Islam forbids

[Mr.Fitnah]

I find the Nobel Quran translation to be the most accurate as it does not white wash or impart bias by trying to translate into english words that cannot be directly translated .
Islam is radical, their is nothing unislamic about wahhabi thought

You like it because it conveniently reinforces your preconceived notions of Islam being a radical religion. Wahhabism is un-Islamic through and through, but what's the point of attempting to demonstrate that to you when you're so persistent in clinging to your illogical prejudice? You don't know if your favored translation is accurate and you don't care. It's "the best" because it allows you to rationalize your bigotry.

I have real translatation by Yusuf ali's:as well as pickthal , shakir, N.J. Dawood.
Do not think the people who commit acts of evangelic jihad to inspire others to join the caravan are reading a translation I believe they are reading a Quran printed in arabic and Im fairly sure it come from the same place as mine.
I first began to study Islam after hearing Islam had been hijacked and twisted ,I never heard the details, so I sought to find them so I could defend Islam form bigots.
After a full year of study I could no longer remain silent,
You are wasting your opportunity to present coherent defense of Islam by attacking Islamic fundementalist .
That doesn't help your case, It just proves you are a member of a deviant sect, practicing bidah

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Advice to those who do not recognize the Salafi scholars and call them Wahhaabis
what do you say to those who do not acknowledge (for whatever reason) the scholars of today such as shaikh Uthaymeen, shaykh bin Baaz raheemahullah, shaykh Al-Albaani raheemahullah? a few call them wahabi and say that these scholars follow a new sect rather than the universal deen of al-Islam that was followed by all the major scholars of the past.

Praise be to Allaah.

The Muslim is obliged to accept the teachings of Islam, and act upon them. When he hears of some word or deed which is based on evidence (daleel) from the Qur’aan or Sunnah, then he has to accept it and give it priority over anything else. He should check what people say against the evidence of sharee’ah, and only accept those views which are in accordance with that evidence. It is known that Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Abd Al-Wahhaab (may Allaah have mercy on him) called people to Tawheed and he wrote his famous book on that topic which is called Kitaab al-Tawheed. In this book he limited himself to quoting only the clear evidence from the verses of the Qur’aan and the saheeh ahaadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

Commentaries on this book were written by his grandson ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Hasan and other scholars. Hence none of his opponents can refute this book or claim that his evidence is false. They fabricated lies and believed them, so they believed that he was misguided. They gave the same label to the scholars of the Muslims such as Shaykh Ibn Baaz and Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on them both).

It is known that the shaykhs whom we have mentioned did not deviate from the correct view with regard to beliefs and actions; they followed the same path as the Sahaabah and Taabi’een, the four imaams, the authors of the Six Books and others. Those who do not acknowledge them do that either out of ignorance, blind imitation of others, jealousy, stubbornness or following their own whims and desires, or adherence to traditions, bid’ah (innovation) and evil actions that go against the evidence (of sharee’ah). Earlier and later scholars have proven such people to be wrong. So we must follow the evidence and give it priority over the views of all people.


Shaykh Ibn Jibreen

Islam Question and Answer - Advice to those who do not recognize the Salafi scholars and call them Wahhaabis

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Who are the Wahhaabis and what is their message?
i have recently come to islam and people have told me to stay away from wahabis, who are they and wht do they preech?

Praise be to Allaah.

It is obligatory upon the Muslim to follow the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), according to the way of the righteous salaf who followed the guidance of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), the Sahaabah and those who followed them – may Allaah be pleased with them all. These people are called Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah (the People of the Sunnah and the Community).

Everyone who follows the way brought by the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is one of them. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) brought the message of Tawheed (absolute Oneness of Allaah) and rejection of shirk (polytheism, or association of others with Allaah); he called people to worship Allaah alone and none other. With regard to the word “Wahhaabis”, some people use this word to refer to the message of Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhaab ibn Sulaymaan al-Tameemi al-Hanbali (may Allaah have mercy on him), and they call him and his followers Wahhaabis.

Everyone who has any knowledge of the movement of Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhaab (may Allaah have mercy on him) and his message knows that he sought to spread the message of pure Tawheed and to warn against shirk in all its forms, such as attachment to the dead, or to trees and rocks, etc. In his ‘aqeedah (belief), he was following the way of the righteous Salaf and the Taabi’een [i.e., the earliest generations of Islam], as is indicated by his books and fatwas, and the books of his followers among his sons and grandsons and others. All of these books are in print and are in circulation among the people.

His message was in accordance with the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Wahhaabism is not a new way or a new school of thought; rather it is a call to Tawheed and the revival of aspects of the religion that had been forgotten. What you have to do is to beware of those who warn you against the Wahhaabis, because they are warning you against following the truth and the early generation of this ummah. Applying the word “Wahhaabis” to those who adhere to correct belief and warning people against them is the way of the ignorant and biased. We ask Allaah to keep you safe and sound.

See Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him), 3/1206; see also Question # 12203. And Allaah knows best/

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

Islam Question and Answer - Who are the Wahhaabis and what is their message?

 

[Sunni Man]

I find the Nobel Quran translation to be the most accurate as it does not white wash or impart bias by trying to translate into english words that cannot be directly translated .
Islam is radical, their is nothing unislamic about wahhabi thought

You like it because it conveniently reinforces your preconceived notions of Islam being a radical religion. Wahhabism is un-Islamic through and through, but what's the point of attempting to demonstrate that to you when you're so persistent in clinging to your illogical prejudice? You don't know if your favored translation is accurate and you don't care. It's "the best" because it allows you to rationalize your bigotry.

You are wasting your opportunity to present coherent defense of Islam by attacking Islamic fundementalist .
That doesn't help your case, It just proves you are a member of a deviant sect, practicing bidah

LOL!!!

Kalam, what so called Mr. Fitnah is saying.

Is that if you don't agree with his version of what Islam is about.

(mainly, a radical fundamentalist version that is in his mind)

Then you are practicing innovation and are a heretic!!

 

[Kalam]

I have real translatation by Yusuf ali's:as well as pickthal , shakir, N.J. Dawood.

Shakir's is an almost direct plagiarization of M. M. Ali's. I suggest you read that as well as his commentary.

Do not think the people who commit acts of evangelic jihad to inspire others to join the caravan are reading a translation I believe they are reading a Quran printed in arabic and Im fairly sure it come from the same place as mine.

They're fed false interpretations by fools like the Wahhabis you seem to be so fond of.

I first began to study Islam after hearing Islam had been hijacked and twisted ,I never heard the details, so I sought to find them so I could defend Islam form bigots.

I take it you began your noble endeavor by referring to scholarly resources such as "answering Islam" and "jihad watch."

After a full year of study I could no longer remain silent,

Wow, a whole year, huh?

You are wasting your opportunity to present coherent defense of Islam by attacking Islamic fundementalist .

"Fundamentalist" is a misnomer - it implies that they actually abide by the basic tenets of the religion, which they don't. Unfortunately few "fundamentalists" show up here and I'm stuck dealing with armchair scholars such as yourself.

That doesn't help your case, It just proves you are a member of a deviant sect,

So what? If my sect is deviant in its view of Qur'anic primacy, that is a sad reflection on the state of Islam today - not on us.

practicing bidah

 

[Kalam]

You like it because it conveniently reinforces your preconceived notions of Islam being a radical religion. Wahhabism is un-Islamic through and through, but what's the point of attempting to demonstrate that to you when you're so persistent in clinging to your illogical prejudice? You don't know if your favored translation is accurate and you don't care. It's "the best" because it allows you to rationalize your bigotry.

You are wasting your opportunity to present coherent defense of Islam by attacking Islamic fundementalist .
That doesn't help your case, It just proves you are a member of a deviant sect, practicing bidah

LOL!!!

Kalam, what so called Mr. Fitnah is saying.

Is that if you don't agree with his version of what Islam is about.

(mainly, a radical fundamentalist version that is in his mind)

Then you are practicing innovation and are a heretic!!

Radicals and their supporters like Mr. Fitnah are similar in that respect.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Many muslims like to say "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people", I'm asking for someone to prove unequivocally using Islamic scripture that non muslims are innocent, Thanks for reading my post.

 

[Kalam]

Many muslims like to say "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people", I'm asking for someone to prove unequivocally using Islamic scripture that non muslims are innocent, Thanks for reading my post.

I have shown using Qur'anic scripture that Islam forbids any initiation of hostilities. This includes hostilities against non-Muslims. You are welcome.

 

[Anguille]

Many muslims like to say "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people", I'm asking for someone to prove unequivocally using Islamic scripture that non muslims are innocent, Thanks for reading my post.

Your posts have unequivocally proven to me that you have no idea what you are talking about. Thanks for reading my post.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Many muslims like to say "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people", I'm asking for someone to prove unequivocally using Islamic scripture that non muslims are innocent, Thanks for reading my post.

I have shown using Qur'anic scripture that Islam forbids any initiation of hostilities. This includes hostilities against non-Muslims. You are welcome.

Thank you, I have provided contrary interprations and clarifications for the most universally respected scholars whom you reject out of hand.

Dar-us-Salam Authors/Compilers
Biography of Hafiz Ibn Kathir
Author of Tafsir Ibn Kathir
Overview: Ibn Kathir's Teachers | Ibn Kathir's Students | Ibn Kathir's Books | Ibn Kathir's Death

By the Honored Shaykh `Abdul-Qadir Al-Arna'ut, may Allah protect him.

He is the respected Imam, Abu Al-Fida', `Imad Ad-Din Isma il bin 'Umar bin Kathir Al-Qurashi Al-Busrawi - Busraian in origin; Dimashqi in training, learning and residence.

Ibn Kathir was born in the city of Busra in 701 H. His father was the Friday speaker of the village, but he died while Ibn Kathir was only four years old. Ibn Kathir's brother, Shaykh Abdul-Wahhab, reared him and taught him until he moved to Damascus in 706 H., when he was five years old.

Ibn Kathir's Teachers
Ibn Kathir studied Fiqh - Islamic jurisprudence - with Burhan Ad-Din, Ibrahim bin `Abdur-Rahman Al-Fizari, known as Ibn Al-Firkah (who died in 729 H). Ibn Kathir heard Hadiths from `Isa bin Al-Mutim, Ahmad bin Abi Talib, (Ibn Ash-Shahnah) (who died in 730 H), Ibn Al-Hajjar, (who died in 730 H), and the Hadith narrator of Ash-Sham (modern day Syria and surrounding areas); Baha Ad-Din Al-Qasim bin Muzaffar bin `Asakir (who died in 723 H), and Ibn Ash-Shirdzi, Ishaq bin Yahya Al-Ammuddi, also known as `Afif Ad-Din, the Zahiriyyah Shaykh who died in 725 H, and Muhammad bin Zarrad. He remained with Jamal Ad-Din, Yusuf bin Az-Zaki AlMizzi who died in 724 H, he benefited from his knowledge and also married his daughter. He also read with Shaykh Al-Islam, Taqi Ad-Din Ahmad bin `Abdul-Halim bin `Abdus-Salam bin Taymiyyah who died in 728 H. He also read with the Imam Hafiz and historian Shams Ad-Din, Muhammad bin Ahmad bin Uthman bin Qaymaz Adh-Dhahabi, who died in 748 H. Also, Abu Musa Al-Qarafai, Abu Al-Fath Ad-Dabbusi and 'Ali bin `Umar As-Suwani and others who gave him permission to transmit the knowledge he learned with them in Egypt.

In his book, Al-Mu jam Al-Mukhtas, Al-Hafiz Adh-Dhaliabi wrote that Ibn Kathir was, "The Imam, scholar of jurisprudence, skillful scholar of Hadith, renowned Fagih and scholar of Tafsir who wrote several beneficial books."

Further, in Ad-Durar Al-Kdminah, Al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar AlAsqalani said, "Ibn Kathir worked on the subject of the Hadith in the areas of texts and chains of narrators. He had a good memory, his books became popular during his lifetime, and people benefited from them after his death."

Also, the renowned historian Abu Al-Mahasin, Jamal Ad-Din Yusuf bin Sayf Ad-Din (Ibn Taghri Bardi), said in his book, AlManhal As-Safi, "He is the Shaykh, the Imam, the great scholar `Imad Ad-Din Abu Al-Fida'. He learned extensively and was very active in collecting knowledge and writing. He was excellent in the areas of Fiqh, Tafsfr and Hadith. He collected knowledge, authored (books), taught, narrated Hadith and wrote. He had immense knowledge in the fields of Hadith, Tafsir, Fiqh, the Arabic language, and so forth. He gave Fatawa (religious verdicts) and taught until he died, may Allah grant him mercy. He was known for his precision and vast knowledge, and as a scholar of history, Hadith and Tafsir."

Ibn Kathir's Students
Ibn Hajji was one of Ibn Kathir's students, and he described Ibn Kathir: "He had the best memory of the Hadith texts. He also had the most knowledge concerning the narrators and authenticity, his contemporaries and teachers admitted to these qualities. Every time I met him I gained some benefit from him."

Also, Ibn Al-`Imad Al-Hanbali said in his book, Shadhardt Adh-Dhahab, "He is the renowned Hafiz `Imad Ad-Din, whose memory was excellent, whose forgetfulness was miniscule, whose understanding was adequate, and who had good knowledge in the Arabic language." Also, Ibn Habib said about Ibn Kathir, "He heard knowledge and collected it and wrote various books. He brought comfort to the ears with his Fatwas and narrated Hadith and brought benefit to other people. The papers that contained his Fatwas were transmitted to the various (Islamic) provinces. Further, he was known for his precision and encompassing knowledge."

Ibn Kathir's Books
1 - One of the greatest books that Ibn Kathir wrote was his Tafsir of the Noble Qur'an, which is one of the best Tafsir that rely on narrations [of Ahadith, the Tafsir of the Companions, etc.]. The Tafsir by Ibn Kathir was printed many times and several scholars have summarized it.

2- The History Collection known as Al-Biddyah, which was printed in 14 volumes under the name Al-Bidayah wanNihdyah, and contained the stories of the Prophets and previous nations, the Prophet's Seerah (life story) and Islamic history until his time. He also added a book Al-Fitan, about the Signs of the Last Hour.

3- At-Takmil ft Ma`rifat Ath-Thiqat wa Ad-Du'afa wal Majdhil which Ibn Kathir collected from the books of his two Shaykhs Al-Mizzi and Adh-Dhahabi; Al-Kdmal and Mizan Al-Ftiddl. He added several benefits regarding the subject of Al-Jarh and AtT'adil.

4- Al-Hadi was-Sunan ft Ahadith Al-Masdnfd was-Sunan which is also known by, Jami` Al-Masdnfd. In this book, Ibn Kathir collected the narrations of Imams Ahmad bin Hanbal, Al-Bazzar, Abu Ya`la Al-Mawsili, Ibn Abi Shaybah and from the six collections of Hadith: the Two Sahihs [Al-Bukhari and Muslim] and the Four Sunan [Abu Dawud, At-Tirmidhi, AnNasa and Ibn Majah]. Ibn Kathir divided this book according to areas of Fiqh.

5-Tabaqat Ash-Shaf iyah which also contains the virtues of Imam Ash-Shafi.

6- Ibn Kathir wrote references for the Ahadith of Adillat AtTanbfh, from the Shafi school of Fiqh.

7- Ibn Kathir began an explanation of Sahih Al-Bukhari, but he did not finish it.

8- He started writing a large volume on the Ahkam (Laws), but finished only up to the Hajj rituals.

9- He summarized Al-Bayhaqi's 'Al-Madkhal. Many of these books were not printed.

10- He summarized `Ulum Al-Hadith, by Abu `Amr bin AsSalah and called it Mukhtasar `Ulum Al-Hadith. Shaykh Ahmad Shakir, the Egyptian Muhaddith, printed this book along with his commentary on it and called it Al-Ba'th Al-Hathfth fi Sharh Mukhtasar `Ulum Al-Hadith.

11- As-Sfrah An-Nabawiyyah, which is contained in his book Al-Biddyah, and both of these books are in print.

12- A research on Jihad called Al-Ijtihad ft Talabi Al-Jihad, which was printed several times.

Ibn Kathir's Death
Al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar Al-Asgalani said, "Ibn Kathir lost his sight just before his life ended. He died in Damascus in 774 H." May Allah grant mercy upon Ibn Kathir and make him among the residents of His Paradise.

Biography of Imam Hafiz Ibn Kathir - Dar-us-Salam Publications

Those playing along at home can judge for themselves ,Thank you for participating in the thread, feel free to rejoin at any time.

 

[Kalam]

Thank you, I have provided contrary interprations and clarifications for the most universally respected scholars whom you reject out of hand.

Perhaps when I'm old and retired I'll put my interpretations on paper. Would you suddenly have more respect for them if they were between the covers of a book?

 

[Fatality]

there must be something in the koran or other accepted material that proves beyond all doubt that non-muhammdans are innocent people

You want me to quote Qur'anic scripture saying that non-Muslims are innocent merely by virtue of their being non-Islamic? Does that not seem like an illogical thing for the Qur'an to say, Mr. al-Kafir?

glad you admit that the koran makes it clear it considers all non-muslims guilty and therefore when a mohammdan says "we do not believe in the killing of innocent people" they are never refering to non-muslims

 

[PixieStix]

there must be something in the koran or other accepted material that proves beyond all doubt that non-muhammdans are innocent people

You want me to quote Qur'anic scripture saying that non-Muslims are innocent merely by virtue of their being non-Islamic? Does that not seem like an illogical thing for the Qur'an to say, Mr. al-Kafir?

glad you admit that the koran makes it clear it considers all non-muslims guilty and therefore when a mohammdan says "we do not believe in the killing of innocent people" they are never refering to non-muslims

Speading mischief is what we all non believers do. That is the justification for the killing.

Islamic theologians have separated the world into two houses - the house of war (dar al-harb) and the house of Islam


Either way

And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth",
means, "Do not commit acts of disobedience on the earth. Their mischief is disobeying Allah, because whoever disobeys Allah on the earth, or commands that Allah be disobeyed, he has committed mischief on the earth. Peace on both the earth and in the heavens is ensured (and earned) through obedience (to Allah)."

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Thank you, I have provided contrary interprations and clarifications for the most universally respected scholars whom you reject out of hand.

Perhaps when I'm old and retired I'll put my interpretations on paper. Would you suddenly have more respect for them if they were between the covers of a book?

No your opinion might mean something if it had intellectual force based on consistent scriptural interpretation, known history, backed up by the"prophet" and his companions and scholars. as of now it lacks that.
By all means, keep thinking about writing down your thought.

 

[Kalam]

there must be something in the koran or other accepted material that proves beyond all doubt that non-muhammdans are innocent people

You want me to quote Qur'anic scripture saying that non-Muslims are innocent merely by virtue of their being non-Islamic? Does that not seem like an illogical thing for the Qur'an to say, Mr. al-Kafir?

glad you admit that the koran makes it clear it considers all non-muslims guilty and therefore when a mohammdan says "we do not believe in the killing of innocent people" they are never refering to non-muslims

Reading comprehension must not be your strong point.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

You want me to quote Qur'anic scripture saying that non-Muslims are innocent merely by virtue of their being non-Islamic? Does that not seem like an illogical thing for the Qur'an to say, Mr. al-Kafir?

glad you admit that the koran makes it clear it considers all non-muslims guilty and therefore when a mohammdan says "we do not believe in the killing of innocent people" they are never refering to non-muslims

Reading comprehension must not be your strong point.

I got the same message from your post,I dont think you said what you may have intended to say.

 

[Kalam]

Speading mischief is what we all non believers do. That is the justification for the killing.

You must be a Wahhabi.

The language of the Qur'an tends to be fairly clear in its earlier chapters. If your belief was truly based on Qur'anic scripture, you'd be able to find a passage unequivocally stating that all non-believers are guilty and deserving of death.

What you and your pals don't seem to realize is that your weak-minded bigotry empowers radicals by legitimizing their flawed interpretations. You, to them, are useful idiots.

Islamic theologians have separated the world into two houses - the house of war (dar al-harb) and the house of Islam

Which are, of course, artificial divisions that are nowhere to be found in the Qur'an. That is an example of bid'ah.

 

[Kalam]

No your opinion might mean something if it had intellectual force based on consistent scriptural interpretation, known history, backed up by the"prophet"

My opinions meet all of these criteria. Nothing else matters.

Concerning "known history," do explain this and how it would be permissible under your particularly violent interpretation of Islam:

"Constitution" of Medina (Dustur al-Madinah)

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

No your opinion might mean something if it had intellectual force based on consistent scriptural interpretation, known history, backed up by the"prophet"

My opinions meet all of these criteria. Nothing else matters.

Concerning "known history," do explain this and how it would be permissible under your particularly violent interpretation of Islam:

"Constitution" of Medina (Dustur al-Madinah)

http://www.usmessageboard.com/blogs/mr-fitnah/129-what-was-mos-job.html

 

[Kalam]

No your opinion might mean something if it had intellectual force based on consistent scriptural interpretation, known history, backed up by the"prophet"

My opinions meet all of these criteria. Nothing else matters.

Concerning "known history," do explain this and how it would be permissible under your particularly violent interpretation of Islam:

"Constitution" of Medina (Dustur al-Madinah)

http://www.usmessageboard.com/blogs/mr-fitnah/129-what-was-mos-job.html

If you have an actual response, post it here.