Nice people can choose to reject god and go to hell

[Gadawg73]

Then you are not a Christian.

As Jesus was on the cross he was in between two thieves being crucified for their crimes (Luke 23: 32-43) one of them said to Jesus, "Remember me when thou comest in thy kingdom", and Jesus said to him: "Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in Paradise".

All it took was for that thief to believe in Jesus to join Him in Heaven.

As it states in Romans 3:23, well all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God and it doesn't matter how long it takes you to ask for forgiveness and repent or how many times you do so, you will always be forgiven.

MATTHEW 18 : 21 Then Peter came up and said to him: “Lord, how many times is my brother to sin against me and am I to forgive him? Up to seven times?” 22 Jesus said to him: “I say to you, not, Up to seven times, but, Up to seventy-seven times. (INDICATING UNLIMITED FORGIVENESS)

Jesus reminds us on more than one occasion that only to the extent we forgive others will we ourselves be forgiven (Matthew 6:12-15; 18:35; Luke 6:37).

Forgiving is not the subject here. One of the greatest things about the Bible is the lessons on forgiveness. Forgiveness is a hard thing to do but I practice it and it is such a great lesson from a book of many great lessons in life. Forgiving allows YOU to get rid of that and throw that burden away. Such a great lesson!
But that is not what we are speaking of here. We are talking about being saved and accepting Jesus.
You can claim I am not a Christian and fine with me but the great book the Bible also teaches to not judge. That is the problem with Christians today. "I am right and you are wrong." I hear from many of my friends "Catholics are not Christians".Such an absurd argument as Catholics were THE FIRST Christians and I am not Catholic.
Those stories in the Bible were told to bring everyone to Christ as many Romans had done dastardly deeds and believed that no way, no how could they ever get into heaven.
But I respect your opinion as I do all others and I do not believe you are not a Christian for having a different opinion.
As there are how many Christian denominations with various opinions out there?
And we better not start calling each other "not Christian" if others have different views.
That diversity of Christianity has made this nation strong and separates us from most all other religions, specifically Muslim where Sunni and Shia kill each other over doctrine.

Acts 13:38-39

For man to appreciate forgiveness he must understand what life and eternity would be without it.

◦Without forgiveness there would be no entry into heaven.
◦Without forgiveness every funeral service would be a prelude to hell.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no knowledge of love.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no hope for any person.
◦Without forgiveness all would be lost.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no mercy.
◦Without forgiveness there would be innumerable suicides.
◦Without forgiveness there would be unremovable guilt.

FORGIVENESS

I am not judging you. I am telling you that you are not a Christian if you don't believe that all can be forgiven for their sins. And if they accept Jesus as their Savior they will be able to join Him in Heaven.

Catholics believe in purgatory. Show me where in the Bible does it reference purgatory.

You claim Catholics were the first Christians. Please link to that nonsense.

You can certainly believe what you wish but to be a Christian you must believe what Christ has taught us.

Jesus accepted all thought. He was a Jew.
The Jewish rabbis labeled Jesus as not being Jewish enough because of his rejection of a one size fits all Jewish religion.
Christianity started after Jesus' death. Christ taught us to be Christlike which is to love thy neighbor and treat them as equals.
Catholics held the first Christian church and were the first to practice Christianity as a religion.

 

[numan]

Atheists will not be judged at all because they have no chance of going to Heaven. They have a ticket straight to hell.

What!! You mean we are going to Texas!!

No!! Dear God!! Anything but that !!!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...-reject-god-and-go-to-hell-3.html#post7254558

Obviously you've never been here.

Oh, I've been there!
People seem even more roboticized in Texas than elsewhere in the USA.

Some traces of civilization seem to cling precariously only to the seaboards of the Atlantic and Pacific. The dark interior of the continent is populated by barbarians and savages sunk in primitive violence and irrationality and weird superstitions and hysterical rituals.
.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Forgiving is not the subject here. One of the greatest things about the Bible is the lessons on forgiveness. Forgiveness is a hard thing to do but I practice it and it is such a great lesson from a book of many great lessons in life. Forgiving allows YOU to get rid of that and throw that burden away. Such a great lesson!
But that is not what we are speaking of here. We are talking about being saved and accepting Jesus.
You can claim I am not a Christian and fine with me but the great book the Bible also teaches to not judge. That is the problem with Christians today. "I am right and you are wrong." I hear from many of my friends "Catholics are not Christians".Such an absurd argument as Catholics were THE FIRST Christians and I am not Catholic.
Those stories in the Bible were told to bring everyone to Christ as many Romans had done dastardly deeds and believed that no way, no how could they ever get into heaven.
But I respect your opinion as I do all others and I do not believe you are not a Christian for having a different opinion.
As there are how many Christian denominations with various opinions out there?
And we better not start calling each other "not Christian" if others have different views.
That diversity of Christianity has made this nation strong and separates us from most all other religions, specifically Muslim where Sunni and Shia kill each other over doctrine.

Acts 13:38-39

For man to appreciate forgiveness he must understand what life and eternity would be without it.

◦Without forgiveness there would be no entry into heaven.
◦Without forgiveness every funeral service would be a prelude to hell.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no knowledge of love.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no hope for any person.
◦Without forgiveness all would be lost.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no mercy.
◦Without forgiveness there would be innumerable suicides.
◦Without forgiveness there would be unremovable guilt.

FORGIVENESS

I am not judging you. I am telling you that you are not a Christian if you don't believe that all can be forgiven for their sins. And if they accept Jesus as their Savior they will be able to join Him in Heaven.

Catholics believe in purgatory. Show me where in the Bible does it reference purgatory.

You claim Catholics were the first Christians. Please link to that nonsense.

You can certainly believe what you wish but to be a Christian you must believe what Christ has taught us.

Jesus accepted all thought. He was a Jew.
The Jewish rabbis labeled Jesus as not being Jewish enough because of his rejection of a one size fits all Jewish religion.
Christianity started after Jesus' death. Christ taught us to be Christlike which is to love thy neighbor and treat them as equals.
Catholics held the first Christian church and were the first to practice Christianity as a religion.

I need more than just your word that Catholics were the first Christians.

How about some links that supports that silly idea?

And while you're at it link to where it mentions purgatory in the Bible. I noticed you dodged my last request.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

What!! You mean we are going to Texas!!

No!! Dear God!! Anything but that !!!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...-reject-god-and-go-to-hell-3.html#post7254558

Obviously you've never been here.

Oh, I've been there!
People seem even more roboticized in Texas than elsewhere in the USA.

Some traces of civilization seem to cling precariously only to the seaboards of the Atlantic and Pacific. The dark interior of the continent is populated by barbarians and savages sunk in primitive violence and irrationality and weird superstitions and hysterical rituals.
.

No you've never been here.

 

[Gadawg73]

Acts 13:38-39

For man to appreciate forgiveness he must understand what life and eternity would be without it.

◦Without forgiveness there would be no entry into heaven.
◦Without forgiveness every funeral service would be a prelude to hell.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no knowledge of love.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no hope for any person.
◦Without forgiveness all would be lost.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no mercy.
◦Without forgiveness there would be innumerable suicides.
◦Without forgiveness there would be unremovable guilt.

FORGIVENESS

I am not judging you. I am telling you that you are not a Christian if you don't believe that all can be forgiven for their sins. And if they accept Jesus as their Savior they will be able to join Him in Heaven.

Catholics believe in purgatory. Show me where in the Bible does it reference purgatory.

You claim Catholics were the first Christians. Please link to that nonsense.

You can certainly believe what you wish but to be a Christian you must believe what Christ has taught us.

Jesus accepted all thought. He was a Jew.
The Jewish rabbis labeled Jesus as not being Jewish enough because of his rejection of a one size fits all Jewish religion.
Christianity started after Jesus' death. Christ taught us to be Christlike which is to love thy neighbor and treat them as equals.
Catholics held the first Christian church and were the first to practice Christianity as a religion.

I need more than just your word that Catholics were the first Christians.

How about some links that supports that silly idea?

And while you're at it link to where it mentions purgatory in the Bible. I noticed you dodged my last request.

Where did I say anything about purgatory. Wasn't me.

 

[Gadawg73]

Acts 13:38-39

For man to appreciate forgiveness he must understand what life and eternity would be without it.

◦Without forgiveness there would be no entry into heaven.
◦Without forgiveness every funeral service would be a prelude to hell.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no knowledge of love.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no hope for any person.
◦Without forgiveness all would be lost.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no mercy.
◦Without forgiveness there would be innumerable suicides.
◦Without forgiveness there would be unremovable guilt.

FORGIVENESS

I am not judging you. I am telling you that you are not a Christian if you don't believe that all can be forgiven for their sins. And if they accept Jesus as their Savior they will be able to join Him in Heaven.

Catholics believe in purgatory. Show me where in the Bible does it reference purgatory.

You claim Catholics were the first Christians. Please link to that nonsense.

You can certainly believe what you wish but to be a Christian you must believe what Christ has taught us.

Jesus accepted all thought. He was a Jew.
The Jewish rabbis labeled Jesus as not being Jewish enough because of his rejection of a one size fits all Jewish religion.
Christianity started after Jesus' death. Christ taught us to be Christlike which is to love thy neighbor and treat them as equals.
Catholics held the first Christian church and were the first to practice Christianity as a religion.

I need more than just your word that Catholics were the first Christians.

How about some links that supports that silly idea?

And while you're at it link to where it mentions purgatory in the Bible. I noticed you dodged my last request.

Read Matthew 16 as that is what the Catholics believe.
Are you claiming that another Christian denomination is wrong?
Why? What evidence do you have that Jesus did not tell Peter to build his church and that was the start of the Catholic church?
Scripture says it and Catholics believe it. Why not respect their beliefs and we will respect yours?
Or are you the know it all I am the only one that knows the truth Christian?

 

[FA_Q2]

Then you are not a Christian.

As Jesus was on the cross he was in between two thieves being crucified for their crimes (Luke 23: 32-43) one of them said to Jesus, "Remember me when thou comest in thy kingdom", and Jesus said to him: "Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in Paradise".

All it took was for that thief to believe in Jesus to join Him in Heaven.

As it states in Romans 3:23, well all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God and it doesn't matter how long it takes you to ask for forgiveness and repent or how many times you do so, you will always be forgiven.

MATTHEW 18 : 21 Then Peter came up and said to him: “Lord, how many times is my brother to sin against me and am I to forgive him? Up to seven times?” 22 Jesus said to him: “I say to you, not, Up to seven times, but, Up to seventy-seven times. (INDICATING UNLIMITED FORGIVENESS)

Jesus reminds us on more than one occasion that only to the extent we forgive others will we ourselves be forgiven (Matthew 6:12-15; 18:35; Luke 6:37).

Forgiving is not the subject here. One of the greatest things about the Bible is the lessons on forgiveness. Forgiveness is a hard thing to do but I practice it and it is such a great lesson from a book of many great lessons in life. Forgiving allows YOU to get rid of that and throw that burden away. Such a great lesson!
But that is not what we are speaking of here. We are talking about being saved and accepting Jesus.
You can claim I am not a Christian and fine with me but the great book the Bible also teaches to not judge. That is the problem with Christians today. "I am right and you are wrong." I hear from many of my friends "Catholics are not Christians".Such an absurd argument as Catholics were THE FIRST Christians and I am not Catholic.
Those stories in the Bible were told to bring everyone to Christ as many Romans had done dastardly deeds and believed that no way, no how could they ever get into heaven.
But I respect your opinion as I do all others and I do not believe you are not a Christian for having a different opinion.
As there are how many Christian denominations with various opinions out there?
And we better not start calling each other "not Christian" if others have different views.
That diversity of Christianity has made this nation strong and separates us from most all other religions, specifically Muslim where Sunni and Shia kill each other over doctrine.

Acts 13:38-39

For man to appreciate forgiveness he must understand what life and eternity would be without it.

◦Without forgiveness there would be no entry into heaven.
◦Without forgiveness every funeral service would be a prelude to hell.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no knowledge of love.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no hope for any person.
◦Without forgiveness all would be lost.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no mercy.
◦Without forgiveness there would be innumerable suicides.
◦Without forgiveness there would be unremovable guilt.

FORGIVENESS

I am not judging you. I am telling you that you are not a Christian if you don't believe that all can be forgiven for their sins. And if they accept Jesus as their Savior they will be able to join Him in Heaven.

Catholics believe in purgatory. Show me where in the Bible does it reference purgatory.

You claim Catholics were the first Christians. Please link to that nonsense.

You can certainly believe what you wish but to be a Christian you must believe what Christ has taught us.

You have essentially stated that to be a Christian you must believe what YOU THINK Christ has taught us. No matter how sure of his teaching you are, no matter how right about those teaching you might be that is simply not true.

Your definition of ’Christian’ is incorrect. You are narrowly defining the term in a manner that reflects your faith. You might believe (and that would almost be a requirement of faith) that what you believe is correct and the other factions are misguided BUT that does not mean that they do not fall into the generally accepted definition of Christian. For one, you are interpreting Jesus words one way while other may read what was written differently. Because they read that differently does not mean that they are not Christian, even if they are incorrect it would not make them non-Christian.

All that is needed to be Christian is to believe in Jesus as savior. There are a million different factions (and Catholics really do fit in term though they tend to deny it) and even ones that have their own holy books. Mormons ARE Christians no matter how you other Christians might feel about that and regardless of the fact that they have an additional

 

[turzovka]

Forgiving is not the subject here. One of the greatest things about the Bible is the lessons on forgiveness. Forgiveness is a hard thing to do but I practice it and it is such a great lesson from a book of many great lessons in life. Forgiving allows YOU to get rid of that and throw that burden away. Such a great lesson!
But that is not what we are speaking of here. We are talking about being saved and accepting Jesus.
You can claim I am not a Christian and fine with me but the great book the Bible also teaches to not judge. That is the problem with Christians today. "I am right and you are wrong." I hear from many of my friends "Catholics are not Christians".Such an absurd argument as Catholics were THE FIRST Christians and I am not Catholic.
Those stories in the Bible were told to bring everyone to Christ as many Romans had done dastardly deeds and believed that no way, no how could they ever get into heaven.
But I respect your opinion as I do all others and I do not believe you are not a Christian for having a different opinion.
As there are how many Christian denominations with various opinions out there?
And we better not start calling each other "not Christian" if others have different views.
That diversity of Christianity has made this nation strong and separates us from most all other religions, specifically Muslim where Sunni and Shia kill each other over doctrine.

Acts 13:38-39

For man to appreciate forgiveness he must understand what life and eternity would be without it.

◦Without forgiveness there would be no entry into heaven.
◦Without forgiveness every funeral service would be a prelude to hell.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no knowledge of love.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no hope for any person.
◦Without forgiveness all would be lost.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no mercy.
◦Without forgiveness there would be innumerable suicides.
◦Without forgiveness there would be unremovable guilt.

FORGIVENESS

I am not judging you. I am telling you that you are not a Christian if you don't believe that all can be forgiven for their sins. And if they accept Jesus as their Savior they will be able to join Him in Heaven.

Catholics believe in purgatory. Show me where in the Bible does it reference purgatory.

You claim Catholics were the first Christians. Please link to that nonsense.

You can certainly believe what you wish but to be a Christian you must believe what Christ has taught us.

You have essentially stated that to be a Christian you must believe what YOU THINK Christ has taught us. No matter how sure of his teaching you are, no matter how right about those teaching you might be that is simply not true.

Your definition of ’Christian’ is incorrect. You are narrowly defining the term in a manner that reflects your faith. You might believe (and that would almost be a requirement of faith) that what you believe is correct and the other factions are misguided BUT that does not mean that they do not fall into the generally accepted definition of Christian. For one, you are interpreting Jesus words one way while other may read what was written differently. Because they read that differently does not mean that they are not Christian, even if they are incorrect it would not make them non-Christian.

All that is needed to be Christian is to believe in Jesus as savior. There are a million different factions (and Catholics really do fit in term though they tend to deny it) and even ones that have their own holy books. Mormons ARE Christians no matter how you other Christians might feel about that and regardless of the fact that they have an additional

You and I surely have real differences, but once again, I have little to quibble with what you wrote here. I agree. I can relate to your disturbance by how so many out there try to define salvation for everyone. Not only does it not sound like a merciful God, it leaves countless questions unanswered and ideas unchallenged.

I just posted purgatory as a top post for the poster in this thread and anyone else who might care. It hardly covers all the defense and reasons, but it's enough.

The couple of points I would like to make about your post here is one --- It is not so much Catholics do not want to refer to themselves as Christians, they do. It's just it is so difficult to endorse the way protestants describe or teach the faith that causes us to become unsettled about it. The subject is far too grave to endorse serious error.

Calling a Mormon a Christian stretches the term far more IMO. They act like Christians, however, far better than most Catholics or Protestants, I grant you that (or so it seems). And in the end, how we act (especially towards our neighbor) is of greater importance than what we believe. (It's in the Bible.)

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Jesus accepted all thought. He was a Jew.
The Jewish rabbis labeled Jesus as not being Jewish enough because of his rejection of a one size fits all Jewish religion.
Christianity started after Jesus' death. Christ taught us to be Christlike which is to love thy neighbor and treat them as equals.
Catholics held the first Christian church and were the first to practice Christianity as a religion.

I need more than just your word that Catholics were the first Christians.

How about some links that supports that silly idea?

And while you're at it link to where it mentions purgatory in the Bible. I noticed you dodged my last request.

Where did I say anything about purgatory. Wasn't me.

Purgatory is a tenet of Catholics.

You claim they were the first Christian religion yet you haven't shown any evidence to support that silly claim.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Jesus accepted all thought. He was a Jew.
The Jewish rabbis labeled Jesus as not being Jewish enough because of his rejection of a one size fits all Jewish religion.
Christianity started after Jesus' death. Christ taught us to be Christlike which is to love thy neighbor and treat them as equals.
Catholics held the first Christian church and were the first to practice Christianity as a religion.

I need more than just your word that Catholics were the first Christians.

How about some links that supports that silly idea?

And while you're at it link to where it mentions purgatory in the Bible. I noticed you dodged my last request.

Read Matthew 16 as that is what the Catholics believe.
Are you claiming that another Christian denomination is wrong?
Why? What evidence do you have that Jesus did not tell Peter to build his church and that was the start of the Catholic church?
Scripture says it and Catholics believe it. Why not respect their beliefs and we will respect yours?
Or are you the know it all I am the only one that knows the truth Christian?

So only Catholics believe Matt 16? Fact is the Bible does not say anything about Catholics.

You fail!

 

[tipofthespear]

I need more than just your word that Catholics were the first Christians.

How about some links that supports that silly idea?

And while you're at it link to where it mentions purgatory in the Bible. I noticed you dodged my last request.

Read Matthew 16 as that is what the Catholics believe.
Are you claiming that another Christian denomination is wrong?
Why? What evidence do you have that Jesus did not tell Peter to build his church and that was the start of the Catholic church?
Scripture says it and Catholics believe it. Why not respect their beliefs and we will respect yours?
Or are you the know it all I am the only one that knows the truth Christian?

So only Catholics believe Matt 16? Fact is the Bible does not say anything about Catholics.

You fail!

You are correct. Catholics did not establish the first Christian Church/Congregation after Pentacost........the First Church was the Church at Jerusalem of which James is believed to have been the Pastor. All one has to do is study the Book of Acts to realize this. The single use of the word "catholic" in the Bible came about with a description of the Church that said it was "holy and catholic." That phrase used "catholic" as an adjective, not a proper noun...........and Jesus Christ did not establish the Catholic Church, man did.

Now, before anyone gets their dander up, I DO NOT hate Catholics, just as I DO NOT hate any other group of believers...........all who profess Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour are my brothers and sisters in Christ. But it is important to show that the various groups who try and prove that they are the "one true" Church are not being Biblical. There is ONLY ONE true Church and that is the ENTIRE body of believers regardless of their group identifier, denomination, theological positions.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Forgiving is not the subject here. One of the greatest things about the Bible is the lessons on forgiveness. Forgiveness is a hard thing to do but I practice it and it is such a great lesson from a book of many great lessons in life. Forgiving allows YOU to get rid of that and throw that burden away. Such a great lesson!
But that is not what we are speaking of here. We are talking about being saved and accepting Jesus.
You can claim I am not a Christian and fine with me but the great book the Bible also teaches to not judge. That is the problem with Christians today. "I am right and you are wrong." I hear from many of my friends "Catholics are not Christians".Such an absurd argument as Catholics were THE FIRST Christians and I am not Catholic.
Those stories in the Bible were told to bring everyone to Christ as many Romans had done dastardly deeds and believed that no way, no how could they ever get into heaven.
But I respect your opinion as I do all others and I do not believe you are not a Christian for having a different opinion.
As there are how many Christian denominations with various opinions out there?
And we better not start calling each other "not Christian" if others have different views.
That diversity of Christianity has made this nation strong and separates us from most all other religions, specifically Muslim where Sunni and Shia kill each other over doctrine.

Acts 13:38-39

For man to appreciate forgiveness he must understand what life and eternity would be without it.

◦Without forgiveness there would be no entry into heaven.
◦Without forgiveness every funeral service would be a prelude to hell.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no knowledge of love.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no hope for any person.
◦Without forgiveness all would be lost.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no mercy.
◦Without forgiveness there would be innumerable suicides.
◦Without forgiveness there would be unremovable guilt.

FORGIVENESS

I am not judging you. I am telling you that you are not a Christian if you don't believe that all can be forgiven for their sins. And if they accept Jesus as their Savior they will be able to join Him in Heaven.

Catholics believe in purgatory. Show me where in the Bible does it reference purgatory.

You claim Catholics were the first Christians. Please link to that nonsense.

You can certainly believe what you wish but to be a Christian you must believe what Christ has taught us.

You have essentially stated that to be a Christian you must believe what YOU THINK Christ has taught us. No matter how sure of his teaching you are, no matter how right about those teaching you might be that is simply not true.

Your definition of ’Christian’ is incorrect. You are narrowly defining the term in a manner that reflects your faith. You might believe (and that would almost be a requirement of faith) that what you believe is correct and the other factions are misguided BUT that does not mean that they do not fall into the generally accepted definition of Christian. For one, you are interpreting Jesus words one way while other may read what was written differently. Because they read that differently does not mean that they are not Christian, even if they are incorrect it would not make them non-Christian.

All that is needed to be Christian is to believe in Jesus as savior. There are a million different factions (and Catholics really do fit in term though they tend to deny it) and even ones that have their own holy books. Mormons ARE Christians no matter how you other Christians might feel about that and regardless of the fact that they have an additional

It's not what I think, it's what the Bible says.

I haven't attempted to fully define what a Christian is, I simply showed one of the major tenets of Christianity which is "forgiveness".

Catholics in my opinion do not fit the Christian mold for the simple fact they pray to Mary as if she's equal to God and they give the Pope way to much power as if he's God's right hand man.

For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ, (1 Timothy 2:5)

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6)

Even the Roman Catholic understanding of "saints" doesn't compare very well with the Bible. In Catholic ideology the saints are in Heaven, in the Bible the saint are on earth. In Catholic ideology a person doesn't become a saint unless he/she is beatified or canonized by the Pope or prominent bishop. In the Bible, everyone who has received Jesus Christ by faith is a saint. In Catholic practice saints are revered, prayed to, and in some instances worshipped. In the Bible, saints are called to revere, worship and pray to God alone.

 

[Gadawg73]

I need more than just your word that Catholics were the first Christians.

How about some links that supports that silly idea?

And while you're at it link to where it mentions purgatory in the Bible. I noticed you dodged my last request.

Read Matthew 16 as that is what the Catholics believe.
Are you claiming that another Christian denomination is wrong?
Why? What evidence do you have that Jesus did not tell Peter to build his church and that was the start of the Catholic church?
Scripture says it and Catholics believe it. Why not respect their beliefs and we will respect yours?
Or are you the know it all I am the only one that knows the truth Christian?

So only Catholics believe Matt 16? Fact is the Bible does not say anything about Catholics.

You fail!

Bible says nothing about Methodists either and I never said only Catholics believe Matthew 16.

Point your finger all you want Lonestar but it does not make you right.
I respect what you believe.
If you do not see the harm of your ways when you go around telling others that THEIR Christian beliefs are wrong you are blind.

 

[Gadawg73]

Acts 13:38-39

For man to appreciate forgiveness he must understand what life and eternity would be without it.

◦Without forgiveness there would be no entry into heaven.
◦Without forgiveness every funeral service would be a prelude to hell.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no knowledge of love.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no hope for any person.
◦Without forgiveness all would be lost.
◦Without forgiveness there would be no mercy.
◦Without forgiveness there would be innumerable suicides.
◦Without forgiveness there would be unremovable guilt.

FORGIVENESS

I am not judging you. I am telling you that you are not a Christian if you don't believe that all can be forgiven for their sins. And if they accept Jesus as their Savior they will be able to join Him in Heaven.

Catholics believe in purgatory. Show me where in the Bible does it reference purgatory.

You claim Catholics were the first Christians. Please link to that nonsense.

You can certainly believe what you wish but to be a Christian you must believe what Christ has taught us.

You have essentially stated that to be a Christian you must believe what YOU THINK Christ has taught us. No matter how sure of his teaching you are, no matter how right about those teaching you might be that is simply not true.

Your definition of ’Christian’ is incorrect. You are narrowly defining the term in a manner that reflects your faith. You might believe (and that would almost be a requirement of faith) that what you believe is correct and the other factions are misguided BUT that does not mean that they do not fall into the generally accepted definition of Christian. For one, you are interpreting Jesus words one way while other may read what was written differently. Because they read that differently does not mean that they are not Christian, even if they are incorrect it would not make them non-Christian.

All that is needed to be Christian is to believe in Jesus as savior. There are a million different factions (and Catholics really do fit in term though they tend to deny it) and even ones that have their own holy books. Mormons ARE Christians no matter how you other Christians might feel about that and regardless of the fact that they have an additional

It's not what I think, it's what the Bible says.

I haven't attempted to fully define what a Christian is, I simply showed one of the major tenets of Christianity which is "forgiveness".

Catholics in my opinion do not fit the Christian mold for the simple fact they pray to Mary as if she's equal to God and they give the Pope way to much power as if he's God's right hand man.

For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ, (1 Timothy 2:5)

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6)

Even the Roman Catholic understanding of "saints" doesn't compare very well with the Bible. In Catholic ideology the saints are in Heaven, in the Bible the saint are on earth. In Catholic ideology a person doesn't become a saint unless he/she is beatified or canonized by the Pope or prominent bishop. In the Bible, everyone who has received Jesus Christ by faith is a saint. In Catholic practice saints are revered, prayed to, and in some instances worshipped. In the Bible, saints are called to revere, worship and pray to God alone.

Different Christian denominations have different interpretations of what they believe the Bible says.
You have yours and they have theirs.
I respect yours and you do not respect mine and others. You claim you are right and they are wrong.
Exactly what Jesus rebelled against when the Jewish rabbis looked down on him for interpreting Judaism differently than they did.
Or was Jesus the good Jew that strictly went by what the norms of his religion were of that day.
Jesus taught respect and acceptance of everyone.

 

[tipofthespear]

Read Matthew 16 as that is what the Catholics believe.
Are you claiming that another Christian denomination is wrong?
Why? What evidence do you have that Jesus did not tell Peter to build his church and that was the start of the Catholic church?
Scripture says it and Catholics believe it. Why not respect their beliefs and we will respect yours?
Or are you the know it all I am the only one that knows the truth Christian?

So only Catholics believe Matt 16? Fact is the Bible does not say anything about Catholics.

You fail!

Bible says nothing about Methodists either and I never said only Catholics believe Matthew 16.

Point your finger all you want Lonestar but it does not make you right.
I respect what you believe.
If you do not see the harm of your ways when you go around telling others that THEIR Christian beliefs are wrong you are blind.

With regards to the last part of your statement, I agree that believers should not criticize the stance of other believers...........rather than argue their differences in theology, believers should celebrate their common beliefs.......and this is just as true for the Catholic Church as it is for LoneStar, or the various Protestant Churches.......for when the Catholic Church proclaims that it is the FIRST CHURCH, and it was established by Jesus Christ, that is "telling all others that their beliefs are wrong........."

It's that "goose...........gander" thing.

 

[turzovka]

It's not what I think, it's what the Bible says.

I haven't attempted to fully define what a Christian is, I simply showed one of the major tenets of Christianity which is "forgiveness".

Catholics in my opinion do not fit the Christian mold for the simple fact they pray to Mary as if she's equal to God and they give the Pope way to much power as if he's God's right hand man.

For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ, (1 Timothy 2:5)

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6)

Even the Roman Catholic understanding of "saints" doesn't compare very well with the Bible. In Catholic ideology the saints are in Heaven, in the Bible the saint are on earth. In Catholic ideology a person doesn't become a saint unless he/she is beatified or canonized by the Pope or prominent bishop. In the Bible, everyone who has received Jesus Christ by faith is a saint. In Catholic practice saints are revered, prayed to, and in some instances worshipped. In the Bible, saints are called to revere, worship and pray to God alone.

It appears to me when you say "It's not what I think, it's what the Bible says," what you really mean is it's what parts of the Bible say, only. There are serious contradictions to your protestant views of salvation, of faith, and of the Church. Very serious, and too many to mention in detail.

Who has the power to bind sins or loose them? Anybody who calls themselves a Christian? What if the two disagree?

When Jesus says "the gates of hell shall not prevail against thee (the church)" to who or what is he referring to? Everyone who thinks they are "the church?" That's nonsense.

The "Church" has different meanings in Scripture. It exhausts me to hear protestants constantly declare it only refers to the "body of believers." Again, nonsense. The Church is a divinely ordained authority and the twelve apostles are an ordained hierarchy. As is their successors. Why would it have been so important for them to choose a successor to Judas if there were no special authority given unto the twelve?

Explain who the Church is in Matthew 18? It surely is made distinct from simply a group of believers. 15 “If your brother sins[k], go and [l]show him his fault [m]in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every [n]fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as [o]a Gentile and [p]a tax collector

Where does Catholic teaching say we worship Mary or the saints? I know that is what the protestant voice wishes we would do so it would make your case stronger, but we do not. We venerate her, we pray to her. We pray to the saints and the fruits have been manifested hear on earth a million times over. It's ok to ask your friend to pray for you, yes we agree. But to ask the Mother of God to pray for us, you seriously think this causes God to be angry? You think honoring the mother of Jesus causes Jesus heartbreak?

I cannot go on, but I just cannot endure protestant musings. They dance around John 6 about Jesus flesh and blood in the Eucharist --- they dance around the Church being the authority to forgive sins or hold them bound --- and then they act as though they are so beholden to every word of Scripture. Then they also pretend the Bible just came down from heaven and no one in the early Church had anything to do with it. Note: the Church was here, and ordained by Christ, long before there was a Bible.

You might want to look at my top post from yesterday about purgatory not being in the Bible. That is only a sample of passages in Scripture that must refer to a purification after death. Protestants can spin those verses all they want, but it only gives another impression of desperation, IMO.

 

[tipofthespear]

It's not what I think, it's what the Bible says.

I haven't attempted to fully define what a Christian is, I simply showed one of the major tenets of Christianity which is "forgiveness".

Catholics in my opinion do not fit the Christian mold for the simple fact they pray to Mary as if she's equal to God and they give the Pope way to much power as if he's God's right hand man.

For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ, (1 Timothy 2:5)

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6)

Even the Roman Catholic understanding of "saints" doesn't compare very well with the Bible. In Catholic ideology the saints are in Heaven, in the Bible the saint are on earth. In Catholic ideology a person doesn't become a saint unless he/she is beatified or canonized by the Pope or prominent bishop. In the Bible, everyone who has received Jesus Christ by faith is a saint. In Catholic practice saints are revered, prayed to, and in some instances worshipped. In the Bible, saints are called to revere, worship and pray to God alone.

It appears to me when you say "It's not what I think, it's what the Bible says," what you really mean is it's what parts of the Bible say, only. There are serious contradictions to your protestant views of salvation, of faith, and of the Church. Very serious, and too many to mention in detail.

Who has the power to bind sins or loose them? Anybody who calls themselves a Christian? What if the two disagree?

When Jesus says "the gates of hell shall not prevail against thee (the church)" to who or what is he referring to? Everyone who thinks they are "the church?" That's nonsense.

The "Church" has different meanings in Scripture. It exhausts me to hear protestants constantly declare it only refers to the "body of believers." Again, nonsense. The Church is a divinely ordained authority and the twelve apostles are an ordained hierarchy. As is their successors. Why would it have been so important for them to choose a successor to Judas if there were no special authority given unto the twelve?

Explain who the Church is in Matthew 18? It surely is made distinct from simply a group of believers. 15 “If your brother sins[k], go and [l]show him his fault [m]in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every [n]fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as [o]a Gentile and [p]a tax collector

Where does Catholic teaching say we worship Mary or the saints? I know that is what the protestant voice wishes we would do so it would make your case stronger, but we do not. We venerate her, we pray to her. We pray to the saints and the fruits have been manifested hear on earth a million times over. It's ok to ask your friend to pray for you, yes we agree. But to ask the Mother of God to pray for us, you seriously think this causes God to be angry? You think honoring the mother of Jesus causes Jesus heartbreak?

I cannot go on, but I just cannot endure protestant musings. They dance around John 6 about Jesus flesh and blood in the Eucharist --- they dance around the Church being the authority to forgive sins or hold them bound --- and then they act as though they are so beholden to every word of Scripture. Then they also pretend the Bible just came down from heaven and no one in the early Church had anything to do with it. Note: the Church was here, and ordained by Christ, long before there was a Bible.

You might want to look at my top post from yesterday about purgatory not being in the Bible. That is only a sample of passages in Scripture that must refer to a purification after death. Protestants can spin those verses all they want, but it only gives another impression of desperation, IMO.

Here we go............didn't take that long to get all this started did it.......

For you to even suggest that the Catholic church is the one church established by Scripture is to deny the totality of the teachings of Christ, and the entire body of Epistles of the Apostle Paul.......but go ahead............by the by.......you are quite welcome to believe as you wish..........and that's fine with me.........but do not try and dismiss what I believe as non Biblical because I have a different view............you guys can't even get the argument right between yourselves and the Eastern Orthodox church...........who, by the way, believe you guys protested outta them.......

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Read Matthew 16 as that is what the Catholics believe.
Are you claiming that another Christian denomination is wrong?
Why? What evidence do you have that Jesus did not tell Peter to build his church and that was the start of the Catholic church?
Scripture says it and Catholics believe it. Why not respect their beliefs and we will respect yours?
Or are you the know it all I am the only one that knows the truth Christian?

So only Catholics believe Matt 16? Fact is the Bible does not say anything about Catholics.

You fail!

Bible says nothing about Methodists either and I never said only Catholics believe Matthew 16.

Point your finger all you want Lonestar but it does not make you right.
I respect what you believe.
If you do not see the harm of your ways when you go around telling others that THEIR Christian beliefs are wrong you are blind.

No it doesn't. But no one has claimed that the Methodist was the first Christian church.

You pointed to Matt. 16 to prove your point about Catholics.. Did you not?

When your beliefs about Christianity are wrong, I will point them out. I don't like ignorant Christians. You know the people that claim to be Christians but has no idea what the Bible teaches. Sadly there are many of those types out there.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

You have essentially stated that to be a Christian you must believe what YOU THINK Christ has taught us. No matter how sure of his teaching you are, no matter how right about those teaching you might be that is simply not true.

Your definition of ’Christian’ is incorrect. You are narrowly defining the term in a manner that reflects your faith. You might believe (and that would almost be a requirement of faith) that what you believe is correct and the other factions are misguided BUT that does not mean that they do not fall into the generally accepted definition of Christian. For one, you are interpreting Jesus words one way while other may read what was written differently. Because they read that differently does not mean that they are not Christian, even if they are incorrect it would not make them non-Christian.

All that is needed to be Christian is to believe in Jesus as savior. There are a million different factions (and Catholics really do fit in term though they tend to deny it) and even ones that have their own holy books. Mormons ARE Christians no matter how you other Christians might feel about that and regardless of the fact that they have an additional

It's not what I think, it's what the Bible says.

I haven't attempted to fully define what a Christian is, I simply showed one of the major tenets of Christianity which is "forgiveness".

Catholics in my opinion do not fit the Christian mold for the simple fact they pray to Mary as if she's equal to God and they give the Pope way to much power as if he's God's right hand man.

For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ, (1 Timothy 2:5)

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6)

Even the Roman Catholic understanding of "saints" doesn't compare very well with the Bible. In Catholic ideology the saints are in Heaven, in the Bible the saint are on earth. In Catholic ideology a person doesn't become a saint unless he/she is beatified or canonized by the Pope or prominent bishop. In the Bible, everyone who has received Jesus Christ by faith is a saint. In Catholic practice saints are revered, prayed to, and in some instances worshipped. In the Bible, saints are called to revere, worship and pray to God alone.

Different Christian denominations have different interpretations of what they believe the Bible says.
You have yours and they have theirs.
I respect yours and you do not respect mine and others. You claim you are right and they are wrong.
Exactly what Jesus rebelled against when the Jewish rabbis looked down on him for interpreting Judaism differently than they did.
Or was Jesus the good Jew that strictly went by what the norms of his religion were of that day.
Jesus taught respect and acceptance of everyone.

The Bible says what it says. Denominations pick and choose which part they wish to follow and how they follow it.

And no I don't respect those that go against the teachings of Christ.

Jesus didn't rebel against Caiaphas and I have no idea why you would say that because no interpretation of scripture even suggests that He did.

Caiaphas looked for false evidence against Jesus so they could put him to death and didn't find any though many false witnesses came forward. Finally two came forward and said the Jesus claimed he is able to destroy the temple and in rebuild it in three days. And when Caiaphas asked Jesus is this was true Jesus stayed silent. Then the high priest said to Him " I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God."

Jesus replied, "You have said so, But I will say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on a clouds of Heaven"

Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look now you have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?"

"He is worthy of death" was their answer.

There was no rebellion.

Read Matthew 26: 57-67

 

[turzovka]

It's not what I think, it's what the Bible says.

I haven't attempted to fully define what a Christian is, I simply showed one of the major tenets of Christianity which is "forgiveness".

Catholics in my opinion do not fit the Christian mold for the simple fact they pray to Mary as if she's equal to God and they give the Pope way to much power as if he's God's right hand man.

For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ, (1 Timothy 2:5)

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6)

Even the Roman Catholic understanding of "saints" doesn't compare very well with the Bible. In Catholic ideology the saints are in Heaven, in the Bible the saint are on earth. In Catholic ideology a person doesn't become a saint unless he/she is beatified or canonized by the Pope or prominent bishop. In the Bible, everyone who has received Jesus Christ by faith is a saint. In Catholic practice saints are revered, prayed to, and in some instances worshipped. In the Bible, saints are called to revere, worship and pray to God alone.

It appears to me when you say "It's not what I think, it's what the Bible says," what you really mean is it's what parts of the Bible say, only. There are serious contradictions to your protestant views of salvation, of faith, and of the Church. Very serious, and too many to mention in detail.

Who has the power to bind sins or loose them? Anybody who calls themselves a Christian? What if the two disagree?

When Jesus says "the gates of hell shall not prevail against thee (the church)" to who or what is he referring to? Everyone who thinks they are "the church?" That's nonsense.

The "Church" has different meanings in Scripture. It exhausts me to hear protestants constantly declare it only refers to the "body of believers." Again, nonsense. The Church is a divinely ordained authority and the twelve apostles are an ordained hierarchy. As is their successors. Why would it have been so important for them to choose a successor to Judas if there were no special authority given unto the twelve?

Explain who the Church is in Matthew 18? It surely is made distinct from simply a group of believers. 15 “If your brother sins[k], go and [l]show him his fault [m]in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every [n]fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as [o]a Gentile and [p]a tax collector

Where does Catholic teaching say we worship Mary or the saints? I know that is what the protestant voice wishes we would do so it would make your case stronger, but we do not. We venerate her, we pray to her. We pray to the saints and the fruits have been manifested hear on earth a million times over. It's ok to ask your friend to pray for you, yes we agree. But to ask the Mother of God to pray for us, you seriously think this causes God to be angry? You think honoring the mother of Jesus causes Jesus heartbreak?

I cannot go on, but I just cannot endure protestant musings. They dance around John 6 about Jesus flesh and blood in the Eucharist --- they dance around the Church being the authority to forgive sins or hold them bound --- and then they act as though they are so beholden to every word of Scripture. Then they also pretend the Bible just came down from heaven and no one in the early Church had anything to do with it. Note: the Church was here, and ordained by Christ, long before there was a Bible.

You might want to look at my top post from yesterday about purgatory not being in the Bible. That is only a sample of passages in Scripture that must refer to a purification after death. Protestants can spin those verses all they want, but it only gives another impression of desperation, IMO.

Here we go............didn't take that long to get all this started did it.......

For you to even suggest that the Catholic church is the one church established by Scripture is to deny the totality of the teachings of Christ, and the entire body of Epistles of the Apostle Paul.......but go ahead............by the by.......you are quite welcome to believe as you wish..........and that's fine with me.........but do not try and dismiss what I believe as non Biblical because I have a different view............you guys can't even get the argument right between yourselves and the Eastern Orthodox church...........who, by the way, believe you guys protested outta them.......

Speaking of here we go again. Why do you run away from so many specific questions and instead make your big confident summary statement --- tantamount to "oh please wayward catholic, do not bother me with your silliness." ?? I understand your fear, but it is your arrogance that is hard to understand. You asked for verses in the Bible about purgatory. I only listed four so far in that top post (I have at least another 20 from the new testament). Here I thought you might have the courage to address even those. Silly me.