I never assume I'm right. Well I guess when arguing with you...but thats more assuming you are wrong.
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FLDS - Abortion Hypocrites
- Thread starter Gunny
- Start date
I never assume I'm right. Well I guess when arguing with you...but thats more assuming you are wrong.
Weather or not a zygote uses a womans body as a host is neither here nor there.
Yes, actually it is.
The FACT of a zygote's individual set of DNA makes the whole "my body" line the laughable joke that it is. Throw whatever hissy you need to. A woman's body does not encompass another human being growing inside of her.
Its her body and she can decide whether to be a host or not.
Clear enough for you?
It's Human Life by every medical standard and legal standard stretching back before pre-feminism and our own Constitution. Would you like quotes or are you content with your own stupid opinion?
Provide the cites. I'd specifically like to see the Constitution where it says a fetus is a human life.
that a human zygote isn't human life.
Where have I assumed that exactly?
RetiredGySgt
Diamond Member
Yes, actually it is.
Its her body and she can decide whether to be a host or not.
Clear enough for you?
Provide the cites. I'd specifically like to see the Constitution where it says a fetus is a human life.
Where have I assumed that exactly?
You are not sure of the above? You are open to being wrong? Funny, looks pretty clear as to what YOUR opinion is.
Shogun
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Yes, actually it is.
according to your opinion.. which, i should point out, is already high on my list of things I give a fuck about.
Its her body and she can decide whether to be a host or not.
Clear enough for you?
Again, your opinion carries much water around here. Clear enough for you?
Provide the cites. I'd specifically like to see the Constitution where it says a fetus is a human life.
I can show you medical definitions that will clear it up for you if you like. Also, I can give you legal precedence outside of some 30 year old fuckup from the civil rights era scotus bench. And, I don't have to show you where the Constitution says a zygote is a human life since both common law and historic legal precedence said as much which extends CONSTITIONAL protection to all americans equally. Regardless of your opinion. Shocker, I know.
Where have I assumed that exactly?
In accordance with your opinion that it's entirely a woman's body do do with as she pleases. For real, you really aren't as profoundly deep as you think you are.
according to your opinion.. which, i should point out, is already high on my list of things I give a fuck about.
Its her body and she can decide whether to be a host or not.
Clear enough for you?
Again, your opinion carries much water around here. Clear enough for you?
Provide the cites. I'd specifically like to see the Constitution where it says a fetus is a human life.
I can show you medical definitions that will clear it up for you if you like. Also, I can give you legal precedence outside of some 30 year old fuckup from the civil rights era scotus bench. And, I don't have to show you where the Constitution says a zygote is a human life since both common law and historic legal precedence said as much which extends CONSTITIONAL protection to all americans equally. Regardless of your opinion. Shocker, I know.
Where have I assumed that exactly?
In accordance with your opinion that it's entirely a woman's body do do with as she pleases. For real, you really aren't as profoundly deep as you think you are.
Ravi
Diamond Member
So, Shogun, I take it this means you can't show us.
Shogun
Free: Mudholes Stomped
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Indeed, who the fuck WOULDN;T use Larkin's opinions anyway?
embryo /em·bryo/ (em´bre-o)
1. in animals, those derivatives of the zygote that eventually become the offspring, during their period of most rapid growth, i.e., from the time the long axis appears until all major structures are represented.
2. in humans, the developing organism from fertilization to the end of the eighth week. Cf. fetus.
3. in plants, the element of the seed that develops into a new individual.em´bryonalembryon´ic
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/embryo
em·bry·o (mbr-)
n. pl. em·bry·os
1. An organism in its early stages of development, especially before it has reached a distinctively recognizable form.
2. An organism at any time before full development, birth, or hatching.
3. The fertilized egg of a vertebrate animal following cleavage.
4. In humans, the prefetal product of conception from implantation through the eighth week of development.
Embryo
In humans, the developing individual from the time of implantation to about the end of the second month after conception. From the third month to the point of delivery, the individual is called a fetus.
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/embryo
The embryonic period in humans begins at fertilization (2nd week of gestation) and continues until the end of the 10th week of gestation (8th week of development).
The zygote spends the next few days traveling down the Fallopian tube. Meanwhile it divides several times to form a ball of cells called a morula. Further cellular division is accompanied by the formation of a small cavity between the cells. This stage is called a blastocyst. Up to this point there is no growth in the overall size of the embryo, so each division produces successively smaller cells.
The blastocyst reaches the uterus at roughly the fifth day after fertilization. It is here that lysis of the zona pellucida, a glycoprotein shell, occurs. This is required so that the trophectoderm cells of the blastocyst can come into contact with the luminal epithelial cells of the endometrium. (Contrast this with zona hatching, an event that occurs in vitro by a different mechanism, but with a similar result). It then adheres to the uterine lining and becomes embedded in the endometrial cell layer. This process is also called implantation. In most successful pregnancies, the conceptus implants 8 to 10 days after ovulation (Wilcox et al 1999). The inner cell mass forms the embryo, while the outer cell layers form the membranes and placenta. Together, the embryo and its membranes are referred to as a conceptus, or the "products of conception".
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Prenatal+development
Human embryogenesis is the process of cell division and cellular differentiation of the human embryo during early prenatal development. It spans from the moment of fertilization to the end of the 8th week of gestational age, whereafter it is called a fetus.
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Human+embryogenesis
Enjoy, bitches.
embryo /em·bryo/ (em´bre-o)
1. in animals, those derivatives of the zygote that eventually become the offspring, during their period of most rapid growth, i.e., from the time the long axis appears until all major structures are represented.
2. in humans, the developing organism from fertilization to the end of the eighth week. Cf. fetus.
3. in plants, the element of the seed that develops into a new individual.em´bryonalembryon´ic
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/embryo
em·bry·o (mbr-)
n. pl. em·bry·os
1. An organism in its early stages of development, especially before it has reached a distinctively recognizable form.
2. An organism at any time before full development, birth, or hatching.
3. The fertilized egg of a vertebrate animal following cleavage.
4. In humans, the prefetal product of conception from implantation through the eighth week of development.
Embryo
In humans, the developing individual from the time of implantation to about the end of the second month after conception. From the third month to the point of delivery, the individual is called a fetus.
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/embryo
The embryonic period in humans begins at fertilization (2nd week of gestation) and continues until the end of the 10th week of gestation (8th week of development).
The zygote spends the next few days traveling down the Fallopian tube. Meanwhile it divides several times to form a ball of cells called a morula. Further cellular division is accompanied by the formation of a small cavity between the cells. This stage is called a blastocyst. Up to this point there is no growth in the overall size of the embryo, so each division produces successively smaller cells.
The blastocyst reaches the uterus at roughly the fifth day after fertilization. It is here that lysis of the zona pellucida, a glycoprotein shell, occurs. This is required so that the trophectoderm cells of the blastocyst can come into contact with the luminal epithelial cells of the endometrium. (Contrast this with zona hatching, an event that occurs in vitro by a different mechanism, but with a similar result). It then adheres to the uterine lining and becomes embedded in the endometrial cell layer. This process is also called implantation. In most successful pregnancies, the conceptus implants 8 to 10 days after ovulation (Wilcox et al 1999). The inner cell mass forms the embryo, while the outer cell layers form the membranes and placenta. Together, the embryo and its membranes are referred to as a conceptus, or the "products of conception".
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Prenatal+development
Human embryogenesis is the process of cell division and cellular differentiation of the human embryo during early prenatal development. It spans from the moment of fertilization to the end of the 8th week of gestational age, whereafter it is called a fetus.
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Human+embryogenesis
Enjoy, bitches.
Shogun
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So, Shogun, I take it this means you can't show us.
scroll up, snizatch.
Ravi
Diamond Member
This is what I'm waiting for you to prove:
It's Human Life by every medical standard and legal standard stretching back before pre-feminism and our own Constitution.
It's Human Life by every medical standard and legal standard stretching back before pre-feminism and our own Constitution.
Shogun
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Did you not read the medical definitons above? Did you miss the QUOTE from a founding father regarding such? Would you like be to quote Susan B aNthony or do you think yo can manage? You ave a bad habit of assuming that someone else is interested in writing your own notes for you. Sexist as it may be, Im going to go ahead and assume you are equally capable of scrolling up.
The following references illustrate the fact that a new human embryo, the starting point for a human life, comes into existence with the formation of the one-celled zygote:
http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html
The following references illustrate the fact that a new human embryo, the starting point for a human life, comes into existence with the formation of the one-celled zygote:
http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html
Angel Heart
Conservative Hippie
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It's a human, at it's earliest stages.
It's a human, at it's earliest stages.
Ravi
Diamond Member
Did you not read the medical definitons above? Did you miss the QUOTE from a founding father regarding such? Would you like be to quote Susan B aNthony or do you think yo can manage? You ave a bad habit of assuming that someone else is interested in writing your own notes for you. Sexist as it may be, Im going to go ahead and assume you are equally capable of scrolling up.
The following references illustrate the fact that a new human embryo, the starting point for a human life, comes into existence with the formation of the one-celled zygote:
http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html
You said the definition of Human Life was defined by the medical community and the constitution. Nothing you've posted defines human life in the definition you are implying.
Yes, actually it is.
according to your opinion.. which, i should point out, is already high on my list of things I give a fuck about.
Its her body and she can decide whether to be a host or not.
Clear enough for you?
Again, your opinion carries much water around here. Clear enough for you?
Is this really the best you can do? Yes, when it comes to Abortion its pretty much all about opinion. Thats why different people believe different things. If you are stupid enough to believe your OPINION is fact, then there is no use in discussing anything with you.
I can show you medical definitions that will clear it up for you if you like.
Where it says its a human being? Go for it.
Also, I can give you legal precedence outside of some 30 year old fuckup from the civil rights era scotus bench.
Oh? Do so please. Please make sure the precedence over-rules the "30 year old fuckup". By the way, your opinion means shit as well. Roe v. Wade wins over you.
And, I don't have to show you where the Constitution says a zygote is a human life since both common law and historic legal precedence said as much which extends CONSTITIONAL protection to all americans equally.
This is circular, dumbass.
In accordance with your opinion that it's entirely a woman's body do do with as she pleases. For real, you really aren't as profoundly deep as you think you are.
LMAO. Good job there, dumbass.
If assuming that a woman's body is hers to do with what she pleases means assuming that a zygote isn't a human, you must also be assuming that a zygote is part of a womans body.
Did you not read the medical definitons above? Did you miss the QUOTE from a founding father regarding such? Would you like be to quote Susan B aNthony or do you think yo can manage? You ave a bad habit of assuming that someone else is interested in writing your own notes for you. Sexist as it may be, Im going to go ahead and assume you are equally capable of scrolling up.
The following references illustrate the fact that a new human embryo, the starting point for a human life, comes into existence with the formation of the one-celled zygote:
http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html
Like the medical dictionary where it referred to embryos as an ORGANISM, and not a human?
Yeah...some evidence you got there Shogun
Anguille
Bane of the Urbane
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Now given all that you have said, doesn't the child have any responsibility to the parents? I mean, if it weren't for them they would not BE
You have an interesting point there, speedy. Children don't ask to be born but in a sense they do have an obligation to repay whoever bore them and raised them. There isn't much talk about the inverse of what responsibilities a parent has to children yet isn't it just as important?
is it ethical for the Doctor in delivery not to try to save the mother's life in a dire situation?
The answer is no.
The doctor's obligation is to the BORN first...the mother's life is to be saved over the baby to be's life, if it came down to an option...where the doctor had only one choice.
This is what is ethical and moral in our society....
Even with abortion, in the latest stages of pregnancy....like with partial birth abortion....if the mother's life is at stake an abortion is permitted if it saves her life.
Why is that the child to be in this circumstance not the human being that is saved, over the mother's life?
BECAUSE the born human being has more value and worth than the unborn, right?
Care
The answer is no.
The doctor's obligation is to the BORN first...the mother's life is to be saved over the baby to be's life, if it came down to an option...where the doctor had only one choice.
This is what is ethical and moral in our society....
Even with abortion, in the latest stages of pregnancy....like with partial birth abortion....if the mother's life is at stake an abortion is permitted if it saves her life.
Why is that the child to be in this circumstance not the human being that is saved, over the mother's life?
BECAUSE the born human being has more value and worth than the unborn, right?
Care
Shogun
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You said the definition of Human Life was defined by the medical community and the constitution. Nothing you've posted defines human life in the definition you are implying.
Are you fucking dense? EVERYTHING i've posted conveys that a HUMAN zygote is a HUMAN. Is a ZYGOTE not alive? Is it NOT listed as LIVING? Is it NOT listed as being a HUMAN? Is it NOT a medical source enough for your vagina?
And, Constitutionally, I can show you how British common law dealt with abortion procedures. Indeed, this is why I posted evidence from not only a founding father but have been teasing you with a particular Susan B Anthony quote.
Now, did you have anything to post as evidence or should we just take your word that a human zygote is not a human being? Further, does not qualify for constitutional rights... unless miscarried from the actions of a drunk driver.
AllieBaba
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is it ethical for the Doctor in delivery not to try to save the mother's life in a dire situation?
The answer is no.
The doctor's obligation is to the BORN first...the mother's life is to be saved over the baby to be's life, if it came down to an option...where the doctor had only one choice.
This is what is ethical and moral in our society....
Even with abortion, in the latest stages of pregnancy....like with partial birth abortion....if the mother's life is at stake an abortion is permitted if it saves her life.
Why is that the child to be in this circumstance not the human being that is saved, over the mother's life?
BECAUSE the born human being has more value and worth than the unborn, right?
Care
Also the born human being usually has a better chance of surviving.
Cases where the baby MUST be taken to save the life of the mother are really few and far between.
Ravi
Diamond Member
Are you fucking dense? EVERYTHING i've posted conveys that a HUMAN zygote is a HUMAN. Is a ZYGOTE not alive? Is it NOT listed as LIVING? Is it NOT listed as being a HUMAN? Is it NOT a medical source enough for your vagina?
And, Constitutionally, I can show you how British common law dealt with abortion procedures. Indeed, this is why I posted evidence from not only a founding father but have been teasing you with a particular Susan B Anthony quote.
Now, did you have anything to post as evidence or should we just take your word that a human zygote is not a human being? Further, does not qualify for constitutional rights... unless miscarried from the actions of a drunk driver.
I looked at your quotes. None of them made the claim that a fetus was a living human.
Would you like to point out which one you believe did?
Also the born human being usually has a better chance of surviving.
Cases where the baby MUST be taken to save the life of the mother are really few and far between.
good point on the mother having a better chance to survive, but I would not necessarily say that this is the case in today's world of medicine and NICU...newborn intensive care units have kept a 21 week gestation baby alive after being prematurely delievered.....after 8 months in newborn intensive care, the baby went home with her mom....a true miracle or the testament to how far we have come with the medical practices of today.
As you say, the cases are few and far between on the woman dying or possibly dying in childbirth where if the child is taken, she would live....but this is not the point.....
the point is that this is the case, if it were to happen...the living, the born person is to be saved first, if a choice has to be made between the two...and society finds this perfectly acceptable because it has given greater value to the person that is born already....
this does not negate that an embryo or a fetus is a human being...it is a human being...all scientific tests will identify it as human....it is a human, but it does not have the same value or worth as a living and breathing human being, one that is born....achieves personhood in our society, and at that point has all the human rights of everyone else on this earth.
This is just the way it is...if a fetus is given personhood status before it is born, then things may change in our society regarding abortion, but I can't see how personhood could be given to the unborn....especially prequickening....or the embryo stage....
Shogun
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Is this really the best you can do? Yes, when it comes to Abortion its pretty much all about opinion. Thats why different people believe different things. If you are stupid enough to believe your OPINION is fact, then there is no use in discussing anything with you.
It's not so much "the best I can do", rather, "it's the most that I think you are worth". Again, clear enough?
and I've never claimed my opinion to be fact.. I'll let the MEDICAL community tell you all about facts.
DOH!
Where it says its a human being? Go for it.
already posted... Feel free to scroll up.
or don't. Your input is about as significant as early CD jewel boxes were to saving the planet.
Oh? Do so please. Please make sure the precedence over-rules the "30 year old fuckup". By the way, your opinion means shit as well. Roe v. Wade wins over you.
RvW wins for the moment. a 30 year period out of just over 200. WOW. you really slammed THAT point home!
Dispelling the Myths of Abortion History
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m6875/is_1_23/ai_n25009855
Aborting history.(abortion activism)
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-17443648.html
An assault did make : and then and there under Color & pretext of administrating to her as a Physician give, administered unto & persuade her to take (She then being pregnant) Sundry Dangerous & Destructive Medicines, and did also further as well with his own hand, or with a certain Instrument of Iron by him, then ?? of the value of six pence, then & there with force and arms violently Lacerate and grievously wound the body of Said Sarah Grosvenor whereby the Child whereof she was then pregnant was caused to Perish and immanently to Depart from her, upon which said manual force & violence the said Sarah Languished for about Six Days & was then of said Child Delivered of ?? and from the time? by reason of said Noxious and Destructive operation of Said Medicines together with the Hurts & Wounds by the manual operation occasioned for about a space of three weeks further languished and then thereof Dyed. Whereupon the Jurors do say that the said John Hallowell did then & there Willfully, Maliciously and by Such his Wicked and Diabolical practice, Feloniously Murder the Said Sarah Grosvenor Contrary to the Peace of our Sovereign Lord ?? ?? King and the Laws of this Colony above recited.
http://www.mssu.edu/socsci/cebula/voices/abortion.htm
This is circular, dumbass.
It's circular to consider Medical definitions of Zygotes and consider what the Constitution has to say about equal application?
oh, well, silly me for not referring to your opinion first!
LMAO. Good job there, dumbass.
If assuming that a woman's body is hers to do with what she pleases means assuming that a zygote isn't a human, you must also be assuming that a zygote is part of a womans body.
Which of us is insisting that a zygote ISNT a human?
oh yea.. that would be you.
And, talk about fucked up logic, dude. How does this even make sense outside of your white noise brain? IM the one telling you that medicine, and law, validate the humanity of a zygote. Im the one reminding you that GENETICS make the distinction between which is whose body. go back to constructing a strawman, dude. It's probably the only thing you have a talent for in this forum.
Also, could you possible write another sentence with the word Assuming in it three times one more time? I want to really FEEL the brilliance of your next post.
It's not so much "the best I can do", rather, "it's the most that I think you are worth". Again, clear enough?
and I've never claimed my opinion to be fact.. I'll let the MEDICAL community tell you all about facts.
DOH!
Where it says its a human being? Go for it.
already posted... Feel free to scroll up.
or don't. Your input is about as significant as early CD jewel boxes were to saving the planet.
Oh? Do so please. Please make sure the precedence over-rules the "30 year old fuckup". By the way, your opinion means shit as well. Roe v. Wade wins over you.
RvW wins for the moment. a 30 year period out of just over 200. WOW. you really slammed THAT point home!
Dispelling the Myths of Abortion History
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m6875/is_1_23/ai_n25009855
Aborting history.(abortion activism)
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-17443648.html
An assault did make : and then and there under Color & pretext of administrating to her as a Physician give, administered unto & persuade her to take (She then being pregnant) Sundry Dangerous & Destructive Medicines, and did also further as well with his own hand, or with a certain Instrument of Iron by him, then ?? of the value of six pence, then & there with force and arms violently Lacerate and grievously wound the body of Said Sarah Grosvenor whereby the Child whereof she was then pregnant was caused to Perish and immanently to Depart from her, upon which said manual force & violence the said Sarah Languished for about Six Days & was then of said Child Delivered of ?? and from the time? by reason of said Noxious and Destructive operation of Said Medicines together with the Hurts & Wounds by the manual operation occasioned for about a space of three weeks further languished and then thereof Dyed. Whereupon the Jurors do say that the said John Hallowell did then & there Willfully, Maliciously and by Such his Wicked and Diabolical practice, Feloniously Murder the Said Sarah Grosvenor Contrary to the Peace of our Sovereign Lord ?? ?? King and the Laws of this Colony above recited.
http://www.mssu.edu/socsci/cebula/voices/abortion.htm
This is circular, dumbass.
It's circular to consider Medical definitions of Zygotes and consider what the Constitution has to say about equal application?
oh, well, silly me for not referring to your opinion first!
LMAO. Good job there, dumbass.
If assuming that a woman's body is hers to do with what she pleases means assuming that a zygote isn't a human, you must also be assuming that a zygote is part of a womans body.
Which of us is insisting that a zygote ISNT a human?
oh yea.. that would be you.
And, talk about fucked up logic, dude. How does this even make sense outside of your white noise brain? IM the one telling you that medicine, and law, validate the humanity of a zygote. Im the one reminding you that GENETICS make the distinction between which is whose body. go back to constructing a strawman, dude. It's probably the only thing you have a talent for in this forum.
Also, could you possible write another sentence with the word Assuming in it three times one more time? I want to really FEEL the brilliance of your next post.
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