Islam forbids

[Kalam]

Sorry, that would be your strawman , I never made the claim.

My, my. You posted this false interpretation. Can I assume, then, that you no longer agree with it?

Their mischief is disobeying Allah, because whoever disobeys Allah on the earth, or commands that Allah be disobeyed, he has committed mischief on the earth.

The Tafsir and the witness you are trying to impeach Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi are in agreement. Al fasad "corruption" is the result of disobedience, disbelief is injustice and oppression. To some extent they could overlap,
Im not hanging my hat on that ,you are.

The tafsir you cite equates fasad to kufr. Siddiqi does nothing of the sort. He points out, correctly, that kufr is likely to result in fasad, not that it is tantamount to fasad. The Qur'an prescribes punishment only for those who have actually committed the crime.

Al fasad is almost as vague as Al fitnah.

The definitions are abundantly clear to anyone who does not attempt to ascribe false meanings to them.

Edward William Lane's Arabic-English Lexicon FREE

To examine words as they're used in the Qur'an, simply refer to other passages in which they appear. It isn't particularly difficult.

 

[Kalam]

And fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you but do not transgress. Surely Allah loves not the aggressors. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out of where they drove you out, and fitnah is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it; so if they fight you, slay them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is only for Allah. But if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the wrongdoers. The sacred month for the sacred month, and retaliation in sacred things. Whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you and keep your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty. - 2:190-194​

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Sorry, that would be your strawman , I never made the claim.

My, my. You posted this false interpretation. Can I assume, then, that you no longer agree with it?

Their mischief is disobeying Allah, because whoever disobeys Allah on the earth, or commands that Allah be disobeyed, he has committed mischief on the earth.

The tafseer in totality

Meaning of Mischief





In his Tafsir, As-Suddi said that Ibn `Abbas and Ibn Mas`ud commented,


﴿وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ لاَ تُفْسِدُواْ فِى الأَرْضِ قَالُواْ إِنَّمَا نَحْنُ مُصْلِحُونَ ﴾


(And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth,'' they say: "We are only peacemakers.'') "They are the hypocrites. As for,


﴿لاَ تُفْسِدُواْ فِى الأَرْضِ﴾


("Do not make mischief on the earth''), that is disbelief and acts of disobedience.'' Abu Ja`far said that Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that Abu Al-`Aliyah said that Allah's statement,


﴿وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ لاَ تُفْسِدُواْ فِى الأَرْضِ﴾


(And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth,''), means, "Do not commit acts of disobedience on the earth. Their mischief is disobeying Allah, because whoever disobeys Allah on the earth, or commands that Allah be disobeyed, he has committed mischief on the earth. Peace on both the earth and in the heavens is ensured (and earned) through obedience (to Allah).'' Ar-Rabi` bin Anas and Qatadah said similarly.

It may disappoint you to know that quoting a statement made my somebody does not imply that you're in complete lockstep with that person.

In this case, however, I see nothing wrong with what he wrote.

 

[Kalam]

And what, exactly, does that change about what I posted?

 

[mal]

But if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the wrongdoers.

Define that Final Word...



peace...

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

And what, exactly, does that change about what I posted?

It doesn't, I dont wish to ever change what you say.

What I post, illuminates your ridicules positions and flailing attempts to habilitate Ilsam .

Al fasad: Corruption, What happens when one disobeys allah
Al Munkar: all that Islam has forbidden
Al fitnah:Virtually anything a muslim doesnt like tempts or frightens or makes a muslim uncomfortable or allah doesnt like Munkar Zulm al fasad [URL="http://www.islam-qa.com/en/search2/kufr/AllWords/t,q,a"]kufar[/URL] etc.

Of course you cannot see any connection or see how they are all entrenched and intertwined in Islamic thought.

This is the willful blindness on your part that makes your success as my tool obvious, and your flailing all the more pathetic, even I feel sorry for you .

 

[Kalam]

And what, exactly, does that change about what I posted?

It doesn't, I dont wish to ever change what you say.

What I post, illuminates your ridicules positions and flailing attempts to habilitate Ilsam .

Al fasad: Corruption, What happens when one disobeys allah
Al Munkar: all that Islam has forbidden
Al fitnah:Virtually anything a muslim doesnt like tempts or frightens or makes a muslim uncomfortable or allah doesnt like Munkar Zulm al fasad [URL="http://www.islam-qa.com/en/search2/kufr/AllWords/t,q,a"]kufar[/URL] etc.

Of course you cannot see any connection or see how they are all entrenched and intertwined in Islamic thought.

This is the willful blindness on your part that makes your success as my tool obvious, and your flailing all the more pathetic, even I feel sorry for you .

Please don't make me part of your homosexual dominatrix fantasies.

Your posting of invented definitions neither proves your point or disproves an argument I've made. You are welcome to attempt to do so; otherwise, I'd stop while I wasn't too far behind if I were you.

 

[Kalam]

But if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the wrongdoers.

Define that Final Word...



peace...

That's what I've been doing, numbnuts.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

And what, exactly, does that change about what I posted?

It doesn't, I dont wish to ever change what you say.

What I post, illuminates your ridicules positions and flailing attempts to habilitate Ilsam .

Al fasad: Corruption, What happens when one disobeys allah
Al Munkar: all that Islam has forbidden
Al fitnah:Virtually anything a muslim doesnt like tempts or frightens or makes a muslim uncomfortable or allah doesnt like Munkar Zulm al fasad [URL="http://www.islam-qa.com/en/search2/kufr/AllWords/t,q,a"]kufar[/URL] etc.

Of course you cannot see any connection or see how they are all entrenched and intertwined in Islamic thought.

This is the willful blindness on your part that makes your success as my tool obvious, and your flailing all the more pathetic, even I feel sorry for you .

Please don't make me part of your homosexual dominatrix fantasies.

Your posting of invented definitions neither proves your point or disproves an argument I've made. You are welcome to attempt to do so; otherwise, I'd stop while I wasn't too far behind if I were you.

Your "arguments" disprove themselves upon submission, they evaporate under the strain of logical fallacies and puerile evasion.
You cannot prove that I do not present not an accurate interpretation of Islamic thought.
You cannot prove non muslims are innocent using Islamic scripture .

You can try to cloud that issue with straw man augments and logical fallacies .

Many muslims like to say "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please prove unequivocally that none muslims are innocent using Islamic scripture.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

But if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the wrongdoers.

Define that Final Word...



peace...

That's what I've been doing, numbnuts.

Explain how it is not wrong to disbelieve , and how it is not a violation of the "rights of allah"
using Islamic scripture.
6:21
Who doth greater wrong than he who inventeth a lie against Allah or denieth His revelations ? Lo! the wrongdoers will not be successful.
6:21
Who is more evil than one who lies about GOD, or rejects His revelations? The transgressors never succeed.

 

[Kalam]

Explain how it is not wrong to disbelieve ,

It is wrong to disbelieve. Disbelief, however, is not a criminal offense.

and how it is not a violation of the "rights of allah"

"Rights of Allah (SWT)" is an improper phrase. Humankind's obligation to Allah (SWT) involves worshiping him; those who neglect their duty will answer to Him and Him alone.

using Islamic scripture.
6:21

The oppressors described in 6:21 are those who prevent Muslims from freely practicing their religion.

And they forbid (others) from it, and they keep away from it; and they ruin none but their own souls while they perceive not. - 6:26​

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Explain how it is not wrong to disbelieve ,

It is wrong to disbelieve. Disbelief, however, is not a criminal offense.

In your opinion, not in the opinion of scholars .

2:193 And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is professed only for ALLAH. But if they desist, then remember that no hostility is allowed except against the wrongdoers.

2:193 And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

2:193 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers

2:193 You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors.

2:193 193. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)

 

[Kalam]

In your opinion, not in the opinion of scholars .

IslamOnline.net- Islamic News, Shari'ah, Society, Family, Culture, Science, Youth, and Health
Ali Gomaa - Grand Mufti of Egypt
Supreme Council for Islamic Affairs

Take your pick.

2:193 And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is professed only for ALLAH. But if they desist, then remember that no hostility is allowed except against the wrongdoers.

And fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you but do not transgress. Surely Allah loves not the aggressors. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out of where they drove you out, and fitnah is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it; so if they fight you, slay them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is only for Allah. But if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the wrongdoers. The sacred month for the sacred month, and retaliation in sacred things. Whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you and keep your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty. - 2:190-194​

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

In your opinion, not in the opinion of scholars .

IslamOnline.net- Islamic News, Shari'ah, Society, Family, Culture, Science, Youth, and Health
Ali Gomaa - Grand Mufti of Egypt
Supreme Council for Islamic Affairs

Take your pick.

2:193 And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is professed only for ALLAH. But if they desist, then remember that no hostility is allowed except against the wrongdoers.

And fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you but do not transgress. Surely Allah loves not the aggressors. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out of where they drove you out, and fitnah is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it; so if they fight you, slay them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is only for Allah. But if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the wrongdoers. The sacred month for the sacred month, and retaliation in sacred things. Whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you and keep your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty. - 2:190-194​

You cant help but to prove me right with "every breath" you take here..
There is nothing in your links to support your position.

 

[Kalam]

And fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you but do not transgress. Surely Allah loves not the aggressors. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out of where they drove you out, and fitnah is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it; so if they fight you, slay them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is only for Allah But if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the wrongdoers. The sacred month for the sacred month, and retaliation in sacred things. Whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you and keep your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty. - 2:190-194​

You cant help but to prove me right with "every breath" you take here..
There is nothing in your links to support your position.

You are hopeless. As for the websites, were you able to find anything on them that described disbelief as a crime?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

And fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you but do not transgress. Surely Allah loves not the aggressors. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out of where they drove you out, and fitnah is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it; so if they fight you, slay them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is only for Allah But if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the wrongdoers. The sacred month for the sacred month, and retaliation in sacred things. Whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you and keep your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty. - 2:190-194​

You cant help but to prove me right with "every breath" you take here..
There is nothing in your links to support your position.

You are hopeless. As for the websites, were you able to find anything on them that described disbelief as a crime?

The Quran does that nicely enough thanks.

2:254. O you who believe! Spend of that with which We have provided for you, before a Day comes when there will be no bargaining, nor friendship, nor intercession. And it is the disbelievers who are the Zâlimûn (wrong-doers, etc.).


2:193 And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is professed only for ALLAH. But if they desist, then remember that no hostility is allowed except against the wrongdoers.

2:193 And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

2:193 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers

2:193 You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors.

2:193 193. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)



Is there an Arabic word for these oppressors ?

The Noble Quran's Search Results:

Seems there is little doubt as to the use of the word oppressor in this verse.
In the Arabic the word is Zâlimûn
Polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust.

The Noble Quran's Search Results:

Apparently the same arabic word is used to describe oppresors in 2:193 and 2:254

Quraan Transliteration

That means disbelief is oppresion

 

[Kalam]

The Quran does that nicely enough thanks.

You're the one who brought up scholars, Newton.

I agree. That's why I posted your favorite passages in their proper contexts.

And fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you but do not transgress. Surely Allah loves not the aggressors. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out of where they drove you out, and fitnah is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it; so if they fight you, slay them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is only for Allah. But if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the wrongdoers. The sacred month for the sacred month, and retaliation in sacred things. Whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you and keep your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty. - 2:190-194

O you who believe, spend out of what We have given you before the day comes in which there is no bargaining, nor friendship, nor intercession. And the disbelievers -- they are the wrongdoers. Allah -- there is no god but He, the Ever-living, the Self-subsisting by Whom all subsist. Slumber overtakes Him not, nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him but by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them. And they encompass nothing of His knowledge except what He pleases. His knowledge extends over the heavens and the earth, and the preservation of them both tires Him not. And He is the Most High, the Great. There is no compulsion in religion -- the right way is indeed clearly distinct from error. So whoever disbelieves in the devil and believes in Allah, he indeed lays hold on the firmest handle which shall never break. And Allah is Hearing, Knowing. Allah is the Friend of those who believe -- He brings them out of darkness into light. And those who disbelieve, their friends are the devils who take them out of light into darkness. They are the companions of the Fire; therein they abide. - 2:54-256
​

That means disbelief is oppresion

Unfortunately for you, repeating a (misspelled) falsehood ad nauseam doesn't make it true.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is only for Allah..

Misspelled or not it deserves repeating .
Your claim of falsehood ,refuted by your own posts.
there can be no peace with Islam if one wishes to not be a muslim.


Is there an Arabic word for these oppressors ?

The Noble Quran's Search Results:

Seems there is little doubt as to the use of the word oppressor in this verse.
In the Arabic the word is Zâlimûn
Polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust.

The Noble Quran's Search Results:

Apparently the same arabic word is used to describe oppresors in 2:193 and 2:254

Quraan Transliteration

That means disbelief is oppression

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is only for Allah..

Misspelled or not it deserves repeating .
Your claim of falsehood ,refuted by your own posts.
there can be no peace with Islam if one wishes to not be a muslim.


Is there an Arabic word for these oppressors ?

The Noble Quran's Search Results:

Seems there is little doubt as to the use of the word oppressor in this verse.
In the Arabic the word is Zâlimûn
Polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust.

The Noble Quran's Search Results:

Apparently the same arabic word is used to describe oppresors in 2:193 and 2:254

Quraan Transliteration

That means disbelief is oppression

 

[Kalam]

Never mind that the passage specifically enjoins Muslims to attack those who have attacked them, or that it commands us to "inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you," you've honed in on a belligerent-sounding sentence and by God you're sticking with it! Context be damned!