forkintheroad7
Gold Member
- Apr 22, 2024
- 324
- 178
- 143
says you. You are not Jesus. I don't have to listen to your human-derived interpretations of the WordIt doesn't address it, therefore God didn't think it was critical for us to worry about.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature currently requires accessing the site using the built-in Safari browser.
says you. You are not Jesus. I don't have to listen to your human-derived interpretations of the WordIt doesn't address it, therefore God didn't think it was critical for us to worry about.
How is it sad?It only matters when someone tries to elevate Mary above what she actually was, one of God's agents that He picked, blessed and set on a hard road. I've talked with a Catholic woman who prayed to Mary, hoping that she would hear the prayer and take it to Jesus, and that He would listen to Mary more than He would the woman who was supposed to be praying directly to Him. That, unfortunately, is a sad result of such adulation.
No, she said she did not know a man, not that she never would. Why would she marry Joseph, intending to remain celibate and forcing him to be as well?I am simply pointing out what the original word used meant. Kin. Of course it could reference children, step-children, nieces, nephews, cousins. The point is, the Mary told the angel she would not know man.
Do you have a source for that?Jesus assigned John to care for his mother. In the early church it was said Mary remained a virgin, and some said the 'brethren' translation was misleading as some might take it to mean Mary had other children. This was laughed away as the response was, "No one is going to believe that!"
No, the custom was that family would take care of widows. When we see that Mary is present to see Jesus with either children or extended family, that means she had relatives that would have been obligated to take care of her. Jesus deliberately chose John to take care of her. Why is not recorded, so obviously God didn't think it vital that we know.That is reaching. These others would have their own parents to care for and who would have come first.
What's important is what I've seen where Mary assumes greater importance to believers than she should. There are those who literally worship her instead of God, believing she will make their requests more important to God than if they came straight from them. I know, I know, you claim they don't, and I can only hope that few do, but I believe it's fairly common that they do.Why is it so important that Mary had other children? I've studied the original words; I've studied the traditions. I'm not seeing it...except through poor translations.
I would hope you would not listen to me but to the Word, and not put church tradition above it.says you. You are not Jesus. I don't have to listen to your human-derived interpretations of the Word
It is very sad when someone starts to worship or pray to anyone or anything other than God. I would hope that you would know that.How is it sad?
The Word says who is saved and who is not. Why would you even attempt to put that on me? I certainly have never claimed that authority.And you non-Catholics have some bizarre beliefs yourself (not that what you say here is bizarre; it is not), especially about the salvation of a Catholic, something you have no place to speak on since most of you get Catholicism WRONG most of the time (to say the least). Then there's that pesky little thing about how you are not the ultimate Judge of who is saved and who is not.
No, she said she did not know a man, not that she never would.
no one worships Mary over Jesus. You've been LIED to.It is very sad when someone starts to worship or pray to anyone or anything other than God.
Where?It is very sad when someone starts to worship or pray to anyone or anything other than God. I would hope that you would know that.
The Word says who is saved and who is not.
I allow people to worship or pray as they feel is right for them. I don't see any harm in praying to Mary so long as we have faith in God and know He is the one who answers the prayer. I don't personally believe that Mary or any of the saints are necessary to intercede for us and I would never teach that, but I think God allows the faithful a lot of leeway in these things.It only matters when someone tries to elevate Mary above what she actually was, one of God's agents that He picked, blessed and set on a hard road. I've talked with a Catholic woman who prayed to Mary, hoping that she would hear the prayer and take it to Jesus, and that He would listen to Mary more than He would the woman who was supposed to be praying directly to Him. That, unfortunately, is a sad result of such adulation.
Yes, that sweet old Catholic lady who said she prayed to Mary, hoping that would make her prayer more important in God's eyes, was lying. There is only one name given by which we can approach the throne, one.no one worships Mary over Jesus. You've been LIED to.
How many times have you, personally, seen this? For example, I haven't seen any--and I'm Catholic.I've seen where Mary assumes greater importance to believers than she should
There is simply nothing in scripture to inform us one way or the other. It was necessary perhaps that Mary remain a virgin until Jesus birth to fulfill the prophecy in Isaiah 7.14: Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. That Mary remain a virgin after Jesus' birth was apparently not important at all to Matthew and Luke who wrote the Christmas narratives as it was never mentioned.I wish I could remember where at one time I read there were people in that time who chose to remain virgins or become celibate. It was a remarkable vow and would have been noteworthy simply because Jews were expected (and most wanted) to have many children. People of her own time could have nodded at Mary, whispering, She is one of them....It wouldn't have been said with admiration, either.
Perhaps because the angel said SHE would conceive, with no mention of Joseph. Again, there is no Scriptural support that she had taken a vow of virginity which would force Joseph to also remain celibate. And, in the tradition Catholics love to walk, we don't know that we have every word recorded that the angel gave her, therefore, it was very likely that she understood something from the message that meant she alone was going to conceive without a man. Perhaps in her excitement to be talking with an angel, her betrothal went out the window. See, when we start adding things to Scripture, we can make up all kinds of plausible arguments.Wow, utterly amazing how anti-Catholics ignore the CLEAR words of Scripture so as to hold onto to their protestant beliefs! And why do they even have those protestant beliefs? Because some non-Catholic preached to them against Catholicism (is the answer much of the time). Why are you letting some protestant pastor decide what you believe, even when it clearly defies Scripture? Then you gripe about Catholics listening to the pope
(few listen to Francis but that's another topic for another thread).
You have not answered to the scripture psg in Luke about Mary being surprised, incredulous that she would bear a child. She was betrothed to Joseph so why would that surprise her unless she had taken a vow of virginity?
Yes, He was. He was set aside for a ministry like no other. His cousin John the Baptist likewise was almost certainly celibate, being a Nazarite. Mary was set aside solely to be Jesus' earthly mother, and Joseph His earthly father. There's no problem with them having a robust sex life and multiple children after Jesus was born.I've noticed non Catholics generally do not like the idea of celibacy and virginity..
Really peculiar. Jesus was celibate all his life
How don't see how this affects what I wrote one way or the other.Humans are always trying to bring God down to their own carnal or natural level.
It doesn't matter to you (to answer your question) but it did to God. See my other posts here about how Mary was incredulous that she would have a child. Why? She was getting ready to be married, was betrothed to J... so WHY would she ask
HOW can this be? (emphasis added)
Except...Isaiah was not referencing Mary, but a young woman (his daughter) who was married to King Hezekiah and who would bear the king's child.There is simply nothing in scripture to inform us one way or the other. It was necessary perhaps that Mary remain a virgin until Jesus birth to fulfill the prophecy in Isaiah 7.14: Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. That Mary remain a virgin after Jesus' birth was apparently not important at all to Matthew and Luke who wrote the Christmas narratives as it was never mentioned.
I have often felt the same wway, even as a practicing Cahtolic, that there wasn't much need to pray to the saints. But when I encountered a seemingly impossible situation not long ago, I found myself praying to the St of Impossible Things, St Jude. The situation is not entirely resolved but I know how I felt after praying to him: I felt listened to. Maybe feelings alone don't count for much, but I really, really appreciated feelingI allow people to worship or pray as they feel is right for them. I don't see any harm in praying to Mary so long as we have faith in God and know He is the one who answers the prayer. I don't personally believe that Mary or any of the saints are necessary to intercede for us and I would never teach that, but I think God allows the faithful a lot of leeway in these things.
maybe. I don't know. I've studied Church history but I can't say I am an expert (yet).The Roman Catholic religion is very old. Pagan religion had two "gods" one male , one female.
Mary was elevated in Catholisism to give the pagans a female entity to pray to.
what?How don't see how this affects what I wrote one way or the other.