The electric car you feel is creating no emissions...

[Dana7360]

Speak for yourself. I live in California, we get almost none of our power from coal.

No, you just import power from out of state, which is generated by burning coal.

California buys electricity from my state.

We don't have any coal fire plants left in operation here. The last one is being shut down now.

We get our electricity from water, wind and sun.

We generate much more than we need and sell it to other states. California being one of them.

So no, they're not buying electricity that's been created from coal.

 

[OnePercenter]

A good point is made in this thread. When comparing the benefits of electric cars to combustion cars, the costs of generating and transmitting the electricity from the power plants need to be included. Much of the propaganda about electric cars is spun as though the electricity from the outlet is free with no environmental costs. It is good to see people attempting to address this.

And tragic to see others consistently deny the reality of "Clean Energy"...

It ain't "Clean"...

It don't pay for itself...

And it can't survive without the Government paying Companies to create and paying Customers to buy it.

Even Wealthy Customers as is the case with the Subsidy you can get purchasing a $100,000 Tesla.

Some of them are Dishonest... Others are simply Ignorant.

We will pay for this later and these same Shits will blame "Corporations" for endless miles of useless Solar and Wind equipment, the Biohazards that they are... The Batteries in the 100's of millions of cars that are... And the Extremely Toxic process in which they are manufactured...

To then really be run on Natural Gas or Coal for the most part.



peace...

First you have to understand that the Tesla is engineered and priced to compete with high-end cars such as BMW and Cadillac (CTS-ATS). The fact is that this is new technology. In 1999 a 30" plasma TV cost $20,000.00. Not today, the same will happen with the Tesla.

The base Tesla is the same cost as a fully equipt F350.

The process of battery manufacturing is extremely toxic as is fossil fuel production. However, batteries are close to 100% recyclable which is something that fossil fuels can't claim.

 

[Dana7360]

^^ The last refuge of a RW dingbat- change the channel, fool.

Unfortunately, with today's new bs propaganda, pander to the greedy idiot rich, hater dupes ARE always wrong. Thanks for wrecking the nonrich and the country with Voodoo, 9/11 and the stupidest wars ever, a corrupt world depression, and 5 years of mindless obstruction, fear mongering, and phony crises.

Rush and Pub propaganda- aided by idiotic, cowardly, controversy and ratings only corporate media, almost killed the Chevy Volt, Motor Trend Car of the Year. STUPID bs about fires everywhere and costing $278k each (NOT, R and D when just a few produced- just all the facts left out...)- Now selling as hoped even without RW buyers...

We bought a Chevy Volt last year for my husband.

It's a great car.

We live about a mile from his work so it runs on the electricity most of the time.

I highly recommend the car.

 

[Old Rocks]

Speak for yourself. I live in California, we get almost none of our power from coal.

No, you just import power from out of state, which is generated by burning coal.

California buys electricity from my state.

We don't have any coal fire plants left in operation here. The last one is being shut down now.

We get our electricity from water, wind and sun.

We generate much more than we need and sell it to other states. California being one of them.

So no, they're not buying electricity that's been created from coal.

If you are speaking of Oregon, yes, we do use electricity from coal. From Wyoming. You see, most of the wind and hydro was funded by California, so they get first choice on buying that power. To make it up, we buy power from Wyoming, which is coal generated at present. Recent discoveries concerning geothermal and a huge resovoir of lithium rich high temperature and high pressure brine may change that shortly.

 

[beagle9]

This just in... The electric car you feel is creating no emissions is actually powered by coal in the most inefficient way humanly possible... Movie at 11.



peace...

Nay-sayers have this bad habit of leaving inevitable technological progress out of their glass-half-empty equations. No, solar power is not where it needs to be right now. Yes it will be in less than a life span. If you doubt that let me remind you....

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.

"Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes and weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, 1949

"I have traveled the length and breadth of this country and talked with the best people, and I can assure you that data processing is a fad that won't last out the year." -- The editor in charge of business books for Prentice Hall, 1957.

"But what...is it good for?" -- Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM, 1968, commenting on the microchip.

"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." -- Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977.

"640K ought to be enough for anybody." -- Attributed to Bill Gates, 1981

"This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us." -- Western Union internal memo, 1876.

"The Americans have need of the telephone, but we do not. We have plenty of messenger boys." -- Sir William Preece, chief engineer of the British Post Office, 1876.

"The wireless music box has no imaginable commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?" -- David Sarnoff's associates in response to his urgings for investment in the radio in the 1920s.

"While theoretically and technically television may be feasible, commercially and financially it is an impossibility." -- Lee DeForest, inventor.

"The concept is interesting and well-formed, but in order to earn better than a 'C', the idea must be feasible." -- A Yale University management professor in response to Fred Smith's paper proposing reliable overnight delivery service. (Smith went on to found Federal Express Corp.)

For an example of one R&D approach to solar power that may go a long way to solve the cloudy day problem check this out;

In a departure from 'blue sky thinking' scientists in Britain have developed solar panels that work better on a cloudy day.
Their material is as thin and flexible as cloth, and can be made in any colour and printed in sheets on a 3D printer.
Although the technology is still at development stage, researchers hope that in future it could be used to make coats or bags which could charge phones or laptops or keep the wearer warm.
It is so lightweight that it could also be fitted to homes cheaply without the need to reinforce roofs and would be virtually invisible so homeowners would not be forced to put up with the eyesore of solar panels.
Car manufactures Fiat and Ford are also testing it to see if it could be added to car roofs to charge electrical circuits and avoid flat batteries. - LINK: Wilbur to Orville - I'm not sure this thing will fly

You guys should worry less about today's limitations and think more of tomorrows possibilities.

Yes, but there is no reason to be hostile about the changes that are needed, and that is what Obama and crew has been doing since he took office. I mean standing there and saying once in power "Today American will be fundamentally changed", and this in an arrogant defiant way in my opinion was simply a shot across the bow, and especially in the way that he did it or said it. I mean it's so wonder that he has had to be hostile ever since. If you want something done, and you want for progress to continue, then you take the medicine and give it out slowly, and not shove it down peoples throats like they had begun doing.

They knew that they would get huge resistance on their threats, and so they used that as if the ones who were offended were the problem the whole time, and that they were only interested in holding America back. Everyone knows that you catch more flies with honey than you do with salt. Obama opened up a wound with his initial attack, and then he poured salt into it afterwards. This is why many are just trying to wait this feller out, and they have been stubborn on most that he has tried to get done with them, and they do this because they don't like being dictated too like they have been by this President.

 

[Dana7360]

No, you just import power from out of state, which is generated by burning coal.

California buys electricity from my state.

We don't have any coal fire plants left in operation here. The last one is being shut down now.

We get our electricity from water, wind and sun.

We generate much more than we need and sell it to other states. California being one of them.

So no, they're not buying electricity that's been created from coal.

If you are speaking of Oregon, yes, we do use electricity from coal. From Wyoming. You see, most of the wind and hydro was funded by California, so they get first choice on buying that power. To make it up, we buy power from Wyoming, which is coal generated at present. Recent discoveries concerning geothermal and a huge resovoir of lithium rich high temperature and high pressure brine may change that shortly.

It's very foolish to assume things before you get all the facts.

No I'm not talking about Oregon. Though I love the state.

Please don't try to put what Oregon does on my state. We aren't the same place.

When I posted that we have one coal fire plant left here and it's being shut down, I'm not lying.

You just don't like honest facts getting in the way of your lies.

Too bad. That's your problem. .

 

[mal]

This just in... The electric car you feel is creating no emissions is actually powered by coal in the most inefficient way humanly possible... Movie at 11.



peace...

No it's not in my state.

Our one and only coal fire plant is being shut down. It's no longer in use and generating dirty energy. All of the nuclear plants are shut down and all that's happening there is clean up.

Our electric car runs on electricity that's generated from water, wind and the sun. Around 60% of our electricity comes from water and the rest from alternative sources.

We started building our wind farms in the 1990s and now have one of the largest wind farms in the world. Many parts of my state are like the Saudi Arabia of wind in that it never stops blowing and is a constant source of power.

When the windmills were first built and bought on line it was way too much energy for our existing grid to handle. So we voted to increase our taxes to pay to build a new, larger grid to handle all that electricity the windmills generated.

It generates so much electricity that we don't use it all and sell it to other states.

We also have some of the lowest electric rates in the nation.

So go ahead and spread your lies, most people aren't buying it anymore.

What state?...



peace...

 

[bripat9643]

A good point is made in this thread. When comparing the benefits of electric cars to combustion cars, the costs of generating and transmitting the electricity from the power plants need to be included. Much of the propaganda about electric cars is spun as though the electricity from the outlet is free with no environmental costs. It is good to see people attempting to address this.

And tragic to see others consistently deny the reality of "Clean Energy"...

It ain't "Clean"...

It don't pay for itself...

And it can't survive without the Government paying Companies to create and paying Customers to buy it.

Where "clean energy" is above ...

Plug in (pun intended) "oil energy". Or "natural gas". Or "the electrical grid". Or "coal energy". Or "nuclear power". Or "the interstate highway system". The same thing, works every time.

No it doesn't, dumb shit. Despite the imaginary "subsidies" liberals are always whining about, the oil industry generates hundreds of billions of dollars in revenue for federal and state governments every year. The same goes for coal, natural gas and the "electric grid." "Green energy" schemes, on the other hand, cost the taxpayers billions of dollars every year. There' is no revenue to the federal government from green energy. It will always be a black hole for the taxpayer's money.

If you really wanna pretend institutional subsidation of technologies for national public improvement is some kind of new idea, you're gonna need a dumber audience.

Take all your claimed imaginary "subsidies" away from oil, and consumers will still be putting gas in their car 50 years from now. Take subsidies away from solar power and electric vehicles, and they disappear overnight.

That's the bottom line.

 

[itfitzme]

Speak for yourself. I live in California, we get almost none of our power from coal.

You get it from Magic Fairies like Howey in Hollywood?...

Electricity is a PAINFULLY Inefficient Source for Power for moving something that weighs as much as a car.

So if it's Nuclear that is the source for your plug or whatever it is, it's still a REALLY Stoo-pit use of Power.

And for the Record... Cali's Energy Sources for Electricity:

Natural Gas 46.5%
Nuclear 14.9%
Large Hydro 9.6%
Coal 15.5%
Renewables 13.5%

Again... Plug in Cars are Stoo-pit.



peace...

As far as I've read, electric engines are actually significantly more efficient in every measurable way than internal combustion engines. Do you have a source for your claims?

Electric engines don't lose all that heat energy lost in internal combustion.

Electric motors have always been extremely efficient at ratings of 95% and higher.

 

[bripat9643]

This just in... The electric car you feel is creating no emissions is actually powered by coal in the most inefficient way humanly possible... Movie at 11.



peace...

No it's not in my state.

Our one and only coal fire plant is being shut down. It's no longer in use and generating dirty energy. All of the nuclear plants are shut down and all that's happening there is clean up.

Our electric car runs on electricity that's generated from water, wind and the sun. Around 60% of our electricity comes from water and the rest from alternative sources.

We started building our wind farms in the 1990s and now have one of the largest wind farms in the world. Many parts of my state are like the Saudi Arabia of wind in that it never stops blowing and is a constant source of power.

When the windmills were first built and bought on line it was way too much energy for our existing grid to handle. So we voted to increase our taxes to pay to build a new, larger grid to handle all that electricity the windmills generated.

It generates so much electricity that we don't use it all and sell it to other states.

We also have some of the lowest electric rates in the nation.

So go ahead and spread your lies, most people aren't buying it anymore.

Which state is that? We can determine for ourselves how low your rates are.

 

[bripat9643]

Speak for yourself. I live in California, we get almost none of our power from coal.

No, you just import power from out of state, which is generated by burning coal.

California buys electricity from my state.

We don't have any coal fire plants left in operation here. The last one is being shut down now.

We get our electricity from water, wind and sun.

We generate much more than we need and sell it to other states. California being one of them.

So no, they're not buying electricity that's been created from coal.

California imports a lot of power from Utah and Nevada. A lot of it comes from the Four Corners plant, which is one of the largest coal fired plants in the world.

 

[bripat9643]

A good point is made in this thread. When comparing the benefits of electric cars to combustion cars, the costs of generating and transmitting the electricity from the power plants need to be included. Much of the propaganda about electric cars is spun as though the electricity from the outlet is free with no environmental costs. It is good to see people attempting to address this.

And tragic to see others consistently deny the reality of "Clean Energy"...

It ain't "Clean"...

It don't pay for itself...

And it can't survive without the Government paying Companies to create and paying Customers to buy it.

Even Wealthy Customers as is the case with the Subsidy you can get purchasing a $100,000 Tesla.

Some of them are Dishonest... Others are simply Ignorant.

We will pay for this later and these same Shits will blame "Corporations" for endless miles of useless Solar and Wind equipment, the Biohazards that they are... The Batteries in the 100's of millions of cars that are... And the Extremely Toxic process in which they are manufactured...

To then really be run on Natural Gas or Coal for the most part.



peace...

First you have to understand that the Tesla is engineered and priced to compete with high-end cars such as BMW and Cadillac (CTS-ATS). The fact is that this is new technology. In 1999 a 30" plasma TV cost $20,000.00. Not today, the same will happen with the Tesla.

The base Tesla is the same cost as a fully equipt F350.

The process of battery manufacturing is extremely toxic as is fossil fuel production. However, batteries are close to 100% recyclable which is something that fossil fuels can't claim.

AGW cult members suffer this delusion that electric vehicles and clean energy can undergo the same cost reduction curve as consumer electronics. They simply don't understand that there is a fundamental difference. Electronics can improve by orders of magnitude without consuming any additional resources. All that's required is an increase in the complexity of the product, which is easily accomplished with automation. What the eco-wackos fail to understand is that Moore's law does not apply to their "clean energy" fantasies. So-called "clean energy" and electric vehicles cannot improve their performance without consuming more raw materials. Simple changes in the design of some circuit is not going to increase the range of a Tesla. It takes a bigger battery and more expensive raw materials. And they are also butting up against the laws of thermodynamics.

 

[bripat9643]

Wrong... But that is a cute Evasion... Ravi's old Keeper in the Red used to Employ it when he was too fucking drunk to remember he was Failing in Debate.

That was usually around the 1st of the month and the week following.



peace...

I really need to spell it out? Tsk tsk...

Gummimental subsidies to get a technology online for the public superstructure (which is where you started) is in no way related to what some private corporation pays in their income taxes a century later (which is where you teleported to, goalpost and all).

On the other hand, $2.4 Billion in annual tax deductions the Big Oil Five (including Exxon) for a technology already established to the level of, as the last POTUS described it, an "addiction", are explored under the "FAQ" part of my second link there.

Nor does Ravi, or some "keeper in the red" whatever the fuck that means, have anything to do with this post.




Who knew.

The government spent no money getting the oil industry online or the coal mining industry or the natural gas industry. Comparisons between "green energy" and the oil industry are entirely fatuous. There is no comparison.

AGW cultists are so ignorant about history that they imagine the way government works now is the same way it worked 150 years ago when the oil industry began. They actually imagine that the government was spreading around billions of dollars to create oil drilling and refining technology. They do this because they are such utterly servile toadies that they can't imagine anything occurring without the government being behind it.

 

[bripat9643]

A good point is made in this thread. When comparing the benefits of electric cars to combustion cars, the costs of generating and transmitting the electricity from the power plants need to be included. Much of the propaganda about electric cars is spun as though the electricity from the outlet is free with no environmental costs. It is good to see people attempting to address this.

And tragic to see others consistently deny the reality of "Clean Energy"...

It ain't "Clean"...

It don't pay for itself...

And it can't survive without the Government paying Companies to create and paying Customers to buy it.

Where "clean energy" is above ...

Plug in (pun intended) "oil energy". Or "natural gas". Or "the electrical grid". Or "coal energy". Or "nuclear power". Or "the interstate highway system". The same thing, works every time.

No it doesn't, numskull. "Clean energy" never has produced any revenue for the government, and it never will. It will always be a suckhole for the taxpayer's money.

If you really wanna pretend institutional subsidation of technologies for national public improvement is some kind of new idea, you're gonna need a dumber audience.

It's not a new idea, but it's always been a bad idea, and it's always been a suckhole for the taxpayer's money that never produces a return on the investment.

 

[bripat9643]

^^ The last refuge of a RW dingbat- change the channel, fool.

Unfortunately, with today's new bs propaganda, pander to the greedy idiot rich, hater dupes ARE always wrong. Thanks for wrecking the nonrich and the country with Voodoo, 9/11 and the stupidest wars ever, a corrupt world depression, and 5 years of mindless obstruction, fear mongering, and phony crises.

Rush and Pub propaganda- aided by idiotic, cowardly, controversy and ratings only corporate media, almost killed the Chevy Volt, Motor Trend Car of the Year. STUPID bs about fires everywhere and costing $278k each (NOT, R and D when just a few produced- just all the facts left out...)- Now selling as hoped even without RW buyers...

We bought a Chevy Volt last year for my husband.

It's a great car.

We live about a mile from his work so it runs on the electricity most of the time.

I highly recommend the car.

It goes a whole mile without using up the battery?

Holy samoly! Stop the presses!

 

[Pogo]

Are you done yet, Finger Boy?

As I said before --- if only we could run cars on butthurt....

 

[bripat9643]

Are you done yet, Finger Boy?

As I said before --- if only we could run cars on butthurt....

That's about as feasible as "clean energy."

 

[Dana7360]

No, you just import power from out of state, which is generated by burning coal.

California buys electricity from my state.

We don't have any coal fire plants left in operation here. The last one is being shut down now.

We get our electricity from water, wind and sun.

We generate much more than we need and sell it to other states. California being one of them.

So no, they're not buying electricity that's been created from coal.

California imports a lot of power from Utah and Nevada. A lot of it comes from the Four Corners plant, which is one of the largest coal fired plants in the world.

California has been buying electricity from my state for years. We don't use coal to generate electricity.

The worst we do is natural gas but it's what is used to generate electricity. It's used to heat homes, heat water tanks and to cook with here.

When you flip the on switch for your lights or anything that's plugged into a socket, the electricity is generated mostly from water but also from alternative sources like the wind and sun.

It's the same electricity we sell to California so not all of the electricity that California buys is generated from coal.

 

[Dana7360]

This just in... The electric car you feel is creating no emissions is actually powered by coal in the most inefficient way humanly possible... Movie at 11.



peace...

No it's not in my state.

Our one and only coal fire plant is being shut down. It's no longer in use and generating dirty energy. All of the nuclear plants are shut down and all that's happening there is clean up.

Our electric car runs on electricity that's generated from water, wind and the sun. Around 60% of our electricity comes from water and the rest from alternative sources.

We started building our wind farms in the 1990s and now have one of the largest wind farms in the world. Many parts of my state are like the Saudi Arabia of wind in that it never stops blowing and is a constant source of power.

When the windmills were first built and bought on line it was way too much energy for our existing grid to handle. So we voted to increase our taxes to pay to build a new, larger grid to handle all that electricity the windmills generated.

It generates so much electricity that we don't use it all and sell it to other states.

We also have some of the lowest electric rates in the nation.

So go ahead and spread your lies, most people aren't buying it anymore.

Which state is that? We can determine for ourselves how low your rates are.

There are only 2 other states in America that have lower rates for electricity than mine.

Those states are Idaho and West Virginia.

Idaho is one tenth of one cent cheaper than we are.

West Virginia is two tenths of one cent lower than we are.

The rest of the nation pays more than we do for electricity.

If you want to know what state I'm in then do a simple search in any search engine. I suggest Bing.

 

[bripat9643]

No it's not in my state.

Our one and only coal fire plant is being shut down. It's no longer in use and generating dirty energy. All of the nuclear plants are shut down and all that's happening there is clean up.

Our electric car runs on electricity that's generated from water, wind and the sun. Around 60% of our electricity comes from water and the rest from alternative sources.

We started building our wind farms in the 1990s and now have one of the largest wind farms in the world. Many parts of my state are like the Saudi Arabia of wind in that it never stops blowing and is a constant source of power.

When the windmills were first built and bought on line it was way too much energy for our existing grid to handle. So we voted to increase our taxes to pay to build a new, larger grid to handle all that electricity the windmills generated.

It generates so much electricity that we don't use it all and sell it to other states.

We also have some of the lowest electric rates in the nation.

So go ahead and spread your lies, most people aren't buying it anymore.

Which state is that? We can determine for ourselves how low your rates are.

There are only 2 other states in America that have lower rates for electricity than mine.

Those states are Idaho and West Virginia.

Idaho is one tenth of one cent cheaper than we are.

West Virginia is two tenths of one cent lower than we are.

The rest of the nation pays more than we do for electricity.

If you want to know what state I'm in then do a simple search in any search engine. I suggest Bing.

If you don't want to tell us, then shut the fuck up. Don't tell me to google it.