Walter Williams: Why the Founders Did Not Want a Democracy

[progressive hunter]

for those that still think we are a democracy,, williams goes through in detail why we are not one,,

 

[Unkotare]

Federalist #10

 

[gipper]

The least of our problems, since we live in a quasi Fascist oligarchy.

 

[struth]

The least of our problems, since we live in a quasi Fascist oligarchy.

true, but hopefully with the mid-terms coming up we can start undoing the mistakes of 2020 and get back to normal

 

[Curried Goats]

for those that still think we are a democracy,, williams goes through in detail why we are not one,,

This argument is so stupid. We are not a direct democracy, we are a representative democracy and also a Republic. They describe different aspects of our government. A "Republic" means we are a government of the public, or the people. A representative democracy means we vote for representatives who represent the public in government. Did none of you pay attention in civics?

 

[Unkotare]

We are a republic.


That is all.

 

[Curried Goats]

We are a republic.


That is all.

Why are you clowns so afraid of the word democracy? It's really weird. I honestly don't get it. Is it because it triggers you all into thinking of the Democratic party? Please, please tell me its that simple.

 

[Unkotare]

...
Why are you clowns so afraid of the word democracy?...

Who is?

 

[martybegan]

Why are you clowns so afraid of the word democracy? It's really weird. I honestly don't get it. Is it because it triggers you all into thinking of the Democratic party? Please, please tell me its that simple.

Because it denotes mob rule without any constitutional protections.

 

[Curried Goats]

Who is?

The little bitches afraid of the word democracy.

 

[whitehall]

Nit pick the definition of "democracy" as it related to the Founding Fathers? It beats a discussion of current political issues I guess.

 

[Curried Goats]

Because it denotes mob rule without any constitutional protections.

The beginning of this Republic included legalized, institutional slavery. "Republic" doesn't mean benevolent and it doesn't mean it's immune to mob rule.

 

[martybegan]

The beginning of this Republic included legalized, institutional slavery. "Republic" doesn't mean benevolent and it doesn't mean it's immune to mob rule.

Democracy is mob rule, without the protections of a Constitution inherent in a Republic.

Federalism is an even greater protector.

 

[Rigby5]

We are a republic.


That is all.

Not quite.
For example, we are a constitutional republic, and that is important because it implies the principles of blind justice, codified ahead of time instead of spontaneous desires of the rulers.
We also are supposed to be a democratically elected, representative republic, and that is important because it implies participation by the population as a whole.

Contrast that with something like "Plato's Republic", which describes an oligarchy of the intellectual elite, which is far too easily corrupted.
If that is not clear, then consider an example, like Roe Vs Wade.
An intellectual elite could be all male, and rule against abortion, while a government more representative of the people, would be much more likely to rule in favor of abortion rights.
The majority may not be the smartest, but does have an emotional component that should have some influence.

 

[Unkotare]

The little bitches afraid of the word democracy.

Who?

 

[Rigby5]

Why are you clowns so afraid of the word democracy? It's really weird. I honestly don't get it. Is it because it triggers you all into thinking of the Democratic party? Please, please tell me its that simple.

Because the word "democracy" means everyone must vote on every issue, as they did in Athens about 2500 years ago.
And it not only would not work scaled up to the US population, but would reduce government to whatever the propagandists can whip up the angry mob over.
Instead we need to try to get the best deciding, and limit mobocracy, if possible.

 

[BlindBoo]

Of course back then most of the population was illiterate farm workers, and women, who couldn't vote anyway. In their Republic the power was concentrated in the gentry class. Throughout time the process of selecting our representatives has become more democratic but it is still controlled by daddy megabucks.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Why are you clowns so afraid of the word democracy? It's really weird. I honestly don't get it. Is it because it triggers you all into thinking of the Democratic party? Please, please tell me its that simple.

I think that what you don't get is the difference between 'democracy' and 'a democracy'

If it's of any consolation, you're not the only one. Far from it...

 

[Rigby5]

The beginning of this Republic included legalized, institutional slavery. "Republic" doesn't mean benevolent and it doesn't mean it's immune to mob rule.

Actually it sort of does.
The problems of the US, like slavery, did not come from the Republic, but from the monarchy that created the states.
The problem the republic faced was because the origin of the states preceded the Republic, so could not take the issues like slavery head on, right away.

There are lots of known methods to increase benevolence and decrease mobocracy, like a democratically elected, representative, constitutional, republic.

The current problem is federal over reach.
So I think we need an additional layer of protection.
What I would suggest is that now that we have a 14th amendment protecting individual rights, we need another Bill of Rights, but aimed at curtailing federal violation of individual rights.
The existing Bill of Rights was much too oriented to only protecting state jurisdiction, and did almost nothing for individual rights.
For example, there should be no federal laws about drugs, medicine, sentence mandates, etc.

 

[Curried Goats]

Because the word "democracy" means everyone must vote on every issue, as they did in Athens about 2500 years ago.
And it not only would not work scaled up to the US population, but would reduce government to whatever the propagandists can whip up the angry mob over.
Instead we need to try to get the best deciding, and limit mobocracy, if possible.

No it doesn't. What you describe is a direct democracy and as you said above we are a representative democracy. There is no need to fear the word.