Should people without kids pay more in Taxes?

[dblack]

If you want an interesting treatment of how wrong things might go as the government gets into the business of securing procreation, check out The Handmaid's Tale, by Margaret Atwood.

 

[Unkotare]

How do I have it wrong?

You have it wrong in that I do NOT believe "that government is responsible for all the needs of society," nor have I ever said that I so believe.

Hmm.. ok, so what did you mean by citing having children as a 'absolutely essential benefit'?

I meant exactly what I said. No new members of society = no more society. It's not a difficult concept.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If you can't contribute, in one way or another, to maintaining and perpetuating society maybe you should live alone on a deserted island.

I do contribute

You pay taxes like everyone else? Great. And how are you contributing to the perpetuation of society/the country/the Unum?

I have no obligation to perpetuate society or the country.

So where do you get off thinking other people should subsidize the kids you can't afford to have?

 

[Skull Pilot]

And anyone who did not plan properly should be euthanized? Is that the conclusion to draw from you comments thus far?

Stop editing quotes and it's not as easy to take things out of context.

Answer the question, coward.

I didn't imply any such thing and I am not responsible for your ridiculous inferences.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So, if any unforeseen financial disaster befalls you, you'll just jump off a bridge or something?

There's this new fangled thing called insurance that you should look into

The ability to keep up with premiums would be implied in the mention of "disaster." Try to keep up.

look into insurance with premium protection clauses.

Idiot. I guess you're not as smart as you seem to think.

 

[Pop23]

But that would mean being responsible and we can't expect that can we?

Entitlement society means not having to be responsible for anything but voting against those evil rich scumbags that took everything for themselves.

Exactly right.

The whole we are dependent on everyone else in society spiel is nothing but an excuse to avoid responsibility.

Responsibility????

You act as it's not your responsibility to create population.

What a fraud. Rely on us without compensating

 

[Pop23]

I do contribute

You pay taxes like everyone else? Great. And how are you contributing to the perpetuation of society/the country/the Unum?

I have no obligation to perpetuate society or the country.

So where do you get off thinking other people should subsidize the kids you can't afford to have?

Who said we can't afford them???? You dishonest bullshitter. Truth is, you can't afford to age without them! Where the hell do you think doctors, nurses, firefighters and EMT's come from.

Clue: not from the freeloaders!

 

[dblack]

You have it wrong in that I do NOT believe "that government is responsible for all the needs of society," nor have I ever said that I so believe.

Hmm.. ok, so what did you mean by citing having children as a 'absolutely essential benefit'?

I meant exactly what I said. No new members of society = no more society. It's not a difficult concept.

Ok. That's just stating empty fact. Are you intending that to justify your position that government should be paying for the raising of children? Why? I was assuming that it was because it's a necessity for the survival of society, and you believe government should provide for the necessities of society. But when I asked if that was the case, you denied it. What gives?

 

[Erand7899]

Maybe, instead of just complaining about parents.. you should maybe complain about those who have no career gumption and pay nothing in income tax on their earnings of a lower level... maybe you should complain about those who deduct medical expenses or COLLEGE expenses

Flat tax.. no deductions.. no exceptions.. no ceiling.. no floor.. no exemption... for every single dollar earned by every citizen
THERE is your solution

It is not a solution for their is no problem. Only greedy callous conservatives feel the need to get more at the expense of others. Raising the next generation is costly, but to put families into greater fiscal stress because others will be granted a tax benefit is myopic at best. Costs will be passed on to the parents, for the costs to educate and socialize a child does not go down.

It's too bad DD is incapable of critical thinking; fortunately others are able to see the pit falls of concrete thinkers and plan into the future.

There is little doubt that you are a concrete thinker. The critical thinking skills? Not so much.

There is a problem whenever a sizable number of people believe there is a problem. The fact that you are incapable of accepting that there is a problem, means that you are part of the problem.

Like most liberal/socialists, you believe you know all the answers, and therefore, anyone who disagrees with how you want things done, must be a nutjob. However, most of you not only don't have the answers, you don't even know the questions.

Why do single people pay a higher rate of taxation than a head of household, and why do married people pay a lower rate of taxation than either a single person or a head of household? the answer is votes. Married people vote at a higher rate than heads of households, and heads of households vote at a higher rate than single people. Fairness, equity, and society have nothing to do with it.

Politicians are smarter than you liberal/socialists who have all the answers, and they play you like a fiddle. And, most of you are too damn dumb to know you are being played.

Every question about our tax code can be answered by votes and/or campaign cash. All other factors are just window dressing.

 

[Unkotare]

I do contribute

You pay taxes like everyone else? Great. And how are you contributing to the perpetuation of society/the country/the Unum?

I have no obligation to perpetuate society or the country.

= you are NOT, you freeloading bum. Get goin' to your deserted island, you're doing nothing here we don't have better people for (and better people coming).

 

[Unkotare]

So where do you get off thinking other people should subsidize the kids you can't afford to have?

I of course never said anything of the sort. Tell your straw man to stop doing you from behind so hard; you're losing your concentration.

 

[Unkotare]

Stop editing quotes and it's not as easy to take things out of context.

Answer the question, coward.

I didn't imply any such thing and I am not responsible for your ridiculous inferences.

Didn't you say that if you couldn't pay for servants ( ) to take care of you, you'd off yourself?

 

[Unkotare]

There's this new fangled thing called insurance that you should look into

The ability to keep up with premiums would be implied in the mention of "disaster." Try to keep up.

look into insurance with premium protection clauses.

Idiot. I guess you're not as smart as you seem to think.

Your disingenuous avoidance tells me you know you are full of shit but lack the character to admit it.

 

[Pop23]

Hmm.. ok, so what did you mean by citing having children as a 'absolutely essential benefit'?

I meant exactly what I said. No new members of society = no more society. It's not a difficult concept.

Ok. That's just stating empty fact. Are you intending that to justify your position that government should be paying for the raising of children? Why? I was assuming that it was because it's a necessity for the survival of society, and you believe government should provide for the necessities of society. But when I asked if that was the case, you denied it. What gives?

Let's make this easy and talk slowly while we do it

Without procreating parents there is no species

Without a species there is no government

Children become adults that you rely on. Those who do not participate in creating replacements freeload off of those that do.

 

[Unkotare]

Hmm.. ok, so what did you mean by citing having children as a 'absolutely essential benefit'?

I meant exactly what I said. No new members of society = no more society. It's not a difficult concept.

Ok. That's just stating empty fact.

It's not an "empty fact," it's the operative fact. Beyond that, you just let yourself get carried away by your imagination.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Because we are paying taxes on our NET, not our GROSS and people with more children have less of a profit left over to tax than people with no children.....

they aren't paying less than you on their and your NET income...they are paying the exact same as you on their NET income as you would pay if you had the same NET income.....

This is why it is downright silly for anyone to compare what the poorest or lower 50% pay in federal income taxes compared to those in the top 10% of the earners because NO ONE, not even the top 10% is being taxed on their GROSS.....we are taxed on our NET income which is considered our PROFIT...just like a business's profit, just like YOUR business's profit, is what is taxed, NOT your total revenues or GROSS.

so what all these charts are showing us is that those in the upper 10% are much more PROFITABLE with their gross incomes than those at the bottom, with their measly incomes...

YOU, the individual, PAY INCOME TAXES on your supposed PROFIT,

NOT on your GROSS, Just like businesses pay taxes on their PROFIT, on their NET income.

the top 10% paying more and more of the percentage of the federal income taxes just shows that they are doing really well and accumulating more and more wealth, (yes, profit is wealth), while the bottom 50% are not.

We do not pay taxes on out net.

If we did then we should be able to deduct utility bills etc.

And profit is not wealth. Net worth is wealth.

Using your example if I make a million a year and spend a million a year then my net is 0.

And we should be able to deduct utility bills directly, the congress just hasn't been as generous with us as they have been with business deductions...

The gvt can NOT tax us on our gross incomes, and YOU have not been taxed on your Gross income....ever! we need a lot more deductions to achieve us being taxed only on our gross profit such as businesses, but we are not taxed on our gross income and haven't been.... taxes are on taxable income only, right?

The gvt gives all of us individuals, 'X' minimal amount as a deduction for our basic, minimal, ''expenses'', INCLUDING our yearly utility costs, through the standard deduction of $5800 each.... this modest standard deduction for our minimal basic expenses is not enough to cover minimal expenses...those using the short form are probably being taxed on more than their gross profit too....

Wtf are you talking about? How would you being able to deduct your utilities be the same as business deductions?

Businesses are not legally allowed to deduct personal expenses. Your utilities are a personal expense, not a business expense. If I'm a big business owner and you're my employee, I can't deduct my personal utility expenses and neither can you. Sorry, but that's absolutely fair.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

See, here is where that argument fails. Regardless if a couple can afford a child or not, the childless REQUIRE children to care for them in their old age. The childless require the children to become taxpayers to fund the childless's Social Security

I do not require children to care for me in my old age. I will have enough money to maintain my own home and can hire people if needs be to tend to me. Or I can simply choose to end my life. No children needed.

The opposite is never true. The child bearing couples will not be able to rely on the childless couple to supply population to care for us, or additional taxes to fund our social security.

Social Security? Really your argument is that we need to have kids to shore up the biggest government scam in history? I will not need SS to secure my retirement and if you di it is because you failed to plan.

Hey Mr. Brilliant, those people you hire to care for you when you age?

They were products of child bearing couples.

I also may have less when I retire because I raised 3 children, put them through college (3 grads including an MBA) and helped them get good starts. It does not take Howard Hughes to put a few bucks away when you have no one but yourself to spend on. Patting yourself on the back for the easy road?


Do you even think before hitting the submit button, or is that button like meth to you?

I'm sorry, but is there a single couple out there who had children out of some sense of duty, and not at all because they wanted kids, and not at all by accident because they liked fucking?

Is there one such couple out there, anywhere? I fuckin doubt it.

Even if there was, I wouldn't feel like I owed them -shit-. I don't support the Social Security pyramid scheme. If they didn't throw the shit into the general fund and spend it every year, then make the young pay for the old, it'd be better. IN its current form, though, it's a fucking pyramid scheme. More importantly, it's a pyramid scheme that I didn't have any say in, that I don't support philosophically, and to which I have never contributed for any reason other than the threat of imprisonment for tax evasion.

I don't owe Social Security my seed because I never consented to any such debt.

I don't owe people with children shit for having children because, again, I never consented to any such debt. Also, those people aren't owed shit by anyone. They had children because they wanted to have children or because they fucked up. That's on -them-. Can't pay for kids? Don't have 'em, dumbass.

The fact that the government forces us into financial bullshit doesn't mean that I'm morally compelled to subjugated myself or any portion of my finances to make their poorly-conceived system fly.

If that makes me a misanthrope, fuck it. I'll wear it with pride.

Also, when I hire someone to care for me, I also won't owe -their- parents shit. They chose to have a child and that child decided that he'd trade elderly care for money. I'm down to give him that money, that's the whole idea of hiring someone. Past that, I owe nothing. Everything about everything that they did was voluntary, and therefore all responsibility is on them.

If your argument is that without some sort of financial incentive we might run out of people to man our society, HOLY SHIT WHAT A DUMB FUCKING ARGUMENT! For one, if it wasn't for the fact that we set up a fucking pyramid scheme for our national retirement fund, an ever-expanding base of payers wouldn't be necessary to fund this fucking shipwreck. Again, the stupidity of the central planners does -not- indebt me to the people whose actions facilitate the success of said stupidity, and, moreover, PEOPLE DONT NEED INCENTIVES TO HAVE KIDS!

You know that part at the end of a fuck session where you blow your load? That's the incentive to have children, put there by biology or evolution or the good lord or whoever you care to credit. The satisfaction and pride that you potentially get out of raising your child? That's the incentive. Busting a nut and getting to shape and take pride in a younger version of you are your incentives. IF that's not enough, feel free to stop fucking immediately. I won't hold it against you, nor will I fear for the future of our species. There's plenty of people who wanna bust nuts and raise kids.

 

[Pop23]

I do not require children to care for me in my old age. I will have enough money to maintain my own home and can hire people if needs be to tend to me. Or I can simply choose to end my life. No children needed.



Social Security? Really your argument is that we need to have kids to shore up the biggest government scam in history? I will not need SS to secure my retirement and if you di it is because you failed to plan.

Hey Mr. Brilliant, those people you hire to care for you when you age?

They were products of child bearing couples.

I also may have less when I retire because I raised 3 children, put them through college (3 grads including an MBA) and helped them get good starts. It does not take Howard Hughes to put a few bucks away when you have no one but yourself to spend on. Patting yourself on the back for the easy road?


Do you even think before hitting the submit button, or is that button like meth to you?

I'm sorry, but is there a single couple out there who had children out of some sense of duty, and not at all because they wanted kids, and not at all by accident because they liked fucking?

Is there one such couple out there, anywhere? I fuckin doubt it.

Even if there was, I wouldn't feel like I owed them -shit-. I don't support the Social Security pyramid scheme. If they didn't throw the shit into the general fund and spend it every year, then make the young pay for the old, it'd be better. IN its current form, though, it's a fucking pyramid scheme. More importantly, it's a pyramid scheme that I didn't have any say in, that I don't support philosophically, and to which I have never contributed for any reason other than the threat of imprisonment for tax evasion.

I don't owe Social Security my seed because I never consented to any such debt.

I don't owe people with children shit for having children because, again, I never consented to any such debt. Also, those people aren't owed shit by anyone. They had children because they wanted to have children or because they fucked up. That's on -them-. Can't pay for kids? Don't have 'em, dumbass.

The fact that the government forces us into financial bullshit doesn't mean that I'm morally compelled to subjugated myself or any portion of my finances to make their poorly-conceived system fly.

If that makes me a misanthrope, fuck it. I'll wear it with pride.

^^^^fucking funny. Complains about the government system and freeloads on natures own system

You cannot make this stuff up

Regardless of how you freaking feel about DA MAN, it is still my spawn YOU rely on to defend your cheap ass

Glad I could clear that up

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Hey Mr. Brilliant, those people you hire to care for you when you age?

They were products of child bearing couples.

I also may have less when I retire because I raised 3 children, put them through college (3 grads including an MBA) and helped them get good starts. It does not take Howard Hughes to put a few bucks away when you have no one but yourself to spend on. Patting yourself on the back for the easy road?


Do you even think before hitting the submit button, or is that button like meth to you?

I'm sorry, but is there a single couple out there who had children out of some sense of duty, and not at all because they wanted kids, and not at all by accident because they liked fucking?

Is there one such couple out there, anywhere? I fuckin doubt it.

Even if there was, I wouldn't feel like I owed them -shit-. I don't support the Social Security pyramid scheme. If they didn't throw the shit into the general fund and spend it every year, then make the young pay for the old, it'd be better. IN its current form, though, it's a fucking pyramid scheme. More importantly, it's a pyramid scheme that I didn't have any say in, that I don't support philosophically, and to which I have never contributed for any reason other than the threat of imprisonment for tax evasion.

I don't owe Social Security my seed because I never consented to any such debt.

I don't owe people with children shit for having children because, again, I never consented to any such debt. Also, those people aren't owed shit by anyone. They had children because they wanted to have children or because they fucked up. That's on -them-. Can't pay for kids? Don't have 'em, dumbass.

The fact that the government forces us into financial bullshit doesn't mean that I'm morally compelled to subjugated myself or any portion of my finances to make their poorly-conceived system fly.

If that makes me a misanthrope, fuck it. I'll wear it with pride.

^^^^fucking funny. Complains about the government system and freeloads on natures own system

You cannot make this stuff up

Regardless of how you freaking feel about DA MAN, it is still my spawn YOU rely on to defend your cheap ass

Glad I could clear that up

How am I freeloading? I pay my own way, asshole. Thanks for assuming, though.

Your spawn, assuming they're military and "protecting" my ass, get paid for it. They didn't do it because I asked them to. They enlisted for their own personal reasons.

I pay my taxes, thus I've purchased any military and/or police protection. I've also paid all my social security taxes, and even if I wait until I'm old enough to collect the maximum in return -and- decide to collect it, I'll have paid in considerably more than the government'll pay back to me.

Care to try again to convince me that I'm a freeloader? Last I checked, people that purchase what they're given aren't freeloading on shit. You're just mad that I won't capitulate to your demand to freeload just because you busted a nut in some broad.

Holy shit. Some old fuck declaring that I owe him a debt because he fucked someone calling -me- a freeloader! You can't make this shit up!

 

[Pop23]

I'm sorry, but is there a single couple out there who had children out of some sense of duty, and not at all because they wanted kids, and not at all by accident because they liked fucking?

Is there one such couple out there, anywhere? I fuckin doubt it.

Even if there was, I wouldn't feel like I owed them -shit-. I don't support the Social Security pyramid scheme. If they didn't throw the shit into the general fund and spend it every year, then make the young pay for the old, it'd be better. IN its current form, though, it's a fucking pyramid scheme. More importantly, it's a pyramid scheme that I didn't have any say in, that I don't support philosophically, and to which I have never contributed for any reason other than the threat of imprisonment for tax evasion.

I don't owe Social Security my seed because I never consented to any such debt.

I don't owe people with children shit for having children because, again, I never consented to any such debt. Also, those people aren't owed shit by anyone. They had children because they wanted to have children or because they fucked up. That's on -them-. Can't pay for kids? Don't have 'em, dumbass.

The fact that the government forces us into financial bullshit doesn't mean that I'm morally compelled to subjugated myself or any portion of my finances to make their poorly-conceived system fly.

If that makes me a misanthrope, fuck it. I'll wear it with pride.

^^^^fucking funny. Complains about the government system and freeloads on natures own system

You cannot make this stuff up

Regardless of how you freaking feel about DA MAN, it is still my spawn YOU rely on to defend your cheap ass

Glad I could clear that up

How am I freeloading? I pay my own way, asshole. Thanks for assuming, though.

Your spawn, assuming they're military and "protecting" my ass, get paid for it. They didn't do it because I asked them to. They enlisted for their own personal reasons.

I pay my taxes, thus I've purchased any military and/or police protection. I've also paid all my social security taxes, and even if I wait until I'm old enough to collect the maximum in return -and- decide to collect it, I'll have paid in considerably more than the government'll pay back to me.

Care to try again to convince me that I'm a freeloader? Last I checked, people that purchase what they're given aren't freeloading on shit. You're just mad that I won't capitulate to your demand to freeload just because you busted a nut in some broad.

Holy shit. Some old fuck declaring that I owe him a debt because he fucked someone calling -me- a freeloader! You can't make this shit up!

Could you be any dumber

You pay a soldier that is THERE. Jesus H. Christ, what part of, if they are not created, YOU are not protected do you not get????

I would speak slower if I could, but I'm not sure even that would help.

Oh, and yes, one of my sons spent 36 month in those shitholes to defend your ass