Ten Gun Myths and Memes-- Shot Down

[Spoonman]

You pointed out the extremes on the negative side.

Today I was standing in front of my house talking to two policemen, marvelling at the fact that they were not carrying firearms. I could not help but think, yes, we are living in the right country.

That's good. And we feel that we are living in the right country. I don't see a problem.

No problem. Would you not like to live in a country where the police do not have to carry firearms?

nope, i prefer that they have them. it's all fine if nothing goes down, wuth if it does your reaction time is magnified. i'd rather be safe than sorry anyday.

 

[GeoLaureate8]

Nothing like thinking things through. Things like the idea that the answer to violence is ... more violence! ..

Strawman. Pro-gun law-abiding citizens use guns to prevent violence. If guns didn't exist, there would be more violence. Guns are the great neutralizer.

Since guns = violence, should police be disarmed?

.

I live in a country where the police do not carry firearms. i was standing in front of my house today talking to two of them, just so happy to think that we live in a country where this can happen. Could you imagine the police in America not carrying firearms? Would you not like to live in a country where the police do not have to carry firearms?

Criminals could come up to me chop my head off with a meat cleaver and the police could beat me over the head with a nightstick. Yes, what a lovely society I could live in.

I remember back 500 years before guns existed, there was no violence, the world was a peaceful utopia because there were no guns.

Oh wait, that's just a Liberal fantasy with no basic understanding of history.


.

 

[Spoonman]

No problem. Would you not like to live in a country where the police do not have to carry firearms?

Nope. I like the fact that the Cops are armed and I like the fact that I am armed at home and on occasion when I'm out and about. My wife keeps a compact 9mm in her purse always which I also like very much. It makes me feel very good about her safety. I'm not sure what country you are from but I am genuinely glad that you feel good about your homeland.

I am an American living abroad for the past 16 years. I have no problem with guns for hunting or target shooting. My father was a cop and I was target shooting when I was 6. Whenever the opportunity presents itself, my kids and I target shoot. I do have a problem with people carrying guns in public. I do not believe that the answer to gun violence is more guns and more violence. There should be a limit to what you can own. If you want the thrill of shooting an assault rifle you should be able to go to a shooting range and rent one. I honestly feel sorry for anyone who feels that they have to carry a firearm to be safe.

well you can't carry a loaded assault weapon down the street so what is it you are really all bent out of shape about then

 

[Spoonman]

Nothing like thinking things through. Things like the idea that the answer to violence is ... more violence! ..

Strawman. Pro-gun law-abiding citizens use guns to prevent violence. If guns didn't exist, there would be more violence. Guns are the great neutralizer.

Since guns = violence, should police be disarmed?

.

Oh good, an easy one.

Yes.

Why?

To steal someone else's excellent analogy: you don't put out a fire by dousing it with gasoline.

Yours,
Captain Obvious

 

[Pogo]

welcome to america - liberal style

Spoon, you're actually suggesting that fact-checking popular myths is "extremism"? Really?

By what definition, might I ask?

 

[Pogo]

Strawman. Pro-gun law-abiding citizens use guns to prevent violence. If guns didn't exist, there would be more violence. Guns are the great neutralizer.

Since guns = violence, should police be disarmed?

.

Oh good, an easy one.

Yes.

Why?

To steal someone else's excellent analogy: you don't put out a fire by dousing it with gasoline.

Yours,
Captain Obvious

Oh goody, a whole strawman poster. Neat.

Again Spoon, nobody made that argument. I said you don't put a fire out with gasoline. Just as you don't address violence with more violence. How's the nuclear arms race working out?

Actually the logo on your image says more than the image does: "Guy Manningham- world's manliest website".
As I keep saying -- emotional insecurities do not trump rational logic. It's just the way it works.

 

[Bigfoot]

(snipped for brevity) not the same thing as "attacked by the right", because I refuse to descend into labelism) just for the crime of opening this dialogue. They didn't even render opinions, just registered objections to the very existence of the dialogue itself. I knew those attacks on the very idea of debate would be coming; obviously if my objective were "ego", this would have been exactly the wrong thing to do. It's not something I like and it's not something easy. I did it because it needs doin'. Period.

So yeah, tell me all about "opening dialogue". What could I possibly know about that.

Sheeesh.

You are imagining some of the angst you are putting yourself thru. I read the entire thread and then formed my opinion based on the credibility of the presented material and also on the attitude that was present in several of your posts. Now you are claiming false martyrdom. There was plenty of rudeness in your first few posts. I believe that you brought some of return attitude that you received upon yourself. You are more then welcome to neg. me in return.

 

[Bigfoot]

No problem. Would you not like to live in a country where the police do not have to carry firearms?

Nope. I like the fact that the Cops are armed and I like the fact that I am armed at home and on occasion when I'm out and about. My wife keeps a compact 9mm in her purse always which I also like very much. It makes me feel very good about her safety. I'm not sure what country you are from but I am genuinely glad that you feel good about your homeland.

I am an American living abroad for the past 16 years. I have no problem with guns for hunting or target shooting. My father was a cop and I was target shooting when I was 6. Whenever the opportunity presents itself, my kids and I target shoot. I do have a problem with people carrying guns in public. I do not believe that the answer to gun violence is more guns and more violence. There should be a limit to what you can own. If you want the thrill of shooting an assault rifle you should be able to go to a shooting range and rent one. I honestly feel sorry for anyone who feels that they have to carry a firearm to be safe.

Assault rifles already require a license to own and with your stated background I'm confused as to why you are not aware of that already. I don't spend much time worrying about what others do, it's not my job. ~shrug~

 

[Pogo]

(snipped for brevity) not the same thing as "attacked by the right", because I refuse to descend into labelism) just for the crime of opening this dialogue. They didn't even render opinions, just registered objections to the very existence of the dialogue itself. I knew those attacks on the very idea of debate would be coming; obviously if my objective were "ego", this would have been exactly the wrong thing to do. It's not something I like and it's not something easy. I did it because it needs doin'. Period.

So yeah, tell me all about "opening dialogue". What could I possibly know about that.

Sheeesh.

You are imagining some of the angst you are putting yourself thru. I read the entire thread and then formed my opinion based on the credibility of the presented material and also on the attitude that was present in several of your posts. Now you are claiming false martyrdom. There was plenty of rudeness in your first few posts. I believe that you brought some of return attitude that you received upon yourself. You are more then welcome to neg. me in return.

BF, you and I have had cordial and fair relations in the past, which is why I neither named you nor negged you back. I understand I can do that but I wanted to hear your basis first. Actually I'm still waiitng on that btw. Now you'll notice a stark contrast between that and my posts to Crybabbi early in the thread-- that rudeness was directed at him, not the topic. He negged the thread as soon as it went up without bothering to even engage, and this is something he has a history of. Crybabbi's actually the only one I negged back. Far as I'm concerned he and you are night and day, because you at least will listen to reason. (Edit: and in light of the last line in the post you just wrote, the irony is heavy)

I don't care about the rep. That's just a number that will take care of itself. I just find it bizarre that anyone could possibly take the mindset that the dialogue itself should not happen; that the topic is verboten. We can and should dispute and pick apart specific points all day and night -- that's what a message board is for. But the idea that some dialogue should not happen in a free society is morally repugnant, and that's the point. That anyone could take that approach is far more concerning than what anybody's rep is.

I've never once negged a post or a thread because I disagreed with it. That's just unethical and dishonest.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Ten Gun Myths Shot Down in a Hail of • • • bullets ​

• Myth #1: They're coming for your guns.
Fact-check: No one knows the exact number of guns in America, but it's clear there's no practical way to round them all up (never mind that no one in Washington is proposing this). Yet if you fantasize about rifle-toting citizens facing down the government, you'll rest easy knowing that America's roughly 80 million gun owners already have the feds and cops outgunned by a factor of around 79 to 1. (chart)

• Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates...

Myth #3: An armed society is a polite society.
Fact-check: Drivers who carry guns are 44% more likely than unarmed drivers to make obscene gestures at other motorists, and 77% more likely to follow them aggressively.

• Among Texans convicted of serious crimes, those with concealed-handgun licenses were sentenced for threatening someone with a firearm 4.8 times more than those without...​

• Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.
Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0

• Chances that a shooting at an ER involves guns taken from guards: 1 in 5.​

• Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.
Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.

• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home...​

• Myth #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer.
Fact-check: In 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime.

• In one survey, nearly 1% of Americans reported using guns to defend themselves or their property. However, a closer look at their claims found that more than 50% involved using guns in an aggressive manner, such as escalating an argument.
• A Philadelphia study found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. His odds of being killed were 4.2 times greater.​

• Myth #7: Guns make women safer.
Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers...

• Myth #8: "Vicious, violent video games" deserve more blame than guns.
Fact-check: So said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre after Newtown. So what's up with Japan?
(chart/resource in link - wont behave here)

• Myth #9: More and more Americans are becoming gun owners.
Fact-check: More guns are being sold, but they're owned by a shrinking portion of the population...

• Around 80% of gun owners are men. On average they own 7.9 guns each...​

• Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have.
Fact-check: Weak laws and loopholes backed by the gun lobby make it easier to get guns illegally.

• Around 40% of all legal gun sales involve private sellers and don't require background checks. 40% of prison inmates who used guns in their crimes got them this way.
• An investigation found 62% of online gun sellers were willing to sell to buyers who said they couldn't pass a background check...​

Links for substantiation of all points, charts, further point narratives at the article link here.

Here's one of them pertaining to Myth 2, particularly illustrative:

Also worth a look is this chart from one of the resources, listing the world's countries ranked by rate of gun ownership (i.e. how armed we are). Take a look at how far ahead we are.

Topic armed and dangerous, unlocked and loaded. Bring it on.

Myth #1: They're coming for your guns

Mandatory gun confiscation in states like New York, California, and two new states in the process Missouri and Minnesota debunks this lie.
New Orleans seals the deal

Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.

I have many guns not one has went off and killed anyone. strike 2

Myth #3: An armed society is a polite society.

We're politie here in the south.

Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys

I didn't think you were that stupid, using this as a point for an argument. There is way too many sources out there too debunk this lie
So I'll use one
http://www.usmessageboard.com/6842702-post1.html

Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.

Why don't you stop by my home without letting me know you're coming and open the door so we can test this theory

Myth #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer.

Does a bad guy with a gun make you feel safe?

Myth #7: Guns make women safer.

Gun laws are the reason women are not safe in gun free zones.

Myth #8: "Vicious, violent video games" deserve more blame than guns.[/QUOTE
How about we blame the person doing the violent crime added with the judges that allow them time off with good behaviour or made their bond so low they could get out of jail.

Myth #9: More and more Americans are becoming gun owners.

There's only one true way too test this theory new carry permits means new gun owners.
, Not more guns being sold.
About 1 in 12 state adults can carry concealed pistol | Crime News - The News Tribune

Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have.

Is this a joke?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Ten Gun Myths Shot Down in a Hail of • • • bullets ​

• Myth #1: They're coming for your guns.
Fact-check: No one knows the exact number of guns in America, but it's clear there's no practical way to round them all up (never mind that no one in Washington is proposing this). Yet if you fantasize about rifle-toting citizens facing down the government, you'll rest easy knowing that America's roughly 80 million gun owners already have the feds and cops outgunned by a factor of around 79 to 1. (chart)

• Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates...

Myth #3: An armed society is a polite society.
Fact-check: Drivers who carry guns are 44% more likely than unarmed drivers to make obscene gestures at other motorists, and 77% more likely to follow them aggressively.

• Among Texans convicted of serious crimes, those with concealed-handgun licenses were sentenced for threatening someone with a firearm 4.8 times more than those without...​

• Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.
Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0

• Chances that a shooting at an ER involves guns taken from guards: 1 in 5.​

• Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.
Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.

• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home...​

• Myth #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer.
Fact-check: In 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime.

• In one survey, nearly 1% of Americans reported using guns to defend themselves or their property. However, a closer look at their claims found that more than 50% involved using guns in an aggressive manner, such as escalating an argument.
• A Philadelphia study found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. His odds of being killed were 4.2 times greater.​

• Myth #7: Guns make women safer.
Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers...

• Myth #8: "Vicious, violent video games" deserve more blame than guns.
Fact-check: So said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre after Newtown. So what's up with Japan?
(chart/resource in link - wont behave here)

• Myth #9: More and more Americans are becoming gun owners.
Fact-check: More guns are being sold, but they're owned by a shrinking portion of the population...

• Around 80% of gun owners are men. On average they own 7.9 guns each...​

• Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have.
Fact-check: Weak laws and loopholes backed by the gun lobby make it easier to get guns illegally.

• Around 40% of all legal gun sales involve private sellers and don't require background checks. 40% of prison inmates who used guns in their crimes got them this way.
• An investigation found 62% of online gun sellers were willing to sell to buyers who said they couldn't pass a background check...​

Links for substantiation of all points, charts, further point narratives at the article link here.

Here's one of them pertaining to Myth 2, particularly illustrative:

Also worth a look is this chart from one of the resources, listing the world's countries ranked by rate of gun ownership (i.e. how armed we are). Take a look at how far ahead we are.

Topic armed and dangerous, unlocked and loaded. Bring it on.

I was going to take this on point by point, but there are so many lies in it it just isn't worth the time. The most interesting display of stupidity is claiming that guns kill people, and then admitting that people kill people.

 

[Ernie S.]

snip
Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have.

Is this a joke?

OP or myth#10?

Many of Pogo's myths are nowhere near destroyed by his comments. I've addressed a couple glaring examples earlier in the thread, so will not go through them point by point other than to mention that his statistics are crap, made up numbers that have been discredited on numerous occasions.

Pogo, it's not the thread that several people have negged. It is the dishonesty of the author.

 

[Pogo]

snip
Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have.

Is this a joke?

OP or myth#10?

Many of Pogo's myths are nowhere near destroyed by his comments. I've addressed a couple glaring examples earlier in the thread, so will not go through them point by point other than to mention that his statistics are crap, made up numbers that have been discredited on numerous occasions.

Pogo, it's not the thread that several people have negged. It is the dishonesty of the author.

I must respectfully disagree, Ernie; the author does not post on this board so I'm the one that gets the neg. It's not even that; it's more that none of those neggers ever bothered to man up and bring any comment into the debate first, as you did (one of them has yet to make any comment at all). They simply negged the fact that the thread exists -- as if any discussion must be put down The discussion itself, not the points therein. That's when it gets alarming. Several posters have mentioned the Second Amendment, which was never part of this thread, and yet this direct violation of the spirit of the First, nobody gets concerned about. That seems to me a double standard.

Thanks for your input. I might disagree with it but at least we agree that we can have the discussion.

(/offtopic)

Bizarre. I just got negged for this ^^post of all things. Again another one who made no comment in the thread AFAIK. So that's at least four people who think this discussion should not take place. Four people who don't believe in the spirit of the First Amendment or the idea of democracy. The amazing thing is that somewhere there's a plane to Pyonyang where they like that sort of thing, and they're not on it.

I hope they find their promised land, and I hope it's a long way the hell from here.

 

[candycorn]

Ten Gun Myths Shot Down in a Hail of • • • bullets ​

• Myth #1: They're coming for your guns.
Fact-check: No one knows the exact number of guns in America, but it's clear there's no practical way to round them all up (never mind that no one in Washington is proposing this). Yet if you fantasize about rifle-toting citizens facing down the government, you'll rest easy knowing that America's roughly 80 million gun owners already have the feds and cops outgunned by a factor of around 79 to 1. (chart)

• Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates...

Myth #3: An armed society is a polite society.
Fact-check: Drivers who carry guns are 44% more likely than unarmed drivers to make obscene gestures at other motorists, and 77% more likely to follow them aggressively.

• Among Texans convicted of serious crimes, those with concealed-handgun licenses were sentenced for threatening someone with a firearm 4.8 times more than those without...​

• Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.
Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0

• Chances that a shooting at an ER involves guns taken from guards: 1 in 5.​

• Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.
Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.

• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home...​

• Myth #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer.
Fact-check: In 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime.

• In one survey, nearly 1% of Americans reported using guns to defend themselves or their property. However, a closer look at their claims found that more than 50% involved using guns in an aggressive manner, such as escalating an argument.
• A Philadelphia study found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. His odds of being killed were 4.2 times greater.​

• Myth #7: Guns make women safer.
Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers...

• Myth #8: "Vicious, violent video games" deserve more blame than guns.
Fact-check: So said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre after Newtown. So what's up with Japan?
(chart/resource in link - wont behave here)

• Myth #9: More and more Americans are becoming gun owners.
Fact-check: More guns are being sold, but they're owned by a shrinking portion of the population...

• Around 80% of gun owners are men. On average they own 7.9 guns each...​

• Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have.
Fact-check: Weak laws and loopholes backed by the gun lobby make it easier to get guns illegally.

• Around 40% of all legal gun sales involve private sellers and don't require background checks. 40% of prison inmates who used guns in their crimes got them this way.
• An investigation found 62% of online gun sellers were willing to sell to buyers who said they couldn't pass a background check...​

Links for substantiation of all points, charts, further point narratives at the article link here.

Here's one of them pertaining to Myth 2, particularly illustrative:

Also worth a look is this chart from one of the resources, listing the world's countries ranked by rate of gun ownership (i.e. how armed we are). Take a look at how far ahead we are.

Topic armed and dangerous, unlocked and loaded. Bring it on.

Of all of them, I find #8 is the "most mythic". We don't have but a few games/books/movies here that they don't have overseas. Yet we have a shocking gun killing about once a month. They don't seem to have as many overseas.

Obviously the culture is NOT to blame, it's our ordinances and laws...unless you just think that Americans are more homicidal than others

Clearly that is not the case.
Memphis TN and Knoxville TN operate under exactly the same laws. According to you they should have exactly the same rate of violent crime involving guns. In fact Memphis has 80% more than Knoxville.
Mexico has very strict gun regulation. Switzerland does not. Illinois has very strict gun regulation. Vermont does not. We could go on and on showing counter examples.

Certainly, there are other factors. Blaming it on violent video games that are available the world over or violent television programs that are on every station across the globe is a desperate grope for an excuse when it's obvious the availability of guns in our culture is the reason we have so many gun deaths.

 

[The Rabbi]

Of all of them, I find #8 is the "most mythic". We don't have but a few games/books/movies here that they don't have overseas. Yet we have a shocking gun killing about once a month. They don't seem to have as many overseas.

Obviously the culture is NOT to blame, it's our ordinances and laws...unless you just think that Americans are more homicidal than others

Clearly that is not the case.
Memphis TN and Knoxville TN operate under exactly the same laws. According to you they should have exactly the same rate of violent crime involving guns. In fact Memphis has 80% more than Knoxville.
Mexico has very strict gun regulation. Switzerland does not. Illinois has very strict gun regulation. Vermont does not. We could go on and on showing counter examples.

Certainly, there are other factors. Blaming it on violent video games that are available the world over or violent television programs that are on every station across the globe is a desperate grope for an excuse when it's obvious the availability of guns in our culture is the reason we have so many gun deaths.

You took the short bus to school, didnt you?
First off, yes there are many factors between different countries. Which is why comparisons to other countries are ludicrous.
Second, it is undeniable that while other countries have violent video games and movies, most of the ones on the market are invented here. I dont know how much of a link there is. But it is silly to say there is none at all.
Third, I have already shown that availability of guns does not equal rate of crime.

 

[Pogo]

Clearly that is not the case.
Memphis TN and Knoxville TN operate under exactly the same laws. According to you they should have exactly the same rate of violent crime involving guns. In fact Memphis has 80% more than Knoxville.
Mexico has very strict gun regulation. Switzerland does not. Illinois has very strict gun regulation. Vermont does not. We could go on and on showing counter examples.

Certainly, there are other factors. Blaming it on violent video games that are available the world over or violent television programs that are on every station across the globe is a desperate grope for an excuse when it's obvious the availability of guns in our culture is the reason we have so many gun deaths.

You took the short bus to school, didnt you?
First off, yes there are many factors between different countries. Which is why comparisons to other countries are ludicrous.
Second, it is undeniable that while other countries have violent video games and movies, most of the ones on the market are invented here. I dont know how much of a link there is. But it is silly to say there is none at all.
Third, I have already shown that availability of guns does not equal rate of crime.

This is gonna feel really weird but I agree with parts of both of these.

"it's obvious the availability of guns in our culture is the reason we have so many gun deaths."
-- valid point but I don't think it's the "only" reason. Availability facilitates that level of violence, but if the bloodthrist isn't also present, we'd have no issue. The example of Switzerland is commonly cited, although for every Switzerland there's a Japan in contradiction. Which brings us to:

"Second, it is undeniable that while other countries have violent video games and movies, most of the ones on the market are invented here. I dont know how much of a link there is. But it is silly to say there is none at all."

Actually this is an astute point. The causality between violent media and violent society doesn't seem to have a demonstrable basis, and yet-- who thinks these things up and why? There's the rub.

The common answer to both points is the gun 'culture' -- this idea that everything that happens to us must be mashed with a metaphorical hammer, destroyed, killed, burned to the ground or have its head blown off. That's how you market a video game or movie, and every time we do that it just reinforces that societal value... just as the creation of that video game came from those same values.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy; we believe that people are this violent monster to be subdued, so to we invent technology that can blow it away. Of course, "those people", being part of the same culture, have bought the same myth, so they're armed too; which means "we" need bigger better arms; which means they catch up, ad infinitum. That is why we keep noting the ridiculousness of the idea that the answer to violence is more violence. It's absurd.

The difference between us and similar countries that are far less violent, I submit, is that we simply value Life less than they do. That's at the base of all this and if we were to make that adjustment, it wouldn't matter how many million guns we have, because the idea of using them against each other would simply be unthinkable.

It ain't how many guns there are or how fast this or that weapon can be loaded or what the Second Amendment says; it's our values. Perhaps it's the wages of the "good/evil" dichotomy? Just a thought.

 

[JoeB131]

Quite frankly I put little stock in statistics when it comes to guns.

I grew up shooting with people who shoot and own guns and no one not one person I have ever met has injured himself or someone else with a gun. No one has brandished a gun at his or her spouse during a argument, no one has committed suicide etc.

Those numbers just don't jive with my life experience.

My next door neighbor shot himself after the police refused to confiscate his gun after a failed earlier attempt.

Umm... yeah, guns in the home are more dangerous to the people in them. Every collected stat has confirmed this.

But the gun makers are making big money, and that's the important thing.

One anecdote does not mean evidence. Fail.

So why aren't you holding skullhead to that same standard.

We had 16,000 gun suicides and 11,000 gun murders last year.

and only 201 cases of homicide in self-defense.

 

[Steve Hanson]

Ten Gun Myths Shot Down in a Hail of • • • bullets ​

• Myth #1: They're coming for your guns.
Fact-check: No one knows the exact number of guns in America, but it's clear there's no practical way to round them all up (never mind that no one in Washington is proposing this). Yet if you fantasize about rifle-toting citizens facing down the government, you'll rest easy knowing that America's roughly 80 million gun owners already have the feds and cops outgunned by a factor of around 79 to 1. (chart)

• Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates...

Myth #3: An armed society is a polite society.
Fact-check: Drivers who carry guns are 44% more likely than unarmed drivers to make obscene gestures at other motorists, and 77% more likely to follow them aggressively.

• Among Texans convicted of serious crimes, those with concealed-handgun licenses were sentenced for threatening someone with a firearm 4.8 times more than those without...​

• Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.
Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0

• Chances that a shooting at an ER involves guns taken from guards: 1 in 5.​

• Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.
Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.

• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home...​

• Myth #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer.
Fact-check: In 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime.

• In one survey, nearly 1% of Americans reported using guns to defend themselves or their property. However, a closer look at their claims found that more than 50% involved using guns in an aggressive manner, such as escalating an argument.
• A Philadelphia study found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. His odds of being killed were 4.2 times greater.​

• Myth #7: Guns make women safer.
Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers...

• Myth #8: "Vicious, violent video games" deserve more blame than guns.
Fact-check: So said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre after Newtown. So what's up with Japan?
(chart/resource in link - wont behave here)

• Myth #9: More and more Americans are becoming gun owners.
Fact-check: More guns are being sold, but they're owned by a shrinking portion of the population...

• Around 80% of gun owners are men. On average they own 7.9 guns each...​

• Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have.
Fact-check: Weak laws and loopholes backed by the gun lobby make it easier to get guns illegally.

• Around 40% of all legal gun sales involve private sellers and don't require background checks. 40% of prison inmates who used guns in their crimes got them this way.
• An investigation found 62% of online gun sellers were willing to sell to buyers who said they couldn't pass a background check...​

Links for substantiation of all points, charts, further point narratives at the article link here.

Here's one of them pertaining to Myth 2, particularly illustrative:

Also worth a look is this chart from one of the resources, listing the world's countries ranked by rate of gun ownership (i.e. how armed we are). Take a look at how far ahead we are.

Topic armed and dangerous, unlocked and loaded. Bring it on.

Your fact checks leave a lot to be desired.

 

[Steve Hanson]

snip
Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have.

Is this a joke?

OP or myth#10?

Many of Pogo's myths are nowhere near destroyed by his comments. I've addressed a couple glaring examples earlier in the thread, so will not go through them point by point other than to mention that his statistics are crap, made up numbers that have been discredited on numerous occasions.

Pogo, it's not the thread that several people have negged. It is the dishonesty of the author.

Yea, there sure is a lot of selcetive fact utilization going on here. Now he wants to debate? Debate what? False representation.

 

[Pogo]

Ten Gun Myths Shot Down in a Hail of • • • bullets ​

• Myth #1: They're coming for your guns.
Fact-check: No one knows the exact number of guns in America, but it's clear there's no practical way to round them all up (never mind that no one in Washington is proposing this). Yet if you fantasize about rifle-toting citizens facing down the government, you'll rest easy knowing that America's roughly 80 million gun owners already have the feds and cops outgunned by a factor of around 79 to 1. (chart)

• Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates...

Myth #3: An armed society is a polite society.
Fact-check: Drivers who carry guns are 44% more likely than unarmed drivers to make obscene gestures at other motorists, and 77% more likely to follow them aggressively.

• Among Texans convicted of serious crimes, those with concealed-handgun licenses were sentenced for threatening someone with a firearm 4.8 times more than those without...​

• Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.
Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0

• Chances that a shooting at an ER involves guns taken from guards: 1 in 5.​

• Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.
Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.

• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home...​

• Myth #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer.
Fact-check: In 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime.

• In one survey, nearly 1% of Americans reported using guns to defend themselves or their property. However, a closer look at their claims found that more than 50% involved using guns in an aggressive manner, such as escalating an argument.
• A Philadelphia study found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. His odds of being killed were 4.2 times greater.​

• Myth #7: Guns make women safer.
Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers...

• Myth #8: "Vicious, violent video games" deserve more blame than guns.
Fact-check: So said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre after Newtown. So what's up with Japan?
(chart/resource in link - wont behave here)

• Myth #9: More and more Americans are becoming gun owners.
Fact-check: More guns are being sold, but they're owned by a shrinking portion of the population...

• Around 80% of gun owners are men. On average they own 7.9 guns each...​

• Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have.
Fact-check: Weak laws and loopholes backed by the gun lobby make it easier to get guns illegally.

• Around 40% of all legal gun sales involve private sellers and don't require background checks. 40% of prison inmates who used guns in their crimes got them this way.
• An investigation found 62% of online gun sellers were willing to sell to buyers who said they couldn't pass a background check...​

Links for substantiation of all points, charts, further point narratives at the article link here.

Here's one of them pertaining to Myth 2, particularly illustrative:

Also worth a look is this chart from one of the resources, listing the world's countries ranked by rate of gun ownership (i.e. how armed we are). Take a look at how far ahead we are.

Topic armed and dangerous, unlocked and loaded. Bring it on.

Your fact checks leave a lot to be desired.

You understand, the fact checks are done by the author (Dave Gilson) not by me. I didn't write any of that; it's copied verbatim from the article. And you also understand that within the article, each point is documented with links?

Now if you have specifics, let's have 'em, but I"m afraid simple gainsaying doesn't make a point.