Ten Gun Myths and Memes-- Shot Down

[RDD_1210]

I point out two countries that effectively outlaw private ownership of guns and yet have enormous rates of gun violence and I'm the stupid one?
No, junior. You've been pwned.

Hey, according to them, it is OUR BURDEN to prove our arguments, but it is NOT THEIR BURDEN to prove their arguments.

I'm done arguing with these gentlemen. I'm going to keep posting the Department of Justice Statistics every half hour on this thread, that's it.

Definition of One Trick Pony. Good for you.

 

[RDD_1210]

excpet for the fact that that proposal wasn't ever exactly passed.

Swiss overwhelmingly reject plan to tighten gun control in referendum - SWITZERLAND - FRANCE 24

Since your article doesn't even talk about automatic weapons......lol.

Automatic weapons are not allowed to be possessed by civilians in Switzerland. Fact.

It's almost as if you're intentionally trying to make me look good.

so the SG 550 they are issued that fires 700 rounds a minute isn't automatic? damn those swiss have some fast trigger fingers. dude, even i'm not good enought to make you look good. making you look good is an impossible task

Nope, it's not automatic. It doesn't fire at that rate and civilians don't own them.

See I can just reply and make statements without proof just like you. Weeeee!

 

[The Rabbi]

Since your article doesn't even talk about automatic weapons......lol.

Automatic weapons are not allowed to be possessed by civilians in Switzerland. Fact.

It's almost as if you're intentionally trying to make me look good.

so the SG 550 they are issued that fires 700 rounds a minute isn't automatic? damn those swiss have some fast trigger fingers. dude, even i'm not good enought to make you look good. making you look good is an impossible task

Nope, it's not automatic. It doesn't fire at that rate and civilians don't own them.

See I can just reply and make statements without proof just like you. Weeeee!

Except you look like an idiot when someone posts proof. A ctually you look like an idiot regardless.
SIG 550--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_SG_550
Full auto with 700rpm.
Swiss ownership

Each such individual is required to keep his army-issued personal weapon (the 5.56x45mm Sig 550 rifle for enlisted personnel and/or the 9mm SIG-Sauer P220 semi-automatic pistol for officers, military police, medical and postal personnel) at home. Up until October 2007, a specified personal retention quantity of government-issued personal ammunition (50 rounds 5.56 mm / 48 rounds 9mm) was issued as well, which was sealed and inspected regularly to ensure that no unauthorized use had taken place.[4] The ammunition was intended for use while traveling to the army barracks in case of invasion.

In October 2007, the Swiss Federal Council decided that the distribution of ammunition to soldiers shall stop and that all previously issued ammo shall be returned. By March 2011, more than 99% of the ammo has been received. Only special rapid deployment units and the military police still have ammunition stored at home today.[5]

When their period of service has ended, militiamen have the choice of keeping their personal weapon and other selected items of their equipment.

Gun politics in Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pwnd, s0n.

 

[Mustang]

Ten Gun Myths Shot Down in a Hail of • • • bullets ​

• Myth #1: They're coming for your guns.
Fact-check: No one knows the exact number of guns in America, but it's clear there's no practical way to round them all up (never mind that no one in Washington is proposing this). Yet if you fantasize about rifle-toting citizens facing down the government, you'll rest easy knowing that America's roughly 80 million gun owners already have the feds and cops outgunned by a factor of around 79 to 1. (chart)

• Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates...

Myth #3: An armed society is a polite society.
Fact-check: Drivers who carry guns are 44% more likely than unarmed drivers to make obscene gestures at other motorists, and 77% more likely to follow them aggressively.

• Among Texans convicted of serious crimes, those with concealed-handgun licenses were sentenced for threatening someone with a firearm 4.8 times more than those without...​

• Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.
Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0

• Chances that a shooting at an ER involves guns taken from guards: 1 in 5.​

• Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.
Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.

• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home...​

• Myth #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer.
Fact-check: In 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime.

• In one survey, nearly 1% of Americans reported using guns to defend themselves or their property. However, a closer look at their claims found that more than 50% involved using guns in an aggressive manner, such as escalating an argument.
• A Philadelphia study found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. His odds of being killed were 4.2 times greater.​

• Myth #7: Guns make women safer.
Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers...

• Myth #8: "Vicious, violent video games" deserve more blame than guns.
Fact-check: So said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre after Newtown. So what's up with Japan?
(chart/resource in link - wont behave here)

• Myth #9: More and more Americans are becoming gun owners.
Fact-check: More guns are being sold, but they're owned by a shrinking portion of the population...

• Around 80% of gun owners are men. On average they own 7.9 guns each...​

• Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have.
Fact-check: Weak laws and loopholes backed by the gun lobby make it easier to get guns illegally.

• Around 40% of all legal gun sales involve private sellers and don't require background checks. 40% of prison inmates who used guns in their crimes got them this way.
• An investigation found 62% of online gun sellers were willing to sell to buyers who said they couldn't pass a background check...​

Links for substantiation of all points, charts, further point narratives at the article link here.

Here's one of them pertaining to Myth 2, particularly illustrative:

Also worth a look is this chart from one of the resources, listing the world's countries ranked by rate of gun ownership (i.e. how armed we are). Take a look at how far ahead we are.

Topic armed and dangerous, unlocked and loaded. Bring it on.

How can a correlation connection between the number of guns owned (and hence available) and the number of gun deaths be a shocking statistic to anyone?

Doesn't an increase in the number of skate boards correlate with the number of skate board injuries? Or cars with auto fatalities? Or bikes with bike injuries? Of course, actions CAN be taken to reduce the numbers of injuries and deaths related to ALL products. These include safety measures taken voluntarily or mandated by law. Do Americans chafe so much regarding safety laws regarding highway speed limits, or seat belts, or air bags, or drunk driving laws? No!

Then why is there all this resistance to reasonable gun laws like requiring mandatory background checks or limiting the number of rounds in ammo clips? Perhaps this has less to do with gun rights of gun owners than it has to do with the interests of gun manufacturers who are interested in selling as much (and as varied) gun products as they can dream up and churn out to anyone and everyone willing to pony up the money.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Since apparently being unarmed makes you safer, how about we disarm our police! Wouldn't' have to worry about those Chris Dorner types anymore!

ALL ABOARD

 

[RDD_1210]

so the SG 550 they are issued that fires 700 rounds a minute isn't automatic? damn those swiss have some fast trigger fingers. dude, even i'm not good enought to make you look good. making you look good is an impossible task

Nope, it's not automatic. It doesn't fire at that rate and civilians don't own them.

See I can just reply and make statements without proof just like you. Weeeee!

Except you look like an idiot when someone posts proof. A ctually you look like an idiot regardless.
SIG 550--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_SG_550
Full auto with 700rpm.
Swiss ownership

Each such individual is required to keep his army-issued personal weapon (the 5.56x45mm Sig 550 rifle for enlisted personnel and/or the 9mm SIG-Sauer P220 semi-automatic pistol for officers, military police, medical and postal personnel) at home. Up until October 2007, a specified personal retention quantity of government-issued personal ammunition (50 rounds 5.56 mm / 48 rounds 9mm) was issued as well, which was sealed and inspected regularly to ensure that no unauthorized use had taken place.[4] The ammunition was intended for use while traveling to the army barracks in case of invasion.

In October 2007, the Swiss Federal Council decided that the distribution of ammunition to soldiers shall stop and that all previously issued ammo shall be returned. By March 2011, more than 99% of the ammo has been received. Only special rapid deployment units and the military police still have ammunition stored at home today.[5]

When their period of service has ended, militiamen have the choice of keeping their personal weapon and other selected items of their equipment.

Gun politics in Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pwnd, s0n.

So using your source....

"Basically, the sale of automatic firearms, selective fire weapons and certain accessories such as sound suppressors ("silencers") is forbidden (as is the sale of certain disabled automatic firearms which have been identified as easily restored to fully automatic capability). "

Walked right in to that rube.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Pogo]

2A, some of what you've posted here undocumented has already been busted, and to your credit you admitted it. So it stands to reason that ensuing posts are going to be looked at with the proverbial grain of salt..

Actually, the fact that I recanted two pieces of information, proves that I am a man of my word.

On the other hand, we have BUSTED ALL 10 of your myths. You have not recanted them. You are a liar.

Now you're completely out of line. What I posted was a link to an article for discussion, and after a little while I went to bed while others hashed it out. And on this basis you propose to call me a "liar"?

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Now you're completely out of line. What I posted was a link to an article for discussion, and after a little while I went to bed while others hashed it out. And on this basis you propose to call me a "liar"?

You posted this link in order to promote your agenda. Can you show me any Pro gun threads that you've created?

Also, I call you a liar on this basis. You are linking an article that is a lie, for us to debate. Why should we debate a lie? Why should we hash it out? The article is a lie. The US Department of Justice deems that the article you linked IS A LIE.

You are far more likely to survive
a violent assault if you defend yourself with a gun.

Resisting with a gun 6%
Did nothing at all 25%
Resisted with a knife 40%
Non-violent resistance 45%

U.S. Department of Justice, Law Enforcement Assistance Administration, Rape Victimization in 26 American Cities, 1979 60
Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey 61
U.S. Department of Justice 62
U.S. Department of Justice 63
British Home Office – no a pro-gun organization by any mean

From these same studies.

Of the 2,500,000 annual self-defense cases using guns, more than 7.7% are by women
defending themselves against sexual abuse.
Fact:
When a woman was armed with a gun or knife, only 3% of the attempted rapes are
successful, compared to 32% when unarmed.

Fact:
The probability of serious injury from an attack is 2.5 times greater for women offering no
resistance than for women resisting with a gun. Men also benefit from using a gun, but the
benefits are smaller: offering no resistance is 1.4 times more likely to result in serious injury than
resisting with a gun.

Fact:
27% of women keep a gun in the house.

Fact:
37.6 million women either own or have rapid access to guns.

Fact:
In 1966 the city of Orlando responded to a wave of sexual assaults by offering firearms
training classes to women. The number of rapes dropped by nearly 90%.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/55878NCJRS.pdf

How about you create a poll for this thread. Title it: Does Pogo or TheSecondAmendment sound more reasonable. Choice 1) Pogo, Choice 2) TheSecondAmendment

 

[Pogo]

Once again for the slow readers, nowhere in the OP -- or the link in the OP -- or anywhere in this or any other thread I've ever posted in, anywhere, ever in the history of the Universe, has the Second Amendment been even brought up.

You are making a case to INFRINGE UPON THE 2ND AMENDMENT.

Let me quote it to you, and put the important part in BOLD.\

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

That's so cute that you learned to cut and paste. It's even cuter that you think it props up your strawman. Now cut and paste the part where I mentioned the Second Amendment.
Or where the OP did.
Or where the article linked in the OP did.

So let's recap: you've brought in bogus information and admitted to doing so; you posted a lot of unlinked hearsay; you call me a liar as if I wrote the OP article; and now you're getting all kissy-face with your own strawman even after he's been debunked.

To use your term .. you are a liar. Wave bye-bye to your cred. It may be a long time before you see it again.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

I will leave it up to the readers to decide who is right. The public is the best jury.

 

[Unkotare]

2nd Amendement -

The Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey reports that the probability of serious injury from an attack is 2.5 times greater for women offering no resistance than for women resisting with a gun. Men also benefit from using a gun, but the benefits are smaller: offering no
resistance is 1.4 times more likely to result in serious injury than resisting with a gun.

Can we see a link for thi [sic] study?

Thi study? Not tha study?

 

[Mustang]

Since apparently being unarmed makes you safer, how about we disarm our police! Wouldn't' have to worry about those Chris Dorner types anymore!

ALL ABOARD

Conservatives have a penchant for the ridiculous. I don't know if it's because conservatives react mostly emotionally or because solid logic is beyond their grasp. Frankly, I don't care.

But I'll take a walk on the wild side just for grins.

IF being armed makes everyone safer, let's arm EVERYBODY! Certainly, everyone, at one time or another, has worried about his or her safety. So, let's pass a law requiring everyone to own and possess a gun without any restrictions or any requirements on how they handle the gun since freedom from any kind of gov't intrusion into individual choices is one of the highest values of conservatives.

People, naturally, will be allowed to take their guns any damn place they want. Schools, courtrooms, airplanes, bars, sporting events, will all be required to allow people to carry their weapons as long as they have not been convicted of a violent crime in the past.

And let the self-defense begin!!!

 

[Spoonman]

Nope, it's not automatic. It doesn't fire at that rate and civilians don't own them.

See I can just reply and make statements without proof just like you. Weeeee!

Except you look like an idiot when someone posts proof. A ctually you look like an idiot regardless.
SIG 550--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_SG_550
Full auto with 700rpm.
Swiss ownership

Each such individual is required to keep his army-issued personal weapon (the 5.56x45mm Sig 550 rifle for enlisted personnel and/or the 9mm SIG-Sauer P220 semi-automatic pistol for officers, military police, medical and postal personnel) at home. Up until October 2007, a specified personal retention quantity of government-issued personal ammunition (50 rounds 5.56 mm / 48 rounds 9mm) was issued as well, which was sealed and inspected regularly to ensure that no unauthorized use had taken place.[4] The ammunition was intended for use while traveling to the army barracks in case of invasion.

In October 2007, the Swiss Federal Council decided that the distribution of ammunition to soldiers shall stop and that all previously issued ammo shall be returned. By March 2011, more than 99% of the ammo has been received. Only special rapid deployment units and the military police still have ammunition stored at home today.[5]

When their period of service has ended, militiamen have the choice of keeping their personal weapon and other selected items of their equipment.

Gun politics in Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pwnd, s0n.

So using your source....

"Basically, the sale of automatic firearms, selective fire weapons and certain accessories such as sound suppressors ("silencers") is forbidden (as is the sale of certain disabled automatic firearms which have been identified as easily restored to fully automatic capability). "

Walked right in to that rube.

Thanks for proving my point.

so i see you have conceeded that you are allowed to own them. thanks for playing

 

[Spoonman]

Since apparently being unarmed makes you safer, how about we disarm our police! Wouldn't' have to worry about those Chris Dorner types anymore!

ALL ABOARD

Conservatives have a penchant for the ridiculous. I don't know if it's because conservatives react mostly emotionally or because solid logic is beyond their grasp. Frankly, I don't care.

But I'll take a walk on the wild side just for grins.

IF being armed makes everyone safer, let's arm EVERYBODY! Certainly, everyone, at one time or another, has worried about his or her safety. So, let's pass a law requiring everyone to own and possess a gun without any restrictions or any requirements on how they handle the gun since freedom from any kind of gov't intrusion into individual choices is one of the highest values of conservatives.

People, naturally, will be allowed to take their guns any damn place they want. Schools, courtrooms, airplanes, bars, sporting events, will all be required to allow people to carry their weapons as long as they have not been convicted of a violent crime in the past.

And let the self-defense begin!!!

finally, some sensible gun legislation

 

[Spoonman]

Ten Gun Myths Shot Down in a Hail of • • • bullets ​

• Myth #1: They're coming for your guns.
Fact-check: No one knows the exact number of guns in America, but it's clear there's no practical way to round them all up (never mind that no one in Washington is proposing this). Yet if you fantasize about rifle-toting citizens facing down the government, you'll rest easy knowing that America's roughly 80 million gun owners already have the feds and cops outgunned by a factor of around 79 to 1. (chart)

• Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates...

Myth #3: An armed society is a polite society.
Fact-check: Drivers who carry guns are 44% more likely than unarmed drivers to make obscene gestures at other motorists, and 77% more likely to follow them aggressively.

• Among Texans convicted of serious crimes, those with concealed-handgun licenses were sentenced for threatening someone with a firearm 4.8 times more than those without...​

• Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.
Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0

• Chances that a shooting at an ER involves guns taken from guards: 1 in 5.​

• Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.
Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.

• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home...​

• Myth #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer.
Fact-check: In 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime.

• In one survey, nearly 1% of Americans reported using guns to defend themselves or their property. However, a closer look at their claims found that more than 50% involved using guns in an aggressive manner, such as escalating an argument.
• A Philadelphia study found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. His odds of being killed were 4.2 times greater.​

• Myth #7: Guns make women safer.
Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers...

• Myth #8: "Vicious, violent video games" deserve more blame than guns.
Fact-check: So said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre after Newtown. So what's up with Japan?
(chart/resource in link - wont behave here)

• Myth #9: More and more Americans are becoming gun owners.
Fact-check: More guns are being sold, but they're owned by a shrinking portion of the population...

• Around 80% of gun owners are men. On average they own 7.9 guns each...​

• Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have.
Fact-check: Weak laws and loopholes backed by the gun lobby make it easier to get guns illegally.

• Around 40% of all legal gun sales involve private sellers and don't require background checks. 40% of prison inmates who used guns in their crimes got them this way.
• An investigation found 62% of online gun sellers were willing to sell to buyers who said they couldn't pass a background check...​

Links for substantiation of all points, charts, further point narratives at the article link here.

Here's one of them pertaining to Myth 2, particularly illustrative:

Also worth a look is this chart from one of the resources, listing the world's countries ranked by rate of gun ownership (i.e. how armed we are). Take a look at how far ahead we are.

Topic armed and dangerous, unlocked and loaded. Bring it on.

How can a correlation connection between the number of guns owned (and hence available) and the number of gun deaths be a shocking statistic to anyone?

Doesn't an increase in the number of skate boards correlate with the number of skate board injuries? Or cars with auto fatalities? Or bikes with bike injuries? Of course, actions CAN be taken to reduce the numbers of injuries and deaths related to ALL products. These include safety measures taken voluntarily or mandated by law. Do Americans chafe so much regarding safety laws regarding highway speed limits, or seat belts, or air bags, or drunk driving laws? No!

Then why is there all this resistance to reasonable gun laws like requiring mandatory background checks or limiting the number of rounds in ammo clips? Perhaps this has less to do with gun rights of gun owners than it has to do with the interests of gun manufacturers who are interested in selling as much (and as varied) gun products as they can dream up and churn out to anyone and everyone willing to pony up the money.

exactly, number of guns owned against the number of homicides committed with a gun comes out to .000028 homicides per gun. looks like guns are pretty safe

 

[Spoonman]

Since your article doesn't even talk about automatic weapons......lol.

Automatic weapons are not allowed to be possessed by civilians in Switzerland. Fact.

It's almost as if you're intentionally trying to make me look good.

so the SG 550 they are issued that fires 700 rounds a minute isn't automatic? damn those swiss have some fast trigger fingers. dude, even i'm not good enought to make you look good. making you look good is an impossible task

Nope, it's not automatic. It doesn't fire at that rate and civilians don't own them.

See I can just reply and make statements without proof just like you. Weeeee!

ok, so you are totally stupid. but then again we knew that.

 

[NoNukes]

it must be, you do it over and over and over.

Yes, a lot if that goes on around here.

the board is open to liberals too. what can i tell you

Yes, that raises the intelligence level.

 

[Pogo]

Since apparently being unarmed makes you safer, how about we disarm our police! Wouldn't' have to worry about those Chris Dorner types anymore!

ALL ABOARD

Conservatives have a penchant for the ridiculous. I don't know if it's because conservatives react mostly emotionally or because solid logic is beyond their grasp. Frankly, I don't care.

But I'll take a walk on the wild side just for grins.

IF being armed makes everyone safer, let's arm EVERYBODY! Certainly, everyone, at one time or another, has worried about his or her safety. So, let's pass a law requiring everyone to own and possess a gun without any restrictions or any requirements on how they handle the gun since freedom from any kind of gov't intrusion into individual choices is one of the highest values of conservatives.

People, naturally, will be allowed to take their guns any damn place they want. Schools, courtrooms, airplanes, bars, sporting events, will all be required to allow people to carry their weapons as long as they have not been convicted of a violent crime in the past.

And let the self-defense begin!!!

Yup. It would go something like this:

.
.

Nothing like thinking things through. Things like the idea that the answer to violence is ... more violence! ..

 

[Spoonman]

Yes, a lot if that goes on around here.

the board is open to liberals too. what can i tell you

Yes, that raises the intelligence level.

and the spread of misinformation

 

[Spoonman]

welcome to america - liberal style