Who is more intolerant of political opponents the "left" or "the right"

[emilynghiem]

The leftwing are not taught or empowered to enforce natural laws and rights directly by following and exercising them,
so they have defined their rights and agenda based on political force by party.

Any one able to make sense of the mass of assumptions and contradictions in that post?

Anyone with a brain and an ounce of honesty can make sense of her post.

Your post demonstrates a difference between right wing posts and others.
cnm asked if anyone could make sense the content in the post of EMILYNGHIEM and you attacked cnm by implying that he was intellectually deficient. Attacking the person rather than what he says is characteristic of the Right.

Dear Eloy There are people on both left and right who don't understand or believe that something that is an inherent right in their system or mindset is a political belief to someone else that can't be forced on them through govt because it is biased and conflicts with their own rights and beliefs

I am able to find some self-aware people on both sides who can recognize political beliefs are relative and not absolute rights. But some cannot see this by nature of their beliefs, which they cannot always help.

There is a need for mutual understanding on both sides that some people cannot help their beliefs, including the belief that it must be rammed through govt which violates my belief that it must not be.

So that's why and where we are stuck.
Any suggestions?
Or do we keep bullying back and forth exhausting our resources that could have gone into direct solutions by now?

 

[emilynghiem]

The leftwing are not taught or empowered to enforce natural laws and rights directly by following and exercising them,
so they have defined their rights and agenda based on political force by party.

Any one able to make sense of the mass of assumptions and contradictions in that post?

Anyone with a brain and an ounce of honesty can make sense of her post.

Your post demonstrates a difference between right wing posts and others.
cnm asked if anyone could make sense the content in the post of EMILYNGHIEM and you attacked cnm by implying that he was intellectually deficient. Attacking the person rather than what he says is characteristic of the Right.

Have you not heard any democrats speak on this board? "Intellectually deficient" doesnt come close to the insults hurled our direction, and for the record, cnm was implying the exact same thing about emily, so you can just settle down with your obvious bias.

You proved once again what I wrote is true.

Dear Eloy did it ever occur to you that people's mindsets cannot always be helped where they naturally see things as rights, cannot be forced to change by insulting these beliefs, and will honestly believe it must be an "issue of ignorance or lack of education" if other people don't get it or see it that way, which is also caused by similar beliefs on the other side! Both do not get why the other side doesn't get them either, and thinks it must be ignorance or it makes no sense. Such is the nature of political beliefs so engrained in people's mindsets that these are naturally occurring rights and can't be argued or taken away without causing a violation! So anyone who believes or sees otherwise, isn't that also due to similar mindsets we can't help or change either because that's who we are and what we believe? Should we be in the business of judging punishing or depriving rights from people through govt based on political beliefs/rights that we can't help seeing in opposite ways? Is that fair?

I was saying the RIGHTWING do better than the Leftwing at taking corrections !

Sorry 2aguy I can see how that was read wrong.

And BTW the Muslims who are law-abiding and consistent with Christianity tend to be in line with Conservatives on many issues too. But in this passage I meant the Christians and Constituitionalists on the right accept corrections better because of respect for Constituitionalist principles.

Still not explaining your statement about discriminating against muslims.....

Look at examples of conservatives in TN trying to block Mosques which violates religious freedom. 2aguy

When Herman Caine made a statement against Muslims, a group came to speak with him, he apologized and accepted the correction. A lot of Muslims align with conservatives and Republicans so it wasn't fair to misportay or misstate otherwise

In general you can't punish innocent Muslims for the crimes and warfare of others, similar to threats to regulate guns for all citizens instead of just isolating criminals with unlawful intent.

So blanket statements that blame or associate ALL Muslims as enabling terrorism is where SOME not all conservatives go too far.

I've even stopped my own boyfriend from this notion of putting Walid Shoebats interpretation of Islam before how Mustafa a Carroll teaches it who has Christian family and works with Christians and other religious leaders without issue.

Lots of conservative friends I know have misperceptions that Islam is a cult and I only heard recently from one conservative talk show host who said the same thing I was saying to do:
Distinguish between
* Muslims
* Islamists
* jihadists
So yes I do give credit to conservatives who are better at correcting these problems. I've had to explain to many Christians Conservative friends that Islam practiced correctly includes Christianity so it's compatible, and only when people reject either Christianity and/or constitutional/natural laws then does the religious abuse go unchecked.

Herman Caine, the TN far right conservatives trying to block Mosques, and talk show hosts like my own boyfriend who would only air Walid Shoebat and exclude Mustafaa Carroll are examples of conservatives discriminating on the Muslim issues although they are better at correcting when they go too far.

You are mistaken about islam......Christians are not equal under islam...they are a protected class...but have dhimmi status.....and isolated incidents mean nothing ....... you are implying systemic discrimination from conservatives and that just isn't happening...anywhere.....

A protected class under Islam?

Sure thing. No problem. Let's make blacks in the US a protected class, according to Islamic standards.

First, segregate them into isolated areas.... you know... for their protection.

Then let's levy on them a special "black tax" that unless they pay the black tax, then we kill them.

And how much is this tax? Well it's between $42 to $650. That sounds rather reasonable.... until you remember, we're talking about the middle east.

The average wage in the middle east is $200 a month. Iraq-$214, Iran-$215, Jordan-$268.

So we're talking between 1 week, and 3 months worth of wages.

So the tax should be about $2,000 to $10,000 here in the US.

Now keep in mind, this isn't a 'replacement' tax. This is just an additional tax. They still have to pay all the same taxes that middle east people do. This is just an additional burden on top of normal taxes.

So let's do that here. Let's make our minorities a "protected" class of people.

Now I get it, that most... not all, but most Islamic based countries are gradually moving away from this view. Egypt for example started military action against IS, because Christians from Egypt were killed by IS. That would have never happened 50 or 100 years ago, or any time in the distant past.

But please.... spare me this "protected class" BS. Islamic 'protected class' was at best a more lethal version of Mafia protection money.

You don't have to tell me...I understand what you are saying, I didn't want to take the time to go into what Islam really does to dhimmi........Emily doesn't understand the reality of Islam, the left and other nutters out there......

I enjoy your posts.....

HI 2aguy Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression again. I am well aware of the sick genocide waged by jihadist terrorists in both Europe and Africa enabled by Islamist regimes. But I make a distinction between Jihadists, Islamists, and Muslims so it's more clear which ones I am referring to. I posted that on USMB, about these 3 groups and the differences between them. And guess what, I heard a host on Hannitys show sat the Same Thing: to distinguish between Muslims, Islamists, and Jihadists .

So I'm not alone in making these distinctions
North does it mean ignoring or downplaying the rape torture and other gross terrorist and genocidal attacks by Jihadists that the liberal media is trying to depublicize as much as possible, thinking that will de escalate instead of incite more such attacks if they are politically exploited to terrorize the public through media coverage.

 

[emilynghiem]

The trouble starts with what is classified as essential. Contraception for example. Most people can already access free or very cheap contraception, yet others find themselves paying for the contraceptive pill for other people. Later they will find themselves paying for their STDs and their infertility.

Wow,you really hate women dont you ?
You have a sick selective attitude towards care. Most of us have two arms and legs so why should we subsidise the limbless ? - says Tilly.

Errr, no I really don't. There is no trouble getting hold of condoms in America if you really can't quit stuffing your face with pizza and coke and prioritise how you use your resources.. Why should everyone else be forced to pay for these people to have the contraceptive pill that doesn't even protect them from STDs, so that everyone else then find themselves funding the treatment for those too? What's so difficult about takin personal responsibility for your own sex life???

I dont live in America. I live in the Uk where teenage girls with abusive parents need all the support that they can be given.

I live in America where we have teenage girls with abusive parents that need support also, many of them have ended up on drugs due to living on the streets.
At any given time I might have 2 or 3 of them living in my house with me, my wife and my own daughter. I provide them counseling, treatment, medical care and compassion (nothing indecent)
I have one that I am paying for her college right now a she fights to get back on her feet.
I do not mind doing this or spending the money that is required to get them well both physically and psychologically.
And yet, I fight to keep from paying taxes to do this same thing. I think it should be up to citizens to take care of their own, it is the decent thing to do. It is not decent for me to decide that you can just afford to pay more and more to do this. There comes a point where forced charity can hurt those being forced to give.
I have no idea why my wife continues to let me and my daughter take on this roll in the community, last year the cost to me out of pocket was enough for me to have purchased a new BMW, instead I have 4 girls with a fresh start on life, that know there is someone that honestly cares about them,, and,, an old truck to drive.
And I also think that if the government stepped back a bit, people would feel more compelled to step up and help. I refuse to believe that people are not generally good hearted creatures that will take care of others to the extent that they are financially able.
I would love to be able to afford a huge house with lots of rooms in it where I could help more at once, but I cant.
For those interested in looking in to doing something like this (and its needed) you can talk to doctors like I did and find ones that have compassion and would be willing to offer their services at a greatly reduced cost, you can also find psychologists that are willing to do the same. I have one that comes to the house twice a week to talk with the girls in their own private rooms.
If you cant afford to do it all by yourself, see if you can find friends that are as compassionate that would be willing to chip in for the care.
I think there is a great benefit to the girls when the help comes in a personal way instead of through some faceless government program that wont remember them at holidays, christmas or their birthdays.
One thing that must be mentioned before anyone considers bringing kids like this into your home. Hide anything of great value, during the first month it is very possible that the thought of stealing from you and getting high one more time is going to be greater than the thoughts of staying clean and actually creating a real life.

It should not depend on the charitable kindness of strangers to help those in need. People, through their government policies, can do better than that.

Dear Eloy and aren't govt programs paid for by the labor and taxes of strangers?
Aren't the choices to pay through a bureaucratic system of govt where workers only do the minimum to keep their jobs and contracts versus charities that don't get funding renewed unless they are effective and earn the support of donors.

When we find the right help of a group doing a more effective job, normally we can shift our donation and support there. But to change how govt programs work, such as changing the VA or reforming problems with ACA takes years and years of fighting while resources are wasted and people are stuck without help.

There's nothing wrong with agreeing on federal funds going into medical R&D on sustainable health care, but a huge problem with terms of managing and delegating resources which mixes public and private resources. Instead of trying to legislate one huge global policy at the top to "micromanage" individual states, why not delegate the funds back to states proportionally to work out their own plans

Then each state can also delegate resources such as through parties to divide among both public and private sector programs proven to work. Parties won't get funding if their members join other parties that represent working programs. So the power goes back to taxpayers to choose where to pay thir taxes in order to vote for the social and health programs they believe in funding.

Eloy you can still choose to fund govt run programs by funding a party that supports that. But why not give people of all parties the same freedom of choice ? Wouldn't the best programs get funding, and if the govt programs can only serve so many people then those taxpayers paying in have direct vote in the terms of coverage. So if people are wasting resources the taxpayers funding that system have a say in how to change the terms so the existing funds will provide the desired coverage. It would compel groups to find real solutions not fake ones inflated by huge bureaucracy where you can't tell where the backlog is coming from, like what's wrong with the VA that will take years to fix also.

 

[emilynghiem]

The right wingers here accuse the "liberals" to be intolerant of political opponents, but are they any better?

Both are equally intolerant--especially at their base.

Dear hazlnut
But is the intolerance random?
When I look at which people can or cannot discuss sensitive issues without negative remarks judging the other person "as a group",
the factors I see are either
FEAR of the other group
FORGIVENESS and ability not to let that affect emotionally how they see others.

Sure we can address fear or forgiveness and chose to change these for ourselves.

But is attacking or fighting to outvote or overrule the other "group" going to change the fear on the other side or make it worse.

What motivation do they have to "forgive" differences if we don't forgive them but judge them for their beliefs?

Because it is a personal choice and spiritual process to let go and let forgiveness in to transform fearful relations back into normal working ones, I don't see how it helps but deeply HURTS this process by continuing to politically bully and compete for dominance. I really see it makes things worse.

The people most effective in clarifying, changing or influencing others in these most sensitive areas of politics seem to be least fearful and most forgiving.

Since this can't be forced, how do we encourage more forgiveness of differences we can't always help and inclusion, instead of fear and rejection.

 

[Eloy]

I dont live in America. I live in the Uk where teenage girls with abusive parents need all the support that they can be given.

I live in America where we have teenage girls with abusive parents that need support also, many of them have ended up on drugs due to living on the streets.
At any given time I might have 2 or 3 of them living in my house with me, my wife and my own daughter. I provide them counseling, treatment, medical care and compassion (nothing indecent)
I have one that I am paying for her college right now a she fights to get back on her feet.
I do not mind doing this or spending the money that is required to get them well both physically and psychologically.
And yet, I fight to keep from paying taxes to do this same thing. I think it should be up to citizens to take care of their own, it is the decent thing to do. It is not decent for me to decide that you can just afford to pay more and more to do this. There comes a point where forced charity can hurt those being forced to give.
I have no idea why my wife continues to let me and my daughter take on this roll in the community, last year the cost to me out of pocket was enough for me to have purchased a new BMW, instead I have 4 girls with a fresh start on life, that know there is someone that honestly cares about them,, and,, an old truck to drive.
And I also think that if the government stepped back a bit, people would feel more compelled to step up and help. I refuse to believe that people are not generally good hearted creatures that will take care of others to the extent that they are financially able.
I would love to be able to afford a huge house with lots of rooms in it where I could help more at once, but I cant.
For those interested in looking in to doing something like this (and its needed) you can talk to doctors like I did and find ones that have compassion and would be willing to offer their services at a greatly reduced cost, you can also find psychologists that are willing to do the same. I have one that comes to the house twice a week to talk with the girls in their own private rooms.
If you cant afford to do it all by yourself, see if you can find friends that are as compassionate that would be willing to chip in for the care.
I think there is a great benefit to the girls when the help comes in a personal way instead of through some faceless government program that wont remember them at holidays, christmas or their birthdays.
One thing that must be mentioned before anyone considers bringing kids like this into your home. Hide anything of great value, during the first month it is very possible that the thought of stealing from you and getting high one more time is going to be greater than the thoughts of staying clean and actually creating a real life.

It should not depend on the charitable kindness of strangers to help those in need. People, through their government policies, can do better than that.

We are not going to agree on this.
Government is open to abuse and fraud, the dollars spent are not going to be as effective as they are through private charity efforts.
In many cases one of the biggest issues that people in need have is a feeling of self worth and respect, the government can not build this in a person, it also can not reach out and make the person know that someone that does not have to, really honestly cares about them, cares about their health and their future. when has the government sat up with someone that is dope sick and just held their hand, gave them a cool cloth for their forehead when their tempurature spiked? made sure they were covered with blankets when the chills hit, cleaned them up countless times per night because they were throwing up non-stop.
the government is really great at handing out money, but when it comes to letting someone know that they are really cared for, that someone has committed to being there for them through the worst time in their life, the government cant touch a private individual.My daughter and I have taken turns spending the time with these girls while they suffer through the withdrawal. I have been thrown up on more times than a mother with triplets.

Socialist and Social Democratic governments in Europe do have remedies for people with drug habits, run by good administrators and staffed by caring workers. The Americans are far behind because the corporations there control the dogma of individual entrepreneurship and free enterprise. Growing up with so much right wing propaganda on TV and reinforced by the jingoism of capitalism, it is no wonder that young people are thoroughly sick of a broken democracy which has caved-in to Business.

You can believe whatever it is that you wish, but Im telling you that government or even private treatment facilities can never compete with the help someone can get if they are lucky enough to find a private individual to help them out. ...

And I say help where needed for our people should not depend on luck.

 

[Eloy]

I live in America where we have teenage girls with abusive parents that need support also, many of them have ended up on drugs due to living on the streets.
At any given time I might have 2 or 3 of them living in my house with me, my wife and my own daughter. I provide them counseling, treatment, medical care and compassion (nothing indecent)
I have one that I am paying for her college right now a she fights to get back on her feet.
I do not mind doing this or spending the money that is required to get them well both physically and psychologically.
And yet, I fight to keep from paying taxes to do this same thing. I think it should be up to citizens to take care of their own, it is the decent thing to do. It is not decent for me to decide that you can just afford to pay more and more to do this. There comes a point where forced charity can hurt those being forced to give.
I have no idea why my wife continues to let me and my daughter take on this roll in the community, last year the cost to me out of pocket was enough for me to have purchased a new BMW, instead I have 4 girls with a fresh start on life, that know there is someone that honestly cares about them,, and,, an old truck to drive.
And I also think that if the government stepped back a bit, people would feel more compelled to step up and help. I refuse to believe that people are not generally good hearted creatures that will take care of others to the extent that they are financially able.
I would love to be able to afford a huge house with lots of rooms in it where I could help more at once, but I cant.
For those interested in looking in to doing something like this (and its needed) you can talk to doctors like I did and find ones that have compassion and would be willing to offer their services at a greatly reduced cost, you can also find psychologists that are willing to do the same. I have one that comes to the house twice a week to talk with the girls in their own private rooms.
If you cant afford to do it all by yourself, see if you can find friends that are as compassionate that would be willing to chip in for the care.
I think there is a great benefit to the girls when the help comes in a personal way instead of through some faceless government program that wont remember them at holidays, christmas or their birthdays.
One thing that must be mentioned before anyone considers bringing kids like this into your home. Hide anything of great value, during the first month it is very possible that the thought of stealing from you and getting high one more time is going to be greater than the thoughts of staying clean and actually creating a real life.

It should not depend on the charitable kindness of strangers to help those in need. People, through their government policies, can do better than that.

We are not going to agree on this.
Government is open to abuse and fraud, the dollars spent are not going to be as effective as they are through private charity efforts.
In many cases one of the biggest issues that people in need have is a feeling of self worth and respect, the government can not build this in a person, it also can not reach out and make the person know that someone that does not have to, really honestly cares about them, cares about their health and their future. when has the government sat up with someone that is dope sick and just held their hand, gave them a cool cloth for their forehead when their tempurature spiked? made sure they were covered with blankets when the chills hit, cleaned them up countless times per night because they were throwing up non-stop.
the government is really great at handing out money, but when it comes to letting someone know that they are really cared for, that someone has committed to being there for them through the worst time in their life, the government cant touch a private individual.My daughter and I have taken turns spending the time with these girls while they suffer through the withdrawal. I have been thrown up on more times than a mother with triplets.

Socialist and Social Democratic governments in Europe do have remedies for people with drug habits, run by good administrators and staffed by caring workers. The Americans are far behind because the corporations there control the dogma of individual entrepreneurship and free enterprise. Growing up with so much right wing propaganda on TV and reinforced by the jingoism of capitalism, it is no wonder that young people are thoroughly sick of a broken democracy which has caved-in to Business.

You can believe whatever it is that you wish, but Im telling you that government or even private treatment facilities can never compete with the help someone can get if they are lucky enough to find a private individual to help them out.
I say this after seeing these things first hand, what first hand experience do you have that lends credibility to your insight?
To be fair, before you respond with your qualifications to judge the success of these programs VS. real help from someone that really wants to help, wants to see the addicted person create a good life for themselves. I might not be the most qualified here to make the judgement either but I do work in the mental health industry with a focus on the mentally ill and chemically addicted segment of society.
I have studied the relapse rates of various programs to see what does and what does not work, Ive talked with those addicted, I have done research papers on the cycle of addiction based on age groups. etc...
Sometimes, an addict will get much more from a simple hug than they will get from hours of counseling. heroin addicts are human also.
private is much better than organized.

Dear Maryland Patriot and Eloy
In both secular and faith based therapy and recovery programs that work, the common factors are forgiveness and overcoming fears that cannot be forced but only work by free choice. The spiritual healing I've seen work is outside the realm of what govt can regulate or require, though govt based medical research could study this to prove its effectiveness in healing people of both physical and mental conditions, as well as criminal illness and healing relationships around the person as well.
Secular nondenominational programs such as Alternatives to Violence Project insist on remaining separate from govt or they just don't work, they only operate based on free will, the person's uncoerced choice to change internally which is extremely sensitive and cant be from external conditions , and cannot be affected in any way by govt requirements.

The spiritual healing is what is missing from secularized medicine and mental health treatment. Ironically it's the key to freeing up the corporate monopoly on drugs, and prison industries profiting off crime and addiction instead of liberating people and saving resources for sustainable universal care that could reach and cover entire populations with the taxes already wasted on failed prison and mental health systems.

We need to focus research on the most cost effective methods of diagnosis and treatment. Spiritual healing and related alternatives are the key, but these are discriminated against by secularized science and politics.

See www.spiritual-healing.us

Thank-you for your message, emilynghiem. I am, however, a humanist who does not believe in spiritual healing.

 

[Eloy]

The leftwing are not taught or empowered to enforce natural laws and rights directly by following and exercising them,
so they have defined their rights and agenda based on political force by party.

Any one able to make sense of the mass of assumptions and contradictions in that post?

Anyone with a brain and an ounce of honesty can make sense of her post.

Your post demonstrates a difference between right wing posts and others.
cnm asked if anyone could make sense the content in the post of EMILYNGHIEM and you attacked cnm by implying that he was intellectually deficient. Attacking the person rather than what he says is characteristic of the Right.

Dear Eloy There are people on both left and right who don't understand or believe that something that is an inherent right in their system or mindset is a political belief to someone else that can't be forced on them through govt because it is biased and conflicts with their own rights and beliefs

I am able to find some self-aware people on both sides who can recognize political beliefs are relative and not absolute rights. But some cannot see this by nature of their beliefs, which they cannot always help.

There is a need for mutual understanding on both sides that some people cannot help their beliefs, including the belief that it must be rammed through govt which violates my belief that it must not be.

So that's why and where we are stuck.
Any suggestions?
Or do we keep bullying back and forth exhausting our resources that could have gone into direct solutions by now?

Well, emilynghiem, I do believe that government has a responsibility to address the basic needs of all persons. After this, it is for people to live their own way, in freedom to pursue happiness as best they can.

 

[sealybobo]

The right wingers here accuse the "liberals" to be intolerant of political opponents, but are they any better?

I have officially joined the GOP. I have embraced their philosophy and I'm seeing their side of things.

Will this time be like bush Tom delay and hastert? I sure hope not.

We no longer want to encourage people to have lots of kids. We are already too overpopulated. So why give the masses public school? Public schools should be a thing of the past. If you have kids pay for their school.

 

[Eloy]

The right wingers here accuse the "liberals" to be intolerant of political opponents, but are they any better?

I have officially joined the GOP. I have embraced their philosophy and I'm seeing their side of things.

Will this time be like bush Tom delay and hastert? I sure hope not.

We no longer want to encourage people to have lots of kids. We are already too overpopulated. So why give the masses public school? Public schools should be a thing of the past. If you have kids pay for their school.

People do pay for their public schools through taxes.

 

[emilynghiem]

I live in America where we have teenage girls with abusive parents that need support also, many of them have ended up on drugs due to living on the streets.
At any given time I might have 2 or 3 of them living in my house with me, my wife and my own daughter. I provide them counseling, treatment, medical care and compassion (nothing indecent)
I have one that I am paying for her college right now a she fights to get back on her feet.
I do not mind doing this or spending the money that is required to get them well both physically and psychologically.
And yet, I fight to keep from paying taxes to do this same thing. I think it should be up to citizens to take care of their own, it is the decent thing to do. It is not decent for me to decide that you can just afford to pay more and more to do this. There comes a point where forced charity can hurt those being forced to give.
I have no idea why my wife continues to let me and my daughter take on this roll in the community, last year the cost to me out of pocket was enough for me to have purchased a new BMW, instead I have 4 girls with a fresh start on life, that know there is someone that honestly cares about them,, and,, an old truck to drive.
And I also think that if the government stepped back a bit, people would feel more compelled to step up and help. I refuse to believe that people are not generally good hearted creatures that will take care of others to the extent that they are financially able.
I would love to be able to afford a huge house with lots of rooms in it where I could help more at once, but I cant.
For those interested in looking in to doing something like this (and its needed) you can talk to doctors like I did and find ones that have compassion and would be willing to offer their services at a greatly reduced cost, you can also find psychologists that are willing to do the same. I have one that comes to the house twice a week to talk with the girls in their own private rooms.
If you cant afford to do it all by yourself, see if you can find friends that are as compassionate that would be willing to chip in for the care.
I think there is a great benefit to the girls when the help comes in a personal way instead of through some faceless government program that wont remember them at holidays, christmas or their birthdays.
One thing that must be mentioned before anyone considers bringing kids like this into your home. Hide anything of great value, during the first month it is very possible that the thought of stealing from you and getting high one more time is going to be greater than the thoughts of staying clean and actually creating a real life.

It should not depend on the charitable kindness of strangers to help those in need. People, through their government policies, can do better than that.

We are not going to agree on this.
Government is open to abuse and fraud, the dollars spent are not going to be as effective as they are through private charity efforts.
In many cases one of the biggest issues that people in need have is a feeling of self worth and respect, the government can not build this in a person, it also can not reach out and make the person know that someone that does not have to, really honestly cares about them, cares about their health and their future. when has the government sat up with someone that is dope sick and just held their hand, gave them a cool cloth for their forehead when their tempurature spiked? made sure they were covered with blankets when the chills hit, cleaned them up countless times per night because they were throwing up non-stop.
the government is really great at handing out money, but when it comes to letting someone know that they are really cared for, that someone has committed to being there for them through the worst time in their life, the government cant touch a private individual.My daughter and I have taken turns spending the time with these girls while they suffer through the withdrawal. I have been thrown up on more times than a mother with triplets.

Socialist and Social Democratic governments in Europe do have remedies for people with drug habits, run by good administrators and staffed by caring workers. The Americans are far behind because the corporations there control the dogma of individual entrepreneurship and free enterprise. Growing up with so much right wing propaganda on TV and reinforced by the jingoism of capitalism, it is no wonder that young people are thoroughly sick of a broken democracy which has caved-in to Business.

You can believe whatever it is that you wish, but Im telling you that government or even private treatment facilities can never compete with the help someone can get if they are lucky enough to find a private individual to help them out. ...

And I say help where needed for our people should not depend on luck.

Well I hate to disappoint you Eloy but depending on govt is a gamble.

It isn't guaranteed like you think.
My brother cannot get help and he's been in and out of hospitals and treatment since 1993.

My friend DD and his mom gamble daily if they're going to get help or refused and forced to go with other procedures or wait on other doctors or dates they can't control because of govt bureaucracy.

They had better service and choices when it was private. But public is overburdened because well meaning people like you overstack too much on govt then wonder why it doesn't work.

Doctors Without Borders, The nurturing network, Americares, so many privately managed nonprofits work cost effective and respond directly to the communities they serve because they're not limited to regulations by govt. They are free to apply services where needed.

Why can't we reward more citizens and business/school communities with tax breaks for running cost effective model programs that work? Sure the federal funds can go to the states, but from there why not set up programs free of federal red tape?

 

[sealybobo]

The right wingers here accuse the "liberals" to be intolerant of political opponents, but are they any better?

I have officially joined the GOP. I have embraced their philosophy and I'm seeing their side of things.

Will this time be like bush Tom delay and hastert? I sure hope not.

We no longer want to encourage people to have lots of kids. We are already too overpopulated. So why give the masses public school? Public schools should be a thing of the past. If you have kids pay for their school.

People do pay for their public schools through taxes.

Have you ever been to Detroit? Do you know how little those people pay in property taxes? We pick up the tab for poor people

And people pay the same no matter if they have zero or 5 kids. How about we only fund public schools for the next 13 years. Everyone who has a kid in 2 years from now will have to pay for private school.

Your way help people who can't afford kids have kids. The GOP way would lower birth rates.

 

[sealybobo]

It should not depend on the charitable kindness of strangers to help those in need. People, through their government policies, can do better than that.

We are not going to agree on this.
Government is open to abuse and fraud, the dollars spent are not going to be as effective as they are through private charity efforts.
In many cases one of the biggest issues that people in need have is a feeling of self worth and respect, the government can not build this in a person, it also can not reach out and make the person know that someone that does not have to, really honestly cares about them, cares about their health and their future. when has the government sat up with someone that is dope sick and just held their hand, gave them a cool cloth for their forehead when their tempurature spiked? made sure they were covered with blankets when the chills hit, cleaned them up countless times per night because they were throwing up non-stop.
the government is really great at handing out money, but when it comes to letting someone know that they are really cared for, that someone has committed to being there for them through the worst time in their life, the government cant touch a private individual.My daughter and I have taken turns spending the time with these girls while they suffer through the withdrawal. I have been thrown up on more times than a mother with triplets.

Socialist and Social Democratic governments in Europe do have remedies for people with drug habits, run by good administrators and staffed by caring workers. The Americans are far behind because the corporations there control the dogma of individual entrepreneurship and free enterprise. Growing up with so much right wing propaganda on TV and reinforced by the jingoism of capitalism, it is no wonder that young people are thoroughly sick of a broken democracy which has caved-in to Business.

You can believe whatever it is that you wish, but Im telling you that government or even private treatment facilities can never compete with the help someone can get if they are lucky enough to find a private individual to help them out. ...

And I say help where needed for our people should not depend on luck.

Well I hate to disappoint you Eloy but depending on govt is a gamble.

It isn't guaranteed like you think.
My brother cannot get help and he's been in and out of hospitals and treatment since 1993.

My friend Damon and his mom gamble daily if they're going to get help or refused and forced to go with other procedures or wait on other doctors or dates they can't control because of govt bureaucracy.

They had better service and choices when it was private. But public is overburdened because well meaning people like you overstack too much on govt then wonder why it doesn't work.

Doctors Without Borders, The nurturing network, Americares, so many privately managed nonprofits work cost effective and respond directly to the communities they serve because they're not limited to regulations by govt. They are free to apply services where needed.

Why can't we reward more citizens and business/school communities with tax breaks for running cost effective model programs that work? Sure the federal funds can go to the states, but from there why not set up programs free of federal red tape?

We need to loosen regulations on doctors and flood the market with doctors from cuba and India

 

[emilynghiem]

The right wingers here accuse the "liberals" to be intolerant of political opponents, but are they any better?

I have officially joined the GOP. I have embraced their philosophy and I'm seeing their side of things.

Will this time be like bush Tom delay and hastert? I sure hope not.

We no longer want to encourage people to have lots of kids. We are already too overpopulated. So why give the masses public school? Public schools should be a thing of the past. If you have kids pay for their school.

People do pay for their public schools through taxes.

Dear Eloy
Sorry but the bureaucracy of contracts through public schools and housing has also oppressed abused cut off and even destroyed whole communities by abusing eminent domain to seize and destroy property, including history landmarks federally protected, by bypassing laws. This happened in 2-3 communities in Houston that I saw protested to no avail.

It is not enough to relegate control of programs to public schools or housing.
The people in these communities need to own shares in the property or programs directly or they are NOT respected as equal persons.

My whole district fell to this abuse.
Despite federal laws written and passed to protect residents that got subverted anyway.

 

[sealybobo]

The right wingers here accuse the "liberals" to be intolerant of political opponents, but are they any better?

I have officially joined the GOP. I have embraced their philosophy and I'm seeing their side of things.

Will this time be like bush Tom delay and hastert? I sure hope not.

We no longer want to encourage people to have lots of kids. We are already too overpopulated. So why give the masses public school? Public schools should be a thing of the past. If you have kids pay for their school.

People do pay for their public schools through taxes.

Dear Eloy
Sorry but the bureaucracy of contracts through public schools and housing has also oppressed abused cut off and even destroyed whole communities by abusing eminent domain to seize and destroy property, including history landmarks federally protected, by bypassing laws. This happened in 2-3 communities in Houston that I saw protested to no avail.

It is not enough to relegate control of programs to public schools or housing.
The people in these communities need to own shares in the property or programs directly or they are NOT respected as equal persons.

My whole district fell to this abuse.
Despite federal laws written and passed to protect residents that got subverted anyway.

It's OK to rent in a nice area and send your kid to a good public school. So we have low income people sending their kids to good public schools simply because they live in the area. The parents aren't paying for their kids education we are

 

[emilynghiem]

It should not depend on the charitable kindness of strangers to help those in need. People, through their government policies, can do better than that.

We are not going to agree on this.
Government is open to abuse and fraud, the dollars spent are not going to be as effective as they are through private charity efforts.
In many cases one of the biggest issues that people in need have is a feeling of self worth and respect, the government can not build this in a person, it also can not reach out and make the person know that someone that does not have to, really honestly cares about them, cares about their health and their future. when has the government sat up with someone that is dope sick and just held their hand, gave them a cool cloth for their forehead when their tempurature spiked? made sure they were covered with blankets when the chills hit, cleaned them up countless times per night because they were throwing up non-stop.
the government is really great at handing out money, but when it comes to letting someone know that they are really cared for, that someone has committed to being there for them through the worst time in their life, the government cant touch a private individual.My daughter and I have taken turns spending the time with these girls while they suffer through the withdrawal. I have been thrown up on more times than a mother with triplets.

Socialist and Social Democratic governments in Europe do have remedies for people with drug habits, run by good administrators and staffed by caring workers. The Americans are far behind because the corporations there control the dogma of individual entrepreneurship and free enterprise. Growing up with so much right wing propaganda on TV and reinforced by the jingoism of capitalism, it is no wonder that young people are thoroughly sick of a broken democracy which has caved-in to Business.

You can believe whatever it is that you wish, but Im telling you that government or even private treatment facilities can never compete with the help someone can get if they are lucky enough to find a private individual to help them out.
I say this after seeing these things first hand, what first hand experience do you have that lends credibility to your insight?
To be fair, before you respond with your qualifications to judge the success of these programs VS. real help from someone that really wants to help, wants to see the addicted person create a good life for themselves. I might not be the most qualified here to make the judgement either but I do work in the mental health industry with a focus on the mentally ill and chemically addicted segment of society.
I have studied the relapse rates of various programs to see what does and what does not work, Ive talked with those addicted, I have done research papers on the cycle of addiction based on age groups. etc...
Sometimes, an addict will get much more from a simple hug than they will get from hours of counseling. heroin addicts are human also.
private is much better than organized.

Dear Maryland Patriot and Eloy
In both secular and faith based therapy and recovery programs that work, the common factors are forgiveness and overcoming fears that cannot be forced but only work by free choice. The spiritual healing I've seen work is outside the realm of what govt can regulate or require, though govt based medical research could study this to prove its effectiveness in healing people of both physical and mental conditions, as well as criminal illness and healing relationships around the person as well.
Secular nondenominational programs such as Alternatives to Violence Project insist on remaining separate from govt or they just don't work, they only operate based on free will, the person's uncoerced choice to change internally which is extremely sensitive and cant be from external conditions , and cannot be affected in any way by govt requirements.

The spiritual healing is what is missing from secularized medicine and mental health treatment. Ironically it's the key to freeing up the corporate monopoly on drugs, and prison industries profiting off crime and addiction instead of liberating people and saving resources for sustainable universal care that could reach and cover entire populations with the taxes already wasted on failed prison and mental health systems.

We need to focus research on the most cost effective methods of diagnosis and treatment. Spiritual healing and related alternatives are the key, but these are discriminated against by secularized science and politics.

See www.spiritual-healing.us

Thank-you for your message, emilynghiem. I am, however, a humanist who does not believe in spiritual healing.

Dear Eloy if you are a humanist you would welcome the medical research on spiritual healing as natural and consistent with science and medicine. It is more cost effective to include spiritual healing therapy that cuts costs of treating disease and addiction to save more lives and to help more people with the given resources otherwise wasted when diseases progress or people die. It's plain ethics to research and develop the most natural efficient means possible. It's unethical and deadly to DENY help for people that could have saved lives!

The help is free and does not deny or obstruct medical science but works alongside it to facilitate healing naturally.

See sources for medical research
Www.spiritual-healing.us

For testimony on healing criminal illness to prevent serial killers from harming more victims out of insane sickness that can be detected and contained in advance by spiritual diagnosis monitoring and treatment
Look up David Berkowitz Arise and Shine Ministries. He committed the Son of Sam murders while sick from occult oppression that was overcome by deep spiritual therapy to remove the demonic voices he couldn't control until after the process worked. Had Berkowitz gotten help with his occult addiction in advance, 6 victims might be alive today; so if this therapy is denied to sick people like him, how many more people die from someone's criminal illness left undetected and unchecked. Scott Peck wrote Glimpses of the Devil after he observed this same process effectively remove the influence of "demonic voices" and uncontrollable obsession in two schizophrenic patients who didn't respond to any other approach to treatment until he tried this thinking it would fail. Instead he found it not only worked, but followed quantifiable stages in a process that could be diagnosed and monitored as other mental or physical treatments based on tracking specific changes to symptoms.

An atheist friend of mine who had similar demons of rage in his head also used spiritual healing to reduce their control. So now he can avoid going out of control though he relies on anti-anxiety meds. Before he could not follow doctors instructions but now his mind and body are better than they should be given his long history of abuses building damage over time.

The spiritual healing helps the mind and body maximize natural self healing ability by REMOVING spiritual blocks caused by unforgiveness, fear, or related negative obstructions that otherwise divert positive life energy away from healing.

Honestly Eloy as a secular thinker myself brought up with Buddhist teachings to prevent and reduce suffering as much as possible,
The Spiritual Healing methods used by Christians are the key solution to curing mental and criminal illness by addressing the root causes. Instead of calling this past life karma, the Christians recognize generational ills passed down to afflict future generations. So these deep prayers to forgive and release th email root cause of ills or bad karmic patterns inherited from the past allow the natural healing energy back in to restore mind and body as much as possible .

If it's the only process that helps in certain cases, I say to study and apply it to stop as much suffering and save as many lives as possible.

It's the ethical and humane thing to do.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

The right wingers here accuse the "liberals" to be intolerant of political opponents, but are they any better?

I have officially joined the GOP. I have embraced their philosophy and I'm seeing their side of things.

Will this time be like bush Tom delay and hastert? I sure hope not.

We no longer want to encourage people to have lots of kids. We are already too overpopulated. So why give the masses public school? Public schools should be a thing of the past. If you have kids pay for their school.

People do pay for their public schools through taxes.

not equally.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

I live in America where we have teenage girls with abusive parents that need support also, many of them have ended up on drugs due to living on the streets.
At any given time I might have 2 or 3 of them living in my house with me, my wife and my own daughter. I provide them counseling, treatment, medical care and compassion (nothing indecent)
I have one that I am paying for her college right now a she fights to get back on her feet.
I do not mind doing this or spending the money that is required to get them well both physically and psychologically.
And yet, I fight to keep from paying taxes to do this same thing. I think it should be up to citizens to take care of their own, it is the decent thing to do. It is not decent for me to decide that you can just afford to pay more and more to do this. There comes a point where forced charity can hurt those being forced to give.
I have no idea why my wife continues to let me and my daughter take on this roll in the community, last year the cost to me out of pocket was enough for me to have purchased a new BMW, instead I have 4 girls with a fresh start on life, that know there is someone that honestly cares about them,, and,, an old truck to drive.
And I also think that if the government stepped back a bit, people would feel more compelled to step up and help. I refuse to believe that people are not generally good hearted creatures that will take care of others to the extent that they are financially able.
I would love to be able to afford a huge house with lots of rooms in it where I could help more at once, but I cant.
For those interested in looking in to doing something like this (and its needed) you can talk to doctors like I did and find ones that have compassion and would be willing to offer their services at a greatly reduced cost, you can also find psychologists that are willing to do the same. I have one that comes to the house twice a week to talk with the girls in their own private rooms.
If you cant afford to do it all by yourself, see if you can find friends that are as compassionate that would be willing to chip in for the care.
I think there is a great benefit to the girls when the help comes in a personal way instead of through some faceless government program that wont remember them at holidays, christmas or their birthdays.
One thing that must be mentioned before anyone considers bringing kids like this into your home. Hide anything of great value, during the first month it is very possible that the thought of stealing from you and getting high one more time is going to be greater than the thoughts of staying clean and actually creating a real life.

It should not depend on the charitable kindness of strangers to help those in need. People, through their government policies, can do better than that.

We are not going to agree on this.
Government is open to abuse and fraud, the dollars spent are not going to be as effective as they are through private charity efforts.
In many cases one of the biggest issues that people in need have is a feeling of self worth and respect, the government can not build this in a person, it also can not reach out and make the person know that someone that does not have to, really honestly cares about them, cares about their health and their future. when has the government sat up with someone that is dope sick and just held their hand, gave them a cool cloth for their forehead when their tempurature spiked? made sure they were covered with blankets when the chills hit, cleaned them up countless times per night because they were throwing up non-stop.
the government is really great at handing out money, but when it comes to letting someone know that they are really cared for, that someone has committed to being there for them through the worst time in their life, the government cant touch a private individual.My daughter and I have taken turns spending the time with these girls while they suffer through the withdrawal. I have been thrown up on more times than a mother with triplets.

Socialist and Social Democratic governments in Europe do have remedies for people with drug habits, run by good administrators and staffed by caring workers. The Americans are far behind because the corporations there control the dogma of individual entrepreneurship and free enterprise. Growing up with so much right wing propaganda on TV and reinforced by the jingoism of capitalism, it is no wonder that young people are thoroughly sick of a broken democracy which has caved-in to Business.

You can believe whatever it is that you wish, but Im telling you that government or even private treatment facilities can never compete with the help someone can get if they are lucky enough to find a private individual to help them out. ...

And I say help where needed for our people should not depend on luck.

And I tell you that back before the lazy factions in this country decided they could get more free stuff by trying to emulate a European style of government, the poor and the needy were better off in the U.S than now. Once the government began stealing from people in order to force an inefficient safety network, the charity dropped off accordingly.
What made this country great in the past was the fact that you could come here and make big, or fail big, but the choice was yours, the more we take on a european lifestyle, the farther we get from what we were and the closer we get to total socialism.
You might find that way of life just fine because you were born into it and dont know anything else, but I assure you, those that know what the U.S was like before its downturn will choose the ability to fail over safety nets any day of the week. You need to learn to depend more on yourself and less on the good will of the taxpayer. Not sure how old you are but you sound like one of the college age kids here that have never been without dads wallet and fear the day that it will happen.

 

[Eloy]

The right wingers here accuse the "liberals" to be intolerant of political opponents, but are they any better?

I have officially joined the GOP. I have embraced their philosophy and I'm seeing their side of things.

Will this time be like bush Tom delay and hastert? I sure hope not.

We no longer want to encourage people to have lots of kids. We are already too overpopulated. So why give the masses public school? Public schools should be a thing of the past. If you have kids pay for their school.

People do pay for their public schools through taxes.

Have you ever been to Detroit? Do you know how little those people pay in property taxes? We pick up the tab for poor people

And people pay the same no matter if they have zero or 5 kids. How about we only fund public schools for the next 13 years. Everyone who has a kid in 2 years from now will have to pay for private school.

Your way help people who can't afford kids have kids. The GOP way would lower birth rates.

I do not believe it is the government's business what size families are.

 

[Eloy]

It should not depend on the charitable kindness of strangers to help those in need. People, through their government policies, can do better than that.

We are not going to agree on this.
Government is open to abuse and fraud, the dollars spent are not going to be as effective as they are through private charity efforts.
In many cases one of the biggest issues that people in need have is a feeling of self worth and respect, the government can not build this in a person, it also can not reach out and make the person know that someone that does not have to, really honestly cares about them, cares about their health and their future. when has the government sat up with someone that is dope sick and just held their hand, gave them a cool cloth for their forehead when their tempurature spiked? made sure they were covered with blankets when the chills hit, cleaned them up countless times per night because they were throwing up non-stop.
the government is really great at handing out money, but when it comes to letting someone know that they are really cared for, that someone has committed to being there for them through the worst time in their life, the government cant touch a private individual.My daughter and I have taken turns spending the time with these girls while they suffer through the withdrawal. I have been thrown up on more times than a mother with triplets.

Socialist and Social Democratic governments in Europe do have remedies for people with drug habits, run by good administrators and staffed by caring workers. The Americans are far behind because the corporations there control the dogma of individual entrepreneurship and free enterprise. Growing up with so much right wing propaganda on TV and reinforced by the jingoism of capitalism, it is no wonder that young people are thoroughly sick of a broken democracy which has caved-in to Business.

You can believe whatever it is that you wish, but Im telling you that government or even private treatment facilities can never compete with the help someone can get if they are lucky enough to find a private individual to help them out. ...

And I say help where needed for our people should not depend on luck.

Well I hate to disappoint you Eloy but depending on govt is a gamble.

It isn't guaranteed like you think.
My brother cannot get help and he's been in and out of hospitals and treatment since 1993.

My friend DD and his mom gamble daily if they're going to get help or refused and forced to go with other procedures or wait on other doctors or dates they can't control because of govt bureaucracy.

They had better service and choices when it was private. But public is overburdened because well meaning people like you overstack too much on govt then wonder why it doesn't work.

Doctors Without Borders, The nurturing network, Americares, so many privately managed nonprofits work cost effective and respond directly to the communities they serve because they're not limited to regulations by govt. They are free to apply services where needed.

Why can't we reward more citizens and business/school communities with tax breaks for running cost effective model programs that work? Sure the federal funds can go to the states, but from there why not set up programs free of federal red tape?

There are too many tax loopholes in the unreadable tax code already.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

The right wingers here accuse the "liberals" to be intolerant of political opponents, but are they any better?

I have officially joined the GOP. I have embraced their philosophy and I'm seeing their side of things.

Will this time be like bush Tom delay and hastert? I sure hope not.

We no longer want to encourage people to have lots of kids. We are already too overpopulated. So why give the masses public school? Public schools should be a thing of the past. If you have kids pay for their school.

People do pay for their public schools through taxes.

Have you ever been to Detroit? Do you know how little those people pay in property taxes? We pick up the tab for poor people

And people pay the same no matter if they have zero or 5 kids. How about we only fund public schools for the next 13 years. Everyone who has a kid in 2 years from now will have to pay for private school.

Your way help people who can't afford kids have kids. The GOP way would lower birth rates.

I do not believe it is the government's business what size families are.

you are correct, and I dont believe that its the governments ( Taxpayers ) duty to make sure those families are financially cared for.
and by saying this I am not suggesting that NONE of my money goes to various "charities" I am suggesting that if I dont have to pay for something I dont agree with, then those saved dollars could be spent on something I do have compassion for.
Maybe the answer can be found in an easier way.
I wonder what would happen if instead of the government taking your money via taxes and redistributing it to various social programs, nothing was taken by the government, however, a certain percentage of income would have to be contributed by the individual taxpayer to some charitable cause or program. For example, lets say when I do my taxes, I end up showing that my charitable contribution for the year has to be no less than $2500.00. Along with my tax, I file a contribution work sheet that indicates where my money will be spent, I can choose for it to go into social programs like welfare or food stamps, or I can say to fund planned parenthood, or maybe go to a fund for medical bills for the uninsured or have an option that allows us to submit proof that we contributed to something charitable and for the good of society over the year, That way there is still the same (or more)money going to the charitable funds, but it is more aligned with what the taxpayers actually want to spend on. There would be less of a reason to complain.