Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

[Porter Rockwell]

There is no express wall building clause.

Is there an implied clause?

 

[danielpalos]

There is no express wall building clause.

Is there an implied clause?

we have a general welfare clause not a general warfare clause.

 

[OKTexas]

Sessions Welcomes 44 New US Immigration Judges

Though Sessions lauded the large number of incoming immigration judges, he warned them of the intense workload they would bear.

"I do not apologize for expecting you to perform at a high level, efficiently and effectively," he said. "Many of the cases present complex legal issues, but like anyone acting as a judge, you must manage your docket and support staff well. Cases must be moved to conclusion."

The Department of Justice received funding for 100 new immigration judges and their teams during the 2018 fiscal year. With the new class, there are currently 351 immigration judges in the department, still less than the 384 allocated in the current budget. The Justice Department has requested funding for 150 new attorneys for the fiscal year beginning October 1.

They can request till they're blue in the face. No Budget, no Judges. NO support staff, no court reporters, etc.. Right now, there is only two people that are tying up the proposed House Budget. Trump with his Veto and that POS Majority Leader in the Senate not allowing it to reach the open floor for vote. It was announced that over 90 Senators would vote in favor of it in the Senate to break the logjam. And it does have the funds for the increases in Immigration Judges and staff as well as 1.6 billion for Border Security. The system is broken when only two people can hold the nation up for ransom.

50 less than requested..............And you said he didn't want them...........You lied....

Name the 90 Senators that are ready to fold.........back up your comments for once.............

Trump WILL VETO IT...............and you don't have the numbers there....................

It came out in the news today. But also that the House Majority Leader refused to allow it go to the open floor.

You need to get yourself a program so you can figure out the players. This is the second time you screwed them up. The speaker has nothing to do with what the senate does and it's the senate majority leader that is blocking bills passed by the house from going to the floor of the senate.

.

So I mistyped. So what. McConnel is blocking it right now and there is a damned good chance if it's voted on in the next few days that it will be a veto proof bill. Is that the best defense you can come up with?

Yeah, OK.


.

 

[eagle1462010]

50 less than requested..............And you said he didn't want them...........You lied....

Name the 90 Senators that are ready to fold.........back up your comments for once.............

Trump WILL VETO IT...............and you don't have the numbers there....................

It came out in the news today. But also that the House Majority Leader refused to allow it go to the open floor.

Elections have consequences...............Dems don't have the House...........too bad.............

5.6 Billion isn't jack squat to the overall Federal Budget..............compared to the BS they spend on all the time........Pony the fuck up or it stays down.

Dems have the House and the Senate is getting real worried about 2020. The general public isn't buying the Trump Snake Oil on this one. The next step might be a change in the Senate Majority Leader to break the stalemate.

You are flat out wrong...........Border Security is high in the minds of the people when it's time to vote...............Why the Dems act tough on it come election time............their actions don't do the same.........

They have been backed into a corner and now their true colors are coming out..........They DON'T WANT BORDER SECURITY.

You keep using Border Security for the word Wall. Yah, I know, you can't tell the difference. And Obama had most of the 733 miles of Border Fence and Wall built in his 8 years. Trump has built Zero in 2 years even though he was obligated by law to add on to it. You can't count the concertina wire strung up at the entry point as building on the border security. It appears that Trump is screaming his head off yet nothing real is getting done. Once again, he is selling more snake oil and you are buying it.

When you get a clue on this get back with me.

 

[OKTexas]

Feel free to name them with credible links and you have to do better than a reprint of some dudes blog that didn't source his numbers.

.

You wish my work were some other guy's blog.

You really can't read. Your link to The Nation was a reprint from TomDispatch.com. They threw out many numbers with thin or no sourcing.

Now you're making claims about National Socialist, with no names or sources. Stop using generalize bogymen and buzz words, name names and give sources.

.

Well where do we start? Some names and sources. It would be more amazing if you could watch me in person deliver this from the top of my head, but I can verify it with those all important links that you think will make a difference. You and I both realize that you'll attack the links, but bear in mind I AM THE ORIGINAL SOURCE. This reflects what I've lived, the people I've known, activities I've participated in, and /or activities I have first hand knowledge of. The links are simply for your amusement. Use of their links only proves that certain actions happened. They do not necessarily mean I believe in or endorse their ideology.

The whole border B.S. of modern starts with David Duke and Border Watch. In the 1970s the neo - nazi who founded his own version of the Ku Klux Klan brought attention to the issue:

That time David Duke and KKK patrolled the Mexican border…

David Duke began rubbing elbows with rich fat cats that were connected to the Pioneer Fund. Since I am persona non grata with the NS, I have to rely on the left to make the connection, but their facts are verifiable:

That time David Duke and KKK patrolled the Mexican border…

Through the Pioneer Fund, David Duke met and became friends with John Tanton, a eugenics activist:

It {John Tanton's organizations} has funded Anglo-American race scientists as well as anti-immigration groups such as the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR)

Pioneer Fund - SourceWatch

John Tanton founded and financed nonprofits like the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), NumbersUSA, and a few more that build the wall guys love to cite.

John Tanton - Wikipedia

John Tanton supplied David Duke with his basic talking points when he did the Border Watch thing. I'd bet Duke still promotes the same rhetoric.

Duke's people went underground with the advent of Louis Beam and his efforts to dust off Col. Ulius Louis Amoss old thesis on Leaderless Resistance.

AFTER the left engineered the events that led up to 9 / 11, they conned the right into supporting the multi billion dollar creation of the Dept. of Homeland (IN) Security. I won't document that since you have already claimed that one. Tea Party Republicans introduced the so - called "Patriot Act", National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify - ALL of which had been vehemently opposed by conservatives (it was in the days when all right wing organizations were selling Orwell's 1984 novel.)

BTW, as mentioned to you before Russia (communist) was the Motherland, Nazi Germany was the Fatherland and when this immigration issue came to light, America became the Fatherland.

Now, we fast forward to the creation of the current leadership. John Tanton would be the man responsible for the talking points of the so - called Minutemen - the generation of nazis, inspired by the same man whose talking points appealed to David Duke.

Of those was one of the co - founders, Jim Gilchrist. Gilchrist was outed from his own organization, but not before being exposed by the left as just a racist:

"Gilchrist and Chris Simcox are widely recognized as the founders of the Minuteman Project."

Jim Gilchrist - Wikipedia

Jim Gilchrist: Discredited & Defunct Minuteman Project Busted for Lies and Defamation

Chris Simcox, Gilchrist's second in command was proven to be a nazi as was Simcox's next in command:

Jim Gilchrist: Discredited & Defunct Minuteman Project Busted for Lies and Defamation

5 of Arizona's Most Notorious Racists and Their Crimes

Of course by now, if you read your precious links, you realize that one of the founders of the current build a wall - border patrol people J.T. Ready was a mass murderer and the other (Simcox) a pedophile:

Neo-Nazi Killed Family During 911 Call

Then there was neo nazi Shawna Forde, recruited by Jim Gilchrist, another of the major founders and leaders of the political philosophy you follow:

Shawna Forde Sentenced To Death For Double Murder In Arizona | HuffPost

These ARE the movers and shakers of the "movement" to which you challenged me on. Well... birds of a feather flock together. And now the build the wall guys can cite John Tanton till Hell freezes over, but they cannot distance themselves from this one truth: AMERICA HAS AN IMMIGRATION PROBLEM, BUT THE CURRENT CROP OF BUILD THE WALL ADVOCATES ARE THE RESULT OF LOBBYING BY NATIONAL SOCIALISTS.

Wow, the lunatic fringe, and now you're saying everyone of the 64 million who voted for Trump for a variety of reasons, including border security, are now part of that fringe. Got it.

Actually I don't know anyone who would align themselves with the freaks you outlined above. I also have never heard the US being referred to as the Fatherland.

I don't know about the other folks, but I've been proposing solutions to my congresscritters long before Trump came along. Including a ways to end visa overstays. In my view a wall where needed is only one minor component of the overall solution.

Personally, I would have no problem getting face to face with the asshole that wrote your fist link and busting him in the mouth.

.

The idiocy by which you approach others is childish, stupid and would not be made by any sane adult. YOU are part of a lunatic fringe. You are absolutely delusional and I'm going to start treating you like you treat others.

Just because people vote for candidate A or candidate B does not make them part a parcel of everything that candidate is or stands for. If you were a mature adult, I wouldn't have to be telling you these things. Politicians are liars. How many people would have voted for Trump if they knew, for a fact, that before he left office he would sign major gun control legislation? The wall versus gun Rights. We'll never know how that would turn out.

Donald Trump is a rich boy that, when speaking yesterday, did not know what to call duct tape; he did not know that MS13 was founded in America by Americans and that most of those had parents who entered the United States "legally" as you would erroneously call it.

A life long friend of mine and I were having a discussion about this because I'm contacting all my congresscritters about some ideas I've been working on. My friend says, "you've been working on this since the 10th grade." Since I'm 62 now, I've had four decades to research the history, learn the legalities, and hear every excuse under God's green earth as to why something will or will not work. I've discussed it with historians, politicians, lawyers, immigration officials, and hashed out many points in think tanks.

Over those four plus decades I have talked with many people of whom you are left of center of. They see the problem and, like me, reject the wall idea as a solution. I've listed some of the major ones and the next time some jackass tells me I did not list reasons that the wall jeopardizes our Liberty, I'm going to do another list to add to the one I have and keep reposting the post numbers on every page of this thread so that everyone who joins this conversation will see them.

Make no mistake. America was founded by white Christians on the twin pillars of race and religion. The bulk of the non-white world looks at America and they hate, loathe and despise the whites and that culture they built. They have been programmed, Pavlovian style, to blame us for all their problems. They want to tear down your monuments, statues, and memorials. They want to erase your history. I should have said they're doing it. In Georgia, they take down a statue of a white man, and replace it with that of a black "Reverend" (what a joke) that spent his last hours on this earth cheating on his wife with some whores in a motel room.

There are better ideas than the proposed solutions being proffered by the nazis. If you ever watched the movie Betrayed that stars Tom Berenger, you see that Costa - Gavras did a fairly accurate portrayal of the political differences between nazis, klan, and the right wing patriots. Of course, Gavras had to portray the entire patriot community as murderers, but he did capture the tensions that existed back then between the most extreme groups.

Today, the nazis are in control of the talking points on this issue. I will remind you that Hitler died a defeated man. Our forefathers fought, bled and died having created the greatest nation in the annals of history. I prefer their solutions over those I KNOW will not work.

Just because people vote for candidate A or candidate B does not make them part a parcel of everything that candidate is or stands for.

From you're fist link:

Trump voters, though you can try all you want to rationalize that your vote was for “change,” your IQ test at the voting actually just confirmed that you—yes you—are in fact “okay” with racism. Which actually makes you a racist, too.

It’s kinda like being a “little pregnant.” Sorry!

That time David Duke and KKK patrolled the Mexican border…

Donald Trump is a rich boy that, when speaking yesterday, did not know what to call duct tape;

Actually what he described would have been painters tape, not duct tape.

Also you keep talking about a wall as a solution, I've never claimed it was a solution, I've said it's only one component of a solution. CNNs little jimmy acosta inadvertently proved that yesterday in his tranquility.

As for what the founder created, they created a new nation form what was radical ideas at the time. It was somewhat a compromise to get adequate numbers to go along with it. Like any good architect they used the tools and materials they had. Anyone who tries to judge our founders by todays standards is a fool.

But feel free to try to portray yourself as some kind of superior being. Your opinions are just that, as are mine.

.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

You wish my work were some other guy's blog.

You really can't read. Your link to The Nation was a reprint from TomDispatch.com. They threw out many numbers with thin or no sourcing.

Now you're making claims about National Socialist, with no names or sources. Stop using generalize bogymen and buzz words, name names and give sources.

.

Well where do we start? Some names and sources. It would be more amazing if you could watch me in person deliver this from the top of my head, but I can verify it with those all important links that you think will make a difference. You and I both realize that you'll attack the links, but bear in mind I AM THE ORIGINAL SOURCE. This reflects what I've lived, the people I've known, activities I've participated in, and /or activities I have first hand knowledge of. The links are simply for your amusement. Use of their links only proves that certain actions happened. They do not necessarily mean I believe in or endorse their ideology.

The whole border B.S. of modern starts with David Duke and Border Watch. In the 1970s the neo - nazi who founded his own version of the Ku Klux Klan brought attention to the issue:

That time David Duke and KKK patrolled the Mexican border…

David Duke began rubbing elbows with rich fat cats that were connected to the Pioneer Fund. Since I am persona non grata with the NS, I have to rely on the left to make the connection, but their facts are verifiable:

That time David Duke and KKK patrolled the Mexican border…

Through the Pioneer Fund, David Duke met and became friends with John Tanton, a eugenics activist:

It {John Tanton's organizations} has funded Anglo-American race scientists as well as anti-immigration groups such as the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR)

Pioneer Fund - SourceWatch

John Tanton founded and financed nonprofits like the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), NumbersUSA, and a few more that build the wall guys love to cite.

John Tanton - Wikipedia

John Tanton supplied David Duke with his basic talking points when he did the Border Watch thing. I'd bet Duke still promotes the same rhetoric.

Duke's people went underground with the advent of Louis Beam and his efforts to dust off Col. Ulius Louis Amoss old thesis on Leaderless Resistance.

AFTER the left engineered the events that led up to 9 / 11, they conned the right into supporting the multi billion dollar creation of the Dept. of Homeland (IN) Security. I won't document that since you have already claimed that one. Tea Party Republicans introduced the so - called "Patriot Act", National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify - ALL of which had been vehemently opposed by conservatives (it was in the days when all right wing organizations were selling Orwell's 1984 novel.)

BTW, as mentioned to you before Russia (communist) was the Motherland, Nazi Germany was the Fatherland and when this immigration issue came to light, America became the Fatherland.

Now, we fast forward to the creation of the current leadership. John Tanton would be the man responsible for the talking points of the so - called Minutemen - the generation of nazis, inspired by the same man whose talking points appealed to David Duke.

Of those was one of the co - founders, Jim Gilchrist. Gilchrist was outed from his own organization, but not before being exposed by the left as just a racist:

"Gilchrist and Chris Simcox are widely recognized as the founders of the Minuteman Project."

Jim Gilchrist - Wikipedia

Jim Gilchrist: Discredited & Defunct Minuteman Project Busted for Lies and Defamation

Chris Simcox, Gilchrist's second in command was proven to be a nazi as was Simcox's next in command:

Jim Gilchrist: Discredited & Defunct Minuteman Project Busted for Lies and Defamation

5 of Arizona's Most Notorious Racists and Their Crimes

Of course by now, if you read your precious links, you realize that one of the founders of the current build a wall - border patrol people J.T. Ready was a mass murderer and the other (Simcox) a pedophile:

Neo-Nazi Killed Family During 911 Call

Then there was neo nazi Shawna Forde, recruited by Jim Gilchrist, another of the major founders and leaders of the political philosophy you follow:

Shawna Forde Sentenced To Death For Double Murder In Arizona | HuffPost

These ARE the movers and shakers of the "movement" to which you challenged me on. Well... birds of a feather flock together. And now the build the wall guys can cite John Tanton till Hell freezes over, but they cannot distance themselves from this one truth: AMERICA HAS AN IMMIGRATION PROBLEM, BUT THE CURRENT CROP OF BUILD THE WALL ADVOCATES ARE THE RESULT OF LOBBYING BY NATIONAL SOCIALISTS.

Wow, the lunatic fringe, and now you're saying everyone of the 64 million who voted for Trump for a variety of reasons, including border security, are now part of that fringe. Got it.

Actually I don't know anyone who would align themselves with the freaks you outlined above. I also have never heard the US being referred to as the Fatherland.

I don't know about the other folks, but I've been proposing solutions to my congresscritters long before Trump came along. Including a ways to end visa overstays. In my view a wall where needed is only one minor component of the overall solution.

Personally, I would have no problem getting face to face with the asshole that wrote your fist link and busting him in the mouth.

.

The idiocy by which you approach others is childish, stupid and would not be made by any sane adult. YOU are part of a lunatic fringe. You are absolutely delusional and I'm going to start treating you like you treat others.

Just because people vote for candidate A or candidate B does not make them part a parcel of everything that candidate is or stands for. If you were a mature adult, I wouldn't have to be telling you these things. Politicians are liars. How many people would have voted for Trump if they knew, for a fact, that before he left office he would sign major gun control legislation? The wall versus gun Rights. We'll never know how that would turn out.

Donald Trump is a rich boy that, when speaking yesterday, did not know what to call duct tape; he did not know that MS13 was founded in America by Americans and that most of those had parents who entered the United States "legally" as you would erroneously call it.

A life long friend of mine and I were having a discussion about this because I'm contacting all my congresscritters about some ideas I've been working on. My friend says, "you've been working on this since the 10th grade." Since I'm 62 now, I've had four decades to research the history, learn the legalities, and hear every excuse under God's green earth as to why something will or will not work. I've discussed it with historians, politicians, lawyers, immigration officials, and hashed out many points in think tanks.

Over those four plus decades I have talked with many people of whom you are left of center of. They see the problem and, like me, reject the wall idea as a solution. I've listed some of the major ones and the next time some jackass tells me I did not list reasons that the wall jeopardizes our Liberty, I'm going to do another list to add to the one I have and keep reposting the post numbers on every page of this thread so that everyone who joins this conversation will see them.

Make no mistake. America was founded by white Christians on the twin pillars of race and religion. The bulk of the non-white world looks at America and they hate, loathe and despise the whites and that culture they built. They have been programmed, Pavlovian style, to blame us for all their problems. They want to tear down your monuments, statues, and memorials. They want to erase your history. I should have said they're doing it. In Georgia, they take down a statue of a white man, and replace it with that of a black "Reverend" (what a joke) that spent his last hours on this earth cheating on his wife with some whores in a motel room.

There are better ideas than the proposed solutions being proffered by the nazis. If you ever watched the movie Betrayed that stars Tom Berenger, you see that Costa - Gavras did a fairly accurate portrayal of the political differences between nazis, klan, and the right wing patriots. Of course, Gavras had to portray the entire patriot community as murderers, but he did capture the tensions that existed back then between the most extreme groups.

Today, the nazis are in control of the talking points on this issue. I will remind you that Hitler died a defeated man. Our forefathers fought, bled and died having created the greatest nation in the annals of history. I prefer their solutions over those I KNOW will not work.

Just because people vote for candidate A or candidate B does not make them part a parcel of everything that candidate is or stands for.

From you're fist link:

Trump voters, though you can try all you want to rationalize that your vote was for “change,” your IQ test at the voting actually just confirmed that you—yes you—are in fact “okay” with racism. Which actually makes you a racist, too.

It’s kinda like being a “little pregnant.” Sorry!

That time David Duke and KKK patrolled the Mexican border…

Donald Trump is a rich boy that, when speaking yesterday, did not know what to call duct tape;

Actually what he described would have been painters tape, not duct tape.

Also you keep talking about a wall as a solution, I've never claimed it was a solution, I've said it's only one component of a solution. CNNs little jimmy acosta inadvertently proved that yesterday in his tranquility.

As for what the founder created, they created a new nation form what was radical ideas at the time. It was somewhat a compromise to get adequate numbers to go along with it. Like any good architect they used the tools and materials they had. Anyone who tries to judge our founders by todays standards is a fool.

But feel free to try to portray yourself as some kind of superior being. Your opinions are just that, as are mine.

.

Let me clue you in on a few things:

1) I came here asking questions so I could determine how to answer the question why building a wall is wrong. We cannot have a discussion about what wrong means without a meeting of the minds

2) There is no reason you should be getting into personality contests with people. As you say, this is opinions; it's not a debate forum and nobody is running for public office here - not as far as can be seen by reading the posts here

3) When it comes to racism, IMO, it's simply a scare word to divert people's attention and keep them off balance. For example, I have brought up the Chinese and their wall, reminding you that they are 92 plus percent one people (one race.) Zimbabwe is 99.7 percent black. Japan is over 98 percent Japanese and they tout their racial purity. North Korea is over 98 percent one race. Are you whining about that? Does that "racism" bother you? Does it concern you that there are a LOT of countries where no white man holds ANY public office?

By your standards, it would appear that Trump is a racist. So, tell me where is the sin, the "wrong" of the racist part? If it makes you feel good to think of me as a racist, go for it. With or without a wall, the majority of the non-white world sees you as their enemy. They will take your country with or without human registration papers.

I'm committed to preserving my culture, but not at the expense of another person's Liberty. I am capable of doing both.If the build the wall guys learned that secret, they could resolve the immigration issue without a wall, without socialism, and without all the emotion laden appeals to the misguided emotions of the masses.

 

[OKTexas]

You really can't read. Your link to The Nation was a reprint from TomDispatch.com. They threw out many numbers with thin or no sourcing.

Now you're making claims about National Socialist, with no names or sources. Stop using generalize bogymen and buzz words, name names and give sources.

.

Well where do we start? Some names and sources. It would be more amazing if you could watch me in person deliver this from the top of my head, but I can verify it with those all important links that you think will make a difference. You and I both realize that you'll attack the links, but bear in mind I AM THE ORIGINAL SOURCE. This reflects what I've lived, the people I've known, activities I've participated in, and /or activities I have first hand knowledge of. The links are simply for your amusement. Use of their links only proves that certain actions happened. They do not necessarily mean I believe in or endorse their ideology.

The whole border B.S. of modern starts with David Duke and Border Watch. In the 1970s the neo - nazi who founded his own version of the Ku Klux Klan brought attention to the issue:

That time David Duke and KKK patrolled the Mexican border…

David Duke began rubbing elbows with rich fat cats that were connected to the Pioneer Fund. Since I am persona non grata with the NS, I have to rely on the left to make the connection, but their facts are verifiable:

That time David Duke and KKK patrolled the Mexican border…

Through the Pioneer Fund, David Duke met and became friends with John Tanton, a eugenics activist:

It {John Tanton's organizations} has funded Anglo-American race scientists as well as anti-immigration groups such as the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR)

Pioneer Fund - SourceWatch

John Tanton founded and financed nonprofits like the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), NumbersUSA, and a few more that build the wall guys love to cite.

John Tanton - Wikipedia

John Tanton supplied David Duke with his basic talking points when he did the Border Watch thing. I'd bet Duke still promotes the same rhetoric.

Duke's people went underground with the advent of Louis Beam and his efforts to dust off Col. Ulius Louis Amoss old thesis on Leaderless Resistance.

AFTER the left engineered the events that led up to 9 / 11, they conned the right into supporting the multi billion dollar creation of the Dept. of Homeland (IN) Security. I won't document that since you have already claimed that one. Tea Party Republicans introduced the so - called "Patriot Act", National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify - ALL of which had been vehemently opposed by conservatives (it was in the days when all right wing organizations were selling Orwell's 1984 novel.)

BTW, as mentioned to you before Russia (communist) was the Motherland, Nazi Germany was the Fatherland and when this immigration issue came to light, America became the Fatherland.

Now, we fast forward to the creation of the current leadership. John Tanton would be the man responsible for the talking points of the so - called Minutemen - the generation of nazis, inspired by the same man whose talking points appealed to David Duke.

Of those was one of the co - founders, Jim Gilchrist. Gilchrist was outed from his own organization, but not before being exposed by the left as just a racist:

"Gilchrist and Chris Simcox are widely recognized as the founders of the Minuteman Project."

Jim Gilchrist - Wikipedia

Jim Gilchrist: Discredited & Defunct Minuteman Project Busted for Lies and Defamation

Chris Simcox, Gilchrist's second in command was proven to be a nazi as was Simcox's next in command:

Jim Gilchrist: Discredited & Defunct Minuteman Project Busted for Lies and Defamation

5 of Arizona's Most Notorious Racists and Their Crimes

Of course by now, if you read your precious links, you realize that one of the founders of the current build a wall - border patrol people J.T. Ready was a mass murderer and the other (Simcox) a pedophile:

Neo-Nazi Killed Family During 911 Call

Then there was neo nazi Shawna Forde, recruited by Jim Gilchrist, another of the major founders and leaders of the political philosophy you follow:

Shawna Forde Sentenced To Death For Double Murder In Arizona | HuffPost

These ARE the movers and shakers of the "movement" to which you challenged me on. Well... birds of a feather flock together. And now the build the wall guys can cite John Tanton till Hell freezes over, but they cannot distance themselves from this one truth: AMERICA HAS AN IMMIGRATION PROBLEM, BUT THE CURRENT CROP OF BUILD THE WALL ADVOCATES ARE THE RESULT OF LOBBYING BY NATIONAL SOCIALISTS.

Wow, the lunatic fringe, and now you're saying everyone of the 64 million who voted for Trump for a variety of reasons, including border security, are now part of that fringe. Got it.

Actually I don't know anyone who would align themselves with the freaks you outlined above. I also have never heard the US being referred to as the Fatherland.

I don't know about the other folks, but I've been proposing solutions to my congresscritters long before Trump came along. Including a ways to end visa overstays. In my view a wall where needed is only one minor component of the overall solution.

Personally, I would have no problem getting face to face with the asshole that wrote your fist link and busting him in the mouth.

.

The idiocy by which you approach others is childish, stupid and would not be made by any sane adult. YOU are part of a lunatic fringe. You are absolutely delusional and I'm going to start treating you like you treat others.

Just because people vote for candidate A or candidate B does not make them part a parcel of everything that candidate is or stands for. If you were a mature adult, I wouldn't have to be telling you these things. Politicians are liars. How many people would have voted for Trump if they knew, for a fact, that before he left office he would sign major gun control legislation? The wall versus gun Rights. We'll never know how that would turn out.

Donald Trump is a rich boy that, when speaking yesterday, did not know what to call duct tape; he did not know that MS13 was founded in America by Americans and that most of those had parents who entered the United States "legally" as you would erroneously call it.

A life long friend of mine and I were having a discussion about this because I'm contacting all my congresscritters about some ideas I've been working on. My friend says, "you've been working on this since the 10th grade." Since I'm 62 now, I've had four decades to research the history, learn the legalities, and hear every excuse under God's green earth as to why something will or will not work. I've discussed it with historians, politicians, lawyers, immigration officials, and hashed out many points in think tanks.

Over those four plus decades I have talked with many people of whom you are left of center of. They see the problem and, like me, reject the wall idea as a solution. I've listed some of the major ones and the next time some jackass tells me I did not list reasons that the wall jeopardizes our Liberty, I'm going to do another list to add to the one I have and keep reposting the post numbers on every page of this thread so that everyone who joins this conversation will see them.

Make no mistake. America was founded by white Christians on the twin pillars of race and religion. The bulk of the non-white world looks at America and they hate, loathe and despise the whites and that culture they built. They have been programmed, Pavlovian style, to blame us for all their problems. They want to tear down your monuments, statues, and memorials. They want to erase your history. I should have said they're doing it. In Georgia, they take down a statue of a white man, and replace it with that of a black "Reverend" (what a joke) that spent his last hours on this earth cheating on his wife with some whores in a motel room.

There are better ideas than the proposed solutions being proffered by the nazis. If you ever watched the movie Betrayed that stars Tom Berenger, you see that Costa - Gavras did a fairly accurate portrayal of the political differences between nazis, klan, and the right wing patriots. Of course, Gavras had to portray the entire patriot community as murderers, but he did capture the tensions that existed back then between the most extreme groups.

Today, the nazis are in control of the talking points on this issue. I will remind you that Hitler died a defeated man. Our forefathers fought, bled and died having created the greatest nation in the annals of history. I prefer their solutions over those I KNOW will not work.

Just because people vote for candidate A or candidate B does not make them part a parcel of everything that candidate is or stands for.

From you're fist link:

Trump voters, though you can try all you want to rationalize that your vote was for “change,” your IQ test at the voting actually just confirmed that you—yes you—are in fact “okay” with racism. Which actually makes you a racist, too.

It’s kinda like being a “little pregnant.” Sorry!

That time David Duke and KKK patrolled the Mexican border…

Donald Trump is a rich boy that, when speaking yesterday, did not know what to call duct tape;

Actually what he described would have been painters tape, not duct tape.

Also you keep talking about a wall as a solution, I've never claimed it was a solution, I've said it's only one component of a solution. CNNs little jimmy acosta inadvertently proved that yesterday in his tranquility.

As for what the founder created, they created a new nation form what was radical ideas at the time. It was somewhat a compromise to get adequate numbers to go along with it. Like any good architect they used the tools and materials they had. Anyone who tries to judge our founders by todays standards is a fool.

But feel free to try to portray yourself as some kind of superior being. Your opinions are just that, as are mine.

.

Let me clue you in on a few things:

1) I came here asking questions so I could determine how to answer the question why building a wall is wrong. We cannot have a discussion about what wrong means without a meeting of the minds

2) There is no reason you should be getting into personality contests with people. As you say, this is opinions; it's not a debate forum and nobody is running for public office here - not as far as can be seen by reading the posts here

3) When it comes to racism, IMO, it's simply a scare word to divert people's attention and keep them off balance. For example, I have brought up the Chinese and their wall, reminding you that they are 92 plus percent one people (one race.) Zimbabwe is 99.7 percent black. Japan is over 98 percent Japanese and they tout their racial purity. North Korea is over 98 percent one race. Are you whining about that? Does that "racism" bother you? Does it concern you that there are a LOT of countries where no white man holds ANY public office?

By your standards, it would appear that Trump is a racist. So, tell me where is the sin, the "wrong" of the racist part? If it makes you feel good to think of me as a racist, go for it. With or without a wall, the majority of the non-white world sees you as their enemy. They will take your country with or without human registration papers.

I'm committed to preserving my culture, but not at the expense of another person's Liberty. I am capable of doing both.If the build the wall guys learned that secret, they could resolve the immigration issue without a wall, without socialism, and without all the emotion laden appeals to the misguided emotions of the masses.

After giving you post some serious thought, I don't see us agreeing on any aspect of this topic. So carry on.

.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Well where do we start? Some names and sources. It would be more amazing if you could watch me in person deliver this from the top of my head, but I can verify it with those all important links that you think will make a difference. You and I both realize that you'll attack the links, but bear in mind I AM THE ORIGINAL SOURCE. This reflects what I've lived, the people I've known, activities I've participated in, and /or activities I have first hand knowledge of. The links are simply for your amusement. Use of their links only proves that certain actions happened. They do not necessarily mean I believe in or endorse their ideology.

The whole border B.S. of modern starts with David Duke and Border Watch. In the 1970s the neo - nazi who founded his own version of the Ku Klux Klan brought attention to the issue:

That time David Duke and KKK patrolled the Mexican border…

David Duke began rubbing elbows with rich fat cats that were connected to the Pioneer Fund. Since I am persona non grata with the NS, I have to rely on the left to make the connection, but their facts are verifiable:

That time David Duke and KKK patrolled the Mexican border…

Through the Pioneer Fund, David Duke met and became friends with John Tanton, a eugenics activist:

It {John Tanton's organizations} has funded Anglo-American race scientists as well as anti-immigration groups such as the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR)

Pioneer Fund - SourceWatch

John Tanton founded and financed nonprofits like the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), NumbersUSA, and a few more that build the wall guys love to cite.

John Tanton - Wikipedia

John Tanton supplied David Duke with his basic talking points when he did the Border Watch thing. I'd bet Duke still promotes the same rhetoric.

Duke's people went underground with the advent of Louis Beam and his efforts to dust off Col. Ulius Louis Amoss old thesis on Leaderless Resistance.

AFTER the left engineered the events that led up to 9 / 11, they conned the right into supporting the multi billion dollar creation of the Dept. of Homeland (IN) Security. I won't document that since you have already claimed that one. Tea Party Republicans introduced the so - called "Patriot Act", National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify - ALL of which had been vehemently opposed by conservatives (it was in the days when all right wing organizations were selling Orwell's 1984 novel.)

BTW, as mentioned to you before Russia (communist) was the Motherland, Nazi Germany was the Fatherland and when this immigration issue came to light, America became the Fatherland.

Now, we fast forward to the creation of the current leadership. John Tanton would be the man responsible for the talking points of the so - called Minutemen - the generation of nazis, inspired by the same man whose talking points appealed to David Duke.

Of those was one of the co - founders, Jim Gilchrist. Gilchrist was outed from his own organization, but not before being exposed by the left as just a racist:

"Gilchrist and Chris Simcox are widely recognized as the founders of the Minuteman Project."

Jim Gilchrist - Wikipedia

Jim Gilchrist: Discredited & Defunct Minuteman Project Busted for Lies and Defamation

Chris Simcox, Gilchrist's second in command was proven to be a nazi as was Simcox's next in command:

Jim Gilchrist: Discredited & Defunct Minuteman Project Busted for Lies and Defamation

5 of Arizona's Most Notorious Racists and Their Crimes

Of course by now, if you read your precious links, you realize that one of the founders of the current build a wall - border patrol people J.T. Ready was a mass murderer and the other (Simcox) a pedophile:

Neo-Nazi Killed Family During 911 Call

Then there was neo nazi Shawna Forde, recruited by Jim Gilchrist, another of the major founders and leaders of the political philosophy you follow:

Shawna Forde Sentenced To Death For Double Murder In Arizona | HuffPost

These ARE the movers and shakers of the "movement" to which you challenged me on. Well... birds of a feather flock together. And now the build the wall guys can cite John Tanton till Hell freezes over, but they cannot distance themselves from this one truth: AMERICA HAS AN IMMIGRATION PROBLEM, BUT THE CURRENT CROP OF BUILD THE WALL ADVOCATES ARE THE RESULT OF LOBBYING BY NATIONAL SOCIALISTS.

Wow, the lunatic fringe, and now you're saying everyone of the 64 million who voted for Trump for a variety of reasons, including border security, are now part of that fringe. Got it.

Actually I don't know anyone who would align themselves with the freaks you outlined above. I also have never heard the US being referred to as the Fatherland.

I don't know about the other folks, but I've been proposing solutions to my congresscritters long before Trump came along. Including a ways to end visa overstays. In my view a wall where needed is only one minor component of the overall solution.

Personally, I would have no problem getting face to face with the asshole that wrote your fist link and busting him in the mouth.

.

The idiocy by which you approach others is childish, stupid and would not be made by any sane adult. YOU are part of a lunatic fringe. You are absolutely delusional and I'm going to start treating you like you treat others.

Just because people vote for candidate A or candidate B does not make them part a parcel of everything that candidate is or stands for. If you were a mature adult, I wouldn't have to be telling you these things. Politicians are liars. How many people would have voted for Trump if they knew, for a fact, that before he left office he would sign major gun control legislation? The wall versus gun Rights. We'll never know how that would turn out.

Donald Trump is a rich boy that, when speaking yesterday, did not know what to call duct tape; he did not know that MS13 was founded in America by Americans and that most of those had parents who entered the United States "legally" as you would erroneously call it.

A life long friend of mine and I were having a discussion about this because I'm contacting all my congresscritters about some ideas I've been working on. My friend says, "you've been working on this since the 10th grade." Since I'm 62 now, I've had four decades to research the history, learn the legalities, and hear every excuse under God's green earth as to why something will or will not work. I've discussed it with historians, politicians, lawyers, immigration officials, and hashed out many points in think tanks.

Over those four plus decades I have talked with many people of whom you are left of center of. They see the problem and, like me, reject the wall idea as a solution. I've listed some of the major ones and the next time some jackass tells me I did not list reasons that the wall jeopardizes our Liberty, I'm going to do another list to add to the one I have and keep reposting the post numbers on every page of this thread so that everyone who joins this conversation will see them.

Make no mistake. America was founded by white Christians on the twin pillars of race and religion. The bulk of the non-white world looks at America and they hate, loathe and despise the whites and that culture they built. They have been programmed, Pavlovian style, to blame us for all their problems. They want to tear down your monuments, statues, and memorials. They want to erase your history. I should have said they're doing it. In Georgia, they take down a statue of a white man, and replace it with that of a black "Reverend" (what a joke) that spent his last hours on this earth cheating on his wife with some whores in a motel room.

There are better ideas than the proposed solutions being proffered by the nazis. If you ever watched the movie Betrayed that stars Tom Berenger, you see that Costa - Gavras did a fairly accurate portrayal of the political differences between nazis, klan, and the right wing patriots. Of course, Gavras had to portray the entire patriot community as murderers, but he did capture the tensions that existed back then between the most extreme groups.

Today, the nazis are in control of the talking points on this issue. I will remind you that Hitler died a defeated man. Our forefathers fought, bled and died having created the greatest nation in the annals of history. I prefer their solutions over those I KNOW will not work.

Just because people vote for candidate A or candidate B does not make them part a parcel of everything that candidate is or stands for.

From you're fist link:

Trump voters, though you can try all you want to rationalize that your vote was for “change,” your IQ test at the voting actually just confirmed that you—yes you—are in fact “okay” with racism. Which actually makes you a racist, too.

It’s kinda like being a “little pregnant.” Sorry!

That time David Duke and KKK patrolled the Mexican border…

Donald Trump is a rich boy that, when speaking yesterday, did not know what to call duct tape;

Actually what he described would have been painters tape, not duct tape.

Also you keep talking about a wall as a solution, I've never claimed it was a solution, I've said it's only one component of a solution. CNNs little jimmy acosta inadvertently proved that yesterday in his tranquility.

As for what the founder created, they created a new nation form what was radical ideas at the time. It was somewhat a compromise to get adequate numbers to go along with it. Like any good architect they used the tools and materials they had. Anyone who tries to judge our founders by todays standards is a fool.

But feel free to try to portray yourself as some kind of superior being. Your opinions are just that, as are mine.

.

Let me clue you in on a few things:

1) I came here asking questions so I could determine how to answer the question why building a wall is wrong. We cannot have a discussion about what wrong means without a meeting of the minds

2) There is no reason you should be getting into personality contests with people. As you say, this is opinions; it's not a debate forum and nobody is running for public office here - not as far as can be seen by reading the posts here

3) When it comes to racism, IMO, it's simply a scare word to divert people's attention and keep them off balance. For example, I have brought up the Chinese and their wall, reminding you that they are 92 plus percent one people (one race.) Zimbabwe is 99.7 percent black. Japan is over 98 percent Japanese and they tout their racial purity. North Korea is over 98 percent one race. Are you whining about that? Does that "racism" bother you? Does it concern you that there are a LOT of countries where no white man holds ANY public office?

By your standards, it would appear that Trump is a racist. So, tell me where is the sin, the "wrong" of the racist part? If it makes you feel good to think of me as a racist, go for it. With or without a wall, the majority of the non-white world sees you as their enemy. They will take your country with or without human registration papers.

I'm committed to preserving my culture, but not at the expense of another person's Liberty. I am capable of doing both.If the build the wall guys learned that secret, they could resolve the immigration issue without a wall, without socialism, and without all the emotion laden appeals to the misguided emotions of the masses.

After giving you post some serious thought, I don't see us agreeing on any aspect of this topic. So carry on.

.

Have a nice day.

 

[eagle1462010]

The U.S. will increase the number of immigration judges by 50 percent to take on ballooning backlog | Daily Mail Online

The number of immigration cases on hold in the U.S. has risen 38 percent since Trump took office, with 746,049 pending immigration cases as of July 31, up from 542,411 at the end of January 2017, according to an analysis of government data by the Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse at Syracuse University.

Sessions asserted his authority on Monday during remarks welcoming 44 newly hired immigration judges - the largest class in U.S. history - noting that they must operate under his supervision and perform the duties that he prescribes.

Yea but what else is he asking for? Probably why they said no.

Perhaps.

 

[Slyhunter]

It's not Trumps wall, it's America's Wall. Build the damn wall.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

It's not Trumps wall, it's America's Wall. Build the damn wall.

Let's waste Billions if not TRILLONS of dollars on a freaking wall that, under the next liberal will be defunded. Then you will have miles and miles of walls with graffiti on them with broken cameras and the JBTs assigned to watch the wall will be patrolling and controlling those who suffer from TDS. Careful of what you wish for.

 

[eagle1462010]

It's not Trumps wall, it's America's Wall. Build the damn wall.

Let's waste Billions if not TRILLONS of dollars on a freaking wall that, under the next liberal will be defunded. Then you will have miles and miles of walls with graffiti on them with broken cameras and the JBTs assigned to watch the wall will be patrolling and controlling those who suffer from TDS. Careful of what you wish for.

You need decaf coffee.............Trillions..........you are off your rocker.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

50 less than requested..............And you said he didn't want them...........You lied....

Name the 90 Senators that are ready to fold.........back up your comments for once.............

Trump WILL VETO IT...............and you don't have the numbers there....................

It came out in the news today. But also that the House Majority Leader refused to allow it go to the open floor.

Elections have consequences...............Dems don't have the House...........too bad.............

5.6 Billion isn't jack squat to the overall Federal Budget..............compared to the BS they spend on all the time........Pony the fuck up or it stays down.

Dems have the House and the Senate is getting real worried about 2020. The general public isn't buying the Trump Snake Oil on this one. The next step might be a change in the Senate Majority Leader to break the stalemate.

You are flat out wrong...........Border Security is high in the minds of the people when it's time to vote...............Why the Dems act tough on it come election time............their actions don't do the same.........

They have been backed into a corner and now their true colors are coming out..........They DON'T WANT BORDER SECURITY.

You keep using Border Security for the word Wall. Yah, I know, you can't tell the difference. And Obama had most of the 733 miles of Border Fence and Wall built in his 8 years. Trump has built Zero in 2 years even though he was obligated by law to add on to it. You can't count the concertina wire strung up at the entry point as building on the border security. It appears that Trump is screaming his head off yet nothing real is getting done. Once again, he is selling more snake oil and you are buying it.

You can’t be obligated by law to add to any wall when Chuck Shummer and Nancy Pelosi flatly reject any deal that includes the wall. Shummer himself said for any shutdown to end Trump must give up the wall. So where is the real proof of democrats and border security? Meanwhile the Democrats botched gun tracking with Fast and Furious under Eric Holder, we have Mexican gang violence (MS-13) entering the United States. We believe in airport security after 9-11, but no strict border enforcement from a clear obvious illegal crossing of immigrants?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

It came out in the news today. But also that the House Majority Leader refused to allow it go to the open floor.

Elections have consequences...............Dems don't have the House...........too bad.............

5.6 Billion isn't jack squat to the overall Federal Budget..............compared to the BS they spend on all the time........Pony the fuck up or it stays down.

Dems have the House and the Senate is getting real worried about 2020. The general public isn't buying the Trump Snake Oil on this one. The next step might be a change in the Senate Majority Leader to break the stalemate.

You are flat out wrong...........Border Security is high in the minds of the people when it's time to vote...............Why the Dems act tough on it come election time............their actions don't do the same.........

They have been backed into a corner and now their true colors are coming out..........They DON'T WANT BORDER SECURITY.

You keep using Border Security for the word Wall. Yah, I know, you can't tell the difference. And Obama had most of the 733 miles of Border Fence and Wall built in his 8 years. Trump has built Zero in 2 years even though he was obligated by law to add on to it. You can't count the concertina wire strung up at the entry point as building on the border security. It appears that Trump is screaming his head off yet nothing real is getting done. Once again, he is selling more snake oil and you are buying it.

You can’t be obligated by law to add to any wall when Chuck Shummer and Nancy Pelosi flatly reject any deal that includes the wall. Shummer himself said for any shutdown to end Trump must give up the wall. So where is the real proof of democrats and border security? Meanwhile the Democrats botched gun tracking with Fast and Furious under Eric Holder, we have Mexican gang violence (MS-13) entering the United States. We believe in airport security after 9-11, but no strict border enforcement from a clear obvious illegal crossing of immigrants?

Once the hold is lifted, the budget must include 1.3 billion for Border Security. It's the law. This is why the Dems started the negotiations at that figure. Trump lied out his ass about the border security not being funded without him approving it. It became law as of 2006 in the Border Security Law passed by the House and Senate and signed into law by Bush, Jr.. The Budget automatically includes that 1.3 billion. But you listen to your Orange Diety who lies out his ass and says no money is allocated for the wall. it's been there since 2006.

 

[Slyhunter]

It's not Trumps wall, it's America's Wall. Build the damn wall.

Let's waste Billions if not TRILLONS of dollars on a freaking wall that, under the next liberal will be defunded. Then you will have miles and miles of walls with graffiti on them with broken cameras and the JBTs assigned to watch the wall will be patrolling and controlling those who suffer from TDS. Careful of what you wish for.

It's not going to cost Trillions.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

It's not Trumps wall, it's America's Wall. Build the damn wall.

Let's waste Billions if not TRILLONS of dollars on a freaking wall that, under the next liberal will be defunded. Then you will have miles and miles of walls with graffiti on them with broken cameras and the JBTs assigned to watch the wall will be patrolling and controlling those who suffer from TDS. Careful of what you wish for.

You need decaf coffee.............Trillions..........you are off your rocker.

You've obviously forgotten the costs of implementing National ID and the creation of the Dept. of Homeland (IN) Security that were started to justify "border security. Build the wall, the drones, the manpower, the sensors, the motion detectors, etc. - naw that stuff is cheap... NOT

 

[eagle1462010]

It's not Trumps wall, it's America's Wall. Build the damn wall.

Let's waste Billions if not TRILLONS of dollars on a freaking wall that, under the next liberal will be defunded. Then you will have miles and miles of walls with graffiti on them with broken cameras and the JBTs assigned to watch the wall will be patrolling and controlling those who suffer from TDS. Careful of what you wish for.

You need decaf coffee.............Trillions..........you are off your rocker.

You've obviously forgotten the costs of implementing National ID and the creation of the Dept. of Homeland (IN) Security that were started to justify "border security. Build the wall, the drones, the manpower, the sensors, the motion detectors, etc. - naw that stuff is cheap... NOT

I've looked at the proposals and budget and equipment.......it's not a Trillion........geesh............

 

[Porter Rockwell]

It's not Trumps wall, it's America's Wall. Build the damn wall.

Let's waste Billions if not TRILLONS of dollars on a freaking wall that, under the next liberal will be defunded. Then you will have miles and miles of walls with graffiti on them with broken cameras and the JBTs assigned to watch the wall will be patrolling and controlling those who suffer from TDS. Careful of what you wish for.

It's not going to cost Trillions.

I was being conservative in the final analysis. America has blown a couple of trillion on border security since 9 / 11 and you still don't have a wall... just a lot of tyrannical measures that affect more Americans than foreigners.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

It's not Trumps wall, it's America's Wall. Build the damn wall.

Let's waste Billions if not TRILLONS of dollars on a freaking wall that, under the next liberal will be defunded. Then you will have miles and miles of walls with graffiti on them with broken cameras and the JBTs assigned to watch the wall will be patrolling and controlling those who suffer from TDS. Careful of what you wish for.

You need decaf coffee.............Trillions..........you are off your rocker.

You've obviously forgotten the costs of implementing National ID and the creation of the Dept. of Homeland (IN) Security that were started to justify "border security. Build the wall, the drones, the manpower, the sensors, the motion detectors, etc. - naw that stuff is cheap... NOT

I've looked at the proposals and budget and equipment.......it's not a Trillion........geesh............

You've looked at estimates and those stop at building your precious wall. I don't particularly like to discuss the costs in dollars and cents. Trillions have been spent already and you still aren't satisfied. I'm concerned about the costs relative to Liberty and the strategy that will end in defeat within a generation.

 

[eagle1462010]

It's not Trumps wall, it's America's Wall. Build the damn wall.

Let's waste Billions if not TRILLONS of dollars on a freaking wall that, under the next liberal will be defunded. Then you will have miles and miles of walls with graffiti on them with broken cameras and the JBTs assigned to watch the wall will be patrolling and controlling those who suffer from TDS. Careful of what you wish for.

You need decaf coffee.............Trillions..........you are off your rocker.

You've obviously forgotten the costs of implementing National ID and the creation of the Dept. of Homeland (IN) Security that were started to justify "border security. Build the wall, the drones, the manpower, the sensors, the motion detectors, etc. - naw that stuff is cheap... NOT

I've looked at the proposals and budget and equipment.......it's not a Trillion........geesh............

You've looked at estimates and those stop at building your precious wall. I don't particularly like to discuss the costs in dollars and cents. Trillions have been spent already and you still aren't satisfied. I'm concerned about the costs relative to Liberty and the strategy that will end in defeat within a generation.

You need to be more specific .......how so.......on the wall that is BS.........And not all CBP work on the Southern Border.....They are customs enforcement too at POE's and Airports and Sea Ports............Are you trying to imply the total bill for manpower over time.........or just the Wall.

If it's just the Wall......then you are WAY OFF.