The Truth about Mormons

[Skeptik]

how can you become a god when jesus said God is your father: And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

You just answered your own question. God is your father. What child doesn't want to grow up to be like his father?

Problem is you want to jump the Creator-creation gap which totally diminishes God's total "I AM" position.

Mormons like so many religions can't accept that God is not them nor are they able to become Him. Never the less like most religions, it's humanistic origins feed into the comfort zone and safety of fallible humanity by offering godhood after death.....I.E. a type of immortality that is so off-base.

Jesus said He has prepared a place for all believers, but never did He say that "You too, can become just like Me". Try and find that in both the old and new testament?

He is the Shepherd and we are the sheep. That is if we are His, and that involves salvation, and Jesus laid that out pretty clearly. "You must be born from above Nicodemus".

If we are simply sheep, how can we be the children of god also? Is god a sheep?

Also Mormons have such difficulty with just believing without the input of feelings, emotions, dreams, burning bosom experiences to re-inforce their belief system. Instead the God says that faith comes from believing on His Word(Holy Scripture), which does not involve the eyes, dreams, smell.......etc...

How else can you possibly know? You can't prove god by reading the Bible, nor by science, nor by any other means than personal revelation. When Jesus asks Simon who he (Jesus) is, and Simon replies that Jesus is the Christ, son of God, Jesus says, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven." (Matthew 16:17). That raises some interesting questions. How, for example can one believe that Jesus is the Christ unless it is revealed to him by the Father? Further, how is the father the same as Jesus (the trinity)?

It is the Word of God that transforms.......whether it was Jesus in person speaking or the scriptures working with the Holy Spirit that Jesus sent in His stead.

And how is one to prove whether the Bible is the word of god? It is, after all, just a collection of ancient writings.
*******

Mormons don't realize that the enemy, Satan, is alive and well and keeps this world in perpetual detours from finding salvation, as he/Satan works on the ego, and Adamic/lost souls hopelessness with tantalizing little and big carrots to lead folks away from the Gospel.

There is absolutely know way to be sure that a vision or dream or urging is of God without going to the scriptures and seeing if it is in agreement.

Satan does not project himself as evil, but as a beautiful light and way for all. He is the gread deceiver, and he has authored most of the religions of the world.

Actually, Mormons believe exactly that, except that they would be more likely to rely on personal inspiration. Scripture, after all, can be difficult to interpret, and can be contradictory.

 

[froggy]

You just answered your own question. God is your father. What child doesn't want to grow up to be like his father?

Problem is you want to jump the Creator-creation gap which totally diminishes God's total "I AM" position.

Mormons like so many religions can't accept that God is not them nor are they able to become Him. Never the less like most religions, it's humanistic origins feed into the comfort zone and safety of fallible humanity by offering godhood after death.....I.E. a type of immortality that is so off-base.

Jesus said He has prepared a place for all believers, but never did He say that "You too, can become just like Me". Try and find that in both the old and new testament?

He is the Shepherd and we are the sheep. That is if we are His, and that involves salvation, and Jesus laid that out pretty clearly. "You must be born from above Nicodemus".

If we are simply sheep, how can we be the children of god also? Is god a sheep?



How else can you possibly know? You can't prove god by reading the Bible, nor by science, nor by any other means than personal revelation. When Jesus asks Simon who he (Jesus) is, and Simon replies that Jesus is the Christ, son of God, Jesus says, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven." (Matthew 16:17). That raises some interesting questions. How, for example can one believe that Jesus is the Christ unless it is revealed to him by the Father? Further, how is the father the same as Jesus (the trinity)?

It is the Word of God that transforms.......whether it was Jesus in person speaking or the scriptures working with the Holy Spirit that Jesus sent in His stead.

And how is one to prove whether the Bible is the word of god? It is, after all, just a collection of ancient writings.
*******

Mormons don't realize that the enemy, Satan, is alive and well and keeps this world in perpetual detours from finding salvation, as he/Satan works on the ego, and Adamic/lost souls hopelessness with tantalizing little and big carrots to lead folks away from the Gospel.

There is absolutely know way to be sure that a vision or dream or urging is of God without going to the scriptures and seeing if it is in agreement.

Satan does not project himself as evil, but as a beautiful light and way for all. He is the gread deceiver, and he has authored most of the religions of the world.

Actually, Mormons believe exactly that, except that they would be more likely to rely on personal inspiration. Scripture, after all, can be difficult to interpret, and can be contradictory.

God said there is one god we will never be gods. John 17:3 Jesus addresses his Father, saying, "And this is eternal life, that they know you—the only true God."

 

[froggy]

Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him." Deuteronomy 4:35
See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me" Deuteronomy 32:39
"Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!" Deuteronomy 6:4
"You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You" 2 Samuel 7:22
"O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You" 1 Chronicles 17:20
I am Yahweh, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." Isaiah 45:5
"Surely, God is with you, and there is none else, No other God." Isaiah 45:14
"I am Yahweh, and there is none else." Isaiah 45:18
"Is it not I, Yahweh? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me." Isaiah 45:21
"I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me" Isaiah 46:9
"And Yahweh will be king over all the earth; in that day Yahweh will be the only one [echad], and His name the only one[echad]." Zechariah 14:9

 

[Skeptik]

Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him." Deuteronomy 4:35
See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me" Deuteronomy 32:39
"Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!" Deuteronomy 6:4
"You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You" 2 Samuel 7:22
"O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You" 1 Chronicles 17:20
I am Yahweh, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." Isaiah 45:5
"Surely, God is with you, and there is none else, No other God." Isaiah 45:14
"I am Yahweh, and there is none else." Isaiah 45:18
"Is it not I, Yahweh? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me." Isaiah 45:21
"I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me" Isaiah 46:9
"And Yahweh will be king over all the earth; in that day Yahweh will be the only one [echad], and His name the only one[echad]." Zechariah 14:9

We have only one god, one father in heaven. By the same token, we have only one father on earth as well. What's the difference?

 

[HUGGY]

Ha...Ha...

Here is a "Truth" about the More Mans.. Desperate! For over two weeks this thread was hovering at 102-103 thousand views.. Then as miraculously as the seagulls over The Great Salt Lake with "The List" threatening to bump this stupid thread off the most viewed list...3000 views just popped up out of nowhere in less than 6 hours. Truth Speaker is trying too hard. Couldn't do it with replies so now it's down to the "hard work" of looking at his thread every 10 seconds... WOW! Give it up sport! I buried you fair and square.

You should list your little reprieve as another Morman miracle. TRUTHspeaker..

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him." Deuteronomy 4:35
See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me" Deuteronomy 32:39
"Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!" Deuteronomy 6:4
"You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You" 2 Samuel 7:22
"O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You" 1 Chronicles 17:20
I am Yahweh, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." Isaiah 45:5
"Surely, God is with you, and there is none else, No other God." Isaiah 45:14
"I am Yahweh, and there is none else." Isaiah 45:18
"Is it not I, Yahweh? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me." Isaiah 45:21
"I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me" Isaiah 46:9
"And Yahweh will be king over all the earth; in that day Yahweh will be the only one [echad], and His name the only one[echad]." Zechariah 14:9

We have only one god, one father in heaven. By the same token, we have only one father on earth as well. What's the difference?

You don't want to understand, is that it, how the others think? They believe in the one God, creator of ALL ALL ALL ALL.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Please don't ever equate faith in Jesus with faith in Joseph Smith. Shudder.

Faith in any thing is proven by the same method. The power of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Truthspeaker]

isn't it true that the mormons consider Joseph Smith to be God.

The answer to this question is a firm NO.

 

[froggy]

Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him." Deuteronomy 4:35
See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me" Deuteronomy 32:39
"Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!" Deuteronomy 6:4
"You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You" 2 Samuel 7:22
"O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You" 1 Chronicles 17:20
I am Yahweh, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." Isaiah 45:5
"Surely, God is with you, and there is none else, No other God." Isaiah 45:14
"I am Yahweh, and there is none else." Isaiah 45:18
"Is it not I, Yahweh? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me." Isaiah 45:21
"I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me" Isaiah 46:9
"And Yahweh will be king over all the earth; in that day Yahweh will be the only one [echad], and His name the only one[echad]." Zechariah 14:9

We have only one god, one father in heaven. By the same token, we have only one father on earth as well. What's the difference?

we will never be gods.

 

[Truthspeaker]

isn't it true that the mormons consider Joseph Smith to be God.

I would think that he/Smith is figured to be a "god" of the highest order in their religion.

Why? Because all Mormons can become "gods" if they live a good obedient life according to their church doctrines.

Their prophets said that they can also be gods of their own planets like our earth.

It is indeed amazing how so many have embraced Mormonism, but I think it has a lot to do with most LDS members not knowing the full extent of how strange, and outlandish their churchs' core beliefs are in respect to the nature of Christ/God/salvation/hell/Holy Spirit.

Truth is often strange the first time you hear it. But things cease to be strange when they become known for a while. Try telling someone from the 5th century about cell phones, or walking on the moon, or the internet.

But Joseph is probably not a god yet. since it takes more than a couple hundred years to gain all knowledge.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Please don't ever equate faith in Jesus with faith in Joseph Smith. Shudder.

Faith in any thing is proven by the same method. The power of the Holy Ghost.

Minority opinion on that. Also you are in the minority of Joseph as a God. Easily found on lds.org.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I would think that he/Smith is figured to be a "god" of the highest order in their religion.

Why? Because all Mormons can become "gods" if they live a good obedient life according to their church doctrines.

Their prophets said that they can also be gods of their own planets like our earth.

It is indeed amazing how so many have embraced Mormonism, but I think it has a lot to do with most LDS members not knowing the full extent of how strange, and outlandish their churchs' core beliefs are in respect to the nature of Christ/God/salvation/hell/Holy Spirit.

That's a gross distortion of Mormon theology.

First, Smith is not considered to be a god, any more than any of the prophets of the Old Testament are considered to be gods by the Jewish or Catholic community.

Second, the doctrine that man is destined for godhood doesn't mean in this life, or very soon into the next. Do you believe in eternal life? Where do you see yourself in ten million more years? A hundred? If life is eternal, then it's a valid question, isn't it?

how can you become a god when jesus said God is your father: And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

You can become a god if God teaches you to be like him and he says so.

 

[Truthspeaker]

That's a gross distortion of Mormon theology.

First, Smith is not considered to be a god, any more than any of the prophets of the Old Testament are considered to be gods by the Jewish or Catholic community.

Second, the doctrine that man is destined for godhood doesn't mean in this life, or very soon into the next. Do you believe in eternal life? Where do you see yourself in ten million more years? A hundred? If life is eternal, then it's a valid question, isn't it?

how can you become a god when jesus said God is your father: And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

Excellent point Froggy!

Also they(Mormons) know very well that this godhood reference from me is not about earthly/human life but is after their death.

They are splitting hairs and trying to find fault in my statement.

I did not in my post say that they become gods in this present life.
******
Never the less, as you said Froggy, Jesus does say that there is one God, and not a multitude of them as the Mormon doctrine teaches.

Also, Jesus says that "No one can come to the Father(God) except through/by Me."

The Mormon Jesus is a contorted strange being.

Another striking and apostate teaching from the Mormons is that Satan/Lucifer and Jesus were once brothers, with the same Papa. Jesus got the nod from Papa God to go down to earth and be the savior of mankind, and his brother Satan/Lucifer jealously rebelled because of that.

Jesus refers to Lucifer as a fallen angel who rebelled against his Creator, God. As a result he/Satan along with a third of the angels that joined ranks with Lucifer were also cast down/out of heaven to earth. Today, they can be referred-to as demons, and Satan/Lucifer the old Serpent from the Garden is their Command and Chief.

God apparently gave "free-will" both to man and to the heavenly host of angelic beings that minister to Him in the heavenlies.
*****
Anyway, Froggy, your are straight-on with your inquirey about Jesus explaining how to pray, and "Whom" to pray too.

You actually explained it acurately, even if condescendingly. But those are our beliefs and we have our reasons for believing it.

 

[froggy]

how can you become a god when jesus said God is your father: And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

Excellent point Froggy!

Also they(Mormons) know very well that this godhood reference from me is not about earthly/human life but is after their death.

They are splitting hairs and trying to find fault in my statement.

I did not in my post say that they become gods in this present life.
******
Never the less, as you said Froggy, Jesus does say that there is one God, and not a multitude of them as the Mormon doctrine teaches.

Also, Jesus says that "No one can come to the Father(God) except through/by Me."

The Mormon Jesus is a contorted strange being.

Another striking and apostate teaching from the Mormons is that Satan/Lucifer and Jesus were once brothers, with the same Papa. Jesus got the nod from Papa God to go down to earth and be the savior of mankind, and his brother Satan/Lucifer jealously rebelled because of that.

Jesus refers to Lucifer as a fallen angel who rebelled against his Creator, God. As a result he/Satan along with a third of the angels that joined ranks with Lucifer were also cast down/out of heaven to earth. Today, they can be referred-to as demons, and Satan/Lucifer the old Serpent from the Garden is their Command and Chief.

God apparently gave "free-will" both to man and to the heavenly host of angelic beings that minister to Him in the heavenlies.
*****
Anyway, Froggy, your are straight-on with your inquirey about Jesus explaining how to pray, and "Whom" to pray too.

You actually explained it acurately, even if condescendingly. But those are our beliefs and we have our reasons for believing it.

because joe told you to believe that way.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Ha...Ha...

Here is a "Truth" about the More Mans.. Desperate! For over two weeks this thread was hovering at 102-103 thousand views.. Then as miraculously as the seagulls over The Great Salt Lake with "The List" threatening to bump this stupid thread off the most viewed list...3000 views just popped up out of nowhere in less than 6 hours. Truth Speaker is trying too hard. Couldn't do it with replies so now it's down to the "hard work" of looking at his thread every 10 seconds... WOW! Give it up sport! I buried you fair and square.

You should list your little reprieve as another Morman miracle. TRUTHspeaker..

I'll say this much Hugster about that: I don't even know where to look for the "most viewed threads". I really don't care. I certainly haven't spent much time on here so it couldn't be me viewing my own thread that much without saying something. it's a new year and i popped in to say happy new year and then people just started chiming in again.
Is your thread still going? if so that's fantastic for you

But I care as much about that as I do for your opinions.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Please don't ever equate faith in Jesus with faith in Joseph Smith. Shudder.

Faith in any thing is proven by the same method. The power of the Holy Ghost.

Minority opinion on that. Also you are in the minority of Joseph as a God. Easily found on lds.org.

It is trivial to wonder what Joseph's status is at this time. I didn't say he was a god yet. He probably is not yet, but who knows. it has nothing to do with my salvation.

 

[Skeptik]

You don't want to understand, is that it, how the others think? They believe in the one God, creator of ALL ALL ALL ALL.

The scriptures that say that one god is the creator of ALL ALL ALL were written at a time when ALL ALL ALL meant the lands around the Mediterranean Sea. The idea of endless stars and planets was not known and understood at the time. People didn't even realize that the Earth was round and that there were two unknown continents on the other side, let alone that there were countless other worlds.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Excellent point Froggy!

Also they(Mormons) know very well that this godhood reference from me is not about earthly/human life but is after their death.

They are splitting hairs and trying to find fault in my statement.

I did not in my post say that they become gods in this present life.
******
Never the less, as you said Froggy, Jesus does say that there is one God, and not a multitude of them as the Mormon doctrine teaches.

Also, Jesus says that "No one can come to the Father(God) except through/by Me."

The Mormon Jesus is a contorted strange being.

Another striking and apostate teaching from the Mormons is that Satan/Lucifer and Jesus were once brothers, with the same Papa. Jesus got the nod from Papa God to go down to earth and be the savior of mankind, and his brother Satan/Lucifer jealously rebelled because of that.

Jesus refers to Lucifer as a fallen angel who rebelled against his Creator, God. As a result he/Satan along with a third of the angels that joined ranks with Lucifer were also cast down/out of heaven to earth. Today, they can be referred-to as demons, and Satan/Lucifer the old Serpent from the Garden is their Command and Chief.

God apparently gave "free-will" both to man and to the heavenly host of angelic beings that minister to Him in the heavenlies.
*****
Anyway, Froggy, your are straight-on with your inquirey about Jesus explaining how to pray, and "Whom" to pray too.

You actually explained it acurately, even if condescendingly. But those are our beliefs and we have our reasons for believing it.

because joe told you to believe that way.

NOT SO MUCH

 

[HUGGY]

Ha...Ha...

Here is a "Truth" about the More Mans.. Desperate! For over two weeks this thread was hovering at 102-103 thousand views.. Then as miraculously as the seagulls over The Great Salt Lake with "The List" threatening to bump this stupid thread off the most viewed list...3000 views just popped up out of nowhere in less than 6 hours. Truth Speaker is trying too hard. Couldn't do it with replies so now it's down to the "hard work" of looking at his thread every 10 seconds... WOW! Give it up sport! I buried you fair and square.

You should list your little reprieve as another Morman miracle. TRUTHspeaker..

I'll say this much Hugster about that: I don't even know where to look for the "most viewed threads". I really don't care. I certainly haven't spent much time on here so it couldn't be me viewing my own thread that much without saying something. it's a new year and i popped in to say happy new year and then people just started chiming in again.
Is your thread still going? if so that's fantastic for you

But I care as much about that as I do for your opinions.

Truthspeaker? Maybe not so much...

 

[Eightball]

Faith in any thing is proven by the same method. The power of the Holy Ghost.

Minority opinion on that. Also you are in the minority of Joseph as a God. Easily found on lds.org.

It is trivial to wonder what Joseph's status is at this time. I didn't say he was a god yet. He probably is not yet, but who knows. it has nothing to do with my salvation.

So your emphatic "No he isn't!" changed to a "Maybe, in time, but probably not yet?"?

If Joe can't cut it as a god of another planet then what Mormon can make it? He's your founder/prophet................If you have your quibbles whether J. Smith will become a god, then you don't have much to stand on in your belief system.
********
Also, "We have our reasons for believing....." is about as deflective or vague as one can be in response.
*****
Biblical believing Christians know exactly why they believe and can articulate it clearly, and it isn't vague.
******
For 2,000 years the words withing the bible have transforming lives, bringing peace, strength, and major change from pride to humility to souls, but it isn't enough for the Mormon.

The Mormon wants to jump the Creator/created canyon and ururpt the "One God" Yahweh who said through His Son that there will and isn't any other Gods before me.

Intelligent design didn't come from a fallible human being who became a god.

Also the reference that Mormons love to quote from Jesus about the reminder to the Jews that they were referred to as gods, is totally used with a complete lack of scriptural/cultural understanding of the use of the word, "gods" in reference to the Jews. Any good bible theologian knows that.

It is a poor attempt to hold-together their blasphemous doctrine of ascending to godhood through works or any means.

The clay can never become the Potter. The Potter knows whats best for the clay and will do with it as He pleases as He is without sin, is Holy, and omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent.

Mormons want to become potters, or God. This is blasphemous teaching, would be considered apostatesy in the Christian church of the Apostles day as well as now.