The Bible contradiction thread

[DOTR]

So in conclusion...there is no contradiction in the Bible.

 

[Faun]

So in conclusion...there is no contradiction in the Bible.

Of course there are contradictions.

 

[shimon]

Words can be brocken down into their true meanings in other WORDS they cover up the true picture. CON tra DICTION.... It is a CON using DICTION or words from whatever the source is...In other Words the LIEING pens of the scribes who might have Altered the Original concepts to use for their either power, wealth or whatever floated their boat...Once you understand that then you can see the CON tra DICTIONs for what they really are...

 

[Mindful]

There is also 'lost in translation'.

 

[HaShev]

Was Jesus real?

Or merely an idea?

A POPE recently admitted that Jesus was not historical but a story (words) making an image of an expectation or in his words-
"a Vision of one to come", as if to admit he was created to merge Biblical characters and characterizations that defined a mediator to come through all cultures.
THEY HAVE ACCESS TO LIBRARIES that show the stories are borrowed and given a new name and image in this case that Pope understood the many cultures myths were merged and given an update central image.

Cardinal Newman was good at admitting the pagan influences & explaining this fact.

 

[shimon]

Was Jesus real?

Or merely an idea?

A POPE recently admitted that Jesus was not historical but a story (words) making an image of an expectation or in his words-
"a Vision of one to come", as if to admit he was created to merge Biblical characters and characterizations that defined a mediator to come through all cultures.
THEY HAVE ACCESS TO LIBRARIES that show the stories are borrowed and given a new name and image in this case that Pope understood the many cultures myths were merged and given an update central image.

Cardinal Newman was good at admitting the pagan influences & explaining this fact.

About the LIEbrairies I was always interested in the extensive ones they had in the old world like in Alexandria that “ happened” to burn down that the likes of Apollonius of Tiani was privy to but also Apolonus of Rhodes who had Roman scribes working for him if I remember correctly..There is that Pol or Paul fellow possibly an amalgamation of a number of characters regardless the stories could have been easily reworked by any with a smidgen of these knowledges. I think people forget that the Vatican has very extensive LIEbrairies( a briar is a thorn or bush that people can get entangled in and is hard to remove plus brair rhymes with liar) as well so any pope could call on these works if need be...

 

[bullwinkle]

In another thread a poster wrote, "but there are way too many contradictions to take it (the Bible) literally and even the figurative passages are too wide ranging (I read inconsistent) as to preclude a coherent philosophy."

Needless to say I disagree with what was said above, so I've started this thread to clear up confusion about the Bible and address this widespread, but unfounded claim.

This is not my idea. In the prior thread I had said my piece and had left the thread, but the Holy Spirit has been after me to respond, so I am doing so.

The disclaimer:

I am one guy, who has a very busy full time job and a family. I will try to answer any honest question, but I will focus on large issues that make a border point in the interpretation of many similar verses.

If you have a personal question, which you don't feel comfortable asking on the forum, I have set up a personal e-mail of [email protected] for this purpose. If you think I'm an idiot or don't want to participate in the discussion, feel free to leave the thread. I don't need your angry e-mails on the personal e-mail, but I will pray for you personally before I delete them.

The ground rules:

If you have a scripture that you feel represents a contradiction, post the whole chapter (all the verses in that chapter) so we can see the context of the verse.

Please also do the same with the verse you claim it contradicts.

I'll post the contextual verses in my response.

I'll be cutting and pasting the Bible verses from the Blue Letter Bible and you can do so too for free.

I prefer the King James version, post your verses from that translation.

I will only comment on verses found in the (non Catholic) Bible. I will not comment or address scripture from the Apocrypha, the Gnostic bible, the Talmud or Mishna, the book of Morman and other texts or Gospels some are claiming should be part of or which some claim were part of some version of the Bible, at one time.

I'm not interested in a cut and paste of articles or other posts on this subject. If your not willing to do the work yourself, this thread isn't for you.

The purpose:

The purpose of this thread is not to prove that there aren't any contradictions in the Bible (spoiler alert - there are)

OR

that there aren't figurative passages or concepts that are difficult to understand.

The purpose is to show that the Bible is consistent when read in the proper context and that you don't have to have a PHD in religion to read and understand it.

How about those instances that are left to interpretation? Ex: Parable of the Good Samaritan. Priest and Levite pass by on the other side, but we are left to figure out why, not that it matters because the Bible infers that they are both exhibiting that opposite of love called indifference and become the bad guys. But I'm thinking they both told themselves very valid excuses for not stopping and convinced themselves they were blameless for passing by on the other side. Priests had to be 'clean' to serve the temple, and if the injured man was dead, the priest would have had to go thru a cleansing process. Or maybe the man was pretending injury and would draw the Levite while his buddies jumped out of the bushes and robbed him. I have thought of this often in my own life, how I rationalize doing or not doing, and it resonates again when I hear the reasons we reject desperate immigrants... and like the sentencing of people who leave water in the scalding desert.

Bullwinkle

You got lost in the shuffle.

When reading the Bible we should look at it from God's perspective not our own flawed, human perspective.

If you catch yourself thinking in terms of, "if I was God", then any interpretation which stems from that perspective is probably erroneous.

Thank you for your response, but I thought I was looking at it from God's perspective. My point is that the Bible does not say why the priest and levite passed by on the other side rather than stop to help the injured man. I merely pointed out that they may have rationalized what they considered very good reasons for their inaction, but the excuses are not recorded simply because no excuse is acceptable to God. It is only recorded that they did not stop, and they are condemned for it.

And so, because the Bible is a living guideline, I can relate this non-recorded rationale of the passers-by to today's events. And an example is the caravans fleeing terror. When I see people who are helpless at home to protect themselves and their families painted as they are today in our nation, and listen to the excuses for rejecting their pleas, I think of this parable of our Lord. If I cannot make those parables a living guideline, what good are they?

So in your mind you change the parable to “a government passed by and didn’t seize money from its citizens to help the Samaritan”?

Actually no. In my mind the point is how we as individuals rationalize NOT being good Samaritans. And BTW, since you brought it up...what do you say when a government 'seizes' your money to pay for something you were promised would be paid for by someone else who will not pay, so said government 'seizes' money from its own military, which you pay for, to pay said unkept promise instead? Methinks you think that his just hunky dory. So much for 'seizures'!

 

[DOTR]

In another thread a poster wrote, "but there are way too many contradictions to take it (the Bible) literally and even the figurative passages are too wide ranging (I read inconsistent) as to preclude a coherent philosophy."

Needless to say I disagree with what was said above, so I've started this thread to clear up confusion about the Bible and address this widespread, but unfounded claim.

This is not my idea. In the prior thread I had said my piece and had left the thread, but the Holy Spirit has been after me to respond, so I am doing so.

The disclaimer:

I am one guy, who has a very busy full time job and a family. I will try to answer any honest question, but I will focus on large issues that make a border point in the interpretation of many similar verses.

If you have a personal question, which you don't feel comfortable asking on the forum, I have set up a personal e-mail of [email protected] for this purpose. If you think I'm an idiot or don't want to participate in the discussion, feel free to leave the thread. I don't need your angry e-mails on the personal e-mail, but I will pray for you personally before I delete them.

The ground rules:

If you have a scripture that you feel represents a contradiction, post the whole chapter (all the verses in that chapter) so we can see the context of the verse.

Please also do the same with the verse you claim it contradicts.

I'll post the contextual verses in my response.

I'll be cutting and pasting the Bible verses from the Blue Letter Bible and you can do so too for free.

I prefer the King James version, post your verses from that translation.

I will only comment on verses found in the (non Catholic) Bible. I will not comment or address scripture from the Apocrypha, the Gnostic bible, the Talmud or Mishna, the book of Morman and other texts or Gospels some are claiming should be part of or which some claim were part of some version of the Bible, at one time.

I'm not interested in a cut and paste of articles or other posts on this subject. If your not willing to do the work yourself, this thread isn't for you.

The purpose:

The purpose of this thread is not to prove that there aren't any contradictions in the Bible (spoiler alert - there are)

OR

that there aren't figurative passages or concepts that are difficult to understand.

The purpose is to show that the Bible is consistent when read in the proper context and that you don't have to have a PHD in religion to read and understand it.

How about those instances that are left to interpretation? Ex: Parable of the Good Samaritan. Priest and Levite pass by on the other side, but we are left to figure out why, not that it matters because the Bible infers that they are both exhibiting that opposite of love called indifference and become the bad guys. But I'm thinking they both told themselves very valid excuses for not stopping and convinced themselves they were blameless for passing by on the other side. Priests had to be 'clean' to serve the temple, and if the injured man was dead, the priest would have had to go thru a cleansing process. Or maybe the man was pretending injury and would draw the Levite while his buddies jumped out of the bushes and robbed him. I have thought of this often in my own life, how I rationalize doing or not doing, and it resonates again when I hear the reasons we reject desperate immigrants... and like the sentencing of people who leave water in the scalding desert.

Bullwinkle

You got lost in the shuffle.

When reading the Bible we should look at it from God's perspective not our own flawed, human perspective.

If you catch yourself thinking in terms of, "if I was God", then any interpretation which stems from that perspective is probably erroneous.

Thank you for your response, but I thought I was looking at it from God's perspective. My point is that the Bible does not say why the priest and levite passed by on the other side rather than stop to help the injured man. I merely pointed out that they may have rationalized what they considered very good reasons for their inaction, but the excuses are not recorded simply because no excuse is acceptable to God. It is only recorded that they did not stop, and they are condemned for it.

And so, because the Bible is a living guideline, I can relate this non-recorded rationale of the passers-by to today's events. And an example is the caravans fleeing terror. When I see people who are helpless at home to protect themselves and their families painted as they are today in our nation, and listen to the excuses for rejecting their pleas, I think of this parable of our Lord. If I cannot make those parables a living guideline, what good are they?

So in your mind you change the parable to “a government passed by and didn’t seize money from its citizens to help the Samaritan”?

Actually no. In my mind the point is how we as individuals rationalize NOT being good Samaritans. And BTW, since you brought it up...what do you say when a government 'seizes' your money to pay for something you were promised would be paid for by someone else who will not pay, so said government 'seizes' money from its own military, which you pay for, to pay said unkept promise instead? Methinks you think that his just hunky dory. So much for 'seizures'!

You missed the point but I’ll take the blame. I don’t think I was clear.

You can’t be charitable with another’s earnings. You can build a military with it or roads. It serves its purpose.
But you can never say “I was a good guy Lord...I took that other guys money and was very generous with it “

 

[HaShev]

Was Jesus real?

Or merely an idea?

A POPE recently admitted that Jesus was not historical but a story (words) making an image of an expectation or in his words-
"a Vision of one to come", as if to admit he was created to merge Biblical characters and characterizations that defined a mediator to come through all cultures.
THEY HAVE ACCESS TO LIBRARIES that show the stories are borrowed and given a new name and image in this case that Pope understood the many cultures myths were merged and given an update central image.

Cardinal Newman was good at admitting the pagan influences & explaining this fact.

About the LIEbrairies I was always interested in the extensive ones they had in the old world like in Alexandria that “ happened” to burn down that the likes of Apollonius of Tiani was privy to but also Apolonus of Rhodes who had Roman scribes working for him if I remember correctly..There is that Pol or Paul fellow possibly an amalgamation of a number of characters regardless the stories could have been easily reworked by any with a smidgen of these knowledges. I think people forget that the Vatican has very extensive LIEbrairies( a briar is a thorn or bush that people can get entangled in and is hard to remove plus brair rhymes with liar) as well so any pope could call on these works if need be...

Wonder if they placed my book into their archives that I sent to them in Italian? Or SOMEWHERE in Vatican City was a nice old fashion book burning. *L*

 

[shimon]

Was Jesus real?

Or merely an idea?

A POPE recently admitted that Jesus was not historical but a story (words) making an image of an expectation or in his words-
"a Vision of one to come", as if to admit he was created to merge Biblical characters and characterizations that defined a mediator to come through all cultures.
THEY HAVE ACCESS TO LIBRARIES that show the stories are borrowed and given a new name and image in this case that Pope understood the many cultures myths were merged and given an update central image.

Cardinal Newman was good at admitting the pagan influences & explaining this fact.

About the LIEbrairies I was always interested in the extensive ones they had in the old world like in Alexandria that “ happened” to burn down that the likes of Apollonius of Tiani was privy to but also Apolonus of Rhodes who had Roman scribes working for him if I remember correctly..There is that Pol or Paul fellow possibly an amalgamation of a number of characters regardless the stories could have been easily reworked by any with a smidgen of these knowledges. I think people forget that the Vatican has very extensive LIEbrairies( a briar is a thorn or bush that people can get entangled in and is hard to remove plus brair rhymes with liar) as well so any pope could call on these works if need be...

Wonder if they placed my book into their archives that I sent to them in Italian? Or SOMEWHERE in Vatican City was a nice old fashion book burning. *L*

Book burning comes in many forms... The modern way to do it is to remove the info from the search engines case in point although I have over 1300 messages on this forum only 24 can be found 25 if you count this one in the search engines.. Unless the pope was cold and needed some heat near his fireplace I am afraid all he had to do was remove your book from the search engines but If I was a betting man I am sure your written book is safely there under lock and key...

 

[HaShev]

Was Jesus real?

Or merely an idea?

A POPE recently admitted that Jesus was not historical but a story (words) making an image of an expectation or in his words-
"a Vision of one to come", as if to admit he was created to merge Biblical characters and characterizations that defined a mediator to come through all cultures.
THEY HAVE ACCESS TO LIBRARIES that show the stories are borrowed and given a new name and image in this case that Pope understood the many cultures myths were merged and given an update central image.

Cardinal Newman was good at admitting the pagan influences & explaining this fact.

About the LIEbrairies I was always interested in the extensive ones they had in the old world like in Alexandria that “ happened” to burn down that the likes of Apollonius of Tiani was privy to but also Apolonus of Rhodes who had Roman scribes working for him if I remember correctly..There is that Pol or Paul fellow possibly an amalgamation of a number of characters regardless the stories could have been easily reworked by any with a smidgen of these knowledges. I think people forget that the Vatican has very extensive LIEbrairies( a briar is a thorn or bush that people can get entangled in and is hard to remove plus brair rhymes with liar) as well so any pope could call on these works if need be...

Wonder if they placed my book into their archives that I sent to them in Italian? Or SOMEWHERE in Vatican City was a nice old fashion book burning. *L*

Book burning comes in many forms... The modern way to do it is to remove the info from the search engines case in point although I have over 1300 messages on this forum only 24 can be found 25 if you count this one in the search engines.. Unless the pope was cold and needed some heat near his fireplace I am afraid all he had to do was remove your book from the search engines but If I was a betting man I am sure your written book is safely there under lock and key...

Yeah, Google loves supressing stuff no matter how many exact key words are typed into the search. Doesn't help that many web page providers disappeared over the years losing many a housed site hubs. My labyrinth is becoming a bunch of broken links, because of it.

 

[bullwinkle]

How about those instances that are left to interpretation? Ex: Parable of the Good Samaritan. Priest and Levite pass by on the other side, but we are left to figure out why, not that it matters because the Bible infers that they are both exhibiting that opposite of love called indifference and become the bad guys. But I'm thinking they both told themselves very valid excuses for not stopping and convinced themselves they were blameless for passing by on the other side. Priests had to be 'clean' to serve the temple, and if the injured man was dead, the priest would have had to go thru a cleansing process. Or maybe the man was pretending injury and would draw the Levite while his buddies jumped out of the bushes and robbed him. I have thought of this often in my own life, how I rationalize doing or not doing, and it resonates again when I hear the reasons we reject desperate immigrants... and like the sentencing of people who leave water in the scalding desert.

Bullwinkle

You got lost in the shuffle.

When reading the Bible we should look at it from God's perspective not our own flawed, human perspective.

If you catch yourself thinking in terms of, "if I was God", then any interpretation which stems from that perspective is probably erroneous.

Thank you for your response, but I thought I was looking at it from God's perspective. My point is that the Bible does not say why the priest and levite passed by on the other side rather than stop to help the injured man. I merely pointed out that they may have rationalized what they considered very good reasons for their inaction, but the excuses are not recorded simply because no excuse is acceptable to God. It is only recorded that they did not stop, and they are condemned for it.

And so, because the Bible is a living guideline, I can relate this non-recorded rationale of the passers-by to today's events. And an example is the caravans fleeing terror. When I see people who are helpless at home to protect themselves and their families painted as they are today in our nation, and listen to the excuses for rejecting their pleas, I think of this parable of our Lord. If I cannot make those parables a living guideline, what good are they?

So in your mind you change the parable to “a government passed by and didn’t seize money from its citizens to help the Samaritan”?

Actually no. In my mind the point is how we as individuals rationalize NOT being good Samaritans. And BTW, since you brought it up...what do you say when a government 'seizes' your money to pay for something you were promised would be paid for by someone else who will not pay, so said government 'seizes' money from its own military, which you pay for, to pay said unkept promise instead? Methinks you think that his just hunky dory. So much for 'seizures'!

You missed the point but I’ll take the blame. I don’t think I was clear.

You can’t be charitable with another’s earnings. You can build a military with it or roads. It serves its purpose.
But you can never say “I was a good guy Lord...I took that other guys money and was very generous with it “

dotr, maybe neither of us was clear. My point originally had nothing to do with money, but coming to the aid of the injured vs not coming to the aid of the injured, and I'm sorry I strayed from that and got in a personal hit at the current admin which I do not like. I also regret that every act of public kindness seems to always boil down to money, or love of it to the point of ruining kindness for money's sake. But mostly I am sorry that I got away from my original thought that no matter what rationale we use to not be our brother's keeper, most of the time it wont work with God. Excepting, of course those brothers that aren't worthy of keeping. Jesus didn't give money, and he didn't hangout with the pillars of local society. He gave love, courage, compassion and guidance. Matthew 25 is a big deal at my house.

 

[ding]

Who is they? The people that Jesus made fun of for thinking that a person can become holy as God is holy by eating or abstaining from certain food?

No, the idiots that believe the 613 commandments were ever a good idea, or directly from a deity - specifically the israelites - that, like you, are dopey enough to wash your hands of rape and genocide and call it a metaphor despite the wars, chattel slavery and pillaging in reference actually happening in real life

cant drink foreign wine because it may have been made in sacrifice to "other" gods

woo-woo bullshit, just like a christ cracker, dope.

and your point is...?

That you are just as fuck-tarded as folks who eat crackers that represent a metaphor, and diss them in an obsessive fashion in spite of your own beliefs being woo-woo & unsupported bullshit themselves.

Raise your paw, mr. gullible!

Commandment 19 of the torah is broken by you on a daily basis! along with many of the others.

Mitzvot (Hebrew) - commandments from God. Therefore, said God condones Rape, genocide and slavery. Sounds like a mark bitch to worship. You do you, though.

Why is it that you believe God condones rape, slavery and genocide?

One can't truly apply today's context to those ancient times.

But many do. It’s their loss.

 

[shimon]

Was Jesus real?

Or merely an idea?

A POPE recently admitted that Jesus was not historical but a story (words) making an image of an expectation or in his words-
"a Vision of one to come", as if to admit he was created to merge Biblical characters and characterizations that defined a mediator to come through all cultures.
THEY HAVE ACCESS TO LIBRARIES that show the stories are borrowed and given a new name and image in this case that Pope understood the many cultures myths were merged and given an update central image.

Cardinal Newman was good at admitting the pagan influences & explaining this fact.

About the LIEbrairies I was always interested in the extensive ones they had in the old world like in Alexandria that “ happened” to burn down that the likes of Apollonius of Tiani was privy to but also Apolonus of Rhodes who had Roman scribes working for him if I remember correctly..There is that Pol or Paul fellow possibly an amalgamation of a number of characters regardless the stories could have been easily reworked by any with a smidgen of these knowledges. I think people forget that the Vatican has very extensive LIEbrairies( a briar is a thorn or bush that people can get entangled in and is hard to remove plus brair rhymes with liar) as well so any pope could call on these works if need be...

Wonder if they placed my book into their archives that I sent to them in Italian? Or SOMEWHERE in Vatican City was a nice old fashion book burning. *L*

Book burning comes in many forms... The modern way to do it is to remove the info from the search engines case in point although I have over 1300 messages on this forum only 24 can be found 25 if you count this one in the search engines.. Unless the pope was cold and needed some heat near his fireplace I am afraid all he had to do was remove your book from the search engines but If I was a betting man I am sure your written book is safely there under lock and key...

Yeah, Google loves supressing stuff no matter how many exact key words are typed into the search. Doesn't help that many web page providers disappeared over the years losing many a housed site hubs. My labyrinth is becoming a bunch of broken links, because of it.

So let us take that a step further if no one today except the rare individual bothers to crack open a book or actually searches diligently on his or her own then how can someone see through all the lies and deceits that keep us from the truth...Originally when you first started on the internet everything was wide open and accessible and knowledge was unrestrained not so much now... Yes look at your webpages so much info is missing even after you fixed it years later ... It is interesting how censureship has morphed and changed over the years.. Books no longer need to be burned no one reads them anymore anyways and any pertinent information you can find can be filtered, removed or tarnished by sending your server in a direction that has nothing to do with what you want to learn or know... Interesting I wonder how much more will be repressed in the years to come ...

 

[HaShev]

A POPE recently admitted that Jesus was not historical but a story (words) making an image of an expectation or in his words-
"a Vision of one to come", as if to admit he was created to merge Biblical characters and characterizations that defined a mediator to come through all cultures.
THEY HAVE ACCESS TO LIBRARIES that show the stories are borrowed and given a new name and image in this case that Pope understood the many cultures myths were merged and given an update central image.

Cardinal Newman was good at admitting the pagan influences & explaining this fact.

About the LIEbrairies I was always interested in the extensive ones they had in the old world like in Alexandria that “ happened” to burn down that the likes of Apollonius of Tiani was privy to but also Apolonus of Rhodes who had Roman scribes working for him if I remember correctly..There is that Pol or Paul fellow possibly an amalgamation of a number of characters regardless the stories could have been easily reworked by any with a smidgen of these knowledges. I think people forget that the Vatican has very extensive LIEbrairies( a briar is a thorn or bush that people can get entangled in and is hard to remove plus brair rhymes with liar) as well so any pope could call on these works if need be...

Wonder if they placed my book into their archives that I sent to them in Italian? Or SOMEWHERE in Vatican City was a nice old fashion book burning. *L*

Book burning comes in many forms... The modern way to do it is to remove the info from the search engines case in point although I have over 1300 messages on this forum only 24 can be found 25 if you count this one in the search engines.. Unless the pope was cold and needed some heat near his fireplace I am afraid all he had to do was remove your book from the search engines but If I was a betting man I am sure your written book is safely there under lock and key...

Yeah, Google loves supressing stuff no matter how many exact key words are typed into the search. Doesn't help that many web page providers disappeared over the years losing many a housed site hubs. My labyrinth is becoming a bunch of broken links, because of it.

So let us take that a step further if no one today except the rare individual bothers to crack open a book or actually searches diligently on his or her own then how can someone see through all the lies and deceits that keep us from the truth...Originally when you first started on the internet everything was wide open and accessible and knowledge was unrestrained not so much now... Yes look at your webpages so much info is missing even after you fixed it years later ... It is interesting how censureship has morphed and changed over the years.. Books no longer need to be burned no one reads them anymore anyways and any pertinent information you can find can be filtered, removed or tarnished by sending your server in a direction that has nothing to do with what you want to learn or know... Interesting I wonder how much more will be repressed in the years to come ...

Hence Dan 12:4

 

[shimon]

About the LIEbrairies I was always interested in the extensive ones they had in the old world like in Alexandria that “ happened” to burn down that the likes of Apollonius of Tiani was privy to but also Apolonus of Rhodes who had Roman scribes working for him if I remember correctly..There is that Pol or Paul fellow possibly an amalgamation of a number of characters regardless the stories could have been easily reworked by any with a smidgen of these knowledges. I think people forget that the Vatican has very extensive LIEbrairies( a briar is a thorn or bush that people can get entangled in and is hard to remove plus brair rhymes with liar) as well so any pope could call on these works if need be...

Wonder if they placed my book into their archives that I sent to them in Italian? Or SOMEWHERE in Vatican City was a nice old fashion book burning. *L*

Book burning comes in many forms... The modern way to do it is to remove the info from the search engines case in point although I have over 1300 messages on this forum only 24 can be found 25 if you count this one in the search engines.. Unless the pope was cold and needed some heat near his fireplace I am afraid all he had to do was remove your book from the search engines but If I was a betting man I am sure your written book is safely there under lock and key...

Yeah, Google loves supressing stuff no matter how many exact key words are typed into the search. Doesn't help that many web page providers disappeared over the years losing many a housed site hubs. My labyrinth is becoming a bunch of broken links, because of it.

So let us take that a step further if no one today except the rare individual bothers to crack open a book or actually searches diligently on his or her own then how can someone see through all the lies and deceits that keep us from the truth...Originally when you first started on the internet everything was wide open and accessible and knowledge was unrestrained not so much now... Yes look at your webpages so much info is missing even after you fixed it years later ... It is interesting how censureship has morphed and changed over the years.. Books no longer need to be burned no one reads them anymore anyways and any pertinent information you can find can be filtered, removed or tarnished by sending your server in a direction that has nothing to do with what you want to learn or know... Interesting I wonder how much more will be repressed in the years to come ...

Hence Dan 12:4

Well they have already removed this once on this forum hence my missing 1300 posts in the search engines but here goes computer in Hebrew is Mach Shev Since we always place Gds name in our names as EL MCH becomes Michael and Ha means the So HaSHEV .. Course there was more to this on that other post but people with open minds should get the drift..I also posted info on the first personal computer as well which was mighty interesting...

 

[ding]

Sorry to burst your bubble but there is no grand conspiracy. One would think Jews would understand the saeculum cycle after their people experienced it throughout their people’s long and storied history.

 

[DOTR]

Bullwinkle

You got lost in the shuffle.

When reading the Bible we should look at it from God's perspective not our own flawed, human perspective.

If you catch yourself thinking in terms of, "if I was God", then any interpretation which stems from that perspective is probably erroneous.

Thank you for your response, but I thought I was looking at it from God's perspective. My point is that the Bible does not say why the priest and levite passed by on the other side rather than stop to help the injured man. I merely pointed out that they may have rationalized what they considered very good reasons for their inaction, but the excuses are not recorded simply because no excuse is acceptable to God. It is only recorded that they did not stop, and they are condemned for it.

And so, because the Bible is a living guideline, I can relate this non-recorded rationale of the passers-by to today's events. And an example is the caravans fleeing terror. When I see people who are helpless at home to protect themselves and their families painted as they are today in our nation, and listen to the excuses for rejecting their pleas, I think of this parable of our Lord. If I cannot make those parables a living guideline, what good are they?

So in your mind you change the parable to “a government passed by and didn’t seize money from its citizens to help the Samaritan”?

Actually no. In my mind the point is how we as individuals rationalize NOT being good Samaritans. And BTW, since you brought it up...what do you say when a government 'seizes' your money to pay for something you were promised would be paid for by someone else who will not pay, so said government 'seizes' money from its own military, which you pay for, to pay said unkept promise instead? Methinks you think that his just hunky dory. So much for 'seizures'!

You missed the point but I’ll take the blame. I don’t think I was clear.

You can’t be charitable with another’s earnings. You can build a military with it or roads. It serves its purpose.
But you can never say “I was a good guy Lord...I took that other guys money and was very generous with it “

dotr, maybe neither of us was clear. My point originally had nothing to do with money, but coming to the aid of the injured vs not coming to the aid of the injured, and I'm sorry I strayed from that and got in a personal hit at the current admin which I do not like. I also regret that every act of public kindness seems to always boil down to money, or love of it to the point of ruining kindness for money's sake. But mostly I am sorry that I got away from my original thought that no matter what rationale we use to not be our brother's keeper, most of the time it wont work with God. Excepting, of course those brothers that aren't worthy of keeping. Jesus didn't give money, and he didn't hangout with the pillars of local society. He gave love, courage, compassion and guidance. Matthew 25 is a big deal at my house.

You must have a very pleasant household indeed

 

[MedfordMan]

My apologies if this subject was already discussed (TLDR)...

I always thought a major contradiction was between the two birth narratives. It seems impossible to reconcile them and in general they make no sense. They only make sense if one assumes they were separate inventions added later to show how Jesus fulfilled different Jewish prophesies.

Alang,

Could you flesh that out a little bit. It sounds like an interesting question.

to which verses are you referring?

There are many contradictions I'll just focus on two.

Both authors place the birth in Bethlehem. However, according to Luke, the family originally lived in Nazareth and went to Bethlehem for a census (Luke 2:4-7), whereas according to Matthew the family settled in Nazareth only after their return from Egypt (this is evident from Matthew 2:23).

The whole census thing was a crude attempt to have Jesus of Nazareth be born in Bethlehem to satisfy a prophesy. When you think about it, a census that compels people to travel to their ancestral home is absurd. If I was asked I'd be hard pressed because my family moved around so which is my home and my family knowledge only goes back so far. Also why would the Romans care where you used to live, they'd want to know where you currently live for tax reasons. That is how other Roman census were conducted. The Romans kept excellent records and there is no record of a census around this time.

 

[MedfordMan]

Alang,

I spent a lot of time to researching this (without much luck) and then a simple solution hit me.

In Luke, Joseph and Mary lived in Nazareth, but Jesus was not yet born.

Jesus was born in Bethlehem, but his parents immediately took him to Egypt to avoid Herod's decree.

After the threat of Herod's decree subsided the family moved back to Nazareth (which makes sense), but this was the first instance where Jesus lived in Nazareth (thus fulfilling the prophecy, as it was Jesus being a Nazarene, of which it was prophesied).

I see no contradiction here.

You argue that the census ( I assume you are referring to census of Quirinius) was a "crude attempt" to satisfy the prophecy. Have you considered that Jesus' birth actually occurred as written and did fulfill the prophecy?

The problem is we don't know. The Romans had multiple censuses. According to one source I read there are surviving records of only 40 census taken from 508 BCE and 14CE, with many gaps. There are no records of later censuses even though it is known they occurred. In addition Roman censuses only counted Roman citizens, which suggests that censuses of Jews, while ordered by the Romans, would have been conducted (and documented) by the Jewish tax collectors they employed.

The Romans used the census to set rates of taxation and also determine who was eligible for the army. Given regional differences, the Romans might have wanted to know where you were originally from (and to whom you owed familial loyalty), not just where you were living. It's possible the Jews just followed the Roman's method (as they would have had the same questions regarding familial loyalty).

William Shakespeare was a famous person who lived in England in the late 1500's and early 1600's and there are so few records of his life that some Shakespearean scholars have questioned his existence to argue that the name of is a nom de plume for some other famous, better educated person who actually authored his works. If historical scholars can't agree on the accuracy records related to a famous historical figure in the 1600's, I don't think I'm being ridiculous to question the historical accuracy or records related to Joseph and Mary (who were nobodies) over 2000 years ago.

I'm not saying you don't have reason to be skeptical of Luke's account, but it does not appear that the accuracy or inaccuracy of this scripture can be proven, as it relates to this issue.