Why I Am Not A Christian

[CurveLight]

But he didn't do anything himself to avoid it. His passivity cannot be ignored. Also you are not even addressing the issue of all those who worship the cross because it somehow validates their own passivity and even glorifies it by association with a mythic figure known as much for his humanistic teachings as for his bizarre acceptance and, one could even say, willing embrace of public humiliation and torture.

You're not arrogant. You're just starved for attention.

You're actually condemning Jesus for choosing to accept responsibility for his actions? If he would have chose to not accept responsibility you'd be saying he set a bad example for not being accountable. Do you really not see how no matter what....you're doing nothing but looking for a way to bitch?

I cannot speak to how others worship the Cross and my position here is to point out your masochistic charges related to the Cross is not based on anything but your own whiny rants and it is not based on the facts.

Look at how much you lie you fucking bitch. This is a great example because you accuse him of:

"....willing embrace of public humiliation and torture."

You say that when we have the specifics of his state of mind in the hours before he was arrested. He begged and wept to God in prayer to avoid the torture and Crucifixion. Keep ignoring that you dishonest fuckwad.

I see what subscribing to a religion whose symbol has masochistic overtones to it has done to your mind.

I'm speaking about your reactions in general. You seem to have some kind of persecution complex about being Christian.

I think I know the difference between bullshit and civil debate that makes a valid point, which is why I won't even discuss this topic with certain people. So, it has nothing to do with having a 'persecution complex' as you so nicely put it, but more to do with recognizing bullshit when you see it, and then avoiding it. I do enjoy reading it tho, it amuses me.

That explains why you are such good pals with Curvey Delight.

All you've done in this thread is whine, gossip, then whine some more.....yet....maddy hasn't said a fucking thing about it.

I could ask when you're going to address the facts you've been ignoring but I'd have better luck convincing Tiger Woods that since he is a sports hero he can bang chicks on the side and never get caught.

 

[Avatar4321]

What do you think is the central message of christianity, CurveLight? Do you think it in any way pertains to the symbolism of the cross? I kinda sorta think it is "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

I think it's more than ironic that so many -- like you -- post to this thread to insult and annoy others and then claim they are "real" christians. Has it occurred to you that your posts here have been a terrible advert for the religion you claim to follow?

I dunno what "agenda" you'd like this thread to step sideways into; nothing prevents you from starting a thread of your own. It is no more necessary to twist what anyone else says than it is to insult people. If you cannot show a modicum of respect to others, I hope you will take Newby's advice and stop posting.

The Central message of Christianity is Redemption. The Gospel, or Good News, is literally that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came to Earth, suffered and atoned for the sins of the world, and Rose from the dead on the Third day in Triumph. Everything else is an apendage to that.

That's the Gospel. That's the Central message because that is what enables everything else. Because of Christ, though we die, we will yet live. Every single on of us has nothing to fear from death because Physical death has been overcome.

But that's only half of it. He has given us the ability to Repent. We can change our lives because of Him. If there is something that impedes us or holds us back, we can overcome it through Christ. He not only cleanses us of our past mistakes but empowers us to become new people of virtue and honor.

We don't have to be brought down by the weaknesses of our flesh. We don't have to be brought down by death or sickness. We don't have to be brought down by past mistakes that haunt us. We can grow. We can overcome. We can choose good because Christ makes it possible.

That is the Central message of Christianity. And the invitation goes out to all men to have faith in Christ unto repentence and be baptized for the remission of your sins. And then you can recieve the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. And the Holy Ghost will teach you all things. Literally, all things, as fast as we are capable of handling it.

There is so much beauty in the world. So much knowledge and the Gospel of Jesus Christ in it's purity and strength encompasses all of it.

I can't speak for the others about why they say or do what they do. But I've seen the power of that message first hand. I would be lying if i denied it. And who am I to deny God? I just know there are alot of things hid from the world, even those who profess faith, because they haven't prepared themselves for it. I know there is much I still have to learn. And I hope that I will continue to recieve greater light and knowledge line upon line and precept upon precept.

 

[CurveLight]

What do you think is the central message of christianity, CurveLight? Do you think it in any way pertains to the symbolism of the cross? I kinda sorta think it is "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

I think it's more than ironic that so many -- like you -- post to this thread to insult and annoy others and then claim they are "real" christians. Has it occurred to you that your posts here have been a terrible advert for the religion you claim to follow?

I dunno what "agenda" you'd like this thread to step sideways into; nothing prevents you from starting a thread of your own. It is no more necessary to twist what anyone else says than it is to insult people. If you cannot show a modicum of respect to others, I hope you will take Newby's advice and stop posting.

The Central message of Christianity is Redemption. The Gospel, or Good News, is literally that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came to Earth, suffered and atoned for the sins of the world, and Rose from the dead on the Third day in Triumph. Everything else is an apendage to that.

That's the Gospel. That's the Central message because that is what enables everything else. Because of Christ, though we die, we will yet live. Every single on of us has nothing to fear from death because Physical death has been overcome.

But that's only half of it. He has given us the ability to Repent. We can change our lives because of Him. If there is something that impedes us or holds us back, we can overcome it through Christ. He not only cleanses us of our past mistakes but empowers us to become new people of virtue and honor.

We don't have to be brought down by the weaknesses of our flesh. We don't have to be brought down by death or sickness. We don't have to be brought down by past mistakes that haunt us. We can grow. We can overcome. We can choose good because Christ makes it possible.

That is the Central message of Christianity. And the invitation goes out to all men to have faith in Christ unto repentence and be baptized for the remission of your sins. And then you can recieve the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. And the Holy Ghost will teach you all things. Literally, all things, as fast as we are capable of handling it.

There is so much beauty in the world. So much knowledge and the Gospel of Jesus Christ in it's purity and strength encompasses all of it.

I can't speak for the others about why they say or do what they do. But I've seen the power of that message first hand. I would be lying if i denied it. And who am I to deny God? I just know there are alot of things hid from the world, even those who profess faith, because they haven't prepared themselves for it. I know there is much I still have to learn. And I hope that I will continue to recieve greater light and knowledge line upon line and precept upon precept.

I agree about halfway regarding the theological aspects. Where we part is I don't buy that bullshit that people should feel bad or guilty about being......people. The major offense practiced by the Temple was extortion through guilt and fear. Jesus condemned that system because it did not permit the love of God. It only paid for a permit to keep the masses in the dark.

Mainstream Christianity has become the system of fear based extortion Jesus gave his life to try and stop and prevent. Have you ever noticed the mirror propaganda between MC and the "War on Terror?" For decades US Christians have been referring to satan-this everywhere but nowhere always threatening force-as "The enemy.". Do you think it is a coincidence the Neocons have been focusing on using that very same term to justify the bullshit ways we (ab)use our military?

The message of today's Christianity is not the same message that Christ brought because he did not teach us to be guilt tripping weapon toting self righteous greedy assholes.

Fuck the Catholic church for hoarding wealth while millions suffer.

Fuck the Protestant churches for trying to condemn the Catholic church while they practice the same forms of oppression while wearing different clothes

Fuck all churches who keep their doors locked while countless men, women, and children are left outside.

 

[Anguille]

He has given us the ability to Repent. We can change our lives because of Him. If there is something that impedes us or holds us back, we can overcome it through Christ. He not only cleanses us of our past mistakes but empowers us to become new people of virtue and honor.

We don't have to be brought down by the weaknesses of our flesh. We don't have to be brought down by death or sickness. We don't have to be brought down by past mistakes that haunt us. We can grow. We can overcome. We can choose good because Christ makes it possible.

All of those things are possible without Christ. Christianity does not have a monopoly on goodness and personal growth. Some people actually change their ways and become better people WITHOUT the carrot of eternal life being dangled in front of them.

 

[Valerie]

He has given us the ability to Repent. We can change our lives because of Him. If there is something that impedes us or holds us back, we can overcome it through Christ. He not only cleanses us of our past mistakes but empowers us to become new people of virtue and honor.

We don't have to be brought down by the weaknesses of our flesh. We don't have to be brought down by death or sickness. We don't have to be brought down by past mistakes that haunt us. We can grow. We can overcome. We can choose good because Christ makes it possible.

All of those things are possible without Christ. Christianity does not have a monopoly on goodness and personal growth. Some people actually change their ways and become better people WITHOUT the carrot of eternal life being dangled in front of them.

But can you blame people for seeking inspiration beyond and above themselves?

 

[Anguille]

He has given us the ability to Repent. We can change our lives because of Him. If there is something that impedes us or holds us back, we can overcome it through Christ. He not only cleanses us of our past mistakes but empowers us to become new people of virtue and honor.

We don't have to be brought down by the weaknesses of our flesh. We don't have to be brought down by death or sickness. We don't have to be brought down by past mistakes that haunt us. We can grow. We can overcome. We can choose good because Christ makes it possible.

All of those things are possible without Christ. Christianity does not have a monopoly on goodness and personal growth. Some people actually change their ways and become better people WITHOUT the carrot of eternal life being dangled in front of them.

But can you blame people for seeking inspiration beyond and above themselves?

No. Whatever floats their boat. I just get tired of people who claim their way is the only way.

 

[Valerie]

All of those things are possible without Christ. Christianity does not have a monopoly on goodness and personal growth. Some people actually change their ways and become better people WITHOUT the carrot of eternal life being dangled in front of them.

But can you blame people for seeking inspiration beyond and above themselves?

No. Whatever floats their boat. I just get tired of people who claim their way is the only way.

So you think they're just a stupid sucker after a carrot?

 

[Anguille]

But can you blame people for seeking inspiration beyond and above themselves?

No. Whatever floats their boat. I just get tired of people who claim their way is the only way.

So you think they're just a stupid sucker after a carrot?

"Stupid" and "sucker" are your words. But if people need a reward for being good, then it would seem they don't really believe in it for it's own sake.

 

[Avatar4321]

All of those things are possible without Christ. Christianity does not have a monopoly on goodness and personal growth. Some people actually change their ways and become better people WITHOUT the carrot of eternal life being dangled in front of them.

Really, How do you rise from the dead without Christ?

How do you recieve Divine power to overcome weaknesses without Christ?

There is no doubt that some reformation is possible without invoking God, but in order to change our very nature, we need Christ. No if ands or buts.

 

[CurveLight]

All of those things are possible without Christ. Christianity does not have a monopoly on goodness and personal growth. Some people actually change their ways and become better people WITHOUT the carrot of eternal life being dangled in front of them.

But can you blame people for seeking inspiration beyond and above themselves?

No. Whatever floats their boat. I just get tired of people who claim their way is the only way.

Of course it pisses you off because you see the absurdity of making false claims yet live in denial you don't make them yourself.

 

[CurveLight]

All of those things are possible without Christ. Christianity does not have a monopoly on goodness and personal growth. Some people actually change their ways and become better people WITHOUT the carrot of eternal life being dangled in front of them.

But can you blame people for seeking inspiration beyond and above themselves?

No. Whatever floats their boat. I just get tired of people who claim their way is the only way.

All of those things are possible without Christ. Christianity does not have a monopoly on goodness and personal growth. Some people actually change their ways and become better people WITHOUT the carrot of eternal life being dangled in front of them.

Really, How do you rise from the dead without Christ?

How do you recieve Divine power to overcome weaknesses without Christ?

There is no doubt that some reformation is possible without invoking God, but in order to change our very nature, we need Christ. No if ands or buts.

Jesus never said that. You're applying the commercialization of Jesus instead of being pragmatic about what he did say. When he said "No one comes to the Creator but by me" he wasn't dehumanizing himself into a product. Much of today's Christian theological framework is not based on what he said but rather a carefully chosen cherry picked amalgamation of verses that are often taken out of context. This is rooted in the Nicene Creed which was formed out of seeking political power instead of biblical comprehension.

Saying we have to "accept Jesus" for forgiveness is exactly the same theological balderdash the Temple system ran. The changes are purely cosmetic but the underlying philosophies are the same and at odds with what Jesus taught.

One of the best examples of contemporary alienation of Jesus' teachings is found in the Lord's prayer. He clearly stated "...forgive us our sins as we forgive those who trespass against us." What does that one line prove? Forgiveness is not found in "accepting Jesus" as if he were a product. Forgiveness is not unconditional. We can forgive each other through each other and not need to have our downfalls exploited by churches who claim an inherent authority in our lives when Jesus died to sever that illusion.

We receive Divine power whenever we place others ahead of ourselves. Isn't that what Jesus did? We receive Divine power because Jesus taught we all have direct access to God whenever we want it. What happens when we ignore basic teachings and invent our own? A solid example is how the Catholic church mandates celibacy. That is not a biblical instruction and Paul actually stated the exact opposite and said we should get married instead of burning with passion. I'd guess at least some priests who diddled kids are not clinically defined pedophiles. They just sought human interaction they chose to commit to deprive themselves of. So what is the fallout of ignoring clear teachings? A LOT of people got hurt and are still getting hurt.

 

[Anguille]

All of those things are possible without Christ. Christianity does not have a monopoly on goodness and personal growth. Some people actually change their ways and become better people WITHOUT the carrot of eternal life being dangled in front of them.

Really, How do you rise from the dead without Christ?

How do you recieve Divine power to overcome weaknesses without Christ?

There is no doubt that some reformation is possible without invoking God, but in order to change our very nature, we need Christ. No if ands or buts.

If you had read my post correctly you would see I did not include the rising from the dead stuff. There is no such thing as "Divine power".

I'm not particularly interested in rising from the dead, myself. I think eternal life in paradise, as lovely as it might seem when you first get there, could get pretty deadly boring after a few eons or so. I should think, that after a long and fruitful life, I will be contented and not afraid to die.

You have a very narrow mind if you think people cannot change their nature and improve themselves unless they are followers of the Christian religion.

"No if ands or buts."

LOL! Such fanaticism.

 

[Newby]

You have a very narrow mind if you think people cannot change their nature and improve themselves unless they are followers of the Christian religion.
"No if ands or buts."

LOL! Such fanaticism.

Yet he didn't say that at all.

 

[Sky Dancer]

You have a very narrow mind if you think people cannot change their nature and improve themselves unless they are followers of the Christian religion.
"No if ands or buts."

LOL! Such fanaticism.

Yet he didn't say that at all.

What Avatar said was this:

"How do you recieve Divine power to overcome weaknesses without Christ?

There is no doubt that some reformation is possible without invoking God, but in order to change our very nature, we need Christ. No if ands or buts."

which is very similar to what Anguille paraphrased. The narrow conclusion Avatar draws is no other path than Christianity is valid. Anguille rightly asserts that goodness is not the monopoly of Christianity.
__________________

 

[Liability]

You have a very narrow mind if you think people cannot change their nature and improve themselves unless they are followers of the Christian religion.
"No if ands or buts."

LOL! Such fanaticism.

Yet he didn't say that at all.

What Avatar said was this:

"How do you recieve Divine power to overcome weaknesses without Christ?

There is no doubt that some reformation is possible without invoking God, but in order to change our very nature, we need Christ. No if ands or buts."

which is very similar to what Anguille paraphrased. The narrow conclusion Avatar draws is no other path than Christianity is valid. Anguille rightly asserts that goodness is not the monopoly of Christianity.
__________________

She "rightly asserts" that?

Nice of you to make the ultimate judgment. Unless, of course, you happen to be wrong.

Since most of us do not actually have a direct line to the Almighty, it is difficult for most of us to state definitively that the claim of the Christian faith that there is but one way to the Father is an invalid or erroneous claim. [i.e., “Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'” -John 14:6]

You may fully believe that claim is wrong. So your article of faith is different than some Christians' article of faith. But it is, nevertheless, you who could be wrong.

As for me, I don't know nor do I pretend to know. I'm not very devout. Well, maybe devoutly convinced that I don't know.

 

[Newby]

You have a very narrow mind if you think people cannot change their nature and improve themselves unless they are followers of the Christian religion.
"No if ands or buts."

LOL! Such fanaticism.

Yet he didn't say that at all.

What Avatar said was this:

"How do you recieve Divine power to overcome weaknesses without Christ?

There is no doubt that some reformation is possible without invoking God, but in order to change our very nature, we need Christ. No if ands or buts."

which is very similar to what Anguille paraphrased. The narrow conclusion Avatar draws is no other path than Christianity is valid. Anguille rightly asserts that goodness is not the monopoly of Christianity.
__________________

She said 'Cannot change their nature and improve themselves'. He did not imply that or say that, he said that you don't have eternal life otherwise, nor do you receive divine power to help overcome weaknesses. Big difference.

***************************************

Really, How do you rise from the dead without Christ?

How do you recieve Divine power to overcome weaknesses without Christ?

There is no doubt that some reformation is possible without invoking God, but in order to change our very nature, we need Christ. No if ands or buts.

 

[Anguille]

Yet he didn't say that at all.

What Avatar said was this:

"How do you recieve Divine power to overcome weaknesses without Christ?

There is no doubt that some reformation is possible without invoking God, but in order to change our very nature, we need Christ. No if ands or buts."

which is very similar to what Anguille paraphrased. The narrow conclusion Avatar draws is no other path than Christianity is valid. Anguille rightly asserts that goodness is not the monopoly of Christianity.
__________________

She said 'Cannot change their nature and improve themselves'. He did not imply that or say that, he said that you don't have eternal life otherwise, nor do you receive divine power to help overcome weaknesses. Big difference.

***************************************

Really, How do you rise from the dead without Christ?

How do you recieve Divine power to overcome weaknesses without Christ?

There is no doubt that some reformation is possible without invoking God, but in order to change our very nature, we need Christ. No if ands or buts.

You must be going blind. Here, have some large print.

 

[Anguille]

What happened to ScurvyDelight? Looks like he has turned tail and bolted from this thread. Oh well, what do you expect.

shrug

 

[Newby]

What Avatar said was this:

"How do you recieve Divine power to overcome weaknesses without Christ?

There is no doubt that some reformation is possible without invoking God, but in order to change our very nature, we need Christ. No if ands or buts."

which is very similar to what Anguille paraphrased. The narrow conclusion Avatar draws is no other path than Christianity is valid. Anguille rightly asserts that goodness is not the monopoly of Christianity.
__________________

She said 'Cannot change their nature and improve themselves'. He did not imply that or say that, he said that you don't have eternal life otherwise, nor do you receive divine power to help overcome weaknesses. Big difference.

***************************************

Really, How do you rise from the dead without Christ?

How do you recieve Divine power to overcome weaknesses without Christ?

There is no doubt that some reformation is possible without invoking God, but in order to change our very nature, we need Christ. No if ands or buts.

You must be going blind. Here, have some large print.

Perhas you are? Do I really need to copy what you said? *sigh*

You have a very narrow mind if you think people cannot change their nature and improve themselves unless they are followers of the Christian religion.

Does not equal

There is no doubt that some reformation is possible without invoking God, but in order to change our very nature, we need Christ.

 

[Liability]

What happened to ScurvyDelight? Looks like he has turned tail and bolted from this thread. Oh well, what do you expect.

shrug

**chuckles**

ScurvyDelight.