Republicans..The real allies of African Americans

[mdn2000]

Thank you for finally posting an argument about Zinn, even if you don't understand it. Now you could have boiled it down and tell us what the article is saying, but I will do it for you.

Zinn states the marxist observation that entrenched social orders, in America's case he means the wealthy and powerful, will use teachers and professors to enhance their position. I am sure this is true in America, was true in USSR, is true in China, and is true in Iran. Extending the concept then, the scholar and teacher in America must be on guard against parroting the agenda-driven activism of the far left and the far right. In other words, the American teacher must be on guard against the lies of the far left and the far right.

Nice Jake, before I state a thing about the ariticle or Zinn's speech, Jake states I do not understand it. That is a bit much is it not Jake, you have your mind made up that I do not know a thing, you have used how many posts stating I am wrong when I had yet to post a thing about Howard Zinn, as soon as I post Jake is quick to state I am wrong, I do not understand the article, yet I have yet to say a thing about the article or speech. Jake, it seems your a bit full of shit, in my opinion.

Really? so then teachers should push their ideological views on the kids?

Teachers are taught to push their ideological agenda by Liberals and Marxist. Not only teachers but workers inside the government, simple jobs you would not even consider like a Librarian are told to advance the ideology at work, by the selection of books for instance, by choosing which books to be taken off the shelf.

Marxist and Liberals actively instruct other Marxist and Liberals within government to use their position to advance the ideology of Marxism or Liberalism.

Fantastic, huh. To tell you the truth, this morning I had never thought of this but this afternoon its clear.

All sides do it, mdn2000, and indoctrination is wrong. It's not the marxists (by the way, you know, don't you, that libs are not marxies any more than cons are not nazis?) who call for 'To Kill a Mockingbird' or 'Huck Finn' to be removed from libraries.

If we had teachers at the schools here who were indoctrinating libertarian, or Republican, or Democratic, or communist, or whatever, I guarantee you they would not be rehired for the following year.

Jake, I understand there are Liberals, there are Marxist, I also understand that people can pretend to be a Liberal while being a Marxist. If you care to make the assertion a Liberal is never a Marxist nor vice versa make your arguement, simply because Jake says it aint so does not make it not so.

It's not the Marxist that calls for removing Huck Finn from the Library, if you care to make this assertion go ahead, prove your point. It is possible that a Marxist working as a librarian could "damage" a book they do not like and remove it from the shelf. I think that is what Howard Zinn means when Howard Zinn tells people to be politcally active as they choose how to do their job.

Jake, how can you gurantee teachers or professionals within the universities would not be rehired if they secretly were pushing Marxism while they did their job. That is your opinion, nothing more.

Extending the concept then, the scholar and teacher in America must be on guard against parroting the agenda-driven activism of the far left and the far right. In other words, the American teacher must be on guard against the lies of the far left and the far right.

We know that you are mischaracterizing my understanding of the speech and Zinn.

An ineffective and deceitful tactic by both the far right and the far left.

Again you lie. Show where I defended marxism above. Show us where I suggested "Zinn was far from a Marxist".

Right now I am in library school, training to be an archivist, so I'm posting this speech that Howard Zinn made about the archivist profession which has really inspired me. Lately the idea of taking a political position within the profession is something that I have been thinking about a lot

We need good archivists, and I am sure that your instructors will counsel you about the profession carefully.

1. It's good that you are finally posting attempts to support your premises. 2. Correct you lies or show where I have done what you have accused me of doing.

Jake, you do realize that I am not in school to be an Archivist, the person who posted Zinn's speech is in school or was in school to be an Archivist. Did you read the article and the speech? You are a bit confused, it is not me in school.

The person who posted the speech specifically states they are taking a Policial position as an archivist. Zinn inspired this person, not to be neutral, but to advance a political ideology by how they do their job. That is what the article is about.

 

[Care4all]

Historically Significant Black Experiences

Historical Points of Interest

1. One of the primary reasons the Republican Party came into existence was because of its opposition to the Democrat Party’s support and promoting of The Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854. This act repealed the Anti-Slavery Missouri Compromise Law. The Missouri Compromise was an attempt to halt the spread of slavery beyond a certain point in the Louisiana Territory.

2. In 1854 at Jackson, Michigan a group of men met to form a new political party and one of the primary things that they agreed on, was their opposition to slavery and in particular the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854. So while the Democratic Party was feverishly fighting to preserve slavery, the Republicans were meeting in Jackson, Michigan to destroy it.

3. The first candidate the Republican selected was Col. John C. Fremont who ran against pro-slavery candidate, Democrat James Buchanan. Even though Fremont loss it is interesting to know that he was the Republicans first anti-slavery presidential candidate.

4. In 1858, Republican Abraham Lincoln faced Democrat Stephen Douglas in a race for U.S. Senate in Illinois. That campaign became famous for the Lincoln-Douglas debates, with Democrat Stephen Douglas defending slavery and Republican Abraham Lincoln opposing it.

5. Lincoln is quoted as saying in 1858 the following, “A house divided against itself cannot stand. I believe the government cannot endure permanently half slave and half free.” And it was with this attitude that Lincoln became the Republicans first elected president, in 1860.
6. Republican President Lincoln is quoted as saying the following to an Indiana Regiment: “Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.”

7. After experiencing repeated defeats during the Civil War, Lincoln declared, “On many a defeated field there was a voice louder than the thundering of a cannon. It was the voice God, crying, “Let My People go.” We…came to believe it as a great and solemn command.

8. In response to what Lincoln believed to be a divine mandate on January 1, 1863, he issued an edict we commonly call, The Emancipation Proclamation. And even though this act did not free all slaves or solves the slave problem, it led to change for the slave population in this country. (It is said that Lincoln before his death said, “The central act of my administration, and the greatest even of the nineteenth century was the Emancipation Proclamation…
”
9. Two of the greatest fighters for the freedom of the slaves were two Republicans by the name of Charles Sumner and Thaddeus Stevens. Lerone Bennett, Jr. the historian said this regarding these two men. “Charles Sumner and Thaddeus Stevens educated Lincoln, and the country, to a policy of Black Emancipation.” To them, as much as to conservative Lincoln, black people owe their freedom.

10. Republicans Sumner and Stevens were responsible for three (3) amendments to the Constitution which freed black people from slavery, made them citizens with all the rights of all Americans and the right to vote. They did this even though the Democrats fought to prevent them from bringing these laws to pass.

11. Thaddeus Stevens also fought to give every freed slave forty acres of land and a mule, so that slaves could take care of their families

12. The dream of forty acres and a mule was destroyed when Lincoln was killed and his vice president, Andrew Johnson, a Democrat replaced Lincoln and said of Black people, “Black people were inferior to whites and unready for equal rights. So he worked to destroy much of what Republicans had worked and fought so hard for.

13. One of the greatest periods of freedom Blacks ever enjoyed in America was between 1867 and 1877. The Republican Party was responsible for this period of time, and many positive changes took place for Blacks during the time of the enforcement of a series of measures called, Reconstruction Acts. W.E. B. Dubois called this period the, “Mystic Years.”

14. Here are but a few things that happen during the Reconstruction period. A. Hiram Rhodes Revels (Republican) became the first Black in congress, holding the position of U.S. Senator B. Republican Joseph H. Rainey from South Carolina became the first member of the U.S. House of Representatives C. In 1875, Blanche Kelso Bruce of Mississippi was elected to U.S. Senate, the first black to serve a full term in the Senate. In 1871, he was appointed by Republican President James A. Garfield as Registrar of the U.S. Treasury.


15. During the Republican supported period called, Reconstruction, blacks held state offices throughout the South, they were superintendents of education. Black and White children went to school together, interracial marriages were common and we didn’t ride on the back of the bus. Black colleges like Howard, Fisk and Morehouse came into being.

16. The Democrats never accepted the Reconstruction Period, as the last word and they went about to take all these advancements back, through groups such as the Ku Klux Klan. Most klans men were Democrats. Lerone Bennett, Jr. says this about how the Democrats went about destroying the Reconstruction period. “By stealth and murder, by economic intimidation and political assassinations, by whippings and mamings, cuttings and shootings, by the knife, by the rope, by the whip. By the political use of terror, by the braining of the baby in its mothers arms, the slaying of the husband at his wife’s feet, the raping of the wife before her husbands’ eves. By fear….In every state, Democrats attempted to control the votes of their late slaves…and the Democrats succeeded in destroying the greatest time of freedom Blacks ever enjoyed in America.”


17. The great Black Republican abolitionist Frederick Douglass had this to say about the Democratic Party, “…Sir, it is evident that there is in this country a purely slavery party- a party which exists for no other earthly purpose than to promote the interests of slavery….For the present, the best representative of the slavery party in politics is the Democratic party.”

18. During the rebirth of the Civil Rights movement of the 50’s and 60’s the overwhelming number of governors who stood in their respective school doors to block blacks from attending their schools were Democrats such as, Alabama Democratic Governor George Wallace, who stood in the schoolhouse door, Georgia Democratic Governor Lester Maddox stood in his restaurant door with a pistol on his hip and men with ax handles stood behind him to block blacks from coming into his business, Mississippi Governor Ross Barnett declared he would stand against federal laws regarding integration, and then there is Arkansas Governor Orval Faubus who sent his national guard to prevent black children from entering Arkansas schools.

19. On September 25, 1957, Republican President Dwight D. Eisenhower in a record breaking time of a little over three weeks sent federal troops to Arkansas to ensure the safety of black children who were integrating Arkansas schools.

20. The passage of the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 would not have been possible without the strong cohesive support of the Republican. In fact, all Southern Democrats voted against the Civil Rights Act, including Al Gore, Sr. though President Lyndon Johnson was a Democrat he couldn’t get enough votes from his own party to pass civil rights laws, he needed the help of a willing Republican majority.

21. It is reported that over 4000 Ku Klux Klan killings took place during the terrible time of their reign of terror, but a better plan has been developed which eliminates over 400,000 black people every year, this plan has been so effective until Hispanics now out number Blacks in America. This effective gift of genocide comes from the Democratic Party supported practice called, Abortion.

Black History

That's all good history .. MEANINGLESS today.

Fast forward to today and the Republican Party is a shadow of its former self. No connection whatsoever.

Your pro-BORN-life stance has no bearing on the topic.

Try this one on for size ...

Which party do you think all those black elected officials belong to?

That's the Congressional Black Caucus in 1973

Republicans will never have that many black members of Congress.

Today's Republican Party is an all-white party that has no interest in the African-American struggle.

That's not a secret.

So what does that mean? can you refute any of my points? are you concerned about the genicide of black babies? what has the democrat party done for black Americans?

are you saying a black woman does not DECIDE FOR HERSELF on whether she bears the fruit of her womb and some white democrat forced her to choose an abortion?

that's pretty presumptuous on your part, if so....

 

[mdn2000]

Really? so then teachers should push their ideological views on the kids?

Teachers are taught to push their ideological agenda by Liberals and Marxist. Not only teachers but workers inside the government, simple jobs you would not even consider like a Librarian are told to advance the ideology at work, by the selection of books for instance, by choosing which books to be taken off the shelf.

Marxist and Liberals actively instruct other Marxist and Liberals within government to use their position to advance the ideology of Marxism or Liberalism.

Fantastic, huh. To tell you the truth, this morning I had never thought of this but this afternoon its clear.

All sides do it, mdn2000, and indoctrination is wrong. It's not the marxists (by the way, you know, don't you, that libs are not marxies any more than cons are not nazis?) who call for 'To Kill a Mockingbird' or 'Huck Finn' to be removed from libraries.

If we had teachers at the schools here who were indoctrinating libertarian, or Republican, or Democratic, or communist, or whatever, I guarantee you they would not be rehired for the following year.

Extending the concept then, the scholar and teacher in America must be on guard against parroting the agenda-driven activism of the far left and the far right. In other words, the American teacher must be on guard against the lies of the far left and the far right.

This is not what Howard Zinn is saying, this is not the "meaning" of the Howard Zinn's speech. Howard Zinn is clear;

Just Seeds: Blog: Howard Zinn's speech on the necessary rebellion of the archivist

The archivist, even more than the historian and the political scientist, tends to be scrupulous about his neutrality, and to see his job as a technical job, free from the nasty world of political interest: a job of collecting, sorting, preserving, making available, the records of the society. But I will stick by what I have said about other scholars, and argue that the archivist, in subtle ways, tends to perpetuate the political and economic status quo simply by going about his ordinary business. His supposed neutrality is, in other words, a fake.

Howard Zinn states the archivist is not neutral.

If so, the rebellion of the archivist against his normal role is not, as so many scholars fear, the politicizing of a neutral craft, but the humanizing of an inevitably political craft. Scholarship in society is inescapably political. Our choice is not between being political or not. Our choice is to follow the politics of the going order, that is, to do our job within the priorities and directions set by the dominant forces of society, or else to promote those human values of peace, equality, and justice, which our present society denies

Here is a nice little bit from Howard Zinn's speech that makes Howard Zinn's position very clear.

However, if any of these specialists in the accumulation and dissemination of knowledge were to walk over to another part of the playpen, the one marked political sociology, and read Karl Mannheim, who in Ideology and Utopia, points out (following Marx, of course, but it is more prudent to cite Mannheim) that knowledge has a social origin and a social use.

Zinn tells us to read Karl Mannheim, but Zinn is also quick that the idea comes from Marx, of course Karl Mannheim studiend and was infuenced by Marx, as Zinn has. Howard Zinn is showing part of his politically ideology and referencing Mannheim instead of Marx, due to "prudence".

So to know Zinn one must read Ideology and Utopia,

Mannheim, Karl

The conception of human nature that prevails in Ideology and Utopia is one of reason, mediation, and self-reflection. Indeed, "scientific critical self-awareness" on the part of those who work in the social sciences presupposes a certain attribute of the mind, an awareness of the relationship between social structure and systems of thought. This is not to argue that all those participating in social processes are doomed to falsify reality. Nor must they somehow suspend their value judgments and will to action. Instead, Mannheim held that to participate knowingly in social life presupposes that one can understand the often hidden nature of thought about society. Human beings have the potential for self-examination and contextual awareness. And only when these are understood can one have a comprehension of the formal object under study (Mannheim [1936] 1968:46-47...).

Simply put, there is a point in time, a moment of truth, when "the inner connection between our role, our motivations, and our type and manner of experiencing the world suddenly dawns upon us" ([1936] 1968:47). To be sure, some level of social determinism is real, for sociologists and all those who seek to unravel the puzzles of social life (including the puzzle of knowledge itself). None of us is free to exercise some metaphysical power of will. However, to the extent that one uses the power of reason to gain insight into the sources of such determinism, to that extent a relative freedom from determinism is possible. It follows that this potential for simultaneously comprehending self, the socio-historical context, and the object to be analyzed must be realized (especially by sociologists).

Certain assumptions concerning the nature of society remain constant throughout Mannheim's work. He returned again and again to the themes of conflict: of classes (and their systems of thought), of political movements, and of the necessary dissenting role of the intelligentsia. He addressed, as well shall see, the wider ground of the sociology of knowledge, but within that generality, he considered the specific question of ideological structure. However, for Mannheim the "ideological structure does not change independently of the class structure and the class structure does not change independently of the economic structure" ([1936] 1968:130).

This sense of the "structural totality of society" Mannheim attributed to Marx. He built his theoretical system on the threefold structural tendencies of Marx's earlier body of thought: first of all, that the mode of material production shapes the political sphere (and the rest of the "superstructure"); second, that change in the material base is closely connected with "transformations in class relations" and corresponding shifts in power; and third, that idea structures may dominate people at any historical period, but that these ideologies may be understood and their change predicted theoretically.

Nevertheless, unlike Marx, who emphasized that the ideas of the ruling class prevailed, Mannheim held that class-divided societies contain a special stratum for "those individuals whose only capital consisted in their education" ([1936] 1968:156). As this stratum comes to draw from different classes, it will contain contradictory points of view. Hence, the social position of intellectuals is not merely a question of their class origin. Its "multiformity" provides the "potential energy" for members of the intellectual stratum to develop a social sensibility and to grasp the dynamic and conflicting forces of society ([1936] 1968:156-157).

Jake, as far as the pettiness, you started it, I can let it go, its not that big of a deal, get over yourself, Howard Zinn is an awful big topic, I still have to tie this into the propaganda that "Republicans are not freinds of the African American". I aint got time to massage your hurt feelings Jake, in my opinion Jake likes to play the victim. Just how I read your posts Jake, sorry if that is not correct, its just how your posts read.

 

[mdn2000]

.

So what does that mean? can you refute any of my points? are you concerned about the genicide of black babies? what has the democrat party done for black Americans?

Sounds like you need a lesson in Margaret Sanger and Eugenics

BlackGenocide.org | The Truth About Margaret Sanger

At a March 1925 international birth control gathering in New York City, a speaker warned of the menace posed by the "black" and "yellow" peril. The man was not a Nazi or Klansman; he was Dr. S. Adolphus Knopf, a member of Margaret Sanger's American Birth Control League (ABCL), which along with other groups eventually became known as Planned Parenthood.

Sanger's other colleagues included avowed and sophisticated racists. One, Lothrop Stoddard, was a Harvard graduate and the author of The Rising Tide of Color against White Supremacy. Stoddard was something of a Nazi enthusiast who described the eugenic practices of the Third Reich as "scientific" and "humanitarian." And Dr. Harry Laughlin, another Sanger associate and board member for her group, spoke of purifying America's human "breeding stock" and purging America's "bad strains." These "strains" included the "shiftless, ignorant, and worthless class of antisocial whites of the South."

Not to be outdone by her followers, Margaret Sanger spoke of sterilizing those she designated as "unfit," a plan she said would be the "salvation of American civilization.: And she also spike of those who were "irresponsible and reckless," among whom she included those " whose religious scruples prevent their exercising control over their numbers." She further contended that "there is no doubt in the minds of all thinking people that the procreation of this group should be stopped." That many Americans of African origin constituted a segment of Sanger considered "unfit" cannot be easily refuted.

And just to bring everything full circle and back to the topic of this thread, how about a little praise by Howard Zinn to the founder of Planned Parenthood, Margeret Sanger.

Discovering John Reed by Howard Zinn excerpted from the book Howard Zinn on History

It was bad enough that they and their remarkable friends-Max Eastman, Emma Goldman, Lincoln Steffens, Margaret Sanger- spoke out for sexual freedom in a country dominated by Christian righteousness, or opposed militarization in a time of jingoism and war, or advocated socialism when business and government were clubbing and shooting strikers, or welcomed what seemed to them the first proletarian revolution in history.

This is from an article where Howard Zinn is praising John Reed, a Marxist. At least that is my opinion.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Nice Jake, before I state a thing about the ariticle or Zinn's speech, Jake states I do not understand it

mdn2000 does not understand Zinn, that is correct.

Jake, I understand there are Liberals, there are Marxist, I also understand that people can pretend to be a Liberal while being a Marxist. If you care to make the assertion a Liberal is never a Marxist nor vice versa make your arguement, simply because Jake says it aint so does not make it not so.

Please point out where I said such a thing.

It's not the Marxist that calls for removing Huck Finn from the Library, if you care to make this assertion go ahead,

Please point out where I said such a thing.

prove your point. It is possible that a Marxist working as a librarian could "damage" a book they do not like and remove it from the shelf. I think that is what Howard Zinn means when Howard Zinn tells people to be politcally active as they choose how to do their job.

I suppose a Marxist librarian or a Tea Bag archivist could do such a thing.

how can you gurantee teachers or professionals within the universities would not be rehired if they secretly were pushing Marxism while they did their job. That is your opinion, nothing more.

What opinion? You are confused as usual. But I agree with you that Marxist or Tea Bag librarians or archivists working secretly their nefarious art to deceive may well escape detection.

Jake, you do realize that I am not in school to be an Archivist, the person who posted Zinn's speech is in school or was in school to be an Archivist.

Either you poorly copied and paste or you lied. The post as you did it clearly reflects that you were studying to be an archivist. I am glad that you are not studying that art.

I do have a question. Why do you want to be like Zinn or Alisky or Rush? You follow all of their procedures.

 

[Jroc]

That's all good history .. MEANINGLESS today.

Fast forward to today and the Republican Party is a shadow of its former self. No connection whatsoever.

Your pro-BORN-life stance has no bearing on the topic.

Try this one on for size ...

Which party do you think all those black elected officials belong to?

That's the Congressional Black Caucus in 1973

Republicans will never have that many black members of Congress.

Today's Republican Party is an all-white party that has no interest in the African-American struggle.

That's not a secret.

So what does that mean? can you refute any of my points? are you concerned about the genicide of black babies? what has the democrat party done for black Americans?

are you saying a black woman does not DECIDE FOR HERSELF on whether she bears the fruit of her womb and some white democrat forced her to choose an abortion?

that's pretty presumptuous on your part, if so....

I'm saying the democrat party as sold out to the pro- abortion movement and that as been detrimental to African Americans in general . Their abortion rate is 4 times that of whites, and since most blacks have sold out to the democrat party, they don't address this issue, They simply ignore it and then claim Republicans to be racist. Check out the history of Planned Parenthood and checkout were most of their clinics are located abortions are big money.

 

[High_Gravity]

People say black women have the highest abortion rates but at the same time if these same black women kept the children and were unable to care for them and went on welfare and food stamps, people would still complain. It seems like a lose/lose situation.

 

[High_Gravity]

I am a Republican, a black, dyed in the wool Republican, and I never intend to belong to any other party than the party of freedom and progress-Frederick Douglass

 

[mdn2000]

Thank you for finally posting an argument about Zinn, even if you don't understand it. Now you could have boiled it down and tell us what the article is saying, but I will do it for you.

First and foremost Jake you demonstrate you have no understanding of what I posted, this is not an article, had you followed the link you could of seen it was speech. Jake, I posted only a part of the speech.

Lets examine how a person who heard the speech reacted, for this speech is posted by a person listening to Howard Zinn, so this is how this person interpetted and reacted to the words and advice of Howard Zinn.

Howard Zinn was a political activitist.

Just Seeds: Blog: Howard Zinn's speech on the necessary rebellion of the archivist

Right now I am in library school, training to be an archivist, so I'm posting this speech that Howard Zinn made about the archivist profession which has really inspired me. Lately the idea of taking a political position within the profession is something that I have been thinking about a lot

Jake, you do realize that I am not in school to be an Archivist, the person who posted Zinn's speech is in school or was in school to be an Archivist.

Either you poorly copied and paste or you lied. The post as you did it clearly reflects that you were studying to be an archivist. I am glad that you are not studying that art.

Jake, there it is, Jake it seems clear to me you have a ready made defense of Howard Zinn that Jake used without knowing what was posted, as if what is posted is irrelevant. Jake before I posted Zinn's speech you stated I was wrong, that I could not support what I asserted, I asserted that Zinn's teaching material is not suitable to be used to teach history. Jake you have shown your simply stomping and stammering, this was Jakes defense without knowing or reading Zinn's own words. One thing I notice Jake is that Jake cuts off everything another person posts after which Jake replies to something never said or posted.

Even here Jake when I point out you made a gross error you deny you made a mistake or that you have no idea what Zinn stated. It is clear Jake, what I posted came from the article, it has the link right above the quote, nothing is as clear as that. Jake if you cannot remember that or understand that, does Jake think Jake has demonstrated that Jake read and understood Howard Zinn's speech.

Jake you demonstrated Jake does not understand what Howard Zinn stated to the Archivist. Jake, Howard Zinn is an extreme, far, left, liberal, political activist who instructed professionals (artist as Jake calls the government worker in the university library) to advance Liberalism as well as read Marx, read Marx to put their job and role as a professional in perspective.

Jake, its nice to see that in your last post, you have no "debate" to support your assertions and misperceptions. If you were on the college debate team Jake, you would be third string. Jake if you were in the military you would always be a non-rate. Jake, in business you would be thanked for the coffee and donuts.

Jake, that was an example of how Jake could of been a bit more creative, hope Jake does not mind I stole from Jake's idea and made it better.

 

[High_Gravity]

I recognize the Republican party as the sheet anchor of the colored man's political hopes and the ark of his safety-Frederick Douglass

 

[mdn2000]

The Black GOP consists of the great Walter Williams, a black professor, who co-hosts on Rush Limbaugh. Creating false distinctions does play into the hands of the Socialist.
Howard Zinn speaks of property rights, Howard Zinn states the problem in the USA is property rights come before human rights. The two are inseperatable. Howard Zinn expresses much of his Ideology in this speech. Referencing and directing people to read Marx as well as making a statement on our courts and property rights. There are no rights to private property under Marxism. The right to private property is fundamental to our rights under the Constituition. It is the far left Socialist/Marxist which wishes to seperate property rights from human rights.

Just Seeds: Blog: Howard Zinn's speech on the necessary rebellion of the archivist

Our problem with justice is not a corrupt judge or bribed jury but the ordinary day-to-day functioning of the police, the law, the courts, where property rights come before human rights

 

[JakeStarkey]

Before we go forward, mdn2000 must stop acting like Zinn or Alisky or Limbaugh. He makes charges, spreads untruth, and then moves on to something else. So we can ignore everything he is posting until we settle this.

Nice Jake, before I state a thing about the ariticle or Zinn's speech, Jake states I do not understand it

mdn2000 does not understand Zinn, that is correct. mdn2000, you clearly state that property and human rights are interlinked but seem to infer, in fact, that property rights are superior to human rights.

Jake, I understand there are Liberals, there are Marxist, I also understand that people can pretend to be a Liberal while being a Marxist. If you care to make the assertion a Liberal is never a Marxist nor vice versa make your arguement, simply because Jake says it aint so does not make it not so.

Please point out where I said such a thing. mdn2000, please point out where I said that. We don't go forward until you point it out or admit, if you are not lying, you are mistaken.

It's not the Marxist that calls for removing Huck Finn from the Library, if you care to make this assertion go ahead,

Please point out where I said such a thing. mdn2000, please point out where I said that. We don't go forward until you point it out or admit, if you are not lying, you are mistaken.

prove your point. It is possible that a Marxist working as a librarian could "damage" a book they do not like and remove it from the shelf. I think that is what Howard Zinn means when Howard Zinn tells people to be politcally active as they choose how to do their job.

I suppose a Marxist librarian or a Tea Bag archivist could do such a thing.

how can you gurantee teachers or professionals within the universities would not be rehired if they secretly were pushing Marxism while they did their job. That is your opinion, nothing more.

What opinion? You are confused as usual. But I agree with you that Marxist or Tea Bag librarians or archivists working secretly their nefarious art to deceive may well escape detection.

mdn2000, please point out where I said the things of which you accuse me. I are you a liar.

Jake, you do realize that I am not in school to be an Archivist, the person who posted Zinn's speech is in school or was in school to be an Archivist.

Either you poorly copied and paste or you lied. The post as you did it clearly reflects that you were studying to be an archivist. I am glad that you are not studying that art.

I do have a question. Why do you want to be like Zinn or Alisky or Rush? You follow all of their procedures.

 

[mdn2000]

Thank you for finally posting an argument about Zinn, even if you don't understand it. Now you could have boiled it down and tell us what the article is saying, but I will do it for you.

First and foremost Jake you demonstrate you have no understanding of what I posted, this is not an article, had you followed the link you could of seen it was speech. Jake, I posted only a part of the speech.

Lets examine how a person who heard the speech reacted, for this speech is posted by a person listening to Howard Zinn, so this is how this person interpetted and reacted to the words and advice of Howard Zinn.

Howard Zinn was a political activitist.

Just Seeds: Blog: Howard Zinn's speech on the necessary rebellion of the archivist

Jake, you do realize that I am not in school to be an Archivist, the person who posted Zinn's speech is in school or was in school to be an Archivist.

Either you poorly copied and paste or you lied. The post as you did it clearly reflects that you were studying to be an archivist. I am glad that you are not studying that art.

Jake, there it is, Jake it seems clear to me you have a ready made defense of Howard Zinn that Jake used without knowing what was posted, as if what is posted is irrelevant. Jake before I posted Zinn's speech you stated I was wrong, that I could not support what I asserted, I asserted that Zinn's teaching material is not suitable to be used to teach history. Jake you have shown your simply stomping and stammering, this was Jakes defense without knowing or reading Zinn's own words. One thing I notice Jake is that Jake cuts off everything another person posts after which Jake replies to something never said or posted.

Even here Jake when I point out you made a gross error you deny you made a mistake or that you have no idea what Zinn stated. It is clear Jake, what I posted came from the article, it has the link right above the quote, nothing is as clear as that. Jake if you cannot remember that or understand that, does Jake think Jake has demonstrated that Jake read and understood Howard Zinn's speech.

Jake you demonstrated Jake does not understand what Howard Zinn stated to the Archivist. Jake, Howard Zinn is an extreme, far, left, liberal, political activist who instructed professionals (artist as Jake calls the government worker in the university library) to advance Liberalism as well as read Marx, read Marx to put their job and role as a professional in perspective.

Jake, its nice to see that in your last post, you have no "debate" to support your assertions and misperceptions. If you were on the college debate team Jake, you would be third string. Jake if you were in the military you would always be a non-rate. Jake, in business you would be thanked for the coffee and donuts.

Jake, that was an example of how Jake could of been a bit more creative, hope Jake does not mind I stole from Jake's idea and made it better.

Jake, get over yourself, I am not going to argue with you about what you said or did not say when your not quoting my posts at the same time your making things up, get a clue, I presented Howard Zinn, now Jake is stomping and stammering playing the victim. Jake if you did not mean the things you said, go back and correct them, thats all.

What about this post, how did you get this wrong, you care to answer this question maybe I will address one of your rants. Jake you should quit whining, it looks bad on you.

 

[mdn2000]

Really? so then teachers should push their ideological views on the kids?

Teachers are taught to push their ideological agenda by Liberals and Marxist. Not only teachers but workers inside the government, simple jobs you would not even consider like a Librarian are told to advance the ideology at work, by the selection of books for instance, by choosing which books to be taken off the shelf.

Marxist and Liberals actively instruct other Marxist and Liberals within government to use their position to advance the ideology of Marxism or Liberalism.

Fantastic, huh. To tell you the truth, this morning I had never thought of this but this afternoon its clear.

All sides do it, mdn2000, and indoctrination is wrong. It's not the marxists (by the way, you know, don't you, that libs are not marxies any more than cons are not nazis?) who call for 'To Kill a Mockingbird' or 'Huck Finn' to be removed from libraries.

If we had teachers at the schools here who were indoctrinating libertarian, or Republican, or Democratic, or communist, or whatever, I guarantee you they would not be rehired for the following year.

Then go to college, learn the discipline of history and of pedagogy, and if you still don't like Zinn, don't use him. I gave a call to a friend over at the U, and he says no one he knows there uses Zinn or Chomsky as models for teaching, but if they did, who could possibly care?

Jake, did you actually call a freind so that you could assert Howard Zinn's material is not being used in schools? It seems you are kind of ignorant of who Howard Zinn is and just how active politically Howard Zinn was.

Howard Zinn's book on history is used as well as his ideas. Pretty terrible, finally we have it official, we are indoctrinating children with the specific hard left ideology of Howard Zinn. Howard Zinn even infects Math with his Marxist inpired politcal philosophy. Socialism is to be taught in Math, its not that Johnny has ten apples, its that Johnny has ten apples to re-distribute.

This is just the tip of the iceburg. The reason we must have a debate on who is good for African Americans is because of the extreme far left activist such as Howard Zinn.

Zinn Education Project – About

The Zinn Education Project promotes and supports the use of Howard Zinn’s best-selling book A People’s History of the United States and other materials for teaching a people’s history in middle and high school classrooms across the country. The Zinn Education Project is coordinated by two non-profit organizations, Rethinking Schools and Teaching for Change.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You are flustered, aren't you, mdn2000? You said I supported Zinn, and when challenged, you shifted your argument. You did this several items, and lied on three others. You are a walking Alinskie/Limbaugh/Zinn, mdn2000, with minor players throw in. You are fun to watch play the fool.

Mdn2000 strategies

1. scream any charges that have no basis in fact - the more outrageous the better (a la Alinski)
2. no attempt to offer reliable sources
3. ignore being called out on your lies (a la Limbaugh)
4. make the same statements over and over and over the same argument over and over again (a la Olbermann)
5. When caught on, start posting over and over again stuff that means nothing

You are Board schizophrenic.

 

[mdn2000]

You are flustered, aren't you, mdn2000? You said I supported Zinn, and when challenged, you shifted your argument. You did this several items, and lied on three others. You are a walking Alinskie/Limbaugh/Zinn, mdn2000, with minor players throw in. You are fun to watch play the fool.

Mdn2000 strategies

1. scream any charges that have no basis in fact - the more outrageous the better (a la Alinski)
2. no attempt to offer reliable sources
3. ignore being called out on your lies (a la Limbaugh)
4. make the same statements over and over and over the same argument over and over again (a la Olbermann)
5. When caught on, start posting over and over again stuff that means nothing
You are Board schizophrenic.

1. scream any charges that have no basis in fact - the more outrageous the better (a la Alinski)

Life is a market place of ideas in competition, yet you wish to act like a follower of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Pinochet, Diaz.

Only you are equating Zinn and Chomsky with Hitler, which is an incredible stretch of the imagination.

2. no attempt to offer reliable sources

Howard Zinn's speech on the necessary rebellion of the archivist

3. ignore being called out on your lies (a la Limbaugh)
You made an assertion without proof, if you care to quote entire posts, in context I will reply.

4. make the same statements over and over and over the same argument over and over again (a la Olbermann)

I hope you understand now what I wrote earlier and try to misinterpret, deliberately or not, what I am saying..

mdn2000 made a response. I answered clearly and succinctly. He then tried to dodge and then said we were messing up Jroc's thread. Whatever. mdn2000 does not like answering questions, but that is how discussions are developed

mdn2000, as usual, makes wide, sweeping accusations that he can't support

why to apologize mdn2000 when he has no idea what he is talking about when it comes to Zinn.

You have made the assertion that Zinn's work is bad for teaching history

mdn2000, you have offered a mere assertion. That means nothing unless you give evidence for it, before you can ask others to refute it. Don't you understand this. You have lost the discussion if you don't do this.

mdn2000 really wants me to rebut an assertion with evidence although he refuses to support his assertion. He clearly can't defend it.

Number 5. Thanks for telling us how Jake operates.

Jake I repeatedly asked if you wanted Zinn's material taught in school, you stated that you called your freind and he saw no problem, you then looked at Zinn's speech and could not even comprehend it was a speech from Zinn, when the title and the person who used the speech in an Article was clear. On reading the Speech you stated the person was merely telling people to be neutral, you further stated that if anyone tried to teach Communsit ideology they would never be rehired.

I posted Howard Zinn's own words.

2. no attempt to offer reliable sources

I posted Howard Zinn's own words. That is not reliable. Jake its almost as if you smoke a lot of Dope and cannot remember or comprehend what you read.

You even replied to the author of the article as if that was me.

Where you colors well Jake, you are nothing more than a troll who supports the Far Left Liberal Marxist Howard Zinn.

Jake, you jumped through hoops to state this;

Thank you for finally posting an argument about Zinn, even if you don't understand it. Now you could have boiled it down and tell us what the article is saying, but I will do it for you.

the American teacher must be on guard against the lies of the far left and the far right.

Howard Zinn's speech on the necessary rebellion of the archivist

Thiat is the title of the article. Jake if you had any idea of what you speak, or if you are who you say you are, you would of kept your fly-trap shut.

 

[mdn2000]

Jake, you have proved yourself a troll, a fool, and not a Republican, I am done addressing your tired whining, crying, and ranting.

I will give you the last word Jake, lets see if you choose to support Howard Zinn, attack the messenger, or play the victim.

Just close as in a closing arguement, I say that because like I said, I will not be involved in your little circle jerk, it was fun exposing Jake for who Jake is but I must go on, if you care to support your position as to how or why Howard Zinn is good material for a high school student I will gladly debate you.

 

[JakeStarkey]

<snip>

You are flustered, aren't you, mdn2000? You said I supported Zinn, and when challenged, you shifted your argument. You did this several items, and lied on three others. You are a walking Alinskie/Limbaugh/Zinn, mdn2000, with minor players throw in. You are fun to watch play the fool.

Mdn2000 strategies

1. scream any charges that have no basis in fact - the more outrageous the better (a la Alinski)
2. no attempt to offer reliable sources
3. ignore being called out on your lies (a la Limbaugh)
4. make the same statements over and over and over the same argument over and over again (a la Olbermann)
5. When caught on, start posting over and over again stuff that means nothing
You are Board schizophrenic.

mdn2000 has "proved yourself a troll, a fool, and not a Republican".

 

[bodecea]

Historically Significant Black Experiences

Historical Points of Interest

1. One of the primary reasons the Republican Party came into existence was because of its opposition to the Democrat Party’s support and promoting of The Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854. This act repealed the Anti-Slavery Missouri Compromise Law. The Missouri Compromise was an attempt to halt the spread of slavery beyond a certain point in the Louisiana Territory.

2. In 1854 at Jackson, Michigan a group of men met to form a new political party and one of the primary things that they agreed on, was their opposition to slavery and in particular the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854. So while the Democratic Party was feverishly fighting to preserve slavery, the Republicans were meeting in Jackson, Michigan to destroy it.

3. The first candidate the Republican selected was Col. John C. Fremont who ran against pro-slavery candidate, Democrat James Buchanan. Even though Fremont loss it is interesting to know that he was the Republicans first anti-slavery presidential candidate.

4. In 1858, Republican Abraham Lincoln faced Democrat Stephen Douglas in a race for U.S. Senate in Illinois. That campaign became famous for the Lincoln-Douglas debates, with Democrat Stephen Douglas defending slavery and Republican Abraham Lincoln opposing it.

5. Lincoln is quoted as saying in 1858 the following, “A house divided against itself cannot stand. I believe the government cannot endure permanently half slave and half free.” And it was with this attitude that Lincoln became the Republicans first elected president, in 1860.
6. Republican President Lincoln is quoted as saying the following to an Indiana Regiment: “Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.”

7. After experiencing repeated defeats during the Civil War, Lincoln declared, “On many a defeated field there was a voice louder than the thundering of a cannon. It was the voice God, crying, “Let My People go.” We…came to believe it as a great and solemn command.

8. In response to what Lincoln believed to be a divine mandate on January 1, 1863, he issued an edict we commonly call, The Emancipation Proclamation. And even though this act did not free all slaves or solves the slave problem, it led to change for the slave population in this country. (It is said that Lincoln before his death said, “The central act of my administration, and the greatest even of the nineteenth century was the Emancipation Proclamation…
”
9. Two of the greatest fighters for the freedom of the slaves were two Republicans by the name of Charles Sumner and Thaddeus Stevens. Lerone Bennett, Jr. the historian said this regarding these two men. “Charles Sumner and Thaddeus Stevens educated Lincoln, and the country, to a policy of Black Emancipation.” To them, as much as to conservative Lincoln, black people owe their freedom.

10. Republicans Sumner and Stevens were responsible for three (3) amendments to the Constitution which freed black people from slavery, made them citizens with all the rights of all Americans and the right to vote. They did this even though the Democrats fought to prevent them from bringing these laws to pass.

11. Thaddeus Stevens also fought to give every freed slave forty acres of land and a mule, so that slaves could take care of their families

12. The dream of forty acres and a mule was destroyed when Lincoln was killed and his vice president, Andrew Johnson, a Democrat replaced Lincoln and said of Black people, “Black people were inferior to whites and unready for equal rights. So he worked to destroy much of what Republicans had worked and fought so hard for.

13. One of the greatest periods of freedom Blacks ever enjoyed in America was between 1867 and 1877. The Republican Party was responsible for this period of time, and many positive changes took place for Blacks during the time of the enforcement of a series of measures called, Reconstruction Acts. W.E. B. Dubois called this period the, “Mystic Years.”

14. Here are but a few things that happen during the Reconstruction period. A. Hiram Rhodes Revels (Republican) became the first Black in congress, holding the position of U.S. Senator B. Republican Joseph H. Rainey from South Carolina became the first member of the U.S. House of Representatives C. In 1875, Blanche Kelso Bruce of Mississippi was elected to U.S. Senate, the first black to serve a full term in the Senate. In 1871, he was appointed by Republican President James A. Garfield as Registrar of the U.S. Treasury.


15. During the Republican supported period called, Reconstruction, blacks held state offices throughout the South, they were superintendents of education. Black and White children went to school together, interracial marriages were common and we didn’t ride on the back of the bus. Black colleges like Howard, Fisk and Morehouse came into being.

16. The Democrats never accepted the Reconstruction Period, as the last word and they went about to take all these advancements back, through groups such as the Ku Klux Klan. Most klans men were Democrats. Lerone Bennett, Jr. says this about how the Democrats went about destroying the Reconstruction period. “By stealth and murder, by economic intimidation and political assassinations, by whippings and mamings, cuttings and shootings, by the knife, by the rope, by the whip. By the political use of terror, by the braining of the baby in its mothers arms, the slaying of the husband at his wife’s feet, the raping of the wife before her husbands’ eves. By fear….In every state, Democrats attempted to control the votes of their late slaves…and the Democrats succeeded in destroying the greatest time of freedom Blacks ever enjoyed in America.”


17. The great Black Republican abolitionist Frederick Douglass had this to say about the Democratic Party, “…Sir, it is evident that there is in this country a purely slavery party- a party which exists for no other earthly purpose than to promote the interests of slavery….For the present, the best representative of the slavery party in politics is the Democratic party.”

18. During the rebirth of the Civil Rights movement of the 50’s and 60’s the overwhelming number of governors who stood in their respective school doors to block blacks from attending their schools were Democrats such as, Alabama Democratic Governor George Wallace, who stood in the schoolhouse door, Georgia Democratic Governor Lester Maddox stood in his restaurant door with a pistol on his hip and men with ax handles stood behind him to block blacks from coming into his business, Mississippi Governor Ross Barnett declared he would stand against federal laws regarding integration, and then there is Arkansas Governor Orval Faubus who sent his national guard to prevent black children from entering Arkansas schools.

19. On September 25, 1957, Republican President Dwight D. Eisenhower in a record breaking time of a little over three weeks sent federal troops to Arkansas to ensure the safety of black children who were integrating Arkansas schools.

20. The passage of the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 would not have been possible without the strong cohesive support of the Republican. In fact, all Southern Democrats voted against the Civil Rights Act, including Al Gore, Sr. though President Lyndon Johnson was a Democrat he couldn’t get enough votes from his own party to pass civil rights laws, he needed the help of a willing Republican majority.

21. It is reported that over 4000 Ku Klux Klan killings took place during the terrible time of their reign of terror, but a better plan has been developed which eliminates over 400,000 black people every year, this plan has been so effective until Hispanics now out number Blacks in America. This effective gift of genocide comes from the Democratic Party supported practice called, Abortion.

Black History

And then they sold them out in the 1976 presidential election.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

http://www.youtube.com/user/machosauceproduction#p/a/u/0/xryXpK042pQ
Here is a good explanation.