Why Hayek was Right About Nazis Being Socialists

[Edgetho]

HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST

 

[Robert W]

Just like when Trump declared he had the biggest inauguration in history. Who are we to tell Trump he was wrong?

Right?

Trump was bringing into play the electronic age. I watched his inauguration on my computer screen since it was made available widely to the world this time. This of course completely pissed off Democrats. They felt their god Obama did better. But I have been at the site personally where they gathered to personally watch the event. And the press lied to the public. Shame on the media. Notice who got angry. It was entirely the press and of course to the pleasure of Democrats. They worshiped their gods Obama and Clinton and could not tolerate giving accurate reports themselves.

 

[Edgetho]

The whole point of this "because socialist!" bullshit is to try to paint Nazis as left wing.

It's idiotic.

You have to be profoundly stupid to bleev Nazis are left wing. Especially after reading Mein Kampf.

Which Mein Kampf did you read? There are more than one. Not that it matters, they're all/both idiotic ramblings of an insane person.

Hitler was a socialist. Period. Socialism was a widely held political belief in his day. The Reichstag of pre WW1 Germany had a majority of (maybe just a plurality) of socialists. Socialism was everywhere in Europe.

All different kinds of it. Believe it or not, Wiki has a pretty good section on it, describing the various forms of lunacy.

Hitler saw the excesses of Russian socialism and he wanted to try a "Third way". As did Musso before him.

Left Wing, Right Wing is such nonsense, it is far too imprecise to be of any value. Sounds like school children quibbling about Recess Arguments or which girl is the prettiest.

Hitler was a socialist. Period. Was he "Left Wing"? No. But neither was Stalin. Or Lenin. Or Mao.

Using Left and/or Right Wing to describe a political system is idiotic

 

[Robert W]

The whole point of this "because socialist!" bullshit is to try to paint Nazis as left wing.

It's idiotic.

You have to be profoundly stupid to bleev Nazis are left wing. Especially after reading Mein Kampf.

Do you seriously compare the Nazis to this country where this country talks about left wings?
The nazis had a series of huge socialist programs for the Germans. This is why the Germans were wild over Hitler once he was fully in charge.
They delivered to the Germans things the Democrats take credit for delivering. And you do claim Democrats are left wingers.

 

[Robert W]

Which Mein Kampf did you read? There are more than one. Not that it matters, they're all/both idiotic ramblings of an insane person.

Hitler was a socialist. Period. Socialism was a widely held political belief in his day. The Reichstag of pre WW1 Germany had a majority of (maybe just a plurality) of socialists. Socialism was everywhere in Europe.

All different kinds of it. Believe it or not, Wiki has a pretty good section on it, describing the various forms of lunacy.

Hitler saw the excesses of Russian socialism and he wanted to try a "Third way". As did Musso before him.

Left Wing, Right Wing is such nonsense, it is far too imprecise to be of any value. Sounds like school children quibbling about Recess Arguments or which girl is the prettiest.

Hitler was a socialist. Period. Was he "Left Wing"? No. But neither was Stalin. Or Lenin. Or Mao.

Using Left and/or Right Wing to describe a political system is idiotic

It clearly pisses Democrats off to admit Hitler imposed on Germany what Democrats want imposed on America. Such as Government managed education. Why would Democrats want control over education. Because they are socialists.
An iron fist on health care. And again this socialist program is to get the approval of the masses that they also get to enjoy socialism. We can go on and on and comment that Biden has an iron fist on the Auto industry now. And that is socialist. We can keep this up for a long time showing that Hitler and the Democrats were made of the same cloth since both wanted the same things for their own countries.

 

[Edgetho]

Do you seriously compare the Nazis to this country where this country talks about left wings?
The nazis had a series of huge socialist programs for the Germans. This is why the Germans were wild over Hitler once he was fully in charge.
They delivered to the Germans things the Democrats take credit for delivering. And you do claim Democrats are left wingers.

Hitler almost made 'socialism' work. Had it not been for his God complex and his butchery, he could have pulled it off.

While FDR was making our Great Depression worse by the day, Hitler was making Germany run like -- Well, like a German watch.

But that's the problem you run into with Totalitarianism -- Scumbags inevitably take charge and everything goes to shit.

As imperfect as our system is, and it is -- It is still the best there has ever been.

And dimocrap scum keep trying to tear it down.

Go figure

 

[g5000]

Friedrich Hayek, a famous economist, proved the Germans of the 30s and 40s were clearly socialists.
So what is the gripe? Apparently American socialists hate the notion that they are not the only socialists. They use propaganda to try to undermine that indeed the Nazis were true socialists. In fact it is difficult to locate a group more socialist than were the Nazis.

This article for example tries to help the socialists of America by denouncing the version by Hayek who lived under those socialists and could easily testify as a true expert about socialism.

To the deniers. Ask why the Germans were so delighted with Hitler until he went to war? Ask how Hitler embarked under massive socialist programs that actually did cause Germany to once more be prosperous.
Because of the German prosperity under Hitler, one might think American socialists would be happy Hitler was a socialist. And point out he did deliver prosperity as they tell us now they can do.

Why Hayek was Right About Nazis Being Socialists​

Why Hayek was Right About Nazis Being Socialists

"I would further ask him to concede that whether he agrees with the ends and goals of other socialists, their use of command and control and their introduction of some form of institutional central planning to pursue their declared 'social good' makes their system just as much a 'socialist' one...

www.aier.org

Here is a direct quote from Hayek in The Road to Serfdom:

The doctrines which had guided the ruling elements in Germany for the past generation were not opposed to the socialism in Marxism, but to the liberal elements contained in it, its internationalism and its democracy. And as it became increasingly clear that it was just these elements which formed obstacles to the realisation of socialism, the socialists of the left approached more and more to those of the right. It was the union of the anti-capitalist forces of the right and the left, the fusion of radical and conservative socialism, which drove out from Germany everything that was liberal.


As you can see, Hayek points out the socialism of the left and the right in Germany. Socialism was not just a left thing.

He also points out the nationalism of the Right is what attracted left and right socialists to Hitler's movement:

The connection between socialism and nationalism in Germany was close from the beginning. It is significant that the most important ancestors of National~Socialism-Fichte,Rodbertus,and Lassall-are at the same time acknowledged fathers of socialism. While theoretical socialism in its Marxist form was directing the German labour movement, the authoritarian and nationalist element receded for a time into the background. But not for long. From 1914 onwards there arose from the ranks of Marxist socialism one teacher after another who led, not the conservatives and reactionaries, but the hardworking labourer and idealist youth into the national-socialist fold. It was only thereafter that the tide of nationalist socialism attained major importance and rapidly grew into the Hitlerian doctrine. The war hysteria of1914, which, just because of the German defeat, was never fully cured, is the beginning of the modern development which produced National-Socialism, and it was largely with the assistance of old socialists that it rose during this period.


If you go back and read the quotes I posted from Hitler's Mein Kampf, this should clear up the stupid claims by the ignorant that Nazis were left wing.

The Nazis arose out of "conservative socialism" coupled with the kind of nationalism we see on the rise in the MAGA ranks.

 

[g5000]

It clearly pisses Democrats off to admit Hitler imposed on Germany what Democrats want imposed on America.

No, the far left wants what Stalin imposed on Russia. You need to get your ideologies straight.

 

[konradv]

Venting? Not at all, just proving that stupid fucking idiots would cut their noses off just to spite their faces, and vote Demofascists. I mean, really, to murder babies inside or outside the womb is "CHOICE". Stupid is as stupid votes and they vote Dumbocrap.

That’s the definition of venting!

 

[Edgetho]

It clearly pisses Democrats off to admit Hitler imposed on Germany what Democrats want imposed on America. Such as Government managed education. Why would Democrats want control over education. Because they are socialists.
An iron fist on health care. And again this socialist program is to get the approval of the masses that they also get to enjoy socialism. We can go on and on and comment that Biden has an iron fist on the Auto industry now. And that is socialist. We can keep this up for a long time showing that Hitler and the Democrats were made of the same cloth since both wanted the same things for their own countries.

I fought in here for years over the fact that the Media is biased. It is. dims swore to Gott in Himmel that the media was as fair as fair could be.

Do you hear that anymore? Nope. As soon as you win one battle, they change the subject from one form of scumbaggery to another. Every time. They think they're being cute.

I could deal with a National Socialist. I could even deal with a communist, a fascist or a socialist. I wouldn't like it, but I could do it.

They would be much more likely to keep their word than a dimocrap would be.

dimocraps are the scummiest scumbag pieces of filth to ever inhabit the Earth. They will not and do not keep their word. Ever. They have no honor, they think having honor is a weakness and they will exploit it at every opportunity. They are the carrion eaters of humanity. The sooner you admit to yourself that is the case, the better off you'll be.

 

[Robert W]

Here is a direct quote from Hayek in The Road to Serfdom:

The doctrines which had guided the ruling elements in Germany for the past generation were not opposed to the socialism in Marxism, but to the liberal elements contained in it, its internationalism and its democracy. And as it became increasingly clear that it was just these elements which formed obstacles to the realisation of socialism, the socialists of the left approached more and more to those of the right. It was the union of the anti-capitalist forces of the right and the left, the fusion of radical and conservative socialism, which drove out from Germany everything that was liberal.


As you can see, Hayek points out the socialism of the left and the right in Germany. Socialism was not just a left thing.

He also points out the nationalism of the Right is what attracted left and right socialists to Hitler's movement:

The connection between socialism and nationalism in Germany was close from the beginning. It is significant that the most important ancestors of National~Socialism-Fichte,Rodbertus,and Lassall-are at the same time acknowledged fathers of socialism. While theoretical socialism in its Marxist form was directing the German labour movement, the authoritarian and nationalist element receded for a time into the background. But not for long. From 1914 onwards there arose from the ranks of Marxist socialism one teacher after another who led, not the conservatives and reactionaries, but the hardworking labourer and idealist youth into the national-socialist fold. It was only thereafter that the tide of nationalist socialism attained major importance and rapidly grew into the Hitlerian doctrine. The war hysteria of1914, which, just because of the German defeat, was never fully cured, is the beginning of the modern development which produced National-Socialism, and it was largely with the assistance of old socialists that it rose during this period.


If you go back and read the quotes I posted from Hitler's Mein Kampf, this should clear up the stupid claims by the ignorant that Nazis were left wing.

The Nazis arose out of "conservative socialism" coupled with the kind of nationalism we see on the rise in the MAGA ranks.

I Do not argue this shit left wing nor right wing. I do not recall the Nazis doing that either.
I stick to the truth. Socialism was deeply imbedded in the German culture.

Seems democarts would praise this since they too want socialism deeply imbedded in American culture. Democrats of America wage constant culture wars. And they lie by telling the worker they are on his side. Immense power and authority as proven that Biden has his mind set on, to impose his iron will on this nation, is proof for most intelligent posters that Biden is a devout socialist as are a good many Democrats.
So they attack the Nazis by trying to tell us that they were not excellent socialists who caused Germany to come out of the great depression very fast. And FDR admired it and used the Nazi system here. But Hitler could not be challenged in courts as was FDR. Democrats wanted such control they imposed on America enormous grift in the form of immense taxes on Americans. And had run this nation with an iron fist during the era of WW2.

 

[Flash]

Nazi: It stands for a member of the far-right National Socialist German Workers' Party.

But yet the sonofabitches had Leftest polices like mandating Unions, providing welfare and controlling production. Not to mention being authoritative and oppressive, which is the hallmark of all Leftest regimes.

 

[g5000]

I Do not argue this shit left wing nor right wing. I do not recall the Nazis doing that either.
I stick to the truth. Socialism was deeply imbedded in the German culture.

Seems democarts would praise this since they too want socialism deeply imbedded in American culture. Democrats of America wage constant culture wars. And they lie by telling the worker they are on his side. Immense power and authority as proven that Biden has his mind set on, to impose his iron will on this nation, is proof for most intelligent posters that Biden is a devout socialist as are a good many Democrats.
So they attack the Nazis by trying to tell us that they were not excellent socialists who caused Germany to come out of the great depression very fast. And FDR admired it and used the Nazi system here. But Hitler could not be challenged in courts as was FDR. Democrats wanted such control they imposed on America enormous grift in the form of immense taxes on Americans. And had run this nation with an iron fist during the era of WW2.

To ignore the nationalist element of the conservative socialism of the Nazis is to literally ignore half the facts.

You say you aren't trying to paint the Nazis as left wing and then go on a rant attempting to connect the Democrats to the Nazis.

Who do you think you are fooling except yourself and other ignorant people?

 

[Robert W]

That’s the definition of venting!

A better example of venting is Charles Schumers terrible rant against the Supreme Court of the USA when he promised violence would be used against the Court.

The below is an attack by the left winger broadcaster.

 

[Edgetho]

I Do not argue this shit left wing nor right wing. I do not recall the Nazis doing that either.
I stick to the truth. Socialism was deeply imbedded in the German culture.

Seems democarts would praise this since they too want socialism deeply imbedded in American culture. Democrats of America wage constant culture wars. And they lie by telling the worker they are on his side. Immense power and authority as proven that Biden has his mind set on, to impose his iron will on this nation, is proof for most intelligent posters that Biden is a devout socialist as are a good many Democrats.
So they attack the Nazis by trying to tell us that they were not excellent socialists who caused Germany to come out of the great depression very fast. And FDR admired it and used the Nazi system here. But Hitler could not be challenged in courts as was FDR. Democrats wanted such control they imposed on America enormous grift in the form of immense taxes on Americans. And had run this nation with an iron fist during the era of WW2.

FDR once asked his Ambassador to Italy to tell Mussolini to stop complimenting him. It was embarrassing him.

The Sozis (socialists) were a Rival party in Germany to the Nazis (National Socialists) and they hated each other even though their beliefs were somewhat similar.

dims like to argue the indefinable like Left and Right Wing. Meaningless phrases.

 

[Edgetho]

To ignore the nationalist element of the conservative socialism of the Nazis is to literally ignore half the facts.

You say you aren't trying to paint the Nazis as left wing and then go on a rant attempting to connect the Democrats to the Nazis.

Who do you think you are fooling except yourself and other ignorant people?

Gee, I wonder if that's why they called themselves 'National' Socialists??

 

[Robert W]

To ignore the nationalist element of the conservative socialism of the Nazis is to literally ignore half the facts.

You say you aren't trying to paint the Nazis as left wing and then go on a rant attempting to connect the Democrats to the Nazis.

Who do you think you are fooling except yourself and other ignorant people?

I spoke of stopping the use of terms like left wing as both are inventions intended to deceive.
I spoke of Democrats being socialists and did not speak of that in terms of wings. I also did not say conservative.

As to using wings, sure the Nazis would be classified as the left, though I do say socialists.

Here in America. Who controls the education of Americans? Surely you do not claim the republicans control education. Unions run our education if you recall. And who praises unions? You know well it is the Democrats.

 

[Robert W]

I've read The Road to Serfdom. I think I even did a book review of it on here a long time ago. I've certainly made references to it in some of my posts.

I don't recall Hayek ever claiming the Nazis were left wing.

That's probably why the author of your three year old link doesn't quote Hayek saying so.

As I showed above, Hitler himself claimed to be anti-Left. He mocked the Left. Why are you fighting the words of the man himself?

German Businessmen Reduced to Enterprise Managers​

Guenter Reimann, in The Vampire Economy: Doing Business Under Fascism (1939), highlighted that while most of the means of production had not been nationalized, they had nonetheless been politicized and collectivized under an intricate web of Nazi planning targets, price and wage regulations, production rules and quotas, and strict limits and restraints on the action and decisions of those who remained; nominally, the owners of private enterprises throughout the country. Every German businessman knew that his conduct was prescribed and positioned within the wider planning goals of the National Socialist regime.

Not much differently than the state factory managers in the Soviet Union, even at that time under Stalin, the German owners of private enterprises were given wide discretion in the day-to-day management of the enterprises that nominally remained in their possession. But Nazi planning agencies set output targets, determined input supplies and allocations, determined wage and work condition rules, and dictated the availability of investment funds and the rates of interest at which they could be obtained through the banking system, along with strict central control and direction of all import and export trade.

 

[Robert W]

To ignore the nationalist element of the conservative socialism of the Nazis is to literally ignore half the facts.

You say you aren't trying to paint the Nazis as left wing and then go on a rant attempting to connect the Democrats to the Nazis.

Who do you think you are fooling except yourself and other ignorant people?

You derail topics by trying to discuss posters and move away from their actual points with taunts.

 

[g5000]

Gee, I wonder if that's why they called themselves 'National' Socialists??

Yes. Which is what made the Nazis right wing, just like the nationalists we see on the Right here in the US.