Islam forbids

[Mr.Fitnah]

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

Question: does that mean that muslims have a duty to kill ALL non-muslims because the 'islamic scripture' doesn't tell you they are innocent?
I would like you to be clear with your answer and if possible, go ahead and quote where it tells you to murder anyone that is not muslim.

33:21. Indeed in the Messenger of Allâh (Muhammad ) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allâh and the Last Day and remembers Allâh much.


'Abdullah bin 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with them, reported:
Allah's Messenger said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, perform the Prayer, and pay Zakah. If they do that, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.
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Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:
The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I have been commanded to fight against people until they testify that there is no god but Allah, and he who professes it is guaranteed the protection of his property and life on my behalf except for a right warrant, and his affairs rest with Allah.
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Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, narrated:
When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) died and Abu Bakr was appointed as his successor (Caliph), some tribes among the Arabs became apostates. 'Umar asked Abu Bakr: Why would you fight against the people, when Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) declared: I have been directed to fight against people till they say: There is no god but Allah? And he who professes it is granted full protection of his property and life on my behalf except for a right cause. His (other) affairs rest with Allah. Upon this Abu Bakr said: By Allah, I would definitely fight against those who severed the Prayer from Zakah, for it is the obligation upon the rich. By Allah, I would fight against them even if they withheld a cord (used for hobbling the feet of a camel) which they used to give to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) (as Zakah).
Hadith number in Sahih Muslim [Arabic only]: 29

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

Question: does that mean that muslims have a duty to kill ALL non-muslims because the 'islamic scripture' doesn't tell you they are innocent?
I would like you to be clear with your answer and if possible, go ahead and quote where it tells you to murder anyone that is not muslim.

There is no compulsion to accept Islam

Question:
Some friends say that whoever does not enter Islam, that is his choice and he should not be forced to become Muslim, quoting as evidence the verses in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed, all of them together. So, will you (O Muhammad) then compel mankind, until they become believers”
[Yoonus 10:99]
“There is no compulsion in religion”
[al-Baqarah 2:256]
What is your opinion concerning that?.

Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.

The scholars explained that these two verses, and other similar verses, have to do with those from whom the jizyah may be taken, such as Jews, Christians and Magians (Zoroastrians). They are not to be forced, rather they are to be given the choice between becoming Muslim or paying the jizyah.

Other scholars said that this applied in the beginning, but was subsequently abrogated by Allaah’s command to fight and wage jihad. So whoever refuses to enter Islam should be fought when the Muslims are able to fight, until they either enter Islam or pay the jizyah if they are among the people who may pay jizyah. The kuffaar should be compelled to enter Islam if they are not people from whom the jizyah may be taken, because that will lead to their happiness and salvation in this world and in the Hereafter. Obliging a person to adhere to the truth in which is guidance and happiness is better for him than falsehood. Just as a person may be forced to do the duty that he owes to other people even if that is by means of imprisonment or beating, so forcing the kaafirs to believe in Allaah alone and enter into the religion of Islam is more important and more essential, because this will lead to their happiness in this world and in the Hereafter. This applies unless they are People of the Book, i.e., Jews and Christians, or Magians, because Islam says that these three groups may be given the choice: they may enter Islam or they may pay the jizyah and feel themselves subdued.

Some of the scholars are of the view that others may also be given the choice between Islam and jizyah, but the most correct view is that no others should be given this choice, rather these three groups are the only ones who may be given the choice, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) fought the kuffaar in the Arabian Peninsula and he only accepted their becoming Muslim. And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:5]

He did not say,“if they pay the jizyah”. The Jews, Christians and Magians are to be asked to enter Islam; if they refuse then they should be asked to pay the jizyah. If they refuse to pay the jizyah then the Muslims must fight them if they are able to do so. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allaah,(2) nor in the Last Day,(3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad),(4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”

[al-Tawbah 9:29]

And it was proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) accepted the jizyah from the Magians, but it was not proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them) accepted the jizyah from anyone except the three groups mentioned above.

The basic principle concerning that is the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):

“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allaah), and the religion (worship) will all be for Allaah Alone [in the whole of the world]”

[al-Anfaal 8:39]

“Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikoon (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:5]

This verse is known as Ayat al-Sayf (the verse of the sword).

These and similar verses abrogate the verses which say that there is no compulsion to become Muslim.

And Allaah is the Source of strength.

Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Maqaalaat li’l-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 6/219


Islam Question and Answer - There is no compulsion to accept Islam

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Islam Question and Answer - Meanings of the word fitnah in the Qur’aan

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

Question: does that mean that muslims have a duty to kill ALL non-muslims because the 'islamic scripture' doesn't tell you they are innocent?
I would like you to be clear with your answer and if possible, go ahead and quote where it tells you to murder anyone that is not muslim.

It would appear that that is clearly at least one interpretation.

 

[Kalam]

Ill stick with the most widely accepted exegesis of the Quran known to mankind.

I accept your concession. Thank you for admitting that you're unable to demonstrate that fasad means disobedience to God.

 

[Kalam]

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

Question: does that mean that muslims have a duty to kill ALL non-muslims because the 'islamic scripture' doesn't tell you they are innocent?
I would like you to be clear with your answer and if possible, go ahead and quote where it tells you to murder anyone that is not muslim.

You probably know as well as I do that he can't, because no such passage exists. His only resources are the website of some Saudi author and a Qur'anic commentary written just after the end of the Crusades. Fitnah is a dishonest tool.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Ill stick with the most widely accepted exegesis of the Quran known to mankind.

I accept your concession. Thank you for admitting that you're unable to demonstrate that fasad means disobedience to God.

You really are demented.
http://www.imsa.us/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=312

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

Question: does that mean that muslims have a duty to kill ALL non-muslims because the 'islamic scripture' doesn't tell you they are innocent?
I would like you to be clear with your answer and if possible, go ahead and quote where it tells you to murder anyone that is not muslim.

You probably know as well as I do that he can't, because no such passage exists. His only resources are the website of some Saudi author and a Qur'anic commentary written just after the end of the Crusades. Fitnah is a dishonest tool.

Better written then, than commentary written now to whitewash Islam while Islam is under scrutiny .

 

[Kalam]

http://www.imsa.us/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=312

 

[Kalam]

Better written then, than commentary written now to whitewash Islam while Islam is under scrutiny .

Of course purely Qur'anic interpretations are dismissed by you as "whitewashing." A tafsir written at the end of several centuries of Christian aggression is most likely going to advocate violence due to religious animosity. Ibn Kathir's interpretation of that ayah has no Qur'anic basis.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

http://www.imsa.us/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=312

Al-Fasad appears when people follow their lusts and vain desires, when they try to twist the truth and distort the facts.
Instead of following the Truth and the Guidance from their Lord and Creator, they ignore and turn away from His message.

Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi

Whom you use to "prove your points"
http://www.usmessageboard.com/1700589-post1168.html

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Better written then, than commentary written now to whitewash Islam while Islam is under scrutiny .

Of course purely Qur'anic interpretations are dismissed by you as "whitewashing." A tafsir written at the end of several centuries of Christian aggression is most likely going to advocate violence due to religious animosity. Ibn Kathir's interpretation of that ayah has no Qur'anic basis.

Jihad begat crusades.

Ibn Kathir wrote a famous commentary on the Qur'an named Tafsir ibn Kathir which linked certain Hadith, or sayings of Muhammad, and sayings of the sahaba to verses of the Qur'an, in explanation.

Tafsir Ibn Kathir is famous all over the Muslim world and among Muslims in the Western world, is one of the most widely used explanations of the Qu'ran today.
Ibn Kathir was renowned for his great memory regarding the sayings of Muhammad and the entire Qur'an.

Ibn Kathir is known as a qadi,

Qadi (also known as Qazi, Kazi or Kadi) (Arabic: قاضي qāḍī&#8206 is a judge ruling in accordance with the sharia, Islamic religious law. Because Islam makes no distinction between religious and secular domains, qadis traditionally have jurisdiction over all legal matters involving Muslims. The judgment of a qadi must be based on ijma, the prevailing consensus of the ulema, Islamic scholars.


a master scholar of history, and a mufassir (Qur'an commentator). Ibn Kathir saw himself as a Shafi'i scholar. This is indicated by two of his books, one of which was Tabaqaat ah-Shafai'ah, or The Categories of the Followers of Imam Shafi.

please provide authority by which Kathir should be rejected?
It is recommended by the sites you have be referring to recently.

 

[Kalam]

http://www.imsa.us/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=312

Al-Fasad appears when people follow their lusts and vain desires, when they try to twist the truth and distort the facts.
Instead of following the Truth and the Guidance from their Lord and Creator, they ignore and turn away from His message.

Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi

Whom you use to "prove your points"
http://www.usmessageboard.com/1700589-post1168.html

Your point? Siddiqi, like me, realizes that mere disbelief does not equate to fasad. I provided every crime mentioned in conjunction with fasad in the Qur'an; I did not bother including afsada or fasada because they're different words from the same root. Fasad is literally "corruption/violence"; you'll notice that most of the crimes described in such a manner by the Qur'an are physically destructive or violent. You are desperate to prove that every word in the Qur'an somehow translates into "disbelief." It's rather hilarious.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Al-Fasad appears when people follow their lusts and vain desires, when they try to twist the truth and distort the facts.
Instead of following the Truth and the Guidance from their Lord and Creator, they ignore and turn away from His message.

Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi

Whom you use to "prove your points"
http://www.usmessageboard.com/1700589-post1168.html

Your point? Siddiqi, like me, realizes that mere disbelief does not equate to fasad. I provided every crime mentioned in conjunction with fasad in the Qur'an; I did not bother including afsada or fasada because they're different words from the same root. Fasad is literally "corruption/violence"; you'll notice that most of the crimes described in such a manner by the Qur'an are physically destructive or violent. You are desperate to prove that every word in the Qur'an somehow translates into "disbelief." It's rather hilarious.

Do you think those smilies distracted from your lies and distortions?

http://www.imsa.us/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=312

Al-Fasad appears when people follow their lusts and vain desires, when they try to twist the truth and distort the facts.
Instead of following the Truth and the Guidance from their Lord and Creator, they ignore and turn away from His message.

Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi

Whom you use to "prove your points"
http://www.usmessageboard.com/1700589-post1168.html

Ill stick with the most widely accepted exegesis of the Quran known to mankind.

I accept your concession. Thank you for admitting that you're unable to demonstrate that fasad means disobedience to God.

Of course you cannot see the similarities, because you must .
Willful blindness.

 

[Kalam]

Do you think those smilies distracted from your lies and distortions?

My posts are distortion-free, kimosabe. The emoticons are included to remind you that your posts are laughably ridiculous.

Al-Fasad appears when people follow their lusts and vain desires, when they try to twist the truth and distort the facts.

Instead of following the Truth and the Guidance from their Lord and Creator, they ignore and turn away from His message.

I'm sorry; Siddiqi describes "ignoring... His message" as a product of fasad, not as its definition. Time to brush up on the old reading comprehension, ey?

Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi

Whom you use to "prove your points"

It may disappoint you to know that quoting a statement made my somebody does not imply that you're in complete lockstep with that person.

In this case, however, I see nothing wrong with what he wrote.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Seek help

Meaning of Mischief





In his Tafsir, As-Suddi said that Ibn `Abbas and Ibn Mas`ud commented,


﴿وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ لاَ تُفْسِدُواْ فِى الأَرْضِ قَالُواْ إِنَّمَا نَحْنُ مُصْلِحُونَ ﴾


(And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth,'' they say: "We are only peacemakers.'') "They are the hypocrites. As for,


﴿لاَ تُفْسِدُواْ فِى الأَرْضِ﴾


("Do not make mischief on the earth''), that is disbelief and acts of disobedience.'' Abu Ja`far said that Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that Abu Al-`Aliyah said that Allah's statement,


﴿وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ لاَ تُفْسِدُواْ فِى الأَرْضِ﴾


(And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth,''), means, "Do not commit acts of disobedience on the earth. Their mischief is disobeying Allah, because whoever disobeys Allah on the earth, or commands that Allah be disobeyed, he has committed mischief on the earth. Peace on both the earth and in the heavens is ensured (and earned) through obedience (to Allah).'' Ar-Rabi` bin Anas and Qatadah said similarly.

 

[Kalam]

Having a mental malfunction?

Unfortunately, posting something over and over again does not add to its veracity. Your strategy isn't going to work out for you, I'm sorry to say. Now, how about proving -- using the Qur'an -- that mere disbelief is encompassed by fasad?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Having a mental malfunction?

Unfortunately, posting something over and over again does not add to its veracity. Your strategy isn't going to work out for you, I'm sorry to say. Now, how about proving -- using the Qur'an -- that mere disbelief is encompassed by fasad?

Sorry, that would be your strawman , I never made the claim.
The Tafsir and the witness you are trying to impeach Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi are in agreement. Al fasad "corruption" is the result of disobedience, disbelief is injustice and oppression. To some extent they could overlap,
Im not hanging my hat on that ,you are.

The Qur'anic term for corruption is al-Fasad. It means spoiling the order, disturbing the balance of justice*** by greed, selfinterest,
deception and double talk. The Qur'an has used this word about 50 times. Al-Fasad could be in morals, in
values, in social system, in family system, in educational system, in economics, in politics or in human relations in
general.
Al-Fasad appears when people follow their lusts and vain desires, when they try to twist the truth and distort the facts.
Instead of following the Truth and the Guidance from their Lord and Creator, they ignore and turn away from His
message.
Al fasad is almost as vague as Al fitnah.


***
"The unjust person is he who refuses to proclaim, `There is no God worthy of worship except Allah'.''

Under Allah's statement:

[وَقَـتِلُوهُمْ حَتَّى لاَ تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ]

(And fight them until there is no more Fitnah) Al-Bukhari recorded that Nafi` said that two men came to Ibn `Umar during the conflict of Ibn Az-Zubayr and said to him, "The people have fallen into shortcomings and you are the son of `Umar and the Prophet's Companion. Hence, what prevents you from going out'' He said, "What prevents me is that Allah has for bidden shedding the blood of my (Muslim) brother.'' They said, "Did not Allah say:

[وَقَـتِلُوهُمْ حَتَّى لاَ تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ]

(And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah))'' He said, "We did fight until there was no more Fitnah and the religion became for Allah Alone. You want to fight until there is Fitnah and the religion becomes for other than Allah!''

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Is there an Arabic word for these oppressors ?

The Noble Quran's Search Results:

Seems there is little doubt as to the use of the word oppressor in this verse.
In the Arabic the word is Zâlimûn
Polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust.

The Noble Quran's Search Results:

Apparently the same arabic word is used to describe oppresors in 2:193 and 2:254

Quraan Transliteration

That means disbelief is oppresion

 

[Kalam]

Stuck on repeat?

O you who believe, spend out of what We have given you before the day comes in which there is no bargaining, nor friendship, nor intercession. And the disbelievers -- they are the wrongdoers. Allah -- there is no god but He, the Ever-living, the Self-subsisting by Whom all subsist. Slumber overtakes Him not, nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him but by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them. And they encompass nothing of His knowledge except what He pleases. His knowledge extends over the heavens and the earth, and the preservation of them both tires Him not. And He is the Most High, the Great. There is no compulsion in religion -- the right way is indeed clearly distinct from error. So whoever disbelieves in the devil and believes in Allah, he indeed lays hold on the firmest handle which shall never break. And Allah is Hearing, Knowing. Allah is the Friend of those who believe -- He brings them out of darkness into light. And those who disbelieve, their friends are the devils who take them out of light into darkness. They are the companions of the Fire; therein they abide. - 2:254-257​

The best tafsir is the Qur'an itself.