Roosevelt....the Un-Reagan

[Wry Catcher]

70 years since FDR's death.

70 years of conservative attacks, lies, and efforts to impeach FDR's legacy.

70 years of rightwing failure, this thread another example of that failure.

FDR was a great POTUS, in line with Washington, Lincoln, his Cousin TR and Jefferson.

Ranking Every U.S. President from Worst to First

See the top 15, Conservatives read and weep.

 

[Dot Com]

I read the first sentence. It's typical you, the genere of "ain't ____ awful"; the blank reserved for every Democratic President, all liberals, progressives and human beings who hold opinions which differ from your own.

Speaking to your opinions, they are biased, bullshit and boring. You are predictable, partisan and pestiferous (I'll help you here, pestiferous: morally evil and dangerous to society).

Watch your language, Liberal.


Documentation of the joined-at-the-hip relationship of Hitler and Stalin....and, therefore, Roosevelt.

"The Soviet Story," an award winning documentary clarifying the close and personal attachments of Hitler's Nazis and Stalin's Communists.

"Soviet Story" is the most powerful antidote yet to the sanitisation of the past. The film is gripping, audacious and uncompromising. [...] The main aim of the film is to show the close connections—philosophical, political and organisational—between the Nazi and Soviet systems." http://www.economist.com/node/11401983


Don't be afraid of education.....go ahead and watch the acclaimed documentary.

I did read this link, but I didn't read the OP so I didn't lie.

That said, there is no mention of FDR in The Soviet Story link, and what was described was the commonality of despotic rule in totalitarian societies. A far cry from anything we've have encountered under FDR or any other POTUS and not something anyone knowledgeable and honest about the history of the 20th Century would dispute.

Except for the fact that there wouldn't have been a Soviet communist totalitarian regime sans the tireless efforts of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

History by real historians, not partisan hacks:

The War Against Germany: Despite these early battles in the Pacific, from the beginning of the war the U.S. and Great Britain agreed that their top priority was to defeat Hitler�s Germany, which was deemed the greater military threat. Japan could be finished off after Germany surrendered. The U.S. and Great Britain � the "Western Allies" � worked very closely together in planning and fighting the war. There were tensions between the Western Allies and the Soviet Union, however, which was fighting a savage war against Germany in the East. One recurring source of tension was the issue of a "Second Front." With Western Europe under his control, Hitler could concentrate his forces on attempting to defeat the Soviet Union. Joseph Stalin desperately wanted the Western Allies to open up a Second Front by invading Western Europe, thus forcing Germany to divided its forces between Eastern and Western Fronts. FDR repeatedly promised Stalin that a Second Front was imminent, but the more cautious Churchill always forced delays. Stalin, suspicious of western intentions, believed that the Western Allies were simply content to sit back and allow the Soviets to do all of the fighting and dying in the war against Hitler. The British, Americans, and Soviets remained Allies, but there were always undercurrents of suspicion and mistrust between them.

http://www.westga.edu/~hgoodson/World War II.htm

Stop being such a moron.
Do your best.

1. There were lots of 'Second Fronts'...but the only one that Stalin would accept was way off in western France, so that he could grab all of Eastern Europe.

The first front was created by the Nazi attack, "Operation Barbarossa," and the constant demands by Stalin that the Allies open another front to draw off the Germans from Russia.

The unspoken sentiment is that the Germans would defeat the Soviets, and that they desperately needed that 'Second Front.'

What proof of that 'fear' exists? Looking at the great tank battle of Kursk, or a study of Russia's 'three greatest generals, December, January, and February,' certainly don't support same.

No, the truth is that FDR's affections for Stalin and Soviet Communism found it useful to claim that without American support.....the end was near for Uncle Joe


a. What does history tell us about similar attempts to conquer the Russian bear?

"Napoleon began his invasion 550 miles from Moscow and 420 miles from St. Petersburg. Hitler began his invasion from a similar distance."Why Russia Is Marching mdash and Eastern Europe Is Afraid - theTrumpet.com
How did that turn out for the attackers?

2. So....what's all this about a dire need for a "Second Front"....and why did Stalin insist it had to be via the northwestern corner of the continent rather than the south, from Italy and the Adriatic?

And why forbid the allies to allow the surrender of Germany, which would have saved countless American lives?

More to the point....why did Roosevelt go along with this?
Starting to see the truth about Franklin Delano Roosevelt?


3. So.....did it really matter where the 'second front' is located?
Stalin was adamant about it forming via the northwestern edge of the continent rather than abide by Churchill's wish, Italy.


a. Consider the analysis of NYTimes Russia expert, Edwin James:
" ALLIED FRONT IN ITALY NOT SO FAR FROM REICH; In Other Words, It Is Just as Close to Germany From Any Peninsula Point As It Is From Dnieper THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE"
By EDWIN L. JAMES
September 12, 1943
Pay Articles from September 1943 Part 4 - Site Map - The New York Times

So....why did Stalin insist on the Allies opening the front at Normandy rather than the bases already conquered in Italy?

Here's why: he wanted the Red Army to cut Europe in half , as he would be able to occupy same.

And Roosevelt agreed with him....Roosevelt wanted to give all of Eastern Europe over to this homicidal maniac who slaughtered and oppressed millions!



b.Don't believe that that was the reason for Stalin's insistence on the "second front" being as far west as possible?

"Any time or any place where German forces are engaged by the American and the British represents good luck for Stalin. That is true because Hitler's strength is taxed just as much by fighting to the south as it would be fighting to the west."
Diana West, "American Betrayal," p. 266.
How can one argue with that?


Well.....only if "taxing Hitler's strength" wasn't the aim.....gaining the territory of central Europe for the Red Army was.



c. 'To withdraw from the European continent [Italy] to re-invade the European continent was simply crazy.'
Dunn, "Caught Between Roosevelt and Stalin," p.195-196
Yet, Roosevelt sided with Stalin over Churchill, and over General Mark Clark, commander of the 5th US Army, in Italy.
Why?



Still care to deny that Stalin was in charge of Roosevelt's war efforts?
...and Stalin would get his way down to the last American casualty?

In the effort to install world-wide communism, any loss to either America, or to Germany, was a gain for Stalin.

Thank you, Franklin Roosevelt



Did you know that Eisenhower agreed with Churchill that Italy was the correct attack point.....until he was bought off by George Marshall with a fifth star?

Of course you didn't, you uneducated imbecile.

That was a ginormous cutnpaste!!!

Sent from my BN NookHD+ using Tapatalk

 

[Syriusly]

FDR saved Western Europe
Stalin conquered Eastern Europe. Nothing short of declaring war on the USSR was going to dislodge them

To get his part of Europe, FDR lost about 200,000 Americans
To get his part of Europe, Stalin lost about 20 million Russians

Looks like FDR got the better part of the deal

Stalin didn't spend 20 million to get his part of Eastern Europe. He was invaded.

Please don't be such a liar.

You'd figure that with so many losses, he be spent. Which he was.

FDR and Churchhill caved on the Eastern Europe.

I am sure the people of East Berlin felt that FDR got the better part of the deal.

Can you be any more stupid ?

Eastern Europe was not a bargaining chip. It was occupied by the Red Army
The part of the deal FDR got was West Berlin right in the middle of occupied East Germany

You are right.....Roosevelt didn't bargain or try to force him out.

No threats...no nothing.

Rolled over and caved.

Eastern Europe really flourished under Stalin.

There was nothing to bargain

You were not going to remove the Red Army from territory they fought and died for

What were you going to offer Stalin to get his troops out of Eastern Europe?

Uh...not cramming a hydrogen bomb up his ass.

Not to good at this....are you.

Neither was FDR.

The major rollover and cave guy.

Seriously- are you actually ignorant of history?

When FDR met with Stalin the United States did not have a single functioning atomic bomb- let alone a hydrogen bomb.

When Truman authorized the bombing of Japan- we had two atomic bombs(one was successfully tested)- and bluffed the Japanese into thinking we had more.

FDR led the United States from the Great Depression to the most complete American victories in our history.

Of course you despise him.

 

[HenryBHough]

It took a truly great president to figure out the best way to end a depression was to kill millions!

 

[Syriusly]

FDR saved Western Europe
Stalin conquered Eastern Europe. Nothing short of declaring war on the USSR was going to dislodge them

To get his part of Europe, FDR lost about 200,000 Americans
To get his part of Europe, Stalin lost about 20 million Russians

Looks like FDR got the better part of the deal

Stalin didn't spend 20 million to get his part of Eastern Europe. He was invaded.

Please don't be such a liar.

You'd figure that with so many losses, he be spent. Which he was.

FDR and Churchhill caved on the Eastern Europe.

I am sure the people of East Berlin felt that FDR got the better part of the deal.

Can you be any more stupid ?

Eastern Europe was not a bargaining chip. It was occupied by the Red Army
The part of the deal FDR got was West Berlin right in the middle of occupied East Germany

You are right.....Roosevelt didn't bargain or try to force him out.

No threats...no nothing.

Rolled over and caved.

Eastern Europe really flourished under Stalin.

Eastern Europe got screwed by Stalin.

Feel free to tell us what FDR could have actually done better.

The United States was involved in a two front war with Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan- the Soviets had the most powerful army in the world at that time- and was driving the Germans back to Berlin. The United States desperately wanted the Soviets to come into the war against Japan- since at that time we were projecting 1,000,000 American casualties for the invasion of Japan. And remember- the American people thought of the USSR as our ally.

FDR got assurances of freedom for Eastern Europe that Stalin wiped his ass with.

What specific things do you think FDR should have- and could have- done differently?

And how many American lives would it have been acceptable to you to lose doing it.

Tell me just why did we go to war with Germany.

And why those same principles would not apply to the USSR. We got a lot of men killed taking on the Krauts.

And how did we avoid a lot of loss of life in a fight with Japan......?

Don't think Stalin would have negotiated with the thread of an A-bomb over his head.

Of course, FDR would have had to be willing to obliterate Moscow.....no balls.

Once again- you are displaying sheer ignorance.

The United States went to war with Germany- because Germany declared war on the United States- a very stupid move on Germany's part- since if Hitler had not declared war, Roosevelt probably would have been forced to confront only Japan- leaving Hitler to the Soviets- which would have led to one of two conclusions- a German victory- or a Soviet victory that left the USSR with all of Western Europe.

FDR led the United States out of the Great Depression and led the United States to victory in WW2- of course you despise him.

 

[Syriusly]

Yes, I think we've pretty much established that Roosevelt was a gutless wonder.

All we have established is your complete ignorance of history.

 

[Syriusly]

70 years since FDR's death.

70 years of conservative attacks, lies, and efforts to impeach FDR's legacy.

70 years of rightwing failure, this thread another example of that failure.

What they will not address are what they would have preferred- other than FDR's accomplishments

• Leading the United States to victory in WW2
• Leading the United States out of the Depression
• Creating social security
• Creating unemployment insurance.
• Creating bank depositer's insurance
• Saving American farmers

There is a reason why FDR was overwhelmingly popular- so popular that the GOP became almost irrelevant during that issue- FDR cared about Americans and had vision.

 

[Syriusly]

So....what, exactly, did Stalin want from American foreign policy?

Who gives a damn what Stalin wanted?

Why exactly do prefer Hitler over FDR?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Which, in turn is bringing out the Pee Wee Herman in you.

Actually, when dealing with Political Chic

Pee Wee is more than enough

But not when dealing with Ann Coulter.

You are pathetic.

I actually find Ann Coulter amusing. She has figured out a persona to sell and the rightwing eats it up. But even though I disagree with what she says...she has a biting wit that is entertaining

Political Chic is just tedious. I would love to debate what she actually says but she cuts and pastes so much crap it is hard to find a point in all the mindless drooling

It's so simple to deflate the blimp you've become....
...time for more B-12 shots?

1. "I actually find Ann Coulter amusing."
You've never read any of the scholarly and well documented best sellers Queen Ann has written.

2. "Political Chic is just tedious. I would love to debate what she actually says but she cuts and pastes."
Cut and paste is the manner of presentation...not the factual material provided.
And...you don't have enough knowledge to debate me.

Not one single thing I've posted....and documented and sourced via 'cut and paste' has been shown to be less than accurate.

And it will continue so.

I'd rather engage in an intellectual discussion with Stephanie

She brings more to the table

You've not engaged in an intellectual discussion since you joined the board from what I've seen.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Stalin didn't spend 20 million to get his part of Eastern Europe. He was invaded.

Please don't be such a liar.

You'd figure that with so many losses, he be spent. Which he was.

FDR and Churchhill caved on the Eastern Europe.

I am sure the people of East Berlin felt that FDR got the better part of the deal.

Can you be any more stupid ?

Eastern Europe was not a bargaining chip. It was occupied by the Red Army
The part of the deal FDR got was West Berlin right in the middle of occupied East Germany

You are right.....Roosevelt didn't bargain or try to force him out.

No threats...no nothing.

Rolled over and caved.

Eastern Europe really flourished under Stalin.

Eastern Europe got screwed by Stalin.

Feel free to tell us what FDR could have actually done better.

The United States was involved in a two front war with Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan- the Soviets had the most powerful army in the world at that time- and was driving the Germans back to Berlin. The United States desperately wanted the Soviets to come into the war against Japan- since at that time we were projecting 1,000,000 American casualties for the invasion of Japan. And remember- the American people thought of the USSR as our ally.

FDR got assurances of freedom for Eastern Europe that Stalin wiped his ass with.

What specific things do you think FDR should have- and could have- done differently?

And how many American lives would it have been acceptable to you to lose doing it.

Tell me just why did we go to war with Germany.

And why those same principles would not apply to the USSR. We got a lot of men killed taking on the Krauts.

And how did we avoid a lot of loss of life in a fight with Japan......?

Don't think Stalin would have negotiated with the thread of an A-bomb over his head.

Of course, FDR would have had to be willing to obliterate Moscow.....no balls.

Once again- you are displaying sheer ignorance.

The United States went to war with Germany- because Germany declared war on the United States- a very stupid move on Germany's part- since if Hitler had not declared war, Roosevelt probably would have been forced to confront only Japan- leaving Hitler to the Soviets- which would have led to one of two conclusions- a German victory- or a Soviet victory that left the USSR with all of Western Europe.

FDR led the United States out of the Great Depression and led the United States to victory in WW2- of course you despise him.

ROTFLMAO

Had Germany and the USSR gone at it without Germany's being at war with us......neither would have been meaningful afterwards.

FDR only helped the USSR...unknowingly.....but stupidly.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

BTW:

I don't agree with her half the time.

On her worse day....she's 100 x the poster you've ever been.

Admit you gloss over the crap she posts too

If not, why don't you actually reply to what she posts?

So.....why are you unable to find a single mistake in my posts?

Wanna guess?

I gave up reading your posts years ago
Not worth the effort.....I'd rather read Stephanie

So you respond to post you don't read?

I speak to the topic of her threads
What she actually posts does little to support the topic

At least it's a little...you provide NOTHING to support your assertions.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Yes, I think we've pretty much established that Roosevelt was a gutless wonder.

All we have established is your complete ignorance of history.

Only is your sorry adolescent wet dreams.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

70 years since FDR's death.

70 years of conservative attacks, lies, and efforts to impeach FDR's legacy.

70 years of rightwing failure, this thread another example of that failure.

FDR was a great POTUS, in line with Washington, Lincoln, his Cousin TR and Jefferson.

Ranking Every U.S. President from Worst to First

See the top 15, Conservatives read and weep.

What a joke.

Johnston was last.

He stood up against the way the 14th was shoved down the south's throat....and that puts him last ?

Morons.

FDR's new deal was credited with ending the Great Depression......???

By who ?

 

[Syriusly]

Eastern Europe was not a bargaining chip. It was occupied by the Red Army
The part of the deal FDR got was West Berlin right in the middle of occupied East Germany

You are right.....Roosevelt didn't bargain or try to force him out.

No threats...no nothing.

Rolled over and caved.

Eastern Europe really flourished under Stalin.

Eastern Europe got screwed by Stalin.

Feel free to tell us what FDR could have actually done better.

The United States was involved in a two front war with Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan- the Soviets had the most powerful army in the world at that time- and was driving the Germans back to Berlin. The United States desperately wanted the Soviets to come into the war against Japan- since at that time we were projecting 1,000,000 American casualties for the invasion of Japan. And remember- the American people thought of the USSR as our ally.

FDR got assurances of freedom for Eastern Europe that Stalin wiped his ass with.

What specific things do you think FDR should have- and could have- done differently?

And how many American lives would it have been acceptable to you to lose doing it.

Tell me just why did we go to war with Germany.

And why those same principles would not apply to the USSR. We got a lot of men killed taking on the Krauts.

And how did we avoid a lot of loss of life in a fight with Japan......?

Don't think Stalin would have negotiated with the thread of an A-bomb over his head.

Of course, FDR would have had to be willing to obliterate Moscow.....no balls.

Once again- you are displaying sheer ignorance.

The United States went to war with Germany- because Germany declared war on the United States- a very stupid move on Germany's part- since if Hitler had not declared war, Roosevelt probably would have been forced to confront only Japan- leaving Hitler to the Soviets- which would have led to one of two conclusions- a German victory- or a Soviet victory that left the USSR with all of Western Europe.

FDR led the United States out of the Great Depression and led the United States to victory in WW2- of course you despise him.

ROTFLMAO

Had Germany and the USSR gone at it without Germany's being at war with us......neither would have been meaningful afterwards.

FDR only helped the USSR...unknowingly.....but stupidly.

And you know this because of your great study of history- which led you to believe FDR should have been using his non-existant Hydrogen bombs to bomb Moscow?

You are Monday Morning quarter backing 70 years after the fact- and from ignorance.

Once again- Hitler declared war on the United States- and ordered his u-boats to attack American shipping. We supported our British allies.

And yes- we supported the Soviets- because they were facing the bulk of the Nazi Army.

IF we did nothing one of the two parties would have ended up victorious- and if it had been the Soviets- they would have stretched from France to Manchuria.

 

[Syriusly]

Yes, I think we've pretty much established that Roosevelt was a gutless wonder.

All we have established is your complete ignorance of history.

Only is your sorry adolescent wet dreams.

Okay lets do a little test:
What was the date that FDR died?
What was the date of the first atomic bomb explosion?
How many hydrogen bombs did FDR have to drop on Moscow- as you suggested?

 

[Syriusly]

70 years since FDR's death.

70 years of conservative attacks, lies, and efforts to impeach FDR's legacy.

70 years of rightwing failure, this thread another example of that failure.

FDR was a great POTUS, in line with Washington, Lincoln, his Cousin TR and Jefferson.

Ranking Every U.S. President from Worst to First

See the top 15, Conservatives read and weep.

What a joke.

Johnston was last.

He stood up against the way the 14th was shoved down the south's throat....and that puts him last ?

Morons.

FDR's new deal was credited with ending the Great Depression......???

By who ?

So you are upset about the 14th Amendment too.....not a surprise....

 

[Sun Devil 92]

You are right.....Roosevelt didn't bargain or try to force him out.

No threats...no nothing.

Rolled over and caved.

Eastern Europe really flourished under Stalin.

Eastern Europe got screwed by Stalin.

Feel free to tell us what FDR could have actually done better.

The United States was involved in a two front war with Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan- the Soviets had the most powerful army in the world at that time- and was driving the Germans back to Berlin. The United States desperately wanted the Soviets to come into the war against Japan- since at that time we were projecting 1,000,000 American casualties for the invasion of Japan. And remember- the American people thought of the USSR as our ally.

FDR got assurances of freedom for Eastern Europe that Stalin wiped his ass with.

What specific things do you think FDR should have- and could have- done differently?

And how many American lives would it have been acceptable to you to lose doing it.

Tell me just why did we go to war with Germany.

And why those same principles would not apply to the USSR. We got a lot of men killed taking on the Krauts.

And how did we avoid a lot of loss of life in a fight with Japan......?

Don't think Stalin would have negotiated with the thread of an A-bomb over his head.

Of course, FDR would have had to be willing to obliterate Moscow.....no balls.

Once again- you are displaying sheer ignorance.

The United States went to war with Germany- because Germany declared war on the United States- a very stupid move on Germany's part- since if Hitler had not declared war, Roosevelt probably would have been forced to confront only Japan- leaving Hitler to the Soviets- which would have led to one of two conclusions- a German victory- or a Soviet victory that left the USSR with all of Western Europe.

FDR led the United States out of the Great Depression and led the United States to victory in WW2- of course you despise him.

ROTFLMAO

Had Germany and the USSR gone at it without Germany's being at war with us......neither would have been meaningful afterwards.

FDR only helped the USSR...unknowingly.....but stupidly.

And you know this because of your great study of history- which led you to believe FDR should have been using his non-existant Hydrogen bombs to bomb Moscow?

You are Monday Morning quarter backing 70 years after the fact- and from ignorance.

Once again- Hitler declared war on the United States- and ordered his u-boats to attack American shipping. We supported our British allies.

And yes- we supported the Soviets- because they were facing the bulk of the Nazi Army.

IF we did nothing one of the two parties would have ended up victorious- and if it had been the Soviets- they would have stretched from France to Manchuria.

That is beyond stupid.

Had HItler thrown his full force against he Soviets, he would have created a meat grinder that would have made the USSR meaningless.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

70 years since FDR's death.

70 years of conservative attacks, lies, and efforts to impeach FDR's legacy.

70 years of rightwing failure, this thread another example of that failure.

FDR was a great POTUS, in line with Washington, Lincoln, his Cousin TR and Jefferson.

Ranking Every U.S. President from Worst to First

See the top 15, Conservatives read and weep.

What a joke.

Johnston was last.

He stood up against the way the 14th was shoved down the south's throat....and that puts him last ?

Morons.

FDR's new deal was credited with ending the Great Depression......???

By who ?

So you are upset about the 14th Amendment too.....not a surprise....

Never said that....talking process. Or are you really going to claim the 14th was passed without controversy ?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Yes, I think we've pretty much established that Roosevelt was a gutless wonder.

All we have established is your complete ignorance of history.

Only is your sorry adolescent wet dreams.

Okay lets do a little test:
What was the date that FDR died?
What was the date of the first atomic bomb explosion?
How many hydrogen bombs did FDR have to drop on Moscow- as you suggested?

Let's do

Yes, I think we've pretty much established that Roosevelt was a gutless wonder.

All we have established is your complete ignorance of history.

Only is your sorry adolescent wet dreams.

Okay lets do a little test:
What was the date that FDR died?
What was the date of the first atomic bomb explosion?
How many hydrogen bombs did FDR have to drop on Moscow- as you suggested?

Add a few more questions and we'll have a good test.

When was FDR first made aware of the bomb ?

What time frame was FDR given for it's development ?

How close was FDR to having the bomb when he took off to give away Eastern Europe\ ?

How many people in Eastern Europe died because of Stalin ?

Make a much different test.

Best of luck.

 

[rightwinger]

Actually, when dealing with Political Chic

Pee Wee is more than enough

But not when dealing with Ann Coulter.

You are pathetic.

I actually find Ann Coulter amusing. She has figured out a persona to sell and the rightwing eats it up. But even though I disagree with what she says...she has a biting wit that is entertaining

Political Chic is just tedious. I would love to debate what she actually says but she cuts and pastes so much crap it is hard to find a point in all the mindless drooling

It's so simple to deflate the blimp you've become....
...time for more B-12 shots?

1. "I actually find Ann Coulter amusing."
You've never read any of the scholarly and well documented best sellers Queen Ann has written.

2. "Political Chic is just tedious. I would love to debate what she actually says but she cuts and pastes."
Cut and paste is the manner of presentation...not the factual material provided.
And...you don't have enough knowledge to debate me.

Not one single thing I've posted....and documented and sourced via 'cut and paste' has been shown to be less than accurate.

And it will continue so.

I'd rather engage in an intellectual discussion with Stephanie

She brings more to the table

You've not engaged in an intellectual discussion since you joined the board from what I've seen.

Save it