If abortion is so great why don't they show what it looks like?

[Frankeneinstein]

Personhood from conception will never happen in this country.

now is that "bad"? or "worse"?

Never mind convincing me, you can't even convince right pro-choicers like @Frankeneinstein that a zygote qualifies as a person with personal rights.

I am pro choice, [to the meager extent that I care] abortion on demand [as a convenience] should remain legal IMO [but it is at the bottom of my list of priorities], I voted democrat across the board this past tuesday without consideration for their stance on the issue...your argument of it as only a "bad" or "worse" procedure may be correct but is also the product of a bumper sticker mentality that has allowed those with an academic education to out maneuver the left on this issue.

Nobody except some religious fundies believe that

I'm atheist and you claim I believe that...your contradictions are piling up as fast as your argument is falling apart.

 

[AntonToo]

now is that "bad"? or "worse"?

I'm pro choice, [to the meager extent that I care] abortion on demand [as a convenience] should remain legal IMO [but it is at the bottom of my list of priorities], I voted democrat across the board this past tuesday without consideration for their stance on the issue...your argument of it as only a "bad" or "worse" procedure may be correct but is also the product of a bumper sticker mentality that has allowed those with an academic education to out maneuver the left on this issue.

I'm atheist and you claim I believe that...your contradictions are piling up as fast as your argument is falling apart.

....

So you agree that a person considering abortion has no good options, only bad or worse.

You agree that a zygote is not a person, had no personal rights and does not over-ride freedoms of people.

Game over. Though maybe next time you should just be honest up front instead of wasting everyone's time dumbass.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Chicken shit.

from the white liberal lexicon

Throwing your two dumb cents into abortion debate,

mine was a question, "which is which"? to you...Nothing else! Everything else was invented by you

but too fucking scared to admit position on the fundamental question.

I'm pro choice and think abortion should remain legal, but I hate being lumped in with the "socially educated" that puts the "rank" in their ranks...
the set backs to ROE are historic in that it is nearly impossible to have them rescinded in this manner, the reason it was even possible is that the last 50 years of social education is now smacking us across the face.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

So you agree that a person considering abortion has no good options, only bad or worse

You agree that zygote is not a person and does not over-ride freedoms of people.

Game over. Thank you for playing.

does this mean we can get back on topic now?

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

enjoy a lifetime of fringe and disappointment.

Please don't do the same, please fuck off and die.

All you're gonna do is spam the same stupid pictures and say the same stupid shit over and over, so just spare everyone else.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Personhood from conception will never happen in this country.

A person is a person no matter what the law says.

Early in our country's history, blacks weren't recognized fully as persons. In Nazi Germany, Jews and other Untermenschen weren't fully recognized as persons.

The failure of any system of law to recognize the personhood of any group of human beings does not mean that they are not actually persons; it only demonstrates a defect in that system of laws.

The law can no more make an unborn human being not a person, than it can cause •+• to equal ••••••••••.

Jews •WERE• and •ARE• people, are human beings, even in Nazi Germany. Blacks •WERE• and •ARE• people, are human beings, even in those states early in our history where they were treated as nothing better than farm animals.

And unborn human beings •WERE• and •ARE• people, are human beings, even where society condones their cold-blooded murder.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

So you agree that a person considering abortion has no good options, only bad or worse.

If you deny the humanity of the innocent victim of an abortion, then how is abortion bad at all?

To see abortion as a bad option, surely you must recognize that some harm is being caused by it. What harm is there, other than to the innocent human being that you refuse to acknowledge as such?

 

[JoeB131]

A person is a person no matter what the law says.

Early in our country's history, blacks weren't recognized fully as persons. In Nazi Germany, Jews and other Untermenschen weren't fully recognized as persons.

The failure of any system of law to recognize the personhood of any group of human beings does not mean that they are not actually persons; it only demonstrates a defect in that system of laws.

The law can no more make an unborn human being not a person, than it can cause •+• to equal ••••••••••.

Jews •WERE• and •ARE• people, are human beings, even in Nazi Germany. Blacks •WERE• and •ARE• people, are human beings, even in those states early in our history where they were treated as nothing better than farm animals.

And unborn human beings •WERE• and •ARE• people, are human beings, even where society condones their cold-blooded murder.

Except the "unborn" have never been recognized as people, even when abortion was illegal. Nobody was ever charged with murder for performing an abortion.

People only exist legally when a birth certificate is issued.
They are only counted in the Census after they are born.
They are only deductions for tax purposes after they are born.

To compare a woman's reproductive choice to the Holocaust of Slavery is just nuts.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Except the "unborn" have never been recognized as people, even when abortion was illegal. Nobody was ever charged with murder for performing an abortion.

People only exist legally when a birth certificate is issued.
They are only counted in the Census after they are born.
They are only deductions for tax purposes after they are born.

To compare a woman's reproductive choice to the Holocaust of Slavery is just nuts.

So, if someone were to go to some isolated wilderness, inhabited by primitive people who have no sophisticated form of government, no census, no birth records, no legal establishment of their personhood, and start killing those people, you'd be OK with that? After all, if they've never been counted in a census, and never been issued birth certificates, then they're really not people at all, right?

 

[JoeB131]

So, if someone were to go to some isolated wilderness, inhabited by primitive people who have no sophisticated form of government, no census, no birth records, no legal establishment of their personhood, and start killing those people, you'd be OK with that? After all, if they've never been counted in a census, and never been issued birth certificates, then they're really not people at all, right?

There is some isolated wilderness left?

Human life is cheap, buddy. More kids die of treatable diseases in the third world than are ever killed in abortions...

 

[Bob Blaylock]

So, if someone were to go to some isolated wilderness, inhabited by primitive people who have no sophisticated form of government, no census, no birth records, no legal establishment of their personhood, and start killing those people, you'd be OK with that? After all, if they've never been counted in a census, and never been issued birth certificates, then they're really not people at all, right?

There is some isolated wilderness left?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontacted_peoples

I don't suppose it even takes “uncontacted peoples” to fulfill my hypothetical example. Plenty of primitive tribes in places like much of Africa, with little or no organized government, plenty of people being born, living, and dying, with no official government records of their existence. Does this mean that they are not really people, and that it is OK to kill them?

If India decided to stop protecting the Sentinelese, and to just carpet-bomb the entire North Sentinel Island, killing every living creature thereon, would that be an act of genocide or mass murder, or just clearing out a useless island so that it can be repurposed. After all, nobody even knows how many Sentinelese exist, estimated to be anywhere from 15 to 200. No government records of any kind exist of any individual Sentinelese—no birth certificates, no census counts, nothing. By your stated logic, these are not people, so why shouldn't India just exterminate them and clear the island so that they can use it for some other purpose?

 

[AntonToo]

A person is a person no matter what the law says.

Early in our country's history, blacks weren't

Listen Bob if you want to throw your two cents please read the thread first.

We've covered relationship between law and consensus and we covered the black personhood. I don't feel like running in circles.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

Listen Bob if you want to throw your two cents please read the thread first.

We've covered relationship between law and consensus and we covered the black personhood. I don't feel like running in circles.

And yet all you do is spam the same stupid pictures.

Your only retarded reply was no, they were people anyway... despite the law saying they weren't, despite the Supreme Court saying they weren't, despite them being owned as property and having no rights protected whatsoever. Totally people.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

To compare a woman's reproductive choice to the Holocaust of Slavery is just nuts.

Matter of scale.

To compare an individual contract killing to the Holocaust doesn't work. And yet Planned Parenthood alone, without its other peers, has killed enough innocent human beings to make Hitler's killcount seem miniscule.

I'll agree that the slavery thing isn't the best example of a 1:1 comparison - mass murder is far worse than mass kidnapping and forced labor. Slaves can escape - the dead are just dead.

For clarity, yes, this DOES makes you and yours worse than any slavery or Nazi supporter.

 

[AntonToo]

does this mean we can get back on topic now?

Wtf?

That IS the topic - abortion supposedly being good is just a strawman about pro-choice position.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

Wtf?

That IS the topic - abortion supposedly being good is just a strawman about pro-choice position.

It's literally what you people say. Sorry you still have the old talking points but we don't buy your bullshit anymore.

You pro-aborts are all about "shout your abortion" now.

 

[AntonToo]

It's literally what you people say.

Quote me retard.

 

[JoeB131]

I don't suppose it even takes “uncontacted peoples” to fulfill my hypothetical example. Plenty of primitive tribes in places like much of Africa, with little or no organized government, plenty of people being born, living, and dying, with no official government records of their existence. Does this mean that they are not really people, and that it is OK to kill them?

If India decided to stop protecting the Sentinelese, and to just carpet-bomb the entire North Sentinel Island, killing every living creature thereon, would that be an act of genocide or mass murder, or just clearing out a useless island so that it can be repurposed. After all, nobody even knows how many Sentinelese exist, estimated to be anywhere from 15 to 200. No government records of any kind exist of any individual Sentinelese—no birth certificates, no census counts, nothing. By your stated logic, these are not people, so why shouldn't India just exterminate them and clear the island so that they can use it for some other purpose?

Why do you have to find such crazy examples.
We are talking SPECIFICALLY about American law. American law doesn't recognize people as people until they are born... because anything else would be crazy.

 

[JoeB131]

Matter of scale.

To compare an individual contract killing to the Holocaust doesn't work. And yet Planned Parenthood alone, without its other peers, has killed enough innocent human beings to make Hitler's killcount seem miniscule.

Planned Parenthood has killed ZERO human beings.
They've terminated unwanted pregnancies.
Unwanted pregnancies are not human beings.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

Planned Parenthood has killed ZERO human beings.

Objectively false, you inhuman lying piece of shit.

You want to deny these human beings personhood, but you lying that they are living members of our species being violently killed is literally insane - divorced from reality here on Earth.


2+2 will not equal 5 no matter how many times some sociopathic nutjob like yourself insists that it is. Your delusions will not alter reality.