might have stayed law‐abiding if they had not possessed firearms.”58

These comments appear to rest on no evidence and actually con‐ tradict facts that have so uniformly been established by homicide studies dating back to the 1890s that they have become “crimino‐ logical axioms.”59 Insofar as studies focus on perpetrators, they show that neither a majority, nor many, nor virtually any murder‐ ers are ordinary “law‐abiding citizens.”60

Rather, almost all mur‐ derers are extremely aberrant individuals with life histories of violence, psychopathology, substance abuse, and other dangerous behaviors. “The vast majority of persons involved in life‐ threatening violence have a long criminal record with many prior contacts with the justice system.”61 “Thus homicide—[whether] of a

stranger or [of] someone known to the offender—‘is usually part of a pattern of violence, engaged in by people who are known . . . as violence prone.’”62

Though only 15% of Americans over the age of 15 have arrest records,63 approximately 90 percent of “adult mur‐ derers have adult records, with an average adult criminal career [involving crimes committed as an adult rather than a child] of six or more years, including four major adult felony arrests.”64

These national statistics dovetail with data from local nineteenth and twentieth century studies. For example: victims as well as offenders [in 1950s and 1960s Philadelphia murders] . . . tended to be people with prior police records, usually for violent crimes such as as‐ sault.”65

“The great majority of both perpetrators and victims of [1970s Harlem] assaults and murders had previous [adult] arrests, probably over 80% or more.”66 Boston police and probation officers in the 1990s agreed that of those juvenile‐perpetrated murders where all the facts were known, virtually all were committed by gang members, though the killing was not necessarily gang‐ directed.67

One example would be a gang member who stabs his girlfriend to death in a fit of anger.68 Regardless of their arrests for other crimes, 80% of 1997 Atlanta murder arrestees had at least one earlier drug offense with 70% having 3 or more prior drug of‐ fenses.69 A New York Times study of the 1,662 murders committed in that city in the years 2003–2005 found that “[m]ore than 90 percent of the killers had criminal records.”70 Baltimore police figures show that “92 percent of murder suspects had [prior] criminal records in 2006.”71 Several of the more recent homicide studies just reviewed

 

[2aguy]

Do normal people commit gun murder....no.....again...no.....and one last time...no....

Most murder victims in big cities have criminal record

A review of murder statistics across America shows that in many large cities, up to 90 percent of the victims have criminal records.

Why do you cherry pick data like "big cities", which is not where most murders happen or where most people live.

Again, you are fitting your data to the argument instead of fitting the argument to the data.

A country where ANYONE can get a gun is a country where you are going to have a lot of gun violence.

YOu don't think the rest of the industrialized world doesn't have gangs, abherent behavior and the other shit you go on about? Of course they do. What they don't have is a gun industry pushing out 5 million new units of product every year.

And again....normal people do not commit murders...women murdered by husbands and boyfriends.....better check the criminal history of those husbands and boy friends........they are not normal guys who got mad over a burned dinner....

Public Health Pot Shots

this article goes at kellerman extensively and his crap research.....and here is some work on who actually kills people...


These and other studies funded by the CDC focus on the presence or absence of guns, rather than the characteristics of the people who use them. Indeed, the CDC's Rosenberg claims in the journalEducational Horizons that murderers are "ourselves--ordinary citizens, professionals, even health care workers": people who kill only because a gun happens to be available.

Yet if there is one fact that has been incontestably established by homicide studies, it's that murderers are not ordinary gun owners but extreme aberrants whose life histories include drug abuse, serious accidents, felonies, and irrational violence.

Unlike "ourselves," roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have significant criminal records, averaging an adult criminal career of six or more years with four major felonies.

Access to juvenile records would almost certainly show that the criminal careers of murderers stretch back into their adolescence. In Murder in America (1994), the criminologists Ronald W. Holmes and Stephen T. Holmes report that murderers generally "have histories of committing personal violence in childhood, against other children, siblings, and small animals." Murderers who don't have criminal records usually have histories of psychiatric treatment or domestic violence that did not lead to arrest.

Contrary to the impression fostered by Rosenberg and other opponents of gun ownership, the term "acquaintance homicide" does not mean killings that stem from ordinary family or neighborhood arguments. Typical acquaintance homicides include: an abusive man eventually killing a woman he has repeatedly assaulted; a drug user killing a dealer (or vice versa) in a robbery attempt; and gang members, drug dealers, and other criminals killing each other for reasons of economic rivalry or personal pique.

According to a 1993 article in the Journal of Trauma, 80 percent of murders in Washington, D.C., are related to the drug trade, while "84% of [Philadelphia murder] victims in 1990 had antemortem drug use or criminal history."

A 1994 article in The New England Journal of Medicinereported that 71 percent of Los Angeles children and adolescents injured in drive-by shootings "were documented members of violent street gangs."

And University of North Carolina-Charlotte criminal justice scholars Richard Lumb and Paul C. Friday report that 71 percent of adult gunshot wound victims in Charlotte have criminal records.



So......you better check out the histories of the guys who murder wives and girlfreinds....

Unlike "ourselves," roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have significant criminal records, averaging an adult criminal career of six or more years with four major felonies.

 

[2aguy]

Wrong, again. The majority of all gun murders are committed by people with criminal records,

Guy, a "Criminal record" can be being busted as a teenager for some weed.

Let's get real here. The vast majority of homicides are people who know their killers.

Since you are so in love with the FBI these days (I guess you forgave Waco and Ruby Ridge, eh?) let's look at THIS FBI table.

Murder - Crime in the United States 2004

For the incidents in which the relationships were known, 76.8 percent of the victims knew their killers and 23.2 percent were slain by strangers. Among the incidents in which the victims knew their killers, 29.8 percent were murdered by family members and 70.2 percent were killed by acquaintances. (Based on Table 2.11.) The 2004 data also revealed that 33.0 percent of female victims were killed by their husbands or boyfriends, and 2.7 percent of the male victims were slain by their wives or girlfriends. (Based on Tables 2.4 and 2.11.)

Here is the updated table joe....again...how many husbands who killed wives and girlfreinds were already criminals and sociopathic long before the killing.....

• officers justifiably killed 444 felons, and private citizens justifiably killed 277 people during the commission of crimes. (See Expanded Homicide Data Tables 14 and 15)

 

[2aguy]

Wrong, again. The majority of all gun murders are committed by people with criminal records,

Guy, a "Criminal record" can be being busted as a teenager for some weed.

Let's get real here. The vast majority of homicides are people who know their killers.

Since you are so in love with the FBI these days (I guess you forgave Waco and Ruby Ridge, eh?) let's look at THIS FBI table.

Murder - Crime in the United States 2004

For the incidents in which the relationships were known, 76.8 percent of the victims knew their killers and 23.2 percent were slain by strangers. Among the incidents in which the victims knew their killers, 29.8 percent were murdered by family members and 70.2 percent were killed by acquaintances. (Based on Table 2.11.) The 2004 data also revealed that 33.0 percent of female victims were killed by their husbands or boyfriends, and 2.7 percent of the male victims were slain by their wives or girlfriends. (Based on Tables 2.4 and 2.11.)

To your point about boyfriends and girlfriends and killing....

One example would be a gang member who stabs his girlfriend to death in a fit of anger.68 Regardless of their arrests for other crimes, 80% of 1997 Atlanta murder arrestees had at least one earlier drug offense with 70% having 3 or more prior drug of‐ fenses.69 A New York Times study of the 1,662 murders committed in that city in the years 2003–2005 found that “[m]ore than 90 percent of the killers had criminal records.”70 Baltimore police figures show that “92 percent of murder suspects had [prior] criminal records in 2006.”71 Several of the more recent homicide studies just reviewed

So again....normal people do not murder other people...they have a long history of violent, anti social and criminal behavior...then they get married to some foolish woman who they end up killing....

 

[Rustic]

Wrong, again. The majority of all gun murders are committed by people with criminal records,

Guy, a "Criminal record" can be being busted as a teenager for some weed.

Let's get real here. The vast majority of homicides are people who know their killers.

Since you are so in love with the FBI these days (I guess you forgave Waco and Ruby Ridge, eh?) let's look at THIS FBI table.

Murder - Crime in the United States 2004

For the incidents in which the relationships were known, 76.8 percent of the victims knew their killers and 23.2 percent were slain by strangers. Among the incidents in which the victims knew their killers, 29.8 percent were murdered by family members and 70.2 percent were killed by acquaintances. (Based on Table 2.11.) The 2004 data also revealed that 33.0 percent of female victims were killed by their husbands or boyfriends, and 2.7 percent of the male victims were slain by their wives or girlfriends. (Based on Tables 2.4 and 2.11.)

To your point about boyfriends and girlfriends and killing....

One example would be a gang member who stabs his girlfriend to death in a fit of anger.68 Regardless of their arrests for other crimes, 80% of 1997 Atlanta murder arrestees had at least one earlier drug offense with 70% having 3 or more prior drug of‐ fenses.69 A New York Times study of the 1,662 murders committed in that city in the years 2003–2005 found that “[m]ore than 90 percent of the killers had criminal records.”70 Baltimore police figures show that “92 percent of murder suspects had [prior] criminal records in 2006.”71 Several of the more recent homicide studies just reviewed

So again....normal people do not murder other people...they have a long history of violent, anti social and criminal behavior...then they get married to some foolish woman who they end up killing....

Joe is a slave to his feelings, of course there's no rationality to them.
"Bleeding heart" fits him so well, making him very predictable.

He will always fail to realize guns are not the problem, even though it is obvious as Night and day.

 

[JoeB131]

yes...and this is how they hide the fact that acquaintances is the other criminal they knew who they just murdered during a crime......

Who is this "They" you are talking about? This comes from the FBI's figures. The SAME FBI that you claim only records 8000 gun murders a year when most other sources put the number at 11,000.

So THEY are hiding the fact that they are criminal killing each other, but then they are being totally honest about how many people are actually being killed? Isn't this a touch- ass-backwards?

Of course, real world. Of course, you are more likely to be killed by someone you know than some total stranger you never met before. A total stranger really has no cause to kill you. Someone you know you have things like jealousy, anger, and stupidity.

All of which is made worse if someone has a GUN IN THE HOUSE.

 

[JoeB131]

To your point about boyfriends and girlfriends and killing....

One example would be a gang member who stabs his girlfriend to death in a fit of anger.

Well, then, the thing is, a gang member who SHOOTS his girlfriend in a fit of anger is shooting her because of a domestic issue, not because he's a "gang member". That's the point.

He's not shooting her over some ten year old drug bust. He's shooting her because he caught her with another guy or something dumb like that.

All of which is made much worse IF THERE'S A GUN IN THE HOUSE.

Oddly, you never hear about these sorts of things in Japan. I wonder why.