Why do the God-haters persist?

[thebrucebeat]

I did not claim that you telling someone they are lying about their atheism is telling them how to behave. What I said was that your telling people that worshiping god is fundamental, keeps them from becoming overly self-centered, and prevents the downfall of civilization is telling them how they should behave.

I said I find it strange that you don't mind telling people what they believe but profess to be against telling them how they should behave. That strikes me as being like saying, "I won't tell you what to do, but I'll tell you how to think.".

When someone tells me they think worship is a waste of time and I say I disagree, and they ask me on what basis do I disagree, what am I supposed to say? I gave my reason why I believe it is fundamentally important for humans to worship. I did not tell you that YOU MUST BEHAVE THE WAY I SAY! In no way whatsoever was it "telling them how they should behave!" I also haven't told anyone how to think. You're free to agree or disagree with my opinion.

When you lie and claim to be an "Atheist" yet your actions and words demonstrate you are, in fact, an "Anti-theist" instead, I am going to point those actions and words out and expose your lie. I understand you liars don't like this, as most liars recoil at having their lies exposed. This does not bother me in the least. As a matter of fact, it actually serves to prove my point even better than I could've done if you all had simply ignored my thread. So "thank yous" are in order! You've brilliantly shown the OP to be spot on! Well done!

Being an atheist and an anti-theist as you call them are in no way mutually exclusive. Why would someone have to be an anti-theist "instead"?
Silly stuff.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Anti-Christian bigots are so dedicated to their bigotry that they can't conceive of Christians and non-Christians agreeing about anything.

Because their sole objective is to sow hate against Christians.

I don't hate Christians. I have alot of respect for those that have those beliefs influence the way they live their lives.
I don't have much respect for hypocrites, though.
Peace, love, joy, patience, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control.
The Fruits of the Spirit.
Why do you think they are a punchline? You certainly don't respect them.

That is the punchline.

"I love Christians if they act the way I think they should act"...

Lolol....

No.
It's the way Paul said you should act if you are indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
These are your scriptures, supposedly.
But what did that rube know, right?

 

[koshergrl]

As I said, you are the punchline...fomenting hatred against Christians because you think they should all act in a way YOU think they should act..and punishing them if they don't.

 

[Montrovant]

Well, no it's not. Go back and read the OP again. That synopsis took 9 words-- "people are lying when they claim to be atheists" and that was never my argument. I clearly wrote a number of full paragraphs spelling out my entire argument, and have written numerous more paragraphs explaining aspects of it in specific detail. Nine words simply don't sum it up, unless you've completely missed my point and want to distort the context so you can lie.

And yes, I will be happy to tell you what you believe if you reveal your beliefs in what you unintentionally say then proceed to lie and misrepresent yourself. I have no problem whatsoever in doing that. Yep... the truth is generally a direct contradiction of a lie.

Now I'm still not seeing how this is me telling you how to behave. That was the claim you made in the last post, and I challenged it, but here you're completely ignoring that challenge. So are you going to tell us how me telling what you really believe is me telling you how to behave, or not?

Yet again, despite all your bitching about other people misrepresenting and distorting your posts, you do it to someone else.

I did not claim that you telling someone they are lying about their atheism is telling them how to behave. What I said was that your telling people that worshiping god is fundamental, keeps them from becoming overly self-centered, and prevents the downfall of civilization is telling them how they should behave.

I said I find it strange that you don't mind telling people what they believe but profess to be against telling them how they should behave. That strikes me as being like saying, "I won't tell you what to do, but I'll tell you how to think.".

The spelling out of your argument boils down to reasons why you think people claiming to be atheists or agnostics are lying. You've been very clear that you do think many of them are lying and secretly believe in god but hate him. You've based that on what I would call spotty evidence at best, having to do with the number and tone of posts on an anonymous message board. What part of this is untrue?

Ready to complain that I am distorting your words while you distort mine?

You don't understand the language. Telling someone the rewards of behaving a certain way is not the same as telling them to behave in a certain way.

Telling people they can attain eternal salvation through Jesus Christ isn't telling them how they must behave. It's giving them a choice. And if they reject it, the consequences are their own. It still isn't telling them how to behave.

Any more than telling Christians they're retarded for believing in a *sky pixie* is telling them how to live their lives.

Or is it?

First of all, he didn't really describe rewards so much as negative consequences of not worshiping, including the end of civilized society. No, it's not telling someone directly to behave a certain way. Unless you think Boss is perfectly fine with the idea of the end of civilized society, however, it certainly seems clear that he thinks most people should worship.

To the same extent, yes, telling Christians they believe in a sky pixie or something similar can be telling them how they should behave. It's telling them they believe in nonsense, and of course most people would say people are better off not believing in nonsense.

In the same way, if a Christian tells someone that only through devotion to Christ can they achieve salvation, and without it they are doomed to an eternity of suffering, they are telling people what they should believe.

Any time you tell someone something they believe or do is basically stupid, you are at the very least strongly implying they shouldn't believe or do that thing. That is what I am saying.

 

[koshergrl]

Well we all have our personal beliefs. That's neither here nor there. Giving someone a choice and explaining that you think that behaving in a certain way will not benefit them is not the same as telling them what to do. It's simply giving them the option of doing the right thing.

Telling someone what to do, in our language, is giving an order. Not a choice.

 

[Montrovant]

I did not claim that you telling someone they are lying about their atheism is telling them how to behave. What I said was that your telling people that worshiping god is fundamental, keeps them from becoming overly self-centered, and prevents the downfall of civilization is telling them how they should behave.

I said I find it strange that you don't mind telling people what they believe but profess to be against telling them how they should behave. That strikes me as being like saying, "I won't tell you what to do, but I'll tell you how to think.".

When someone tells me they think worship is a waste of time and I say I disagree, and they ask me on what basis do I disagree, what am I supposed to say? I gave my reason why I believe it is fundamentally important for humans to worship. I did not tell you that YOU MUST BEHAVE THE WAY I SAY! In no way whatsoever was it "telling them how they should behave!" I also haven't told anyone how to think. You're free to agree or disagree with my opinion.

When you lie and claim to be an "Atheist" yet your actions and words demonstrate you are, in fact, an "Anti-theist" instead, I am going to point those actions and words out and expose your lie. I understand you liars don't like this, as most liars recoil at having their lies exposed. This does not bother me in the least. As a matter of fact, it actually serves to prove my point even better than I could've done if you all had simply ignored my thread. So "thank yous" are in order! You've brilliantly shown the OP to be spot on! Well done!

When you assume someone lies because you cannot comprehend a person behaving in an irrational fashion, arguing a point that isn't directly important to them, etc. would be a more accurate description. This is especially funny as I have not claimed to be an atheist, unless it is using the definition of simply not believing in any god. I don't deny the possibility of a god or gods. Of course, you have claimed that I actually do deny the possibility.....which is hilarious since you appear to be saying that I am one of your 'god-haters'. Obviously both of these things can't be true, but don't let the contradictory nature of your posts bother you!

I don't doubt that there are some people who believe in god but say they do not. I do not, however, accept argumentative and insulting behavior on a message board, a place well known for that kind of behavior in just about any discussion, as evidence a person is lying when they say they don't believe.

 

[thebrucebeat]

As I said, you are the punchline...fomenting hatred against Christians because you think they should all act in a way YOU think they should act..and punishing them if they don't.

So the scriptures don't influence you at all? This is something I made up and doesn't apply to you?
Do you feel punished because someone asks why this doesn't matter to you?
Ok.
You go with that.

 

[koshergrl]

I think whether or not they believe is actually irrelevant, though it is fun to point out how idiotic it is to race around asking questions about God if you maintain he doesn't exist.

I believe they're arrogant pissants that are used by Satan to do his dirty work. And they're too stupid to even recognize it...despite their eternal cry of "We're so much smarter than the average bear!"

 

[koshergrl]

As I said, you are the punchline...fomenting hatred against Christians because you think they should all act in a way YOU think they should act..and punishing them if they don't.

So the scriptures don't influence you at all? This is something I made up and doesn't apply to you?
Do you feel punished because someone asks why this doesn't matter to you?
Ok.
You go with that.

I would, if it had anything to do with anything I'd actually said, implied, or thought at any time.

As it is..meh. it's not.

 

[thebrucebeat]

I did not claim that you telling someone they are lying about their atheism is telling them how to behave. What I said was that your telling people that worshiping god is fundamental, keeps them from becoming overly self-centered, and prevents the downfall of civilization is telling them how they should behave.

I said I find it strange that you don't mind telling people what they believe but profess to be against telling them how they should behave. That strikes me as being like saying, "I won't tell you what to do, but I'll tell you how to think.".

When someone tells me they think worship is a waste of time and I say I disagree, and they ask me on what basis do I disagree, what am I supposed to say? I gave my reason why I believe it is fundamentally important for humans to worship. I did not tell you that YOU MUST BEHAVE THE WAY I SAY! In no way whatsoever was it "telling them how they should behave!" I also haven't told anyone how to think. You're free to agree or disagree with my opinion.

When you lie and claim to be an "Atheist" yet your actions and words demonstrate you are, in fact, an "Anti-theist" instead, I am going to point those actions and words out and expose your lie. I understand you liars don't like this, as most liars recoil at having their lies exposed. This does not bother me in the least. As a matter of fact, it actually serves to prove my point even better than I could've done if you all had simply ignored my thread. So "thank yous" are in order! You've brilliantly shown the OP to be spot on! Well done!

When you assume someone lies because you cannot comprehend a person behaving in an irrational fashion, arguing a point that isn't directly important to them, etc. would be a more accurate description. This is especially funny as I have not claimed to be an atheist, unless it is using the definition of simply not believing in any god. I don't deny the possibility of a god or gods. Of course, you have claimed that I actually do deny the possibility.....which is hilarious since you appear to be saying that I am one of your 'god-haters'. Obviously both of these things can't be true, but don't let the contradictory nature of your posts bother you!

I don't doubt that there are some people who believe in god but say they do not. I do not, however, accept argumentative and insulting behavior on a message board, a place well known for that kind of behavior in just about any discussion, as evidence a person is lying when they say they don't believe.

In fairness, if you don't believe in any god you are an atheist. The fact that you are also an agnostic and realize that you can't absolutely know that is the case is incidental. Not believing in any god is the very definition of atheism. Agnosticism is the realization that being able to actually know the truth of that is unavailable to you.
You are both.

 

[Boss]

other than their not building a car why is it necessary to distinguish a difference specifically to humanity ? - "we require consistent maintenance of spiritual fidelity" - "fidelity" ? are you saying they have no Spirit at all ?

No, Breeze, that doesn't appear to be remotely close to what I said. What is the problem here with people having to create completely different things for what others actually post?

"I believe the sky is blue!" ..."What? Are you saying you don't believe ice cream is delicious?" I mean, come on now man, really? Why has this grown to an epidemic in this thread? Where could you possibly get from the use of the word "fidelity" as applied to human spirit, that I am somehow saying humans don't have spirits?

Other than not building cars, there about a billion things that humans can do which no other living creature is capable of doing. Do I need to compile a complete list of those things or do you think it may be possible to stop being an obtuse nitwit for a hot second?

Humans, through our ability to spiritually connect, obtain inspiration through faith in a power greater than self. We can rationalize these inspirations to achieve things we dream possible, other animals simply seem to lack this ability. Horses, dogs, cats, pigs and goats, don't study mathematics and send their species to the moon... humans do.

 

[thebrucebeat]

As I said, you are the punchline...fomenting hatred against Christians because you think they should all act in a way YOU think they should act..and punishing them if they don't.

So the scriptures don't influence you at all? This is something I made up and doesn't apply to you?
Do you feel punished because someone asks why this doesn't matter to you?
Ok.
You go with that.

I would, if it had anything to do with anything I'd actually said, implied, or thought at any time.

As it is..meh. it's not.

How does it not relate to you? Explain that to me.
Rationally, if you can.

 

[koshergrl]

I'm not going to argue points I never made. You're boring me.

 

[thebrucebeat]

I'm not going to argue points I never made. You're boring me.

"That is the punchline.

"I love Christians if they act the way I think they should act"...

Lolol.... "

This is the point you made.
My point is it isn't how I have told you to act. It is how Paul told you you should act if you are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. That's scripture, not me telling you how to act.
I responded to your point. Does scripture matter to you? If yes, why don't the Fruits count? If no, what do you base your Christianity on?
How can this be a point you never made, if I am quoting you directly?
Like I said, I hoped you could be rational.
Hope springs eternal, I guess.

 

[koshergrl]

That's your opinion. And you think you are justified in attacking Christians based on your judgement of their *christian* behavior.

You are what you claim to hate...sans salvation. So sad.

 

[thebrucebeat]

That's your opinion. And you think you are justified in attacking Christians based on your judgement of their *christian* behavior.

You are what you claim to hate...sans salvation. So sad.

What opinion?
What scripture says?
How am I attacking you by asking you how you relate to your holy book?
Why are you not indwelt by the Holy Spirit?
Did you reject Him or did He reject you?

 

[koshergrl]

Good grief.

Is it my imagination or are the lunatics increasing at this site EXPONENTIALLY in the last couple of years?

Never mind. I know the answer.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Good grief.

Is it my imagination or are the lunatics increasing at this site EXPONENTIALLY in the last couple of years?

Never mind. I know the answer.

Avoidance is not argument.
What about my question to you indicates lunacy to you?
Are you that afraid to admit that you have no interest in what is expected of you from your faith?
Free yourself and finally admit that you aren't interested in the hard part of your faith. Just the part where you get to call people names.

 

[koshergrl]

You are engaged in your own conversation, with yourself. Carry on, since you aren't capable of intelligently discussing the topic.

 

[Montrovant]

When someone tells me they think worship is a waste of time and I say I disagree, and they ask me on what basis do I disagree, what am I supposed to say? I gave my reason why I believe it is fundamentally important for humans to worship. I did not tell you that YOU MUST BEHAVE THE WAY I SAY! In no way whatsoever was it "telling them how they should behave!" I also haven't told anyone how to think. You're free to agree or disagree with my opinion.

When you lie and claim to be an "Atheist" yet your actions and words demonstrate you are, in fact, an "Anti-theist" instead, I am going to point those actions and words out and expose your lie. I understand you liars don't like this, as most liars recoil at having their lies exposed. This does not bother me in the least. As a matter of fact, it actually serves to prove my point even better than I could've done if you all had simply ignored my thread. So "thank yous" are in order! You've brilliantly shown the OP to be spot on! Well done!

When you assume someone lies because you cannot comprehend a person behaving in an irrational fashion, arguing a point that isn't directly important to them, etc. would be a more accurate description. This is especially funny as I have not claimed to be an atheist, unless it is using the definition of simply not believing in any god. I don't deny the possibility of a god or gods. Of course, you have claimed that I actually do deny the possibility.....which is hilarious since you appear to be saying that I am one of your 'god-haters'. Obviously both of these things can't be true, but don't let the contradictory nature of your posts bother you!

I don't doubt that there are some people who believe in god but say they do not. I do not, however, accept argumentative and insulting behavior on a message board, a place well known for that kind of behavior in just about any discussion, as evidence a person is lying when they say they don't believe.

In fairness, if you don't believe in any god you are an atheist. The fact that you are also an agnostic and realize that you can't absolutely know that is the case is incidental. Not believing in any god is the very definition of atheism. Agnosticism is the realization that being able to actually know the truth of that is unavailable to you.
You are both.

I try to be clear about the definition of atheism I am using since, in my experience, people often argue about atheists while operating under different definitions of the word.

So yes, not believing in a god is perhaps the dictionary definition of atheism, but in common use, it is often a person who denies any god could exist.