The 50 most developed countries in the world and Universal Healthcare.

[Cecilie1200]

We pay taxes and health insurance, and it depends where you live for how much tax you pay, just like here. But in Canada, everyone is covered, and they don’t care for people for profit.

I would much rather have somebody trying to make a profit on good service provide my health care rather than some stupid incompetent bureaucrat, whose boss is a corrupt politician, elected by special interest group.

A few years ago I had cancer that needed treatment. In my area I had three different facilities competing for my business. I got excellent treatment. Much better than if the filthy ass non caring government was running the facilities.

The government in Canada doesn’t run hospitals, they simply pay the tab.

He who has the gold makes the rules.

If the government is paying the tab, the government is running things.

In the case of the government it is the government screwing up things.

The bureaucracy of some stupid national health care would be absolutely enormous with tremendous corruption and cost.

It is not simply the program where everything continues as it is now expect you pay more taxes and get "free" care.

It would be a gigantic clusterfuck and none of the government workers providing the care or contracting the care would give a shit if you get treated or not. We see that in VA facilities where the administration personnel is more concerned with fudging data to get a bonus than they are concerned about you getting treated.

Yet, in most European countries this is not the case. They provide care for everyone, at lower cost, and with better quality given they live on average longer than Americans. Again, look at what the other countries do. The Developed countries. Look at how all these developed countries BEAT America when it comes to providing healthcare to their citizens at a lower cost and with much better outcomes.

"Life expectancy!" = automatic fail.

 

[Harry Dresden]

The Americans who tend to be obese and malnourished live either in poverty or the lower class. Universal Healthcare would go a long way to mending that problem.

How?

Access to healthcare means counseling, advice and nutrition programs that can help people in poverty and the lower class address these issues.

means counseling, advice and nutrition programs
that dont mean shit unless you follow their advice....

 

[Cecilie1200]

In countries with Nationalized Healthcare and there are actually very few, most like Germany actually have a dual system. In other words the rich still get something extra on the side or go to the US when they have a major medical need. The OP is further ignorant because in the US a medical degree costs on average $400k while in other countries it is basically free or much cheaper. The rate of people who want to be doctors will drop exponentially if they cannot make real money in it. Lastly, only one of those countries gives people citizenship if they are simply born there and that is Canada with only 35mil people.

So if the idiot OP really wants this then he has to
Solve the population, $$ of education and of course the lobbyists for private insurers issue. He addressed none of it. Instead he posted useless and inaccurate links.

Sad

The fact is that the top 50 developed countries typically provide all their citizens healthcare, do it at rate that is 2/3s the cost of the United States, and they live longer. The topic is Universal Healthcare where everyone is taken care of regardless of the system used. The overwhelming majority of Europeans, even the rich, stay in Europe for their healthcare.

Population is not the issues since the United States spends more on healthcare PER PERSON than any country in the world. These European countries are only spending an average of 10% of their GDP on healthcare and providing for all their citizens with BETTER results.

The average European country spends less on healthcare per person, covers everyone, and achieves better results on average than seen in the United States.

How many illegals do they have? How many have to spend $400k to garner a medical degree? How come 80% of new drug research and innovation comes from the US? How come we have the highest 5-year cancer survivor rates in the world? How many of those countries spend on their military like we do so that we can protect the smaller ones? How many of those countries allow people simply born there to be automatic citizens? What is the tax rate in those countries —- your % of GDP pt? Your argument is weak and you are either trolling or ignorant.

The so called illegals in the United States benefit the country more than they take from it. Illegals in the United States commit less crime on average than American citizens and tend to work harder and are more productive. They are also willing to work in jobs many American citizens are not willing to do. The country needs far more people to come up from latin America and work here if it wants to achieve and maintain real GDP growth of 3% a year. There are 7.3 million unfilled jobs in the United States currently. There are labor shortages everywhere. Attacking illegal's and deporting them will only HURT economic growth which will hurt the entire country especially the budget issues the country is struggling with.

The cost of becoming a healthcare worker should also be reformed and brought in line with where it is in Europe. Again, the whole healthcare for profit whether it be the education for such work or the work itself, needs to stop. Its bankrupting the country and providing so little benefit while doing so.

I doubt 80% of drug research and innovation comes from the United States. Even if it did, there is way to much waste and profit when it comes to drugs. There is also the damage that the drug industry does to the population as well. The focus must be on the health of the population, not profits for the industry. Those profits have not led to higher life expectancy rates for Americans. Again, America is #34th in the world in life expectancy. All these wonderful drugs have not done jack shit when it comes to the bottom line of health for the country as a whole.

Right now in Europe today, there are far more active ground combat brigades stationed there that not U.S. forces by European forces. Europe has far more combat aircraft, main battle tanks, artillery, and other weapons stationed on the ground across Europe than the United States does. So in terms of who the Russians will be facing immediately after an invasion, most of them will be European weapons and forces. The United States currently only has 3 ground combat brigades stationed in Europe. 1 in Germany, 1 in Poland, and 1 in Italy. Germany's total number of ground combat brigades, 6, is more than double the total number of U.S. ground combat brigades stationed in Europe. That's just Germany. There are 28 other European countries we have yet to look at.

Its true that European countries have higher tax rates as a percentage of GDP than the United States does. They tax their rich and upper middleclass far more than we do. Its good policy. They have far less poverty and healthcare for all. The United States, which has one of the lowest tax rates in the world, can't provide healthcare for all its citizens and has far higher percentages of its citizens living in poverty. You could fix these problems in the United States by raising taxes on the rich and upper middle class. The result being a huge reduction in poverty and healthcare for everyone.

1. We are not discussing crime. We are discussing resources for healthcare.
2. At least 80% does. Learn the facts.
3. We are 34th in life expetancy because we are the fattest country. We have an abundance of bad food. We are trying to be better about it but heart attacks are a killer...and eating McDonalds and Wendy's is not good for you.
4. We are still the BEST at curing cancer, managing diabetes, fixing broken arms and such. THE BEST.
5. I don't get your post in bold? What does that mean? US spends by far more than any single European country.
6. Who is "THEY" you cannot lump Europe into one country. See Brexit. So you want to tax the rich more? Why? Because they are rich? This is the reason many wealthy Europeans establish residences in the US or Monaco to escape the HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE tax burdens in their countries.

So for your plan to work do you agree that you need to:

#1) Raise taxes
#2) Install a free education system otherwise why would a sane person pay $400k to become a doctor only to be paid a lot less due to Nationlized Healthcare?

If you can solve #1 and #2 we can discuss your universal healthcare plan. But you're looking to run before you learn to crawl and walk.

1. Healthcare has a huge impact on life expectancy
2. The benefit of many of these drugs is questionable. It certainly has not led to better life expectancy In the United States. In many cases, drugs are the problem rather than the solution. There is no evidence that in order to have drugs that actually help people that you need an industry that makes absurd profits on those drugs. Historically, the most valuable drugs in history in terms of their benefit to man kind NEVER came out of a system with such massive profits. These drug companies are helping to bankrupt the United States with their prices and are only adding very marginal benefits, certainly not worth the cost to the country as whole.

3. We are 34th in life expectancy because of a wasteful and low quality healthcare we have relative to what we spend for it. Other factors are the poverty and lower class that can't get care, afford it when they do get it, nor do they have access to low cost quality food in the places where they live.

4. If the United States was the best, it would not be 34th in life expectancy. It should be the best given what it spends on healthcare, but its not even close.

5. It shows you that the lump sum numbers of spending don't actually equal what reality is on the ground. If the Russians invade Europe tomorrow, the vast majority of the ground troops they will be facing will NOT be American. That undercuts that idea that the United States is doing all the work currently to defend Europe. The United States does not pay for other countries ground troops, we only pay for our own. The number of U.S. ground combat troops on the ground in Europe today is fraction of the total NATO number.

6. Most Europeans remain in Europe and receive healthcare in Europe.

Yes, of course the United States needs to raise taxes. IKE had a top federal tax rate of 80% while he was President.

The United States government can subsidize the cost of medical school in order to make it affordable for citizens. We can also reduce the cost of medical school to comparable levels in Europe.

I just heard, "1. Accept this as a fact, even though it's been debunked repeatedly, just because I want to believe it. 2. Accept THIS as a fact, based on my previous pretend-fact, because I want to believe it. 3. Continue to accept my debunked non-fact as a fact, because my argument depends on you believing it the way I desperately want to. 4. And by the way, accept this non-fact that's been disproved, because I have no argument without it, and I SO WANT to believe I'm right. 5. My way of getting stats is right, until it's not to suit my purposes, until it is again. 6. Assume that my position is correct as an argument for my position being correct."

Or, to put it more simply, I just heard you say, "I'm an ignorant assbag who has nothing except a desperate need to believe I'm a wonderful person."

 

[Cecilie1200]

Education through discussion with doctors and other healthcare workers along with the provision of alternatives for healthy food through hospitals and other healthcare facilities. Most of the poor health in this country happens among the poor and lower class who have poor access to both low cost quality food and healthcare in the low-income areas in which they live.

What text are you quoting? I mean I know for all the crap you parrot from google you are getting a bunch of complaints of folks having to wait on very simple, but extremely important procedures. MRI’s for excample. A very simple but very expensive procedure. As it is now, I can be sent for an MRI here on demand. If I go to an ER like illegal aloe and do I can for whatever reason have one done on demand. In your communist health care wet dream I could wait up to a month for a very simple non invasive proceadure that is pivotal in saving lives. And your whole agreement about “low incom” people is all flat out lies, even worse, you know it’s a lie yet here you are spreading it with glee. Poor in this country have and have always had free medical care. You can’t make the case that communist health care if you have to lie.

The poor and lower class often have to choose between medication or food in the United States. They often going into enormous debt due to the cost of healthcare in the United States. Those burdens are not suffered by Europeans. Europeans live longer, pay less for healthcare, and everyone receives healthcare. There are no communist countries in Europe. NONE. Communism as a system in Europe has been dead since December 25, 1991. Europeans simply have a better approach to healthcare. This is proven by the fact that they live longer than Americans, pay less per person for healthcare, everyone is provided healthcare. When it comes to healthcare, Europeans win with overall quality as measured by life expectancy, coverage, and cost.

The poor are also eating worse and are unhealthier. You are trying to be reactive vs. proactive. I am all for providing better nutritional and exercise options to the less wealthy. Stop saying EUROPEANS. Which countries in partcular would you like to compare to the US?

Average life expectancy in the US is 78.69 years and in Germany it is 80.64 years and in France it is 82.67 years. It is not like people are not making it past 60. And again we are by far the fattest country. Be proactive not reactive!!!

When dealing with average life expectancy, a gap of a year, or two years is actually a lot. Its not acceptable for the United States to be 34th in the world when it comes to life expectancy despite spending more on healthcare than anyone. You can lump Europe together because generally or on average, they have better life expectancy, lower cost medical care and everyone is provided for. The rare exceptions would be in the Balkans where countries like Serbia and Bulgaria don't have Universal Healthcare.

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that the US is the fattest country? Doesn't fit your narrative?

The U.S. is the most obese nation in the world, just ahead of Mexico
The US is still the fattest country in the world research confirms | Daily Mail Online

This is why we don't live as long. And 1 year is not a huge deal when you're fatter. Stop it!

He's not ignoring it. He's ASSuming it's because poor people are a bunch of ignorant, helpless sheep who can't possibly figure out that McDonald's isn't health food on their own, and who would RACE to the doctor to get led like children through how to feed themselves if only we would just pay for it.

What he's ignoring is that poor people aren't as stupid and childish as he thinks, they don't WANT to eat healthier, they could see a doctor about their diet right now if they wanted to, and even if you gave them each a free pass to a nutritionist, they wouldn't use it and they wouldn't follow the advice if they did.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Universal Healthcare in the United States would help address that problem.

How? My insurance doesn't tell me not eat bad foods? Please explain this. I live in Boston, the best place for healthcare in the WORLD.

Being able to talk to doctors and healthcare providers and being given access to low cost quality food. That's how. Many people in low income areas don't have very good access to healthcare professionals or low cost high quality food options.

You cannot conflate the two. Some of our best hospitals are in questionable areas. People have access. In terms of nutrition it is on you. One can easily spend $5 on rice/beans vs. Big Mac and fries. People here choose to eat poorly. You are losing badly. Very badly. You are unprepared.

Its fact that the poor and lower class have lower life expectancies and share a much higher proportion of the nations obesity problem. Universal healthcare could help solve these problems among the poor and lower class and improve overall U.S. life expectancy.

Walk me through on why and how? Doctors do not prescribe diets.

Well, they might, or they might refer you to a dietician. Problem is, you have to WANT to eat healthier and ask them to do so. And for nearly everyone in the US, if they WANTED to eat healthier, they wouldn't need a doctor or a dietician to do it. It's not exactly rocket science, and they all know what's required. People aren't fat because they can't possibly see a doctor about it, whatever Edge wants to believe.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

In countries with Nationalized Healthcare and there are actually very few, most like Germany actually have a dual system. In other words the rich still get something extra on the side or go to the US when they have a major medical need. The OP is further ignorant because in the US a medical degree costs on average $400k while in other countries it is basically free or much cheaper. The rate of people who want to be doctors will drop exponentially if they cannot make real money in it. Lastly, only one of those countries gives people citizenship if they are simply born there and that is Canada with only 35mil people.

So if the idiot OP really wants this then he has to
Solve the population, $$ of education and of course the lobbyists for private insurers issue. He addressed none of it. Instead he posted useless and inaccurate links.

Sad

The fact is that the top 50 developed countries typically provide all their citizens healthcare, do it at rate that is 2/3s the cost of the United States, and they live longer. The topic is Universal Healthcare where everyone is taken care of regardless of the system used. The overwhelming majority of Europeans, even the rich, stay in Europe for their healthcare.

Population is not the issues since the United States spends more on healthcare PER PERSON than any country in the world. These European countries are only spending an average of 10% of their GDP on healthcare and providing for all their citizens with BETTER results.

The average European country spends less on healthcare per person, covers everyone, and achieves better results on average than seen in the United States.

How many illegals do they have? How many have to spend $400k to garner a medical degree? How come 80% of new drug research and innovation comes from the US? How come we have the highest 5-year cancer survivor rates in the world? How many of those countries spend on their military like we do so that we can protect the smaller ones? How many of those countries allow people simply born there to be automatic citizens? What is the tax rate in those countries —- your % of GDP pt? Your argument is weak and you are either trolling or ignorant.

The so called illegals in the United States benefit the country more than they take from it. Illegals in the United States commit less crime on average than American citizens and tend to work harder and are more productive. They are also willing to work in jobs many American citizens are not willing to do. The country needs far more people to come up from latin America and work here if it wants to achieve and maintain real GDP growth of 3% a year. There are 7.3 million unfilled jobs in the United States currently. There are labor shortages everywhere. Attacking illegal's and deporting them will only HURT economic growth which will hurt the entire country especially the budget issues the country is struggling with.

The cost of becoming a healthcare worker should also be reformed and brought in line with where it is in Europe. Again, the whole healthcare for profit whether it be the education for such work or the work itself, needs to stop. Its bankrupting the country and providing so little benefit while doing so.

I doubt 80% of drug research and innovation comes from the United States. Even if it did, there is way to much waste and profit when it comes to drugs. There is also the damage that the drug industry does to the population as well. The focus must be on the health of the population, not profits for the industry. Those profits have not led to higher life expectancy rates for Americans. Again, America is #34th in the world in life expectancy. All these wonderful drugs have not done jack shit when it comes to the bottom line of health for the country as a whole.

Right now in Europe today, there are far more active ground combat brigades stationed there that not U.S. forces by European forces. Europe has far more combat aircraft, main battle tanks, artillery, and other weapons stationed on the ground across Europe than the United States does. So in terms of who the Russians will be facing immediately after an invasion, most of them will be European weapons and forces. The United States currently only has 3 ground combat brigades stationed in Europe. 1 in Germany, 1 in Poland, and 1 in Italy. Germany's total number of ground combat brigades, 6, is more than double the total number of U.S. ground combat brigades stationed in Europe. That's just Germany. There are 28 other European countries we have yet to look at.

Its true that European countries have higher tax rates as a percentage of GDP than the United States does. They tax their rich and upper middleclass far more than we do. Its good policy. They have far less poverty and healthcare for all. The United States, which has one of the lowest tax rates in the world, can't provide healthcare for all its citizens and has far higher percentages of its citizens living in poverty. You could fix these problems in the United States by raising taxes on the rich and upper middle class. The result being a huge reduction in poverty and healthcare for everyone.

Every fucking illegal broke the law, just by coming here, are you saying you break the law all the time?

 

[Cecilie1200]

The Americans who tend to be obese and malnourished live either in poverty or the lower class. Universal Healthcare would go a long way to mending that problem.

How?

Access to healthcare means counseling, advice and nutrition programs that can help people in poverty and the lower class address these issues.

means counseling, advice and nutrition programs
that dont mean shit unless you follow their advice....

Or ask in the first place.

Of course, he seems to labor under the impression that they can't already go to free and sliding-scale health clinics and ask for that. Hell, you can go to the Department of Public Health and get reams of info on healthy nutrition, if you want it.

Maricopa County, AZ

Oh, look. That took me a whole big 5 seconds to find on Google. There is nothing that Edge's precious "universal health" is going to do about obese poor people that isn't already available.

 

[Flash]

No one in the USA is denied medical care, everyone is "covered". It has always been that way, those of us who pay cover those who can't or won't. It would be the same under socialized medicine, except that those who pay would also have to pay for a massive inefficient government bureaucracy.

If that were the case, there would not be Americans that are forced to decide between paying for their drugs or paying for their food. You wouldn't have poor and lower class Americans racking out massive of amounts of debt or being forced from their homes after paying their medical bills. No one deserves to go through that because they get sick. But with the American system, the poor and lower class suffer terribly when they get sick. It either destroys them financially or they are not able to get the medical care they need. THAT IS WRONG AND IMMORAL AND CERTAINLY NOT CHRISTIAN! Its wrong given that a fraction of the wealth of the top 20% in America(who have 80% of the countries wealth) could help prevent these tragedies for the lower class and poor.

You are confused Moon Bat.

It is not my responsibility to pay your medical bills. It is your responsibility. If you can't pay for it then go be poor someplace else.

What is morally wrong is for the filthy government to steal my money to give to welfare queens and Illegals that are too sorry to provide for their own.

Go pay for your own healthcare. Stop being a greedy asshole and expect somebody else to pay for you. That is despicable. You are not entitled to have somebody else pay for your health care just because you are alive.

The government does not steal the money YOU RECEIVED from the market. Taxation is not theft. Its necessary for the government to raise tax revenue in order to pay for multiple things in order for the MARKET and Society to continue to function. IF you think otherwise, move to Somalia. In Somalia, there is no government to take any of your earnings.

It is not smart policy wise, from an economic standpoint, nor is it moral, to have poor and lower class people unable to afford healthcare. The money that the RICH receive from the MARKET should be use to solve many of the problems of the poor and lower class. After all the RICH did not create the market they were born into. They have just been successful in exploiting that market they were born into and receive more money and benefits from that market. But make no mistake, the MARKET is responsible for their earnings. Had these RICH "talented" and "hard working people" been born in Somalia, they would be living and experiencing a totally different life despite their talent and hard work. That shows you that the critical factor in what they EARN is the MARKET they were born into.

the poor in the USA have always gotten free medical care, no US hospital can refuse service to anyone. Those of us who pay have always covered the cost of those who couldn't or wouldn't. Nothing would change under socialized medicine except that those that pay would pay more for less service.

Tell that to poor people that have to choose between their medication or eating food. Tell that to poor people who suffer financial ruin because they cannot pay the extreme cost of their medical bills. If you think being poor in the United States and not insured is a good deal, thing again.

I don't give a shit. Tell the ghetto welfare queens and Illegals to go be poor some place else. It is not my responsibility to their bills.

 

[Flash]

If that were the case, there would not be Americans that are forced to decide between paying for their drugs or paying for their food. You wouldn't have poor and lower class Americans racking out massive of amounts of debt or being forced from their homes after paying their medical bills. No one deserves to go through that because they get sick. But with the American system, the poor and lower class suffer terribly when they get sick. It either destroys them financially or they are not able to get the medical care they need. THAT IS WRONG AND IMMORAL AND CERTAINLY NOT CHRISTIAN! Its wrong given that a fraction of the wealth of the top 20% in America(who have 80% of the countries wealth) could help prevent these tragedies for the lower class and poor.

You are confused Moon Bat.

It is not my responsibility to pay your medical bills. It is your responsibility. If you can't pay for it then go be poor someplace else.

What is morally wrong is for the filthy government to steal my money to give to welfare queens and Illegals that are too sorry to provide for their own.

Go pay for your own healthcare. Stop being a greedy asshole and expect somebody else to pay for you. That is despicable. You are not entitled to have somebody else pay for your health care just because you are alive.

The government does not steal the money YOU RECEIVED from the market. Taxation is not theft. Its necessary for the government to raise tax revenue in order to pay for multiple things in order for the MARKET and Society to continue to function. IF you think otherwise, move to Somalia. In Somalia, there is no government to take any of your earnings.

It is not smart policy wise, from an economic standpoint, nor is it moral, to have poor and lower class people unable to afford healthcare. The money that the RICH receive from the MARKET should be use to solve many of the problems of the poor and lower class. After all the RICH did not create the market they were born into. They have just been successful in exploiting that market they were born into and receive more money and benefits from that market. But make no mistake, the MARKET is responsible for their earnings. Had these RICH "talented" and "hard working people" been born in Somalia, they would be living and experiencing a totally different life despite their talent and hard work. That shows you that the critical factor in what they EARN is the MARKET they were born into.

the poor in the USA have always gotten free medical care, no US hospital can refuse service to anyone. Those of us who pay have always covered the cost of those who couldn't or wouldn't. Nothing would change under socialized medicine except that those that pay would pay more for less service.

Well go back to the simple MRI. My ma in law has dementia. She had been complain about feeling sick and her stomach hurting. It was an MRI that revealed a condition with her pancreas that was killing her. Had she had to wait even a week for this she would have been in bad shape, maybe dead. Hell, who knows anyone who has had a stroke? How would a stroke patient do if they had to wait even two days for a simple MRI? If they survived what would the quality of their lives be, and would it be worth it?

Your anecdotal experiences are irrelevant when it comes to national policy. Were talking about the countries overall experience as measured by life expectancy, coverage and cost. Europeans live longer, pay less, and all are covered. Those are the indisputable facts. The United States is 34th in the world when it comes to life expectancy despite spending more on healthcare per person than any country in the world. For being the top spender in the world on healthcare, the United States has a terrible ranking with its life expectancy.

You dumbass.

The US ranks low because of two factors:

1. We are the most affluent nation and that leads to a higher calorie diet and less physical activity that causes earlier deaths.

2. We have tens of million asshole Illegals in this country that come here with piss poor heath to raid our welfare system that idiots like you provide for them. Take them away and our numbers improve tremendously.

 

[danielpalos]

Irrelevant. What I said is based on accurate economic statistics. There is a labor shortage that will eventually slow and hurt U.S. economic growth. Rising GDP must have a growing labor force to support it. Birthrate decline in the United States and the retirement of the babyboom generation means these extra workers will have to come from immigrants.

WRONG...because automation will fill many of those jobs. You're 20, right?

Yup. Even illegals will be out of work soon.

Well, if that were the case, we'd have rising levels of unemployment and no unfilled jobs. Reality is different. 4% unemployment and dropping, 7.3 million unfilled jobs. Robo-worker is failing miserably when it comes to making a dent in these figures.

Did you not see the robots?

Yep, I saw them. Still not making any dent in U.S. labor shortages though. 7.3 million unfilled jobs, lowest unemployment rate in half a century. Robo-workers have failed to prevent this from happening.

a higher minimum wage will encourage greater market participation.

 

[danielpalos]

In countries with Nationalized Healthcare and there are actually very few, most like Germany actually have a dual system. In other words the rich still get something extra on the side or go to the US when they have a major medical need. The OP is further ignorant because in the US a medical degree costs on average $400k while in other countries it is basically free or much cheaper. The rate of people who want to be doctors will drop exponentially if they cannot make real money in it. Lastly, only one of those countries gives people citizenship if they are simply born there and that is Canada with only 35mil people.

So if the idiot OP really wants this then he has to
Solve the population, $$ of education and of course the lobbyists for private insurers issue. He addressed none of it. Instead he posted useless and inaccurate links.

Sad

The fact is that the top 50 developed countries typically provide all their citizens healthcare, do it at rate that is 2/3s the cost of the United States, and they live longer. The topic is Universal Healthcare where everyone is taken care of regardless of the system used. The overwhelming majority of Europeans, even the rich, stay in Europe for their healthcare.

Population is not the issues since the United States spends more on healthcare PER PERSON than any country in the world. These European countries are only spending an average of 10% of their GDP on healthcare and providing for all their citizens with BETTER results.

The average European country spends less on healthcare per person, covers everyone, and achieves better results on average than seen in the United States.

How many illegals do they have? How many have to spend $400k to garner a medical degree? How come 80% of new drug research and innovation comes from the US? How come we have the highest 5-year cancer survivor rates in the world? How many of those countries spend on their military like we do so that we can protect the smaller ones? How many of those countries allow people simply born there to be automatic citizens? What is the tax rate in those countries —- your % of GDP pt? Your argument is weak and you are either trolling or ignorant.

The so called illegals in the United States benefit the country more than they take from it. Illegals in the United States commit less crime on average than American citizens and tend to work harder and are more productive. They are also willing to work in jobs many American citizens are not willing to do. The country needs far more people to come up from latin America and work here if it wants to achieve and maintain real GDP growth of 3% a year. There are 7.3 million unfilled jobs in the United States currently. There are labor shortages everywhere. Attacking illegal's and deporting them will only HURT economic growth which will hurt the entire country especially the budget issues the country is struggling with.

The cost of becoming a healthcare worker should also be reformed and brought in line with where it is in Europe. Again, the whole healthcare for profit whether it be the education for such work or the work itself, needs to stop. Its bankrupting the country and providing so little benefit while doing so.

I doubt 80% of drug research and innovation comes from the United States. Even if it did, there is way to much waste and profit when it comes to drugs. There is also the damage that the drug industry does to the population as well. The focus must be on the health of the population, not profits for the industry. Those profits have not led to higher life expectancy rates for Americans. Again, America is #34th in the world in life expectancy. All these wonderful drugs have not done jack shit when it comes to the bottom line of health for the country as a whole.

Right now in Europe today, there are far more active ground combat brigades stationed there that not U.S. forces by European forces. Europe has far more combat aircraft, main battle tanks, artillery, and other weapons stationed on the ground across Europe than the United States does. So in terms of who the Russians will be facing immediately after an invasion, most of them will be European weapons and forces. The United States currently only has 3 ground combat brigades stationed in Europe. 1 in Germany, 1 in Poland, and 1 in Italy. Germany's total number of ground combat brigades, 6, is more than double the total number of U.S. ground combat brigades stationed in Europe. That's just Germany. There are 28 other European countries we have yet to look at.

Its true that European countries have higher tax rates as a percentage of GDP than the United States does. They tax their rich and upper middleclass far more than we do. Its good policy. They have far less poverty and healthcare for all. The United States, which has one of the lowest tax rates in the world, can't provide healthcare for all its citizens and has far higher percentages of its citizens living in poverty. You could fix these problems in the United States by raising taxes on the rich and upper middle class. The result being a huge reduction in poverty and healthcare for everyone.

Every fucking illegal broke the law, just by coming here, are you saying you break the law all the time?

there is no immigration clause in our Constitution; why are we losing money and creating a black market?

 

[Flash]

What if I don’t have any money?

Go earn the money to pay for your meal then you won't be hungry.

We don’t need universal healthcare for people like you and me.

If money is no object I’ll go to the most expensive restaurant

You wouldn't want to eat at a government run restaurant especially if they have a near monopoly. You would have the choice between mush and gruel and it would free in the restaurant but your taxes would go up 20%.

It is not my responsibility to pay other people's bills. It is their responsibility.

The United States military certainly eats very well. They are also #1 at what they do. The for Profit US Healthcare industry ranks #34 in the world.

Remind me to get right on caring about a ranking based on how much socialism the system has.

Exactly. One of the major ranking criteria that dumbass organizations like WHO uses is "does the country have socialized medicine"? How stupid is that?

 

[Crixus]

WRONG...because automation will fill many of those jobs. You're 20, right?

Yup. Even illegals will be out of work soon.

Well, if that were the case, we'd have rising levels of unemployment and no unfilled jobs. Reality is different. 4% unemployment and dropping, 7.3 million unfilled jobs. Robo-worker is failing miserably when it comes to making a dent in these figures.

Did you not see the robots?

Yep, I saw them. Still not making any dent in U.S. labor shortages though. 7.3 million unfilled jobs, lowest unemployment rate in half a century. Robo-workers have failed to prevent this from happening.

a higher minimum wage will encourage greater market participation.

No it won’t because there won’t be a minimum wage after robots take over. Not trying to be all Clyde Lewis about it, it robots are coming. Manuel labor won’t be what it was. Instead of one illegal digging a ditch, it will be some Paki IT dude sitting in a van operating a dozen robots digging ditches. That dude won’t do that for $15.00 an hour it will be for $35.00 an hour. So he will be paying all the medical bills. Not the rich guys and political elite who use private healthcare.

 

[Flash]

If that were the case, there would not be Americans that are forced to decide between paying for their drugs or paying for their food. You wouldn't have poor and lower class Americans racking out massive of amounts of debt or being forced from their homes after paying their medical bills. No one deserves to go through that because they get sick. But with the American system, the poor and lower class suffer terribly when they get sick. It either destroys them financially or they are not able to get the medical care they need. THAT IS WRONG AND IMMORAL AND CERTAINLY NOT CHRISTIAN! Its wrong given that a fraction of the wealth of the top 20% in America(who have 80% of the countries wealth) could help prevent these tragedies for the lower class and poor.

You are confused Moon Bat.

It is not my responsibility to pay your medical bills. It is your responsibility. If you can't pay for it then go be poor someplace else.

What is morally wrong is for the filthy government to steal my money to give to welfare queens and Illegals that are too sorry to provide for their own.

Go pay for your own healthcare. Stop being a greedy asshole and expect somebody else to pay for you. That is despicable. You are not entitled to have somebody else pay for your health care just because you are alive.

The government does not steal the money YOU RECEIVED from the market. Taxation is not theft. Its necessary for the government to raise tax revenue in order to pay for multiple things in order for the MARKET and Society to continue to function. IF you think otherwise, move to Somalia. In Somalia, there is no government to take any of your earnings.

It is not smart policy wise, from an economic standpoint, nor is it moral, to have poor and lower class people unable to afford healthcare. The money that the RICH receive from the MARKET should be use to solve many of the problems of the poor and lower class. After all the RICH did not create the market they were born into. They have just been successful in exploiting that market they were born into and receive more money and benefits from that market. But make no mistake, the MARKET is responsible for their earnings. Had these RICH "talented" and "hard working people" been born in Somalia, they would be living and experiencing a totally different life despite their talent and hard work. That shows you that the critical factor in what they EARN is the MARKET they were born into.

the poor in the USA have always gotten free medical care, no US hospital can refuse service to anyone. Those of us who pay have always covered the cost of those who couldn't or wouldn't. Nothing would change under socialized medicine except that those that pay would pay more for less service.

Well go back to the simple MRI. My ma in law has dementia. She had been complain about feeling sick and her stomach hurting. It was an MRI that revealed a condition with her pancreas that was killing her. Had she had to wait even a week for this she would have been in bad shape, maybe dead. Hell, who knows anyone who has had a stroke? How would a stroke patient do if they had to wait even two days for a simple MRI? If they survived what would the quality of their lives be, and would it be worth it?

Your anecdotal experiences are irrelevant when it comes to national policy. Were talking about the countries overall experience as measured by life expectancy, coverage and cost. Europeans live longer, pay less, and all are covered. Those are the indisputable facts. The United States is 34th in the world when it comes to life expectancy despite spending more on healthcare per person than any country in the world. For being the top spender in the world on healthcare, the United States has a terrible ranking with its life expectancy.

If health care in the US sucks so much then why don't you get on your little bicycle and peddle down to Cuba? One of your fellow Moon Bats (Michael Moore) says they have the best health care in the world because of Communism. Go for it Sport.

Put your money where your mouth is and go. Get the hell out of my country and go where you can get all that free shit you desire so much. Venezuela has free health care or so they say. Go there.

 

[danielpalos]

Yup. Even illegals will be out of work soon.

Well, if that were the case, we'd have rising levels of unemployment and no unfilled jobs. Reality is different. 4% unemployment and dropping, 7.3 million unfilled jobs. Robo-worker is failing miserably when it comes to making a dent in these figures.

Did you not see the robots?

Yep, I saw them. Still not making any dent in U.S. labor shortages though. 7.3 million unfilled jobs, lowest unemployment rate in half a century. Robo-workers have failed to prevent this from happening.

a higher minimum wage will encourage greater market participation.

No it won’t because there won’t be a minimum wage after robots take over. Not trying to be all Clyde Lewis about it, it robots are coming. Manuel labor won’t be what it was. Instead of one illegal digging a ditch, it will be some Paki IT dude sitting in a van operating a dozen robots digging ditches. That dude won’t do that for $15.00 an hour it will be for $35.00 an hour. So he will be paying all the medical bills. Not the rich guys and political elite who use private healthcare.

tax robots not humans!

 

[Crixus]

Well, if that were the case, we'd have rising levels of unemployment and no unfilled jobs. Reality is different. 4% unemployment and dropping, 7.3 million unfilled jobs. Robo-worker is failing miserably when it comes to making a dent in these figures.

Did you not see the robots?

Yep, I saw them. Still not making any dent in U.S. labor shortages though. 7.3 million unfilled jobs, lowest unemployment rate in half a century. Robo-workers have failed to prevent this from happening.

a higher minimum wage will encourage greater market participation.

No it won’t because there won’t be a minimum wage after robots take over. Not trying to be all Clyde Lewis about it, it robots are coming. Manuel labor won’t be what it was. Instead of one illegal digging a ditch, it will be some Paki IT dude sitting in a van operating a dozen robots digging ditches. That dude won’t do that for $15.00 an hour it will be for $35.00 an hour. So he will be paying all the medical bills. Not the rich guys and political elite who use private healthcare.

tax robots not humans!

If you want.

 

[danielpalos]

Did you not see the robots?

Yep, I saw them. Still not making any dent in U.S. labor shortages though. 7.3 million unfilled jobs, lowest unemployment rate in half a century. Robo-workers have failed to prevent this from happening.

a higher minimum wage will encourage greater market participation.

No it won’t because there won’t be a minimum wage after robots take over. Not trying to be all Clyde Lewis about it, it robots are coming. Manuel labor won’t be what it was. Instead of one illegal digging a ditch, it will be some Paki IT dude sitting in a van operating a dozen robots digging ditches. That dude won’t do that for $15.00 an hour it will be for $35.00 an hour. So he will be paying all the medical bills. Not the rich guys and political elite who use private healthcare.

tax robots not humans!

If you want.

beats hearing right wingers whine about taxes.

 

[Crixus]

Yep, I saw them. Still not making any dent in U.S. labor shortages though. 7.3 million unfilled jobs, lowest unemployment rate in half a century. Robo-workers have failed to prevent this from happening.

a higher minimum wage will encourage greater market participation.

No it won’t because there won’t be a minimum wage after robots take over. Not trying to be all Clyde Lewis about it, it robots are coming. Manuel labor won’t be what it was. Instead of one illegal digging a ditch, it will be some Paki IT dude sitting in a van operating a dozen robots digging ditches. That dude won’t do that for $15.00 an hour it will be for $35.00 an hour. So he will be paying all the medical bills. Not the rich guys and political elite who use private healthcare.

tax robots not humans!

If you want.

beats hearing right winger whine about taxes.

Which right winger and what tax’s? I have no gripe over tax’s. Tax’s pay my salary. Tax’s keep our rods looking good, or are supposed to. Where I take issue is someone else spending my money on what they ruin I need as far as my health go’s.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Yes, but allot of rich Europe like there. People from Europe move to and live in Argentina. Don’t matter though because they all come here when they can afford it because they can get treated for life threatening Iillness because they have to wait for simple diagnostic procedures. And things like chemo therapy.

Yep, but that's a tiny minority. Its irrelevant to whether which country is doing healthcare better overall for its entire population.

Your issue is that healthcare is not as strong for the "poor". Agreed? You think it is perfectly fine for the middle class and the wealthy. Correct?

No, its not fine for the middle class and wealthy in the United States although those groups fair better in terms of the overall experience than the poor. The United States is being bankrupted by the way it does healthcare, the for profit healthcare industry. Were spending nearly 5 times on healthcare what we spend on national defense. Healthcare is too expensive, wasteful and provides only marginal benefits in the United States.

Not really. Illegal alien are bankrupting healthcare. That and stupid schemes in Obamacare.

Illegal aliens provide far more benefit to the U.S. economy overall than any cost they add to healthcare. We need far more latin Americans to come to this country whether they are illegal or not in order to grow and sustain economic growth in this country. Its a demographic reality many people do not understand, largely for ideological and racial reasons.

Now you're just trolling like Daniel...

 

[iamwhatiseem]

a higher minimum wage will encourage greater market participation.

No it won’t because there won’t be a minimum wage after robots take over. Not trying to be all Clyde Lewis about it, it robots are coming. Manuel labor won’t be what it was. Instead of one illegal digging a ditch, it will be some Paki IT dude sitting in a van operating a dozen robots digging ditches. That dude won’t do that for $15.00 an hour it will be for $35.00 an hour. So he will be paying all the medical bills. Not the rich guys and political elite who use private healthcare.

tax robots not humans!

If you want.

beats hearing right winger whine about taxes.

Which right winger and what tax’s? I have no gripe over tax’s. Tax’s pay my salary. Tax’s keep our rods looking good, or are supposed to. Where I take issue is someone else spending my money on what they ruin I need as far as my health go’s.

Forget daniel, he is a troll...all he will do is keep responding back with vague ramblings