The Fair Tax Primer

[HappyJoy]

The Fair Tax bill was sponsored by Rep. Woodall, Rob [GA-07].


Here are the co-sponsors:

Rep. Bilirakis, Gus M. [R-FL-12]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Bridenstine, Jim [R-OK-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Brooks, Mo [R-AL-5]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Carter, John R. [R-TX-31]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Collins, Doug [R-GA-9]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Conaway, K. Michael [R-TX-11]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Culberson, John Abney [R-TX-7]* 01/03/2017
Rep. DesJarlais, Scott [R-TN-4]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Duncan, John J., Jr. [R-TN-2]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Foxx, Virginia [R-NC-5]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Franks, Trent [R-AZ-8]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Graves, Sam [R-MO-6]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Graves, Tom [R-GA-14]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Issa, Darrell E. [R-CA-49]* 01/03/2017
Rep. King, Steve [R-IA-4]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Lucas, Frank D. [R-OK-3]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Massie, Thomas [R-KY-4]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Mullin, Markwayne [R-OK-2]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Olson, Pete [R-TX-22]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Pearce, Stevan [R-NM-2]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Poe, Ted [R-TX-2]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Roe, David P. [R-TN-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Sanford, Mark [R-SC-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Walberg, Tim [R-MI-7]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Yoho, Ted S. [R-FL-3]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Young, Don [R-AK-At Large]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Emmer, Tom [R-MN-6]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Ratcliffe, John [R-TX-4]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Hice, Jody B. [R-GA-10]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Loudermilk, Barry [R-GA-11]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Carter, Earl L. "Buddy" [R-GA-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Chabot, Steve [R-OH-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Bishop, Rob [R-UT-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Posey, Bill [R-FL-8]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Gaetz, Matt [R-FL-1] 01/10/2017
Rep. Hensarling, Jeb [R-TX-5] 02/13/2017
Rep. Farenthold, Blake [R-TX-27] 03/01/2017
Rep. Garrett, Thomas A., Jr. [R-VA-5] 03/13/2017
Rep. Banks, Jim [R-IN-3] 03/27/2017
Rep. Wittman, Robert J. [R-VA-1] 04/14/2017
Rep. Flores, Bill [R-TX-17] 04/14/2017
Rep. Duncan, Jeff [R-SC-3] 06/28/2017
Rep. DeSantis, Ron [R-FL-6] 07/11/2017
Rep. Long, Billy [R-MO-7] 07/19/2017
Rep. Marchant, Kenny [R-TX-24] 07/28/2017
Rep. Ferguson, A. Drew, IV [R-GA-3]

Gonna' have a hard time passing that without bipartisan support which it will never get.

Not necessarily. The dems want soc sec and medicare. With the current leadership in both parties it's a no go though

Almost everyone wants social security and medicare. You remove those and somebody isn't coming back to Washington.

 

[Some Guy]

They'll pay less as a percentage since they won't pay any taxes on money they don't spend and they have a lot of that.

I can understand reviewing and removing unnecessary tax write offs or those that don't benefit society I just think a progressive tax system is the fairest.

The usual justification i hear for making the rich pay a higher percentage of taxes is that "they benefit more from the system in place therefore they should pay more." How do they benefit more if they're not consuming more? Capital is just capital: it's not a benefit until it's actually turned into something tangible, and the way that's done is exchanging money for goods and services.

Your idea of "fair" is making the rich pay more simply based on the fact that they have more. Which, in the fair tax, is making them pay more based on the fact that they can and do buy more. My idea of fair is paying the same rate on the goods and services you consume regardless of how much capital you have to spend on other goods and services other than the one immediately in focus. I guess we just have different views of what's "fair."

 

[bendog]

The Fair Tax bill was sponsored by Rep. Woodall, Rob [GA-07].


Here are the co-sponsors:

Rep. Bilirakis, Gus M. [R-FL-12]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Bridenstine, Jim [R-OK-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Brooks, Mo [R-AL-5]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Carter, John R. [R-TX-31]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Collins, Doug [R-GA-9]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Conaway, K. Michael [R-TX-11]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Culberson, John Abney [R-TX-7]* 01/03/2017
Rep. DesJarlais, Scott [R-TN-4]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Duncan, John J., Jr. [R-TN-2]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Foxx, Virginia [R-NC-5]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Franks, Trent [R-AZ-8]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Graves, Sam [R-MO-6]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Graves, Tom [R-GA-14]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Issa, Darrell E. [R-CA-49]* 01/03/2017
Rep. King, Steve [R-IA-4]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Lucas, Frank D. [R-OK-3]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Massie, Thomas [R-KY-4]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Mullin, Markwayne [R-OK-2]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Olson, Pete [R-TX-22]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Pearce, Stevan [R-NM-2]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Poe, Ted [R-TX-2]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Roe, David P. [R-TN-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Sanford, Mark [R-SC-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Walberg, Tim [R-MI-7]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Yoho, Ted S. [R-FL-3]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Young, Don [R-AK-At Large]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Emmer, Tom [R-MN-6]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Ratcliffe, John [R-TX-4]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Hice, Jody B. [R-GA-10]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Loudermilk, Barry [R-GA-11]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Carter, Earl L. "Buddy" [R-GA-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Chabot, Steve [R-OH-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Bishop, Rob [R-UT-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Posey, Bill [R-FL-8]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Gaetz, Matt [R-FL-1] 01/10/2017
Rep. Hensarling, Jeb [R-TX-5] 02/13/2017
Rep. Farenthold, Blake [R-TX-27] 03/01/2017
Rep. Garrett, Thomas A., Jr. [R-VA-5] 03/13/2017
Rep. Banks, Jim [R-IN-3] 03/27/2017
Rep. Wittman, Robert J. [R-VA-1] 04/14/2017
Rep. Flores, Bill [R-TX-17] 04/14/2017
Rep. Duncan, Jeff [R-SC-3] 06/28/2017
Rep. DeSantis, Ron [R-FL-6] 07/11/2017
Rep. Long, Billy [R-MO-7] 07/19/2017
Rep. Marchant, Kenny [R-TX-24] 07/28/2017
Rep. Ferguson, A. Drew, IV [R-GA-3]

Gonna' have a hard time passing that without bipartisan support which it will never get.

Not necessarily. The dems want soc sec and medicare. With the current leadership in both parties it's a no go though

Almost everyone wants social security and medicare. You remove those and somebody isn't coming back to Washington.

Well the starve the beast gopers don't. They want them cut.

 

[HappyJoy]

They'll pay less as a percentage since they won't pay any taxes on money they don't spend and they have a lot of that.

I can understand reviewing and removing unnecessary tax write offs or those that don't benefit society I just think a progressive tax system is the fairest.

The usual justification i hear for making the rich pay a higher percentage of taxes is that "they benefit more from the system in place therefore they should pay more." How do they benefit more if they're not consuming more? Capital is just capital: it's not a benefit until it's actually turned into something tangible, and the way that's done is exchanging money for goods and services.

They do consume more but so much more of their income would not be taxed where as poorer Americans more of their income would be taxed. Where is the benefit for the country? I just don't see it.

Your idea of "fair" is making the rich pay more simply based on the fact that they have more. Which, in the fair tax, is making them pay more based on the fact that they can and do buy more. My idea of fair is paying the same rate on the goods and services you consume regardless of how much capital you have to spend on other goods and services other than the one immediately in focus. I guess we just have different views of what's "fair."

When you're rich you can invest and grow your money tax free under this plan. While the poor would have no choice to but to pay as they go. I just don't understand moving the tax burden from those who can easily afford it to those who can't. Where is the benefit?

 

[g5000]

The Fair Tax bill was sponsored by Rep. Woodall, Rob [GA-07].


Here are the co-sponsors:

Rep. Bilirakis, Gus M. [R-FL-12]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Bridenstine, Jim [R-OK-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Brooks, Mo [R-AL-5]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Carter, John R. [R-TX-31]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Collins, Doug [R-GA-9]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Conaway, K. Michael [R-TX-11]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Culberson, John Abney [R-TX-7]* 01/03/2017
Rep. DesJarlais, Scott [R-TN-4]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Duncan, John J., Jr. [R-TN-2]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Foxx, Virginia [R-NC-5]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Franks, Trent [R-AZ-8]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Graves, Sam [R-MO-6]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Graves, Tom [R-GA-14]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Issa, Darrell E. [R-CA-49]* 01/03/2017
Rep. King, Steve [R-IA-4]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Lucas, Frank D. [R-OK-3]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Massie, Thomas [R-KY-4]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Mullin, Markwayne [R-OK-2]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Olson, Pete [R-TX-22]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Pearce, Stevan [R-NM-2]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Poe, Ted [R-TX-2]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Roe, David P. [R-TN-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Sanford, Mark [R-SC-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Walberg, Tim [R-MI-7]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Yoho, Ted S. [R-FL-3]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Young, Don [R-AK-At Large]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Emmer, Tom [R-MN-6]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Ratcliffe, John [R-TX-4]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Hice, Jody B. [R-GA-10]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Loudermilk, Barry [R-GA-11]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Carter, Earl L. "Buddy" [R-GA-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Chabot, Steve [R-OH-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Bishop, Rob [R-UT-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Posey, Bill [R-FL-8]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Gaetz, Matt [R-FL-1] 01/10/2017
Rep. Hensarling, Jeb [R-TX-5] 02/13/2017
Rep. Farenthold, Blake [R-TX-27] 03/01/2017
Rep. Garrett, Thomas A., Jr. [R-VA-5] 03/13/2017
Rep. Banks, Jim [R-IN-3] 03/27/2017
Rep. Wittman, Robert J. [R-VA-1] 04/14/2017
Rep. Flores, Bill [R-TX-17] 04/14/2017
Rep. Duncan, Jeff [R-SC-3] 06/28/2017
Rep. DeSantis, Ron [R-FL-6] 07/11/2017
Rep. Long, Billy [R-MO-7] 07/19/2017
Rep. Marchant, Kenny [R-TX-24] 07/28/2017
Rep. Ferguson, A. Drew, IV [R-GA-3]

Gonna' have a hard time passing that without bipartisan support which it will never get.

Not necessarily. The dems want soc sec and medicare. With the current leadership in both parties it's a no go though

Almost everyone wants social security and medicare. You remove those and somebody isn't coming back to Washington.

Well the starve the beast gopers don't. They want them cut.

That whole "starve the beast" thing was yet another Republican hoax.

I like to ask people if they have ever read Grover Norquist's "Taxpayer Protection Pledge".

If they say they have read it, I like to ask if they notice anything missing.

Starve the beast - Wikipedia

Taxpayer Protection Pledge - Wikipedia

 

[HappyJoy]

The Fair Tax bill was sponsored by Rep. Woodall, Rob [GA-07].


Here are the co-sponsors:

Rep. Bilirakis, Gus M. [R-FL-12]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Bridenstine, Jim [R-OK-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Brooks, Mo [R-AL-5]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Carter, John R. [R-TX-31]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Collins, Doug [R-GA-9]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Conaway, K. Michael [R-TX-11]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Culberson, John Abney [R-TX-7]* 01/03/2017
Rep. DesJarlais, Scott [R-TN-4]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Duncan, John J., Jr. [R-TN-2]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Foxx, Virginia [R-NC-5]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Franks, Trent [R-AZ-8]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Graves, Sam [R-MO-6]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Graves, Tom [R-GA-14]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Issa, Darrell E. [R-CA-49]* 01/03/2017
Rep. King, Steve [R-IA-4]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Lucas, Frank D. [R-OK-3]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Massie, Thomas [R-KY-4]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Mullin, Markwayne [R-OK-2]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Olson, Pete [R-TX-22]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Pearce, Stevan [R-NM-2]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Poe, Ted [R-TX-2]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Roe, David P. [R-TN-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Sanford, Mark [R-SC-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Walberg, Tim [R-MI-7]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Yoho, Ted S. [R-FL-3]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Young, Don [R-AK-At Large]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Emmer, Tom [R-MN-6]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Ratcliffe, John [R-TX-4]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Hice, Jody B. [R-GA-10]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Loudermilk, Barry [R-GA-11]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Carter, Earl L. "Buddy" [R-GA-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Chabot, Steve [R-OH-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Bishop, Rob [R-UT-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Posey, Bill [R-FL-8]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Gaetz, Matt [R-FL-1] 01/10/2017
Rep. Hensarling, Jeb [R-TX-5] 02/13/2017
Rep. Farenthold, Blake [R-TX-27] 03/01/2017
Rep. Garrett, Thomas A., Jr. [R-VA-5] 03/13/2017
Rep. Banks, Jim [R-IN-3] 03/27/2017
Rep. Wittman, Robert J. [R-VA-1] 04/14/2017
Rep. Flores, Bill [R-TX-17] 04/14/2017
Rep. Duncan, Jeff [R-SC-3] 06/28/2017
Rep. DeSantis, Ron [R-FL-6] 07/11/2017
Rep. Long, Billy [R-MO-7] 07/19/2017
Rep. Marchant, Kenny [R-TX-24] 07/28/2017
Rep. Ferguson, A. Drew, IV [R-GA-3]

Gonna' have a hard time passing that without bipartisan support which it will never get.

Not necessarily. The dems want soc sec and medicare. With the current leadership in both parties it's a no go though

Almost everyone wants social security and medicare. You remove those and somebody isn't coming back to Washington.

Well the starve the beast gopers don't. They want them cut.

I think a majority of Americans though want to keep both. Sorry, I think I am misunderstanding our point here about SS and medicare.

 

[g5000]

Here is the federal version of the Taxpayer Protection Pledge:

ONE, oppose any and all efforts to increase the marginal income tax rates for individuals and/or businesses; and

TWO, oppose any net reduction or elimination of deductions and credits, unless matched dollar for dollar by further reducing tax rates.


Here is the state version:

I will oppose and vote against any and all efforts to increase taxes.



Anyone else notice the glaring omission which makes this pledge a giant hoax?



.

 

[bendog]

The Fair Tax bill was sponsored by Rep. Woodall, Rob [GA-07].


Here are the co-sponsors:

Rep. Bilirakis, Gus M. [R-FL-12]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Bridenstine, Jim [R-OK-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Brooks, Mo [R-AL-5]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Carter, John R. [R-TX-31]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Collins, Doug [R-GA-9]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Conaway, K. Michael [R-TX-11]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Culberson, John Abney [R-TX-7]* 01/03/2017
Rep. DesJarlais, Scott [R-TN-4]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Duncan, John J., Jr. [R-TN-2]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Foxx, Virginia [R-NC-5]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Franks, Trent [R-AZ-8]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Graves, Sam [R-MO-6]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Graves, Tom [R-GA-14]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Issa, Darrell E. [R-CA-49]* 01/03/2017
Rep. King, Steve [R-IA-4]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Lucas, Frank D. [R-OK-3]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Massie, Thomas [R-KY-4]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Mullin, Markwayne [R-OK-2]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Olson, Pete [R-TX-22]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Pearce, Stevan [R-NM-2]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Poe, Ted [R-TX-2]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Roe, David P. [R-TN-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Sanford, Mark [R-SC-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Walberg, Tim [R-MI-7]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Yoho, Ted S. [R-FL-3]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Young, Don [R-AK-At Large]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Emmer, Tom [R-MN-6]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Ratcliffe, John [R-TX-4]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Hice, Jody B. [R-GA-10]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Loudermilk, Barry [R-GA-11]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Carter, Earl L. "Buddy" [R-GA-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Chabot, Steve [R-OH-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Bishop, Rob [R-UT-1]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Posey, Bill [R-FL-8]* 01/03/2017
Rep. Gaetz, Matt [R-FL-1] 01/10/2017
Rep. Hensarling, Jeb [R-TX-5] 02/13/2017
Rep. Farenthold, Blake [R-TX-27] 03/01/2017
Rep. Garrett, Thomas A., Jr. [R-VA-5] 03/13/2017
Rep. Banks, Jim [R-IN-3] 03/27/2017
Rep. Wittman, Robert J. [R-VA-1] 04/14/2017
Rep. Flores, Bill [R-TX-17] 04/14/2017
Rep. Duncan, Jeff [R-SC-3] 06/28/2017
Rep. DeSantis, Ron [R-FL-6] 07/11/2017
Rep. Long, Billy [R-MO-7] 07/19/2017
Rep. Marchant, Kenny [R-TX-24] 07/28/2017
Rep. Ferguson, A. Drew, IV [R-GA-3]

Gonna' have a hard time passing that without bipartisan support which it will never get.

Not necessarily. The dems want soc sec and medicare. With the current leadership in both parties it's a no go though

Almost everyone wants social security and medicare. You remove those and somebody isn't coming back to Washington.

Well the starve the beast gopers don't. They want them cut.

I think a majority of Americans though want to keep both. Sorry, I think I am misunderstanding our point here about SS and medicare.

I don't really have a point (-: other than governance by compromise. The budgetary reality is that when interest rates go up, which inevitably they will at some time, we will have to choose between servicing the debt, the military and soc sec medicare. Possibly we can have two of the three, but I doubt that unless there is more revenue..

The Starve the Beast gopers, like Ryan, are betting that they can kill or radically shrink soc sec and medicare. I think they are fooling themselves. But when new revenue is necessary, then tax and spending compromise may be possible ... if we actually have someone interested in governing as potus.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I believe we should repeal income taxes and enact a Fair Tax.

I believe consumption taxes are superior to taxes on production.

At the same time, I acknowledge a sales tax is regressive.

There are at least two big advantages to a sales tax, however. First, everyone has to pay it. Second, it is a lot harder to hide a tax hike.

You want to give free puppies to hookers? Fine, we'll raise the sales tax to pay for that.

Say what!?!

Suddenly, people won't be so quick to give away taxpayer dollars any more. The days of "gimme gimme gimme, and make that guy over there pay for it" will end. A hike in the Fair Tax will affect everyone!


The Fair Tax is a kind of sales tax, however it attempts to mitigate the regressive nature of a sales tax with a "prebate".

Each month, every adult American would receive a stipend which would offset the tax on things we all have to buy to survive. The prebate would be the same for everyone. A person in abject poverty gets the same prebate as Bill Gates.

That, in a nutshell, is the Fair Tax.

In subsequent posts, I will discuss some of the difficulties in implementing the Fair Tax. But let's get the ball rolling with your thoughts first.

They've been pushing HR 25 for 20 years. It's simply not going to happen.

 

[HappyJoy]

Gonna' have a hard time passing that without bipartisan support which it will never get.

Not necessarily. The dems want soc sec and medicare. With the current leadership in both parties it's a no go though

Almost everyone wants social security and medicare. You remove those and somebody isn't coming back to Washington.

Well the starve the beast gopers don't. They want them cut.

I think a majority of Americans though want to keep both. Sorry, I think I am misunderstanding our point here about SS and medicare.

I don't really have a point (-: other than governance by compromise. The budgetary reality is that when interest rates go up, which inevitably they will at some time, we will have to choose between servicing the debt, the military and soc sec medicare. Possibly we can have two of the three, but I doubt that unless there is more revenue..

Or raise taxes, we're never going to get control of the debt without that, but yes, I agree compromises.

The Starve the Beast gopers, like Ryan, are betting that they can kill or radically shrink soc sec and medicare. I think they are fooling themselves. But when new revenue is necessary, then tax and spending compromise may be possible ... if we actually have someone interested in governing as potus.

Yep.

 

[Skull Pilot]

My only issue with the Fair Tax is the "prebate" thing.

It seems silly to charge a higher rate of a tax only to have to incur the cost if giving every single person in the country a check every month

 

[BluesLegend]

First cut BLOATED government spending then we can talk about taxes.

Start with the Pentagon.

No argument, in 2016 they identified $400 billion in government waste and fraud, happy to cut every dollar of that in the Pentagon.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I believe we should repeal income taxes and enact a Fair Tax.

I believe consumption taxes are superior to taxes on production.

At the same time, I acknowledge a sales tax is regressive.

There are at least two big advantages to a sales tax, however. First, everyone has to pay it. Second, it is a lot harder to hide a tax hike.

You want to give free puppies to hookers? Fine, we'll raise the sales tax to pay for that.

Say what!?!

Suddenly, people won't be so quick to give away taxpayer dollars any more. The days of "gimme gimme gimme, and make that guy over there pay for it" will end. A hike in the Fair Tax will affect everyone!


The Fair Tax is a kind of sales tax, however it attempts to mitigate the regressive nature of a sales tax with a "prebate".

Each month, every adult American would receive a stipend which would offset the tax on things we all have to buy to survive. The prebate would be the same for everyone. A person in abject poverty gets the same prebate as Bill Gates.

That, in a nutshell, is the Fair Tax.

In subsequent posts, I will discuss some of the difficulties in implementing the Fair Tax. But let's get the ball rolling with your thoughts first.

Federal income tax was originally meant to tax the wealthy when implemented in 1913. Back then it was a tax on anyone making over $100,000. Today that would equate to $2.5 million.

I think the first $75,000 for every citizen should be exempt. You make $50,600 you pay no income tax. Then 4 brackets. 15%, 25%, 35%, 60%. Yes it shifts the tax burden to people with money that can afford it and yes 60% on anyone making over say $3 million. Over the last 100 years the wealthy have shifted the tax burden as much as they can to the poor and middle class.

Time for a correction. You gain wealth from a society you should pay more back to that society to keep it functioning properly.

The 16th Amendment: classic example of unintended consequences.

 

[BluesLegend]

First cut BLOATED government spending then we can talk about taxes.

Start with the Pentagon.

Raise the Social Security and Medicare eligibility age to 70, and index the age to 9 percent of the population going forward.

Right, a 70 year old granny can stand all day on a factory floor. Hopefully she will die before she collects one dime of the social security and medicare benefits she was forced to purchase. Hell lets raise the age to 80.

 

[martybegan]

Why not just scale the tax rate like income tax? To me the whole idea of everyone getting a monthly government check is a non-starter.

Exempt non-prepared food, exempt medicine, and clothes under $50 bucks.

Everything else gets taxed on a rising scale.

As soon as you open the door to exemptions, you have opened the door to wide spread corruption. Our current tax structure has been thoroughly corrupted by carve-outs for special interests. We need to slam that door and nail it shut. ZERO exemptions.

Otherwise, you will have politicians being bribed with large wads of campaign cash to exempt milk, coal, yachts, rubber duckies, popsicles with plastic sticks (but not wooden ones), Trump office supplies, and so on and so on and so on.

As soon as you allow exemptions, you have to increase the Fair Tax to offset those exemptions. Everyone suffers for it. Exemptions are theft.

I think making everyone dependent on a government check every month is far worse, and far worse than the current situation.

Everyone is already dependent on the government. They are dependent on the government for their child tax credit, their mortgage insurance deduction, their employer sponsored health insurance tax exemption, and so on and so on and so on.

They are dependent to the tune of $1.4 trillion of gifts every year!

But now your plan puts it right in front of people. The government becomes your sugar daddy explicitly.

That's the definition of transparency!

A great many of the people on this forum have demonstrated they are incredibly ignorant of just how dependent on the government they are. Including yourself!

And things were going so nice until you had to go to your smug fuckhole mode.

It's transparent in a bad way. But as you do with anything Trump, you get fixated and go asshole.

Fuck you.

 

[martybegan]

But now your plan puts it right in front of people. The government becomes your sugar daddy explicitly.

I think you're not completely off-base. The idea of the government controlling what is an acceptable amount of money for a "minimal" or "basic" standard of living turns my stomach. And the idea of the government sending me a check every month like a permission slip to buy food does as well.

Relative to what we have going on now though? Some distorted amalgam of convoluted and complicated laws whereby the government will preemptively take some amount of your money and hold onto it for you? That's worse. So from a relative standpoint, it's a reluctant improvement.

From there, the idea of taxing consumption rather than income... i love it. Rather than government directly stealing your labor from you, you're in more control of just how much tax you pay in relation to just how much you want to enjoy the fruits of your labor.

I agree as well, but I don't have G5000's deathwish on any exemptions for certain low cost nessasary items.

The corruption of exemptions would not stop at "low cost necessary items". Just look at the $1.4 trillion of exemptions, deductions, and credits there are now!

What you have always failed to comprehend is that every exemption must be offset either by higher tax rates or by borrowing. Exemptions are therefore theft. Wealth redistribution.

So...ZERO exemptions. That is the greater good.

No, they are not "theft". They may not be fair to you, but "theft" implies it's the government's money in the first place.

Once again you show you are an OCD idiot.

 

[martybegan]

I agree as well, but I don't have G5000's deathwish on any exemptions for certain low cost nessasary items.

Perhaps the same goal could be achieved via a designation on certain items that simply aren't taxed. Slippery slope there for sure, but food (or certain food items), toilet paper, shampoo, etc... that's all not taxed at all. So you could avoid paying taxes if all you bought was warehouses worth of toilet paper and shampoo, but otherwise you're going to be paying into the government if want internet, want to drive places, have a cellphone, etc.

And rich people will pay more because

1) They like more expensive things
2) they have more disposable income to buy more things quantitatively.

Exactly.

Which doesn't mean that exemptions for basic items is a bad thing.

 

[g5000]

My only issue with the Fair Tax is the "prebate" thing.

It seems silly to charge a higher rate of a tax only to have to incur the cost if giving every single person in the country a check every month

We already have high tax rates and massive borrowing to cover the $1.4 trillion of tax expenditures each year.

So your objection is demonstrating an ignorance of a much worse situation which already exists.

 

[g5000]

But now your plan puts it right in front of people. The government becomes your sugar daddy explicitly.

I think you're not completely off-base. The idea of the government controlling what is an acceptable amount of money for a "minimal" or "basic" standard of living turns my stomach. And the idea of the government sending me a check every month like a permission slip to buy food does as well.

Relative to what we have going on now though? Some distorted amalgam of convoluted and complicated laws whereby the government will preemptively take some amount of your money and hold onto it for you? That's worse. So from a relative standpoint, it's a reluctant improvement.

From there, the idea of taxing consumption rather than income... i love it. Rather than government directly stealing your labor from you, you're in more control of just how much tax you pay in relation to just how much you want to enjoy the fruits of your labor.

I agree as well, but I don't have G5000's deathwish on any exemptions for certain low cost nessasary items.

The corruption of exemptions would not stop at "low cost necessary items". Just look at the $1.4 trillion of exemptions, deductions, and credits there are now!

What you have always failed to comprehend is that every exemption must be offset either by higher tax rates or by borrowing. Exemptions are therefore theft. Wealth redistribution.

So...ZERO exemptions. That is the greater good.

No, they are not "theft". They may not be fair to you, but "theft" implies it's the government's money in the first place.

Once again you show you are an OCD idiot.

Yes, they are theft because they drive up tax rates on EVERYONE. We all pay higher taxes out of our own pockets to offset those tax expenditures. That makes them theft.

Tax expenditures are a massive wealth transfer scheme.

You just can't accept the simple fact that we all pay higher taxes so some people can pay less. So you lie to yourself.

You are a THEFT enabler.

This is Econ 101.

 

[g5000]

As soon as you open the door to exemptions, you have opened the door to wide spread corruption. Our current tax structure has been thoroughly corrupted by carve-outs for special interests. We need to slam that door and nail it shut. ZERO exemptions.

Otherwise, you will have politicians being bribed with large wads of campaign cash to exempt milk, coal, yachts, rubber duckies, popsicles with plastic sticks (but not wooden ones), Trump office supplies, and so on and so on and so on.

As soon as you allow exemptions, you have to increase the Fair Tax to offset those exemptions. Everyone suffers for it. Exemptions are theft.

I think making everyone dependent on a government check every month is far worse, and far worse than the current situation.

Everyone is already dependent on the government. They are dependent on the government for their child tax credit, their mortgage insurance deduction, their employer sponsored health insurance tax exemption, and so on and so on and so on.

They are dependent to the tune of $1.4 trillion of gifts every year!

But now your plan puts it right in front of people. The government becomes your sugar daddy explicitly.

That's the definition of transparency!

A great many of the people on this forum have demonstrated they are incredibly ignorant of just how dependent on the government they are. Including yourself!

And things were going so nice until you had to go to your smug fuckhole mode.

It's transparent in a bad way. But as you do with anything Trump, you get fixated and go asshole.

Fuck you.

Thank you for proving my point about how dependent you are on the government. You want every taxpayer to pay higher tax rates so you can have your deductions. You want the government to borrow and borrow and borrow to offset your deductions.

You are a leech.