Paul Ryan Quivers as Bernie Sanders Outs Dirty Secret Behind His Poverty Propaganda

[nodoginnafight]

I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum. What has been imposed legally has become a witch hunt. We can see this with the number of women that have been imprisoned for miscarriages and still births. An abortion is a private decision. It isn't going to end so safety is key. Ryan is insane.

He knows that the women that are more financially well off will leave the country and have an abortion.

I am sure that there are women that would be willing to carry high risk babies but that is a personal and private choice.

If you believe - as I do - that a fetus is a human being, then abortion isn't just a private decision. Because in those deliberations, who is speaking for the child?

One of the main purposes of laws (imho) is to protect those who are not powerful enough to protect themselves. The fetus is a prime example of someone who cannot speak for himself nor defend herself. IMHO - That is a legitimate cause for legal protection. And as for safety - if you believe the fetus is a human being (as I do) then why would you worry about the safety of someone who is intent on killing that human being?

But I agree with everything else you posted.

I do not believe the same. The most indisputable fact is that the woman is a live human being. A fetus is not.

These are indisputable facts:
Women's Interest in Adopting Increased by 38 Percent between 1995 and 2002
Based on estimates from the National Survey of Family Growth, 18 million women reported being interested in adopting in 2002. This represents a 38 percent increase since 1995 when 13 million women reported interest. The 18 million women interested in 2002 represents a third (33 percent) of the population of women ages 18 to 44, up from about a quarter (24 percent) of women (13 million) in 1995.

Women Interested In Adoption Were Less Likely to Take Steps to Adopt in 2002 than in 1995
In 2002, 10 percent (1.9 million) of the women who reported an interest in adopting took steps toward this end. This portion represents a decline since 1995, when 16 percent (2.1 million) of the women who reported interest took steps. Declines in the portion of interested women taking steps occurred for many demographic groups. For some groups of interested women, the percentage that took steps remained fairly steady: 30- to 34-yearolds, black women, Hispanic women, unmarried women, and lower-income women.

Year Published: 2011 - 6 pages
Most Americans favor adoption, and many have at some point considered adoption. However, relatively few have taken concrete steps toward adopting a child, and fewer still have actually adopted a child. This factsheet examines some of the more recent statistics and trends regarding American adults who seek to adopt an infant or child.
All of that is located in the link with other links.
Foster Care Adoption in the United States: An Analysis of Interest in Adoption and a Review of State Recruitment Strategies

^^^ need a voice to do more than speak for them. They need action.

Thus, the only qualified individual to have a voice in an abortion is the pregnant woman and is the only legitimate cause for protection legally.

I still think your pretty cool but I ........vehemently disagree.

I respect your opinions and your ability to disagree without being disagreeable. If more posters on these boards were like you, it would be a lot more pleasant experience for me.

I'll try to live up to that standard.

I don't see how all the adoption statistics and attitudes you provided are relevant to the question as to whether or not a fetus is a human being that is entitled to protection under our legal system.

I respect the disproportionate burden that is placed on women in terms of reproduction. I despise dead-beat dads (and dead-beat moms for that matter). If there was a way to make that biological burden more equal - I'd be all for it.

But it is what it is.

I agree that a woman is certainly a human being with rights - but I think we all recognize that one person's rights may have to be compromised when the exercise of those rights infringes upon the rights of another human being. I don't believe you can state with certainty that a fetus is not a human being. I believe that the instant a fertilized egg develops characteristics that are uniquely human - then it becomes a human that is entitled to protect.

 

[Disir]

I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum. What has been imposed legally has become a witch hunt. We can see this with the number of women that have been imprisoned for miscarriages and still births.

I was not aware of this happening - can't you point me to some more information on this?
I - obviously - don't support anything like that.

Outcry in America as pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges | World news | The Guardian
Arrests of and Forced Interventions on Pregnant Women in the United States, 1973?2005: Implications for Women?s Legal Status and Public Health

 

[tinydancer]

What pisses me off about the abortion debate is that there is one.

Abortion is the law of the land. We were told that abortion would never be used as a birth control measure, that abortion would never be used to abort a child with a disability, nor abort due to gender selection.

Well, we were lied to weren't we? So why don't we just stop with the bullshit. Give a specific time period where you can choose to off your child in your womb and be done with it.

Now that's" choice ".

Let's call it for what it is. Don't pretty it up Don't make it nicey nicey. You want to kill the baby before _______________ (fill in the blank) weeks do it. Legally. But stop with the bullshit.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum. What has been imposed legally has become a witch hunt. We can see this with the number of women that have been imprisoned for miscarriages and still births.

I was not aware of this happening - can't you point me to some more information on this?
I - obviously - don't support anything like that.

Outcry in America as pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges | World news | The Guardian
Arrests of and Forced Interventions on Pregnant Women in the United States, 1973?2005: Implications for Women?s Legal Status and Public Health

Thanks - there is some thought-provoking (and troubling) reading here.

I can see where my position on the personhood of a fetus, could be used (misused imho) to justify some crazy stuff. I'm gonna have to mull on this. Thank you.

 

[The Rabbi]

I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum. What has been imposed legally has become a witch hunt. We can see this with the number of women that have been imprisoned for miscarriages and still births.

I was not aware of this happening - can't you point me to some more information on this?
I - obviously - don't support anything like that.

Outcry in America as pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges | World news | The Guardian
Arrests of and Forced Interventions on Pregnant Women in the United States, 1973?2005: Implications for Women?s Legal Status and Public Health

More misrepresenation. No woman has been imprisoned simply for having a miscarriage. The miscarriage was ancillary to other illegal activity.
Libs always get it wrong. Always.

 

[Disir]

I was not aware of this happening - can't you point me to some more information on this?
I - obviously - don't support anything like that.

Outcry in America as pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges | World news | The Guardian
Arrests of and Forced Interventions on Pregnant Women in the United States, 1973?2005: Implications for Women?s Legal Status and Public Health

Thanks - there is some thought-provoking (and troubling) reading here.

I can see where my position on the personhood of a fetus, could be used (misused imho) to justify some crazy stuff. I'm gonna have to mull on this. Thank you.

No, thank you. I can't respond to your other post. I will have to either late tonight or tomorrow.

 

[Disir]

If you believe - as I do - that a fetus is a human being, then abortion isn't just a private decision. Because in those deliberations, who is speaking for the child?

One of the main purposes of laws (imho) is to protect those who are not powerful enough to protect themselves. The fetus is a prime example of someone who cannot speak for himself nor defend herself. IMHO - That is a legitimate cause for legal protection. And as for safety - if you believe the fetus is a human being (as I do) then why would you worry about the safety of someone who is intent on killing that human being?

But I agree with everything else you posted.

I do not believe the same. The most indisputable fact is that the woman is a live human being. A fetus is not.

These are indisputable facts:
Women's Interest in Adopting Increased by 38 Percent between 1995 and 2002
Based on estimates from the National Survey of Family Growth, 18 million women reported being interested in adopting in 2002. This represents a 38 percent increase since 1995 when 13 million women reported interest. The 18 million women interested in 2002 represents a third (33 percent) of the population of women ages 18 to 44, up from about a quarter (24 percent) of women (13 million) in 1995.

Women Interested In Adoption Were Less Likely to Take Steps to Adopt in 2002 than in 1995
In 2002, 10 percent (1.9 million) of the women who reported an interest in adopting took steps toward this end. This portion represents a decline since 1995, when 16 percent (2.1 million) of the women who reported interest took steps. Declines in the portion of interested women taking steps occurred for many demographic groups. For some groups of interested women, the percentage that took steps remained fairly steady: 30- to 34-yearolds, black women, Hispanic women, unmarried women, and lower-income women.

Year Published: 2011 - 6 pages
Most Americans favor adoption, and many have at some point considered adoption. However, relatively few have taken concrete steps toward adopting a child, and fewer still have actually adopted a child. This factsheet examines some of the more recent statistics and trends regarding American adults who seek to adopt an infant or child.
All of that is located in the link with other links.
Foster Care Adoption in the United States: An Analysis of Interest in Adoption and a Review of State Recruitment Strategies

^^^ need a voice to do more than speak for them. They need action.

Thus, the only qualified individual to have a voice in an abortion is the pregnant woman and is the only legitimate cause for protection legally.

I still think your pretty cool but I ........vehemently disagree.

I respect your opinions and your ability to disagree without being disagreeable. If more posters on these boards were like you, it would be a lot more pleasant experience for me.

I'll try to live up to that standard.

I don't see how all the adoption statistics and attitudes you provided are relevant to the question as to whether or not a fetus is a human being that is entitled to protection under our legal system.

I respect the disproportionate burden that is placed on women in terms of reproduction. I despise dead-beat dads (and dead-beat moms for that matter). If there was a way to make that biological burden more equal - I'd be all for it.

But it is what it is.

I agree that a woman is certainly a human being with rights - but I think we all recognize that one person's rights may have to be compromised when the exercise of those rights infringes upon the rights of another human being. I don't believe you can state with certainty that a fetus is not a human being. I believe that the instant a fertilized egg develops characteristics that are uniquely human - then it becomes a human that is entitled to protect.

I respect your opinions as well and this is a very welcome break from the usual. The fetus is dna and tissue (like hair or nails) so this isn't a real issue.

For most anti abortionists this is a religious issue. It's completely subjective and most often quite selfish. Take Operation Rescue. These folks are extremists. I know that not everyone fits in this category. These are a group of fundamentalists with a long history (in all of their forms and name changes) of terrorizing via intimidation, death threats, stalking and harassment for people who work in the facilities. And murder. They do what they can to shame and humiliate the women walking in. They used to line their younger children out in the street to block the cars from coming in and NOW have moved to send their children out to do their dirty work for them as if they are some kind of psychological body shield. They demonstrate how much they really care by putting their own children at risk.

These people have two reasons for doing so. Their interest is not in the woman or her circumstances that is walking through the door. It is not really in any baby after the fact. The first is that if they can manage to stop the event from occurring visibly as in legally then their God will favor the United States. Secondly, they have taken the cheap and easy stairway to heaven approach. They are aware that abortions will not end but they have made this the least they can do in the form of social responsibility. They will have done their part and by making the first reason patriotic then it assures the second will be fulfilled. It is much more difficult to work with or for solutions for the living as in adoption.

When you look at the groups of people that are adopting you find there really aren't too many Paul Ryans in there. It isn't his problem either. He isn't interested in solving those issues either. In fact, this comes through with his poverty shpeil.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I do not believe the same. The most indisputable fact is that the woman is a live human being. A fetus is not.

These are indisputable facts:
Women's Interest in Adopting Increased by 38 Percent between 1995 and 2002
Based on estimates from the National Survey of Family Growth, 18 million women reported being interested in adopting in 2002. This represents a 38 percent increase since 1995 when 13 million women reported interest. The 18 million women interested in 2002 represents a third (33 percent) of the population of women ages 18 to 44, up from about a quarter (24 percent) of women (13 million) in 1995.

Women Interested In Adoption Were Less Likely to Take Steps to Adopt in 2002 than in 1995
In 2002, 10 percent (1.9 million) of the women who reported an interest in adopting took steps toward this end. This portion represents a decline since 1995, when 16 percent (2.1 million) of the women who reported interest took steps. Declines in the portion of interested women taking steps occurred for many demographic groups. For some groups of interested women, the percentage that took steps remained fairly steady: 30- to 34-yearolds, black women, Hispanic women, unmarried women, and lower-income women.

Year Published: 2011 - 6 pages
Most Americans favor adoption, and many have at some point considered adoption. However, relatively few have taken concrete steps toward adopting a child, and fewer still have actually adopted a child. This factsheet examines some of the more recent statistics and trends regarding American adults who seek to adopt an infant or child.
All of that is located in the link with other links.
Foster Care Adoption in the United States: An Analysis of Interest in Adoption and a Review of State Recruitment Strategies

^^^ need a voice to do more than speak for them. They need action.

Thus, the only qualified individual to have a voice in an abortion is the pregnant woman and is the only legitimate cause for protection legally.

I still think your pretty cool but I ........vehemently disagree.

I respect your opinions and your ability to disagree without being disagreeable. If more posters on these boards were like you, it would be a lot more pleasant experience for me.

I'll try to live up to that standard.

I don't see how all the adoption statistics and attitudes you provided are relevant to the question as to whether or not a fetus is a human being that is entitled to protection under our legal system.

I respect the disproportionate burden that is placed on women in terms of reproduction. I despise dead-beat dads (and dead-beat moms for that matter). If there was a way to make that biological burden more equal - I'd be all for it.

But it is what it is.

I agree that a woman is certainly a human being with rights - but I think we all recognize that one person's rights may have to be compromised when the exercise of those rights infringes upon the rights of another human being. I don't believe you can state with certainty that a fetus is not a human being. I believe that the instant a fertilized egg develops characteristics that are uniquely human - then it becomes a human that is entitled to protect.

I respect your opinions as well and this is a very welcome break from the usual. The fetus is dna and tissue (like hair or nails) so this isn't a real issue.

For most anti abortionists this is a religious issue. It's completely subjective and most often quite selfish. Take Operation Rescue. These folks are extremists. I know that not everyone fits in this category. These are a group of fundamentalists with a long history (in all of their forms and name changes) of terrorizing via intimidation, death threats, stalking and harassment for people who work in the facilities. And murder. They do what they can to shame and humiliate the women walking in. They used to line their younger children out in the street to block the cars from coming in and NOW have moved to send their children out to do their dirty work for them as if they are some kind of psychological body shield. They demonstrate how much they really care by putting their own children at risk.

These people have two reasons for doing so. Their interest is not in the woman or her circumstances that is walking through the door. It is not really in any baby after the fact. The first is that if they can manage to stop the event from occurring visibly as in legally then their God will favor the United States. Secondly, they have taken the cheap and easy stairway to heaven approach. They are aware that abortions will not end but they have made this the least they can do in the form of social responsibility. They will have done their part and by making the first reason patriotic then it assures the second will be fulfilled. It is much more difficult to work with or for solutions for the living as in adoption.

When you look at the groups of people that are adopting you find there really aren't too many Paul Ryans in there. It isn't his problem either. He isn't interested in solving those issues either. In fact, this comes through with his poverty shpeil.

I have to disagree with most of this post. A fetus is not (imho) anything like a finger nail or hair tissue. The natural progression of a finger nail or hair follicle will never see it call someone mommy or daddy. I believe that this argument is meant more to soothe the woman who is probably having one of the worst days of her life. I encourage treating people with kindness and compassion no matter what, but when it comes to addressing policy, I think we're much better off with practical and realistic in addition to compassionate - considerations.

The moment at which human life begins is debatable - granted. I believe it begins whenever that fetus begins showing characteristics that are uniquely human. Because it is growing and developing so it is obviously alive - so it's life. And when it shows uniquely human characteristics - it is obviously human - human life. And even if we are to error in that - shouldn't we err on the side of life - just like we do in virtually every other legal case?

I agree that the motives and the methods of many anti-abortionists make me not want to associate myself with them nor be linked to them in any way.

Oh and as to some of the draconian laws being enacted that you directed me to - I detest them. But since I do believe that a fetus is a human being, I feel that mothers who knowingly expose their children to danger by using illegal drugs, have committed reckless endangerment. The ones charged without ever having taken drugs - are getting hosed - big time.

(Sorry it took so long - I was traveling)

 

[Seawytch]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vFnT4AbJLrw

 

[driveby]

Sen. Sanders said, “You have folks out there now who have virtually no income coming in. They have families. They have kids. How are they going to eat? We have veterans out there trying to get into the food stamp program. To me, what you’re looking at is an ugly kind of class warfare where the people on top want more and more and more, and they’re pushing down in an incredibly terrible way the most vulnerable people in our country.”

Later Sen. Sanders ripped Republicans for claiming that the problem is that children get too much help from the federal government, “These are the same people who want to eliminate the estate tax, which applies to only the top three tenths of one percent of all Americans, which is the richest of the rich, then they are going after kids. The politics of this, Al, is what they are trying to do is deflect attention away from income and wealth inequality. Attention away from the fact that the rich are doing extraordinarily well, and tell their supporters that the real problem in America is that children are getting too much help from the federal government, and that’s the kind of mentality that we have got to fight back against.”

Sen. Sanders nailed it. This is a classic case of Republicans trying to blame the victims of their policies. Republicans crashed the economy, threw millions out of work, then blamed the unemployed, and their children for needing assistance. While the GOP tries to take the food out of the mouths of those who are struggling, the rich continue to get richer.

The Koch brothers won’t have less money if children continue to get free school lunches. The issue is that the people at the very top continue to see their wealth grow while nearly everyone else is struggling to survive.

That’s the dirty little secret that Bernie Sanders exposed.

Republicans refuse to limit themselves to encouraging the wealthy. They are on a mission to take everything away from everyone else, and give it to the rich. Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) has been leading this new smokescreen with a war against the poor that has been disguised as budget cuts and poverty studies.

Ryan and his millionaire Republican brothers are running a shell game. They are trying to convince the American people that the income inequality that is obvious to everyone isn’t a problem. Instead, they want the country to focus on the fact that poor people need to eat.

Video is in link
Paul Ryan Quivers as Bernie Sanders Outs the Dirty Secret Behind His Poverty Propaganda

Wow, the next thing you know you'll be defending a Mumia supporter being appointed to the justice department..........

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

The only thing keeping people in poverty is the green energy scam. All energy cost increases transmit through all consumer goods costs and that keeps people poorer. All energy costs are higher because of the left's green energy scam and the stifling of domestic fossil fuel production and extraction. Period. Democrats keep people poor which is where they want them. They can then be convinced they're victims of repubs and dependent upon democrats the way this dishonest political whore Sanders is demonstrating.

 

[boilermaker55]

A statement of "Fail?" From you.
And the real trouble is, you take yourself serious.

Paul Ryan can't fight the truth.

ROFLMAO!
Fail. Total fail.

 

[boilermaker55]

The only thing. There are so many mitigating factors as to why those amassing more and more wealth, amass more and more wealth.
It is called--buy a politician and more.

The only thing keeping people in poverty is the green energy scam. All energy cost increases transmit through all consumer goods costs and that keeps people poorer. All energy costs are higher because of the left's green energy scam and the stifling of domestic fossil fuel production and extraction. Period. Democrats keep people poor which is where they want them. They can then be convinced they're victims of repubs and dependent upon democrats the way this dishonest political whore Sanders is demonstrating.

 

[DriftingSand]

Bernie Sanders kind of destroyed him right there.

Bernie Sanders "destroyed" his credibility (as if he had any to begin with). Just another talking shirt blowing hot air. Money doesn't grow on trees if you want money you gotta work for it. Stop sucking Sander's tits.

 

[jillian]

Bernie Sanders kind of destroyed him right there.

The only thing Bernie Sanders destroyed is his credibility. And yours.

Except that what he said was true and you'd know that if you weren't spoofed on rightwingnut propaganda.

But feel free to prove what he's wrong about

I love failed rightwing loons who don't understand their own self-interest.

 

[OKTexas]

Sen. Sanders said, “You have folks out there now who have virtually no income coming in. They have families. They have kids. How are they going to eat? We have veterans out there trying to get into the food stamp program. To me, what you’re looking at is an ugly kind of class warfare where the people on top want more and more and more, and they’re pushing down in an incredibly terrible way the most vulnerable people in our country.”

Later Sen. Sanders ripped Republicans for claiming that the problem is that children get too much help from the federal government, “These are the same people who want to eliminate the estate tax, which applies to only the top three tenths of one percent of all Americans, which is the richest of the rich, then they are going after kids. The politics of this, Al, is what they are trying to do is deflect attention away from income and wealth inequality. Attention away from the fact that the rich are doing extraordinarily well, and tell their supporters that the real problem in America is that children are getting too much help from the federal government, and that’s the kind of mentality that we have got to fight back against.”

Sen. Sanders nailed it. This is a classic case of Republicans trying to blame the victims of their policies. Republicans crashed the economy, threw millions out of work, then blamed the unemployed, and their children for needing assistance. While the GOP tries to take the food out of the mouths of those who are struggling, the rich continue to get richer.

The Koch brothers won’t have less money if children continue to get free school lunches. The issue is that the people at the very top continue to see their wealth grow while nearly everyone else is struggling to survive.

That’s the dirty little secret that Bernie Sanders exposed.

Republicans refuse to limit themselves to encouraging the wealthy. They are on a mission to take everything away from everyone else, and give it to the rich. Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) has been leading this new smokescreen with a war against the poor that has been disguised as budget cuts and poverty studies.

Ryan and his millionaire Republican brothers are running a shell game. They are trying to convince the American people that the income inequality that is obvious to everyone isn’t a problem. Instead, they want the country to focus on the fact that poor people need to eat.

Video is in link
Paul Ryan Quivers as Bernie Sanders Outs the Dirty Secret Behind His Poverty Propaganda

Thank you for the unbiased point of view.


I'll give it the consideration it's due.

 

[Political Junky]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vFnT4AbJLrw

Thanks for this article. The influence of the Right, in the US, on Uganda has been exposed before. The first I heard about it was from Rachel Maddow, who did a thorough investigation of it.

US influence helps draft Uganda anti-gay bill | MSNBC

 

[Darkwind]

Prove the above.

Will you accept any proof offered?

One has only to compare addiction of drug addicts and those who receive government aid. The answers are right in front of your face, if you bother to go look for them.

Why is it that none of you lefts ever.....I MEAN EVER....advocate to help people get off of government aid and stand on their own with dignity?

So, we base policy on gut instinct now. That's rather interesting. We have this guy on video and we have his voting record. That is fact.

You know, it takes me a good hour to realize that the individual that I am interacting with is mentally ill. It doesn't take me very long to realize that an individual that I am interacting with is intellectually disabled. Then there is the location of services that would be appropriate that are actually nonexistent due to folks like you that want to see lots of people stand on their own with dignity. Doesn't matter if these folks are a danger to themselves or others. It's all about shoving it under the carpet so that you don't have to think about it.

Oh, wait...maybe you were busy demanding that places like Wal-Mart pay their employees enough so that they don't need to rely on state aid?

Or maybe you were on the front lines demanding that they drop the charade to the shortage of qualified STEM folks? Or stopping the outsourcing of American jobs? Or destroying the middle class teaching jobs or post office workers or privatizing this that and the other? No? You weren't there? Then what the hell do you know about liberals and this "advocate to help people get off of government aid and stand on their own with dignity"?


For all others, here is the Paul Ryan interview that he gave the line "Rape is just another ‘method of conception’":
Ryan on abortion exceptions: Rape is just another ?method of conception? | The Raw Story

I had forgotten about this thread. Gives you an idea of the impact you have on...well, anyone.

So, did you answer the question or just go with the personal attack? I realize that you are incapable of critical thought, but maybe just this once, you can think it through?

BTW...addiction studies are far from instinct. Consider the next time you want to spout off about how people are going to die in the streets if we don't give them food stamps and then reflect on what the word dependency means.

Fucking moron.

Now, answer the question. What proof would you be willing to accept?

 

[Plasmaball]

Have some sympathy for the right wing apologists.

They have to convince people who are growing poorer while they see a very small group growing stupidly wealthy, that somehow that is good for this nation.


And its even worse than that, really.

The more the MASTERS control the government and get richer, the harder it becomes to convince the little people who are slowly going down that everything is okay.

That's the problem. They are running out of people to lie to.

your problem is you are nothing more but a parrot and sheep for a party
and you see no shame in it...damn sad

nobody on this site takes you seriously steph

 

[The Rabbi]

Bernie Sanders kind of destroyed him right there.

The only thing Bernie Sanders destroyed is his credibility. And yours.

Except that what he said was true and you'd know that if you weren't spoofed on rightwingnut propaganda.

But feel free to prove what he's wrong about

I love failed rightwing loons who don't understand their own self-interest.

I would go through everything and show you, as usual, have no idea what you're talking about. But since you can't discuss issues beyond "you're stupid" what's the point?