Grandfather of Oklahoma teen killed by homeowner in burglary says AR15 made for ‘unfair’ fight

[Ray From Cleveland]

Oh I know how deadly a 12 gauge is. Probably been using one since long before you were born.

a couple of points:

1. I will never question any law abiding citizen as to how to defend their own home.

2. With all the discussion about banning AR style rifles, you seem to forget that, especially in school shootings, the AR would fall at least to 3rd place as to effective killing machines in these environments. 1.) shotgun 2.) semi auto pistals then MAYBE 3.) AR style rifles.

So, if you ban the AR, the killers will actually seek out the more effective (in close quarters), shotgun or handgun(s).

You don't solve the problem, you create a worse problem.

We aren't talking about mass shootings here. We are talking about home defense. And unless you are older than dirt, I doubt you have handled shotguns more than I have. And unless you retired from the Military, I doubt you have handled weapons more than I have. I retired from the Military 30 years ago so that should give you an idea of my age. So let's not get into a "Whose Pecker is Longer" discussion here. Mine is long enough to get the job done.

Safe Home Defense is still safer with the Remington Model 870 as it's the one most suggested, and owned by home owners today and has been for many years. It doesn't normally shoot through more than one wall. But it stops the bad guy in one shot. And it doesn't have to have a dead center to do it. You can miss by a foot and still get the job done. I am not saying that he was wrong using the AR in his home defense. The Best Gun is the one you have. But you have a prior choice of what you can use and there are safer and sometimes more lethal guns out there and the Model 870 just happens to be the best tool and the safest.

The entire discussion is not about what is best for home defense, but about home defense. I am one of those that will never question another about how they choose to defend their home. Don't want to defend your home? I don't care. Want to? Be my guest. You say the shotgun would be better? Better then what? What he had seemed to do the job just fine. Bottom line, it worked.

It worked only because he was in the basement. Poor choice of home defense weapon. And very dangerous for the community. I can see where this is another case of "You can't tell ME what to do" even when it's a danger to the community. The ONLY time the AR is the best choice is when it's the only choice. Otherwise, it's the worst choice unless the other choice is the semi auto 338 Winchester Magnum.

You remind me of a Christmas turkey.

If you buy an AR for home defense then maybe you shouldn't be allowed to own one. What are you defending against? Are you afraid that there is going to be a company of armed and dangerous Liberals attacking your home? Change the friggin channel and watch a situation comedy instead of what you keep watching.

You with this preaching on what kind of guns people should be allowed to own.

Every armed person is responsible for his or her actions. If I shoot at an intruder in my home, and accidentally kill my neighbors daughter sitting in the living room, I'm responsible for that. It's the way it should be.

Every armed citizen in this country carries the same responsibility, and that includes our police. If you accidentally kill an innocent with your gun on the street or in your home, you will be charged with manslaughter.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

If you buy an AR for home defense then maybe you shouldn't be allowed to own one. What are you defending against? Are you afraid that there is going to be a company of armed and dangerous Liberals attacking your home? Change the friggin channel and watch a situation comedy instead of what you keep watching.

You shouldn't get to decide what another person feels comfortable using for home defense. You seem more interested in protecting the person breaking into the home. You are the Oklahoma Grandpa, aren't you.

 

[westwall]

Better to wait until you are dead, right?

I would rather face an AR than a 12 gauge. You might miss with an AR and you might not kill me if you hit. I won't be so lucky with the 12 gauge. I can see you know nothing about the damage a 12 gauge does without penetrating outside of the room too far. It doesn't just put a hole in your arm. It takes your arm off. This is why the Remington Model 870 is the #1 Home Defense Weapon in the US.

But I would wait until YOU are dead though.

Oh I know how deadly a 12 gauge is. Probably been using one since long before you were born.

a couple of points:

1. I will never question any law abiding citizen as to how to defend their own home.

2. With all the discussion about banning AR style rifles, you seem to forget that, especially in school shootings, the AR would fall at least to 3rd place as to effective killing machines in these environments. 1.) shotgun 2.) semi auto pistals then MAYBE 3.) AR style rifles.

So, if you ban the AR, the killers will actually seek out the more effective (in close quarters), shotgun or handgun(s).

You don't solve the problem, you create a worse problem.

We aren't talking about mass shootings here. We are talking about home defense. And unless you are older than dirt, I doubt you have handled shotguns more than I have. And unless you retired from the Military, I doubt you have handled weapons more than I have. I retired from the Military 30 years ago so that should give you an idea of my age. So let's not get into a "Whose Pecker is Longer" discussion here. Mine is long enough to get the job done.

Safe Home Defense is still safer with the Remington Model 870 as it's the one most suggested, and owned by home owners today and has been for many years. It doesn't normally shoot through more than one wall. But it stops the bad guy in one shot. And it doesn't have to have a dead center to do it. You can miss by a foot and still get the job done. I am not saying that he was wrong using the AR in his home defense. The Best Gun is the one you have. But you have a prior choice of what you can use and there are safer and sometimes more lethal guns out there and the Model 870 just happens to be the best tool and the safest.

The entire discussion is not about what is best for home defense, but about home defense. I am one of those that will never question another about how they choose to defend their home. Don't want to defend your home? I don't care. Want to? Be my guest. You say the shotgun would be better? Better then what? What he had seemed to do the job just fine. Bottom line, it worked.

It worked only because he was in the basement. Poor choice of home defense weapon. And very dangerous for the community. I can see where this is another case of "You can't tell ME what to do" even when it's a danger to the community. The ONLY time the AR is the best choice is when it's the only choice. Otherwise, it's the worst choice unless the other choice is the semi auto 338 Winchester Magnum.

The AR-15 is an excellent choice for home defense. It is ergonomically designed so is intuitive to use. It is easy to train even dumb people to use them. There is little recoil so follow up shots are far more accurate than if you were shooting a shotgun. The cartridge is relatively weak. There is little to no over penetration. The projectile will break up within the walls of the home so you don't need to worry about hitting a loved one in the room next door which frequently happens with buckshot fired from a shotgun.

It has a magazine, so that if you miss, you get to shoot again! Quickly. In a gun fight time is life. The firing signature is relatively low, so when the rifle is fired within the close confines of a room the shooter won't be deafened by the shot. There is little to no flash when it is fired. Absolutely critical in a low light situation where a shotgun blast will blind the shooter.

So yes tactically the AR has loads of advantages over a shotgun so it is one of the BEST choices for home defense.

 

[westwall]

Hmmmm, no. Criminals vote Democrat. It's a documented fact.

Around here, most criminal vote republican.

Sure, our prisons are just loaded with Republicans.

Sure are. Around here, the majority of the people vote republican. That means that the majority of the criminals will be republican as well. Criminals really aren't one party of the other in reality. They are just criminals. To say that they are one party or the other just makes excuses why they are Criminals.

Most criminals come from single-parent homes in lower income areas. How do lower income areas vote again?

Makin crap up again are we ?

You certainly do. If straw purchases were as big a problem as claimed, why do the authorities not arrest and prosecute the offenders?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Sure, our prisons are just loaded with Republicans.

Sure are. Around here, the majority of the people vote republican. That means that the majority of the criminals will be republican as well. Criminals really aren't one party of the other in reality. They are just criminals. To say that they are one party or the other just makes excuses why they are Criminals.

Most criminals come from single-parent homes in lower income areas. How do lower income areas vote again?

Makin crap up again are we ?

What "crap" are you referring to? Do you think most criminals come from well-to-do or self-supporting two parent families that go to church every Sunday?

Criminals come from all walks of life. If you studied things a bit and stopped just watching Rush and Hannity you might see this. Criminals have a couple of cards out of place and it doesn't really matter their upbringing.

Blacks make up 37% of our prison population even though they are only 13% of our population. Most all blacks are Democrat, and I guarantee you all of them in prison are.

Out of the 62% white prison population, you can't tell me you think more than half are conservative or Republican. But even if they were, you add 30% of white Republicans in prison to the 37% of blacks in prison, you have a near 70% of the prison population being Democrat.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Around here, most criminal vote republican.

Sure, our prisons are just loaded with Republicans.

Sure are. Around here, the majority of the people vote republican. That means that the majority of the criminals will be republican as well. Criminals really aren't one party of the other in reality. They are just criminals. To say that they are one party or the other just makes excuses why they are Criminals.

Most criminals come from single-parent homes in lower income areas. How do lower income areas vote again?

Makin crap up again are we ?

You certainly do. If straw purchases were as big a problem as claimed, why do the authorities not arrest and prosecute the offenders?

More than that, if I were unable to legally purchase a gun, and asked my sister to buy one for me, then kill somebody with that gun which would be traced back to her, she would be charged with a crime for selling a gun to a felon. How many times has that happened in gun murders in this country?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

More than that, if I were unable to legally purchase a gun, and asked my sister to buy one for me, then kill somebody with that gun which would be traced back to her, she would be charged with a crime for selling a gun to a felon. How many times has that happened in gun murders in this country?

Yep.

The straw purchase and "gun show" loophole arguments are complete bullshit.

 

[Timmy]

Notice that there are still no gun grabbers posting in this thread.

Because there’s so such thing .

What’s the point of this thread anyway? You mad the kids didn’t have ARs themselves? Because you want them to be made available to teens .

You have evidence that a criminal teen can't get a gun?

Please, give us all that info

it happens in Chicago daily.

Right . Because of gun nut states . They make straw purchases so easy . Where do you think all those guns on the streets of Chicago come from ?

Chicago? The same Chicago with one of the strictest gun laws in the country?

Where do all those guns come from?

Boston ,NYC, Seattle , very liberal cities wh tougher gun laws . Lot less gun crime that red state gun nut cities .

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Where do all those guns come from?

Boston ,NYC, Seattle , very liberal cities wh tougher gun laws . Lot less gun crime that red state gun nut cities

You assume that the guns obtained by these worthless thugs are manufactured and sold legally.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Around here, most criminal vote republican.

Sure, our prisons are just loaded with Republicans.

Sure are. Around here, the majority of the people vote republican. That means that the majority of the criminals will be republican as well. Criminals really aren't one party of the other in reality. They are just criminals. To say that they are one party or the other just makes excuses why they are Criminals.

Most criminals come from single-parent homes in lower income areas. How do lower income areas vote again?

Makin crap up again are we ?

You certainly do. If straw purchases were as big a problem as claimed, why do the authorities not arrest and prosecute the offenders?

They do as long as it's within the State Laws to enforce the strawman laws. But, you are right, it's so volitile that it's not very frequent. But those that do it are prosecuted. Usually, it's bagged before any mass shooting happens so it doesn't make it past the local news if even that.

 

[westwall]

Sure, our prisons are just loaded with Republicans.

Sure are. Around here, the majority of the people vote republican. That means that the majority of the criminals will be republican as well. Criminals really aren't one party of the other in reality. They are just criminals. To say that they are one party or the other just makes excuses why they are Criminals.

Most criminals come from single-parent homes in lower income areas. How do lower income areas vote again?

Makin crap up again are we ?

You certainly do. If straw purchases were as big a problem as claimed, why do the authorities not arrest and prosecute the offenders?

They do as long as it's within the State Laws to enforce the strawman laws. But, you are right, it's so volitile that it's not very frequent. But those that do it are prosecuted. Usually, it's bagged before any mass shooting happens so it doesn't make it past the local news if even that.

Straw purchases violate FEDERAL laws. In other words, no matter which State, or Territory within the USA those laws apply. Period.

 

[westwall]

Sure, our prisons are just loaded with Republicans.

Sure are. Around here, the majority of the people vote republican. That means that the majority of the criminals will be republican as well. Criminals really aren't one party of the other in reality. They are just criminals. To say that they are one party or the other just makes excuses why they are Criminals.

Most criminals come from single-parent homes in lower income areas. How do lower income areas vote again?

Makin crap up again are we ?

You certainly do. If straw purchases were as big a problem as claimed, why do the authorities not arrest and prosecute the offenders?

More than that, if I were unable to legally purchase a gun, and asked my sister to buy one for me, then kill somebody with that gun which would be traced back to her, she would be charged with a crime for selling a gun to a felon. How many times has that happened in gun murders in this country?

Exactly. The authorities bend over backwards NOT to prosecute those people.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Because there’s so such thing .

What’s the point of this thread anyway? You mad the kids didn’t have ARs themselves? Because you want them to be made available to teens .

You have evidence that a criminal teen can't get a gun?

Please, give us all that info

it happens in Chicago daily.

Right . Because of gun nut states . They make straw purchases so easy . Where do you think all those guns on the streets of Chicago come from ?

Chicago? The same Chicago with one of the strictest gun laws in the country?

Where do all those guns come from?

Boston ,NYC, Seattle , very liberal cities wh tougher gun laws . Lot less gun crime that red state gun nut cities .

That has to do more with demographics than gun laws. For instance Seattle only has less than 8% blacks. Boston? About 23%. Same with New York city.

Most guns used in crime are stolen guns. Criminals use guns that can't be possibly traced back to them.

According to data from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), during the four-year period from 2012 to 2015, nearly half a billion dollars worth of guns were stolen from individuals nationwide, amounting to an estimated 1.2 million guns.3 Twenty-two thousand guns were stolen from gun stores during this same period.4 A gun is stolen in the U.S. every two minutes.5

Stolen Guns in America - Center for American Progress

 

[Markle]

Right . Because of gun nut states . They make straw purchases so easy . Where do you think all those guns on the streets of Chicago come from ?

Knowing this, Chicago stubbornly refuses to allow their law-abiding citizens to defend themselves.

Why is that the case?

 

[Timmy]

You have evidence that a criminal teen can't get a gun?

Please, give us all that info

it happens in Chicago daily.

Right . Because of gun nut states . They make straw purchases so easy . Where do you think all those guns on the streets of Chicago come from ?

Chicago? The same Chicago with one of the strictest gun laws in the country?

Where do all those guns come from?

Boston ,NYC, Seattle , very liberal cities wh tougher gun laws . Lot less gun crime that red state gun nut cities .

That has to do more with demographics than gun laws. For instance Seattle only has less than 8% blacks. Boston? About 23%. Same with New York city.

Most guns used in crime are stolen guns. Criminals use guns that can't be possibly traced back to them.

According to data from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), during the four-year period from 2012 to 2015, nearly half a billion dollars worth of guns were stolen from individuals nationwide, amounting to an estimated 1.2 million guns.3 Twenty-two thousand guns were stolen from gun stores during this same period.4 A gun is stolen in the U.S. every two minutes.5

Stolen Guns in America - Center for American Progress

Oh so now it’s black people!

And how are all these guns “stolen” when the point of them is to defend against thieves !?

Pssst. They ain’t stolen, they are sold on the down .

Glad u agree that we should have guns registered to prevent this .

 

[Markle]

Oh so now it’s black people!

And how are all these guns “stolen” when the point of them is to defend against thieves !?

Pssst. They ain’t stolen, they are sold on the down .

Glad u agree that we should have guns registered to prevent this .

So what race has the highest violent crime rate?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

it happens in Chicago daily.

Right . Because of gun nut states . They make straw purchases so easy . Where do you think all those guns on the streets of Chicago come from ?

Chicago? The same Chicago with one of the strictest gun laws in the country?

Where do all those guns come from?

Boston ,NYC, Seattle , very liberal cities wh tougher gun laws . Lot less gun crime that red state gun nut cities .

That has to do more with demographics than gun laws. For instance Seattle only has less than 8% blacks. Boston? About 23%. Same with New York city.

Most guns used in crime are stolen guns. Criminals use guns that can't be possibly traced back to them.

According to data from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), during the four-year period from 2012 to 2015, nearly half a billion dollars worth of guns were stolen from individuals nationwide, amounting to an estimated 1.2 million guns.3 Twenty-two thousand guns were stolen from gun stores during this same period.4 A gun is stolen in the U.S. every two minutes.5

Stolen Guns in America - Center for American Progress

Oh so now it’s black people!

And how are all these guns “stolen” when the point of them is to defend against thieves !?

Pssst. They ain’t stolen, they are sold on the down .

Glad u agree that we should have guns registered to prevent this .

Where did I say anything about registering guns? You leftists make up crap we never said all the time.

Yes, statistics show that black people are the most violent people who commit the most violent crime per capita in our country. Therefore, the only reasonable thing to do is rely on demographics instead of gun laws. When I brought up Chicago, you brought up liberal cities that have less gun crimes. If there are liberal cities and states that have high crime with tough gun laws, and liberal cities and states that have less crime with taught gun laws, then it's apparent it's not the laws at all, especially when demographics are proportional with violent and gun crimes.

 

[asaratis]

Notice that there are still no gun grabbers posting in this thread.

Because there’s so such thing .

What’s the point of this thread anyway? You mad the kids didn’t have ARs themselves? Because you want them to be made available to teens .

You have evidence that a criminal teen can't get a gun?

Please, give us all that info

it happens in Chicago daily.

Right . Because of gun nut states . They make straw purchases so easy . Where do you think all those guns on the streets of Chicago come from ?

you know? you should let the police in Chicago know.

It is futile to attempt adult conversation with a goddamned nitwit.

 

[asaratis]

Oh I know how deadly a 12 gauge is. Probably been using one since long before you were born.

a couple of points:

1. I will never question any law abiding citizen as to how to defend their own home.

2. With all the discussion about banning AR style rifles, you seem to forget that, especially in school shootings, the AR would fall at least to 3rd place as to effective killing machines in these environments. 1.) shotgun 2.) semi auto pistals then MAYBE 3.) AR style rifles.

So, if you ban the AR, the killers will actually seek out the more effective (in close quarters), shotgun or handgun(s).

You don't solve the problem, you create a worse problem.

We aren't talking about mass shootings here. We are talking about home defense. And unless you are older than dirt, I doubt you have handled shotguns more than I have. And unless you retired from the Military, I doubt you have handled weapons more than I have. I retired from the Military 30 years ago so that should give you an idea of my age. So let's not get into a "Whose Pecker is Longer" discussion here. Mine is long enough to get the job done.

Safe Home Defense is still safer with the Remington Model 870 as it's the one most suggested, and owned by home owners today and has been for many years. It doesn't normally shoot through more than one wall. But it stops the bad guy in one shot. And it doesn't have to have a dead center to do it. You can miss by a foot and still get the job done. I am not saying that he was wrong using the AR in his home defense. The Best Gun is the one you have. But you have a prior choice of what you can use and there are safer and sometimes more lethal guns out there and the Model 870 just happens to be the best tool and the safest.

The entire discussion is not about what is best for home defense, but about home defense. I am one of those that will never question another about how they choose to defend their home. Don't want to defend your home? I don't care. Want to? Be my guest. You say the shotgun would be better? Better then what? What he had seemed to do the job just fine. Bottom line, it worked.

It worked only because he was in the basement. Poor choice of home defense weapon. And very dangerous for the community. I can see where this is another case of "You can't tell ME what to do" even when it's a danger to the community. The ONLY time the AR is the best choice is when it's the only choice. Otherwise, it's the worst choice unless the other choice is the semi auto 338 Winchester Magnum.

You remind me of a Christmas turkey.

If you buy an AR for home defense then maybe you shouldn't be allowed to own one. What are you defending against? Are you afraid that there is going to be a company of armed and dangerous Liberals attacking your home? Change the friggin channel and watch a situation comedy instead of what you keep watching.

I don't own an AR-15. If I wanted one for any reason whatsoever, I would buy one.

AR-15 is no match for today's military grade rifles. Neither are the handguns I own and carry.

Like I said....Christmas turkey....full of stuffing.

Go piss up a rope!

 

[asaratis]

If you buy an AR for home defense then maybe you shouldn't be allowed to own one. What are you defending against? Are you afraid that there is going to be a company of armed and dangerous Liberals attacking your home? Change the friggin channel and watch a situation comedy instead of what you keep watching.

You shouldn't get to decide what another person feels comfortable using for home defense. You seem more interested in protecting the person breaking into the home. You are the Oklahoma Grandpa, aren't you.

He is a fucking idiot. An AR-15 is not a military grade weapon. Many liberal shitheads are too stupid to know that what a rifle looks like means relatively nothing.