Nice people can choose to reject god and go to hell

[BreezeWood]

Nice people can choose to reject god and go to hell


... there is no hell - or


Nice people can choose to reject the Bible, and go in happiness to the OuterWorld of the Everlasting.

1. if you define hell to be "spiritual suffering" then yes there is hell to various degrees.

Nice people can choose to reject god and go to hell



the proper interpretation is to accomplish Remission while alive on earth before the last breath of the Physiological form expires - sent there by God.


no, in the least they would have to become evil and then will simply perish with their last breath ...

there is no hell in the OuterWorld of the Everlasting - that is the meaning of the Almighty - Satan is "Dead".

 

[numan]

'
They do run on and on, don't they, Emily?

Of course, perhaps I should remove the beam from my own eye before saying that, eh? · ·
.

 

[Gadawg73]

'
It is the Last Judgment. God stands before the Pearly Gates dividing
the people into two groups. To the group on His right He says, "Oh,
My true and faithful Atheists, well done! I created the world without
any evidence of My existence; indeed, all the evidence led in the
opposite direction! I gave mankind the god-like power of reason, and
you, noble atheists, used that gift properly and courageously! The
false promises of religion did not mislead you; you resisted the lure
of fables backed by Authority; childish hopes of comfort and
salvation did not deter you from uncompromisingly following the path
of reason, as you saw it, to its final conclusions. Even ridicule,
discrimination and persecution did not daunt you; the talents which I
gave you, you used and increased. For your intelligence and courage,
for your ability to reject folly and seek wisdom -- Welcome! Enter
into Eternal Glory!"

Then God turns to the group on His left and says, "You religious
fools! You infantile cowards! Through fear you refused to grow up and
become adults. You clung to fables and just-so stories. You were
unwilling to exercise the intelligence which I gave you as my most
priceless gift! No absurdity was too great, no fairy tale too
outrageous, provided it gave you childish comfort and the vain hope
that no matter what crimes you committed, some Outside Power would
reach down and save your unworthy butts! You have wasted and
corrupted My gifts! My universe has no place for such as you; I
reject you utterly! Into the Lake of Eternal Fire with you, and be
consumed!
.

Most all the atheists I know are hard core conservatives.
Recent history of the GOP is the hijacking of the party by the storm trooper religious right.
Around the end of the Reagan Presidency where they tried to get Pat Robertson elected as President.
Scary shit there Moe.
Recent events at the polls have the younger generation of the GOP running them off for good.
Good riddance.

 

[Gadawg73]

So a mass murderer that kidnapped 3 year old girls, gouges their eyes out and makes lamp shades out of their skin gets arrested and 4 seconds before the lethal injection gets "saved".
And he goes to heaven like nothing happened.
No fucking way.

 

[edthecynic]

So a mass murderer that kidnapped 3 year old girls, gouges their eyes out and makes lamp shades out of their skin gets arrested and 4 seconds before the lethal injection gets "saved".
And he goes to heaven like nothing happened.
No fucking way.

Just like the "good" thief!

 

[Agit8r]

From an ethical standpoint, it makes no difference, unless those who believe that treat the supposed hell-bound differently.

 

[tipofthespear]

So a mass murderer that kidnapped 3 year old girls, gouges their eyes out and makes lamp shades out of their skin gets arrested and 4 seconds before the lethal injection gets "saved".
And he goes to heaven like nothing happened.
No fucking way.

I don't know what others have offered concerning this comment, but as a Christian I firmly agree with your assessment if not your choice of language......

Such an individual that could commit crimes so heinous usually is far past the point of "redemption," and because of that is beyond salvation regardless of how long they beg. A person can reach such a point in their disobedience of God that He will turn them over to their evil ways, and when that happens salvation is no longer possible for them.

And, lest we forget, on several occasions Jesus clearly warned that those who harm little children will face a far greater punishment than all others......

So, in my opinion, NO, such a person DOES NOT go to Heaven.

 

[Dajjal]

So a mass murderer that kidnapped 3 year old girls, gouges their eyes out and makes lamp shades out of their skin gets arrested and 4 seconds before the lethal injection gets "saved".
And he goes to heaven like nothing happened.
No fucking way.

According to the theory of reincarnation and karma, such a person would suffer in a similar way in future lives.

 

[numan]

So a mass murderer that kidnapped 3 year old girls, gouges their eyes out and makes lamp shades out of their skin gets arrested and 4 seconds before the lethal injection gets "saved".
And he goes to heaven like nothing happened.
No fucking way.

According to the theory of reincarnation and karma, such a person would suffer in a similar way in future lives.

Perhaps he is re-born as his very self, over and over, until he changes the time-line of history -- similar to the movie Groundhog Day.
.

 

[FA_Q2]

Matthew 25 (the final judgment) begs to differ with your bold claims. I also hate to say it this way, but I think you cheapen the gift of salvation to the extreme.

Of course I disagree with other doctrines you must maintain, such as heaven or hell awaits the soul the moment of death. Maybe…. maybe not. Purgatory awaits uncountable unaware masses, hopefully me too. Too many protestant theologies give themselves far too much credit expecting a direct flight to paradise. (that being my opinion and in the teaching of the Cathoic Church).

Finally, I read too many judgments in your definitive understandings of what our Lord is teaching us through Scripture. It is not one size fits all. Just because someone never knew Jesus does not mean they are not still allowed into heaven through Jesus. I caution you for ever thinking otherwise.

But where si such a concept supported in scripture? AFAIK, the ONE way to heaven is through Jesus and if you do not accept him as your savior you simply are not going to heaven. It is one of the major problems that I have with Christianity as a whole: the gaping hole of what happened to the billions before Jesus, to the billions that live in nations where the possibility of Jesus has been removed from the nation so that there are many that have zero chance to ever even see a bible much less learn about Jesus and finally those that are too young to ever get a chance to accept him. All of these people, far more than those that are even exposed to Jesus, never have a chance to accept him as a savior so they must go to hell? That seems unjust and certainly does not allow for a being that ‘loves’ them. I have not seen scripture that supports the idea that they also have the opportunity to go to heaven.

 

[tipofthespear]

So a mass murderer that kidnapped 3 year old girls, gouges their eyes out and makes lamp shades out of their skin gets arrested and 4 seconds before the lethal injection gets "saved".
And he goes to heaven like nothing happened.
No fucking way.

According to the theory of reincarnation and karma, such a person would suffer in a similar way in future lives.

Perhaps he is re-born as his very self, over and over, until he changes the time-line of history -- similar to the movie Groundhog Day.
.

Humorous to a point, but a true atheist wouldn't joke of such a thing. For to entertain the idea/concept that there is "something" beyond this present life is against all things atheist.

 

[tipofthespear]

Matthew 25 (the final judgment) begs to differ with your bold claims. I also hate to say it this way, but I think you cheapen the gift of salvation to the extreme.

Of course I disagree with other doctrines you must maintain, such as heaven or hell awaits the soul the moment of death. Maybe…. maybe not. Purgatory awaits uncountable unaware masses, hopefully me too. Too many protestant theologies give themselves far too much credit expecting a direct flight to paradise. (that being my opinion and in the teaching of the Cathoic Church).

Finally, I read too many judgments in your definitive understandings of what our Lord is teaching us through Scripture. It is not one size fits all. Just because someone never knew Jesus does not mean they are not still allowed into heaven through Jesus. I caution you for ever thinking otherwise.

But where si such a concept supported in scripture? AFAIK, the ONE way to heaven is through Jesus and if you do not accept him as your savior you simply are not going to heaven. It is one of the major problems that I have with Christianity as a whole: the gaping hole of what happened to the billions before Jesus, to the billions that live in nations where the possibility of Jesus has been removed from the nation so that there are many that have zero chance to ever even see a bible much less learn about Jesus and finally those that are too young to ever get a chance to accept him. All of these people, far more than those that are even exposed to Jesus, never have a chance to accept him as a savior so they must go to hell? That seems unjust and certainly does not allow for a being that ‘loves’ them. I have not seen scripture that supports the idea that they also have the opportunity to go to heaven.

If you would actually STUDY Scripture before denouncing it, you would discover that there is no such "gaping hole." Every question you have raised in this comment is covered in Scripture.........try actually reading the Bible, and seeking understanding of it prior to denouncing it. God is a Just God, and were you more versed in Scripture, you would never have speculated such commentary as you posted.

 

[emilynghiem]

you are spot on...........and the other poster is correct in saying that much debate/division is caused by the Theological argument of Grace vs. Works.............people must search the Scriptures and understand that "works" are a fruit of "Grace." Grace/salvation is freely given by God, and what transpires afterwards (our works) are what we do in obedience to His Commandments...........Your comments were excellent.......

Thank you, Tip
I give credit to the senior pastor Moore at the Christ the King Lutheran church for using the symbol of the cross and the two bars to explain the difference between the two relationships (both joined as one in Christ as the center of the cross). that made so much sense to me, I explain to to both believers and gentiles, so it is clear that both the Belivers governed by spiritual laws of scripture and the nontheists under natural laws and civil laws of secular gentiles are included in the process; though they remain separate with distinct laws, both fulfilled in making peace through the spirit of Christ Jesus or restorative justice.

Explaining that these two realms are not in conflict, it is not either/or, but both included helps alleviate the divisive bickering and calls for mutual forgiveness on both sides.

Hi Professor. It is both. The key is to distinguish and not confuse the two.
1. first is the free and unconditional grace and salvation from God through Christ that does NOT depend on earned conditions, but is the natural consequence given freely
as long as people ASK help to FORGIVE. we must ask by free will, this spiritual forgiveness can never be forced on people but must be chosen FREELY otherwise it is not sincere if forgiveness is not true but forced on people that is impossible. so this is one level.
2. the other level is where Christ fulfills justice in man's relations with neighbors.
so THIS is where the works and debts are held to account by people's words and actions.
there is restitution required in order to restore justice after wrongdoing. this is a different level, between man and man, normally governed by civil or secular laws.

do NOT mix up the two
just because spiritual grace and salvation have no price and are given freely for the askign and can never be earned or paid back only paid forward by helping others to be freed

does NOT mean
that any restitution or corrections we owed to each other as neighbors in society
is magically forgiven

these are two different levels.
after we forgive and our relations are saved in Christ
then we still work out the terms of corrections and restitution to achieve
justice in the social and physical realms.

And just because we owe for debts and damages
does NOT mean we are doing this to earn salvation.
the works FOLLOW from the faith, they are motivated by
the love and grace of God, but they are not conditions on receiving salvation.

the works follow naturally and are required for earthly justice.
God's spiritual justice is above all things and can never be earned by what we do.
these two are separate.
Christ fulfills both as the center of the cross
joining man and man as symbolized by the horizontal bar
and joining man and God as symbolized by the vertical bar

we earn forgiveness and justice by works under man's laws on the earthly level
but God's spiritual grace and forgiveness is on a higher level given freely and not earned

This issue is about as challenging to explain the difference
as the misperceptions of "forgiveness" in general -- that just because we "forgive" things to let go of the anger and emotions, does NOT mean we tolerate, condone or enable the wrongs; they are still wrong and require correction and restitution, even after we 'forgive'.

The hard part to understand is
why does the forgiveness have to happen first -- so we can clear our minds from negative emotions to focus effectively on these corrections, to restore justice and good working relations AFTER we forgive. this is often counter-intuitive to forgive first and correct afterwards; where social norms would say to correct the problem first and earn forgiveness after proving that you are sincere and not just saying that to go and do the wrongs again. sometimees the corrections cannot even take place until after the forgiveness and healing happens first. so it takes a leap of faith to forgive first.

it is harder to explain in advance, but easier to see in hindsight AFTER receiving the healing of forgiveness; then you can look back and understand the process.

trying to explain it to people who have been so hurt, betrayed and injured, when the mind hasn't forgiven yet and let go, the emotions get in the way. it is a miracle we can communicate and explain these things at all!

but I see more and more secular and spiritual studies and approaches to teaching forgiveness and recovery, where this message and process is being shared in different ways where people can understand it from their own experiences; and once people understand the process, they help others around them so the healing multiplies.

what i hope people will gain from this, is understanding that this global healing and correction process, to break the cycle of abuse and save relationships from conflict and suffering, IS collectively what the grace and salvation in Christ Jesus represents. that even the secular gentiles and nontheists who don't believe in religion go through this process, as it is universal for all humanity. when we realize all our relations are included, then there is more motivation to forgive and resolve all conflicts so we can all be at peace.

ironically this realization comes WITH the forgiveness, so the more we forgive the more we see how all things are connected and we are not to be divided against our neighbors, no matter how religiously or politically different we are, we are all included in salvation. And anything that would otherwise divide or condemn us, is required to be resolved. Wow!

 

[emilynghiem]

Matthew 25 (the final judgment) begs to differ with your bold claims. I also hate to say it this way, but I think you cheapen the gift of salvation to the extreme.

Of course I disagree with other doctrines you must maintain, such as heaven or hell awaits the soul the moment of death. Maybe…. maybe not. Purgatory awaits uncountable unaware masses, hopefully me too. Too many protestant theologies give themselves far too much credit expecting a direct flight to paradise. (that being my opinion and in the teaching of the Cathoic Church).

Finally, I read too many judgments in your definitive understandings of what our Lord is teaching us through Scripture. It is not one size fits all. Just because someone never knew Jesus does not mean they are not still allowed into heaven through Jesus. I caution you for ever thinking otherwise.

But where si such a concept supported in scripture? AFAIK, the ONE way to heaven is through Jesus and if you do not accept him as your savior you simply are not going to heaven. It is one of the major problems that I have with Christianity as a whole: the gaping hole of what happened to the billions before Jesus, to the billions that live in nations where the possibility of Jesus has been removed from the nation so that there are many that have zero chance to ever even see a bible much less learn about Jesus and finally those that are too young to ever get a chance to accept him. All of these people, far more than those that are even exposed to Jesus, never have a chance to accept him as a savior so they must go to hell? That seems unjust and certainly does not allow for a being that ‘loves’ them. I have not seen scripture that supports the idea that they also have the opportunity to go to heaven.

Hi FAQ2: i agree there is a "gap" or "gaping hole" but it is more in how Jesus/the Bible is taught, while the grace and unity with God through Christ BY DEFINITION must be "universal" and inclusive of ALL people in order to be true, otherwise Jesus cannot be the Messiah/Message/saving grace of "all humanity"

I AGREE with you something is sorely missing in how jesus/christianity is taught if it is unforgiving and leaves out half of humanity. you might want to read Carlton pearson's "Gospel of Inclusion" where he explains his understnading of universal salvation as a valid interpretation of the Bible and Christianity. [My interpretation/understanding is even more inclusive than his, because he leaves out hell, and my interpretation includes that as well but we both agree on the same conclusion that universal salvation by definition of God's will include all people in order to be perfect and all powerful.]

What is missing is Christians are not teaching that Jesus/Justice
fulfills the secular/natural laws EQUALLY as the scriptural laws,
so that nontheists who are under natural laws (including Buddhism,
civil laws, constitutional laws, science, psychology etc) are also
included in salvation where we receive the SAME spirit of truth/justice
that God/Jesus represent.

All the people I know, whether believers or nontheists, have a natural
snese of truth and justice which joins us by Conscience, so this is the
meaning of being joined in Christ by agreement on that unifying truth.

So this process of establishing agreement on truth for sake of justice
IS the same process of reconciling with God through Christ. it is just
done using secular terms and laws when dealing with the Gentiles.

in the bible, Jesus mentions he governs the gentiles as a separate
fold of the same flock and in Christ Jesus there is no jew or gentile
but all are one. so christ jesus fulfills BOTH paths, both the beleivers
under sacred scripture and the gentiles under natural laws. Jesus
was both of God and of man, fulfilling both levels of the laws and reconciling them
in spiritual accord. So where we agree by Conscience or by Christ,
that is where we establish God's universal truth, even if you call it logic or science,
whatever system you use to explain and justify what is true and right, jesus
represents the spirit of justice that fulfills that law or system of expressing right and wrong, true and false, etc.

so gentiles are included in salvation through jesus.
all you do is seek truth and justice, by forgiveness and inclusion of all humanity, not by retribution and rejection or judgment of others, and this is the path of righteousness
that very few shall find. very few seek reconciliation and inclusion of all paths, but most seek the selfish path of destruction by judging other people as wrong which leads to war.

the level of forgiveness it takes the human mind to let go of all our prejudices and grievances against other people or groups who have done wrong is so high,
that is why this is symbolized as divine grace from God through Christ, as something so beyond human ability to understand and forgive that we have to let go and let this higher truth and higher love intervene where we as humans cannot let go and forgive our hurt and anger and fear of each other based on the past experiences and suffering we hold to.

So this is why Christianity calls for us to ask for that divine help with forgiveness to let go.
all people go through this process and finally have to let go because we can't solve the worlds' problems by ourselves. at some point we have to let go and trust the process of justice to work itself out by the goodness of humanity that is stronger than the evil and wrong in teh world. so this is where the divine forgiveness comes into play, that both the secular and the spiritual counselors teach as necessary for recovery and function.

so this is what it means to call on God and Jesus, it is just that nontheists go through this process in another way, such as letting go and focusing on objective points of agreement or correction in the process of resolving issues by the "love of truth". it is still the same process. the bible represents this spiritual process for all humanity, and all people go through it whether we use science, psychology or secular/political laws to explain and define the process of achieving universal justice and truth.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

So a mass murderer that kidnapped 3 year old girls, gouges their eyes out and makes lamp shades out of their skin gets arrested and 4 seconds before the lethal injection gets "saved".
And he goes to heaven like nothing happened.
No fucking way.

Yes they do if they repent and accept Jesus as their Savior.

No sin is greater or lesser than another.

 

[emilynghiem]

Matthew 25 (the final judgment) begs to differ with your bold claims. I also hate to say it this way, but I think you cheapen the gift of salvation to the extreme.

Of course I disagree with other doctrines you must maintain, such as heaven or hell awaits the soul the moment of death. Maybe…. maybe not. Purgatory awaits uncountable unaware masses, hopefully me too. Too many protestant theologies give themselves far too much credit expecting a direct flight to paradise. (that being my opinion and in the teaching of the Cathoic Church).

Finally, I read too many judgments in your definitive understandings of what our Lord is teaching us through Scripture. It is not one size fits all. Just because someone never knew Jesus does not mean they are not still allowed into heaven through Jesus. I caution you for ever thinking otherwise.

But where si such a concept supported in scripture? AFAIK, the ONE way to heaven is through Jesus and if you do not accept him as your savior you simply are not going to heaven. It is one of the major problems that I have with Christianity as a whole: the gaping hole of what happened to the billions before Jesus, to the billions that live in nations where the possibility of Jesus has been removed from the nation so that there are many that have zero chance to ever even see a bible much less learn about Jesus and finally those that are too young to ever get a chance to accept him. All of these people, far more than those that are even exposed to Jesus, never have a chance to accept him as a savior so they must go to hell? That seems unjust and certainly does not allow for a being that ‘loves’ them. I have not seen scripture that supports the idea that they also have the opportunity to go to heaven.

P.S. if you want an easier interpretation of how the Bible justifies universal salvation, I do recommend Carlton Pearson's Gospel of Inclusion, although I DISAGREE with him when he says there is no hell; just because hell is overcome does not mean it never existed.

however, if you want a deeper explanation of how can there be salvation even for souls who did not receive knowledge or contact with anything to do with Christ Jesus "within their lifetime"; then I'd recommend studying both the Buddist teachings of karma reincarnated or Christian teachings of generational curses passed down from one generation to the next until the cycle of sin or karma is broken. This would explain how the sin/karma remains and causes hellish suffering until there is finally forgiveness to break the cycle as represented in Christ Jesus; so wherever this forgiveness occurs in time, those sins are finally resolved and the souls are set free from the enslavement of unforgivness and suffering. this forgiveness process transcends the time/space continuum and is independent of linear cause and effect. most people cannot handle this level of spiritual understanding, so I would recommend the easier path and just go with Pearson's simple Bible explanation if you cannot deal with the transcendent idea of Christ's forgiveness going backwards and forwards in time and healing all of humanity regardless of where the sins occurred, as long as at some point people agree to receive forgiveness.

 

[emilynghiem]

So a mass murderer that kidnapped 3 year old girls, gouges their eyes out and makes lamp shades out of their skin gets arrested and 4 seconds before the lethal injection gets "saved".
And he goes to heaven like nothing happened.
No fucking way.

Yes they do if they repent and accept Jesus as their Savior.

No sin is greater or lesser than another.

I think what Gadawg needs to hear is that while the sins are forgiven spiritually,
YES there will be accountability for the crimes on earth as well.

As we move toward a more effective system of Restorative Justice, more criminal illness
can be treated and managed, where I recommend that restitution be enforced; so this compels people and families to get help early, and report criminal illness or acts BEFORE they get worse; so the less severe or less repeat offenses, the less restitution is owed.

so there will be reforms in the criminal justice system toward prevention, correction and restitution by IMPLEMENTING the concepts in Christianity of Restorative Justice. the healing authority of Christ can cure physical mental and criminal illness, caused by spiritual sickness that forgiveness can alleviate or remove, so one day sick people will get help BEFORE committing heinous crimes that can be prevented by earlier intervention.

So yes, there will be justice for all crime victims, but it will come AFTER these crimes are forgiven spiritually first, in order to unit and collaborate on physical and legal solutions to diagnose, treat and detain criminal illness so we don't have any more such injustice.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Matthew 25 (the final judgment) begs to differ with your bold claims. I also hate to say it this way, but I think you cheapen the gift of salvation to the extreme.

Of course I disagree with other doctrines you must maintain, such as heaven or hell awaits the soul the moment of death. Maybe…. maybe not. Purgatory awaits uncountable unaware masses, hopefully me too. Too many protestant theologies give themselves far too much credit expecting a direct flight to paradise. (that being my opinion and in the teaching of the Cathoic Church).

Finally, I read too many judgments in your definitive understandings of what our Lord is teaching us through Scripture. It is not one size fits all. Just because someone never knew Jesus does not mean they are not still allowed into heaven through Jesus. I caution you for ever thinking otherwise.

But where si such a concept supported in scripture? AFAIK, the ONE way to heaven is through Jesus and if you do not accept him as your savior you simply are not going to heaven. It is one of the major problems that I have with Christianity as a whole: the gaping hole of what happened to the billions before Jesus, to the billions that live in nations where the possibility of Jesus has been removed from the nation so that there are many that have zero chance to ever even see a bible much less learn about Jesus and finally those that are too young to ever get a chance to accept him. All of these people, far more than those that are even exposed to Jesus, never have a chance to accept him as a savior so they must go to hell? That seems unjust and certainly does not allow for a being that ‘loves’ them. I have not seen scripture that supports the idea that they also have the opportunity to go to heaven.

The answers to all your questions are in the Bible.

The Bible says, "The truth about God is known to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in their hearts. From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God" (Romans 1:19-20, New Living Translation).

 

[Lonestar_logic]

So a mass murderer that kidnapped 3 year old girls, gouges their eyes out and makes lamp shades out of their skin gets arrested and 4 seconds before the lethal injection gets "saved".
And he goes to heaven like nothing happened.
No fucking way.

Yes they do if they repent and accept Jesus as their Savior.

No sin is greater or lesser than another.

I think what Gadawg needs to hear is that while the sins are forgiven spiritually,
YES there will be accountability for the crimes on earth as well.

As we move toward a more effective system of Restorative Justice, more criminal illness
can be treated and managed, where I recommend that restitution be enforced; so this compels people and families to get help early, and report criminal illness or acts BEFORE they get worse; so the less severe or less repeat offenses, the less restitution is owed.

so there will be reforms in the criminal justice system toward prevention, correction and restitution by IMPLEMENTING the concepts in Christianity of Restorative Justice. the healing authority of Christ can cure physical mental and criminal illness, caused by spiritual sickness that forgiveness can alleviate or remove, so one day sick people will get help BEFORE committing heinous crimes that can be prevented by earlier intervention.

So yes, there will be justice for all crime victims, but it will come AFTER these crimes are forgiven spiritually first, in order to unit and collaborate on physical and legal solutions to diagnose, treat and detain criminal illness so we don't have any more such injustice.

I agree we will be judged accordingly not only here on earth but also when we meet our Maker. I had the impression that he didn't believe such a person could ever go to Heaven.

 

[Gadawg73]

Yes they do if they repent and accept Jesus as their Savior.

No sin is greater or lesser than another.

I think what Gadawg needs to hear is that while the sins are forgiven spiritually,
YES there will be accountability for the crimes on earth as well.

As we move toward a more effective system of Restorative Justice, more criminal illness
can be treated and managed, where I recommend that restitution be enforced; so this compels people and families to get help early, and report criminal illness or acts BEFORE they get worse; so the less severe or less repeat offenses, the less restitution is owed.

so there will be reforms in the criminal justice system toward prevention, correction and restitution by IMPLEMENTING the concepts in Christianity of Restorative Justice. the healing authority of Christ can cure physical mental and criminal illness, caused by spiritual sickness that forgiveness can alleviate or remove, so one day sick people will get help BEFORE committing heinous crimes that can be prevented by earlier intervention.

So yes, there will be justice for all crime victims, but it will come AFTER these crimes are forgiven spiritually first, in order to unit and collaborate on physical and legal solutions to diagnose, treat and detain criminal illness so we don't have any more such injustice.

I agree we will be judged accordingly not only here on earth but also when we meet our Maker. I had the impression that he didn't believe such a person could ever go to Heaven.

I don't believe God will allow them into heaven.