A Comicbook Perspective of the Muslim Immigration Issue

[Freewill]

Captain America is a cartoon, much like the liberal left.

Used to be Captain America fought enemies of the USA, now the liberals have him fighting Americans, typical.

 

[aaronleland]

Captain America is a cartoon, much like the liberal left.

Used to be Captain America fought enemies of the USA, now the liberals have him fighting Americans, typical.

Cap fought fascism in the 1900's, and continues to in the 2000's.

 

[peach174]

I see absolutely no reason why we should not shut down immigration into this country until we have a good, solid handle on who (and what) we are allowing to immigrate.

I understand the sentiment. I completely get it. In some ways I agree with it, and in some ways I don't.

I would like to slash the quotas of, and not completely ban immigration by Muslim refugees. Lower the quota, and make it easier for our government to really and truly vet these people, but not before the vetting process is drastically overhauled. Think of it as a compromise.

What's wrong with the vetting process as it stands?

Let's start with the cvnt who murdered 14 people in SB, CA.

Yeah uh -- he was a US citizen. By birth.

But his wife wasn't.
Maybe if he had not gotten a radicalized wife to help him, he might not have done it to begin with.
Thus the talk on both sides of wanting to shut down internet social recruiting sites, which is how they met in the 1st place.

 

[Pogo]

What's wrong with the vetting process as it stands?

Let's start with the cvnt who murdered 14 people in SB, CA.

Yeah uh -- he was a US citizen. By birth.

That doesn't matter.

THEY were Islamic radicals. Farook was given his due process rights as an natural born American citizen via a bullet through his skull. Malik was not a citizen, who came here on a K-1 visa, she radicalized Farook, and like Farook was given her right to due process with a bullet through her skull. The vetting process doesn't work. It didn't help that political correctness played a role in shutting down an FBI investigation into Farook and Malik which could have stopped them dead in their tracks.

Yes it does matter, as the question was about vetting immigrants. Farook was not an immigrant.

What the F' was she? Cvnt was obviously not pro-American.

I guess I wasn't up to speed with your use of the word "cvnt". I don't talk that way.

In any case she wasn't an immigrant fleeing a war anyway, so the example still doesn't work. Not to mention the specious assumption that she radicalized him, and not the other way around or independently, simply on the basis that he is a US citizen.

 

[Pogo]

I understand the sentiment. I completely get it. In some ways I agree with it, and in some ways I don't.

I would like to slash the quotas of, and not completely ban immigration by Muslim refugees. Lower the quota, and make it easier for our government to really and truly vet these people, but not before the vetting process is drastically overhauled. Think of it as a compromise.

What's wrong with the vetting process as it stands?

Let's start with the cvnt who murdered 14 people in SB, CA.

Yeah uh -- he was a US citizen. By birth.

That doesn't matter.

THEY were Islamic radicals. Farook was given his due process rights as an natural born American citizen via a bullet through his skull. Malik was not a citizen, who came here on a K-1 visa, she radicalized Farook, and like Farook was given her right to due process with a bullet through her skull. The vetting process doesn't work. It didn't help that political correctness played a role in shutting down an FBI investigation into Farook and Malik which could have stopped them dead in their tracks.

Well...that's a new take on due process for an American citizen...summary execution.
I hope you never criticised the drone strikes on US citizens overseas.

And, I'm not sure what the refugee vetting process has to do with this situation at all.
Neither of them were refugees.

Exactly my point. Facts are the first casualty in emotion-based argument.

 

[aaronleland]

I guess I wasn't up to speed with your use of the word "cvnt". I don't talk that way.

Pogo is such a c*nt.

 

[Pogo]

Well...that's a new take on due process for an American citizen...summary execution.
I hope you never criticized the drone strikes on US citizens overseas.

Well, this isn't Star Trek, you couldn't just transport them to a courtroom while they were killing people, now could you? When you start killing people, and pose an imminent threat to others around you, while possessing the intent to further continue killing people, your due process rights go bye bye. Those cops become judge, jury and executioner. You are now an armed and dangerous individual that must be stopped by any means necessary. Your death would be a sufficient response and recompense in that scenario.

That is not "summary execution" that is all due diligence in mitigating a threat. Learn to tell the difference.

A couple of nutballs spraying random death have to be stopped immediately by any means necessary including their final ignominious outcome here. But describing it as "due process" is revealing of your motivation.

You put a bullet through the head, or other body part, because you have to. You don't call it "due process".

 

[Pogo]

I guess I wasn't up to speed with your use of the word "cvnt". I don't talk that way.

Pogo is such a c*nt.

Am not! I'm worth at least a dime.

Everything I post makes perfect cents.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Take a look at these two pictures. The first one below is of the WWII comicbook edition of Captain America, who is depicted on the cover socking it to Adolf Hitler, easily seen as war propaganda, but it drew support for the war effort:

This is a parody of the above cover, fan art, depicting a Muslim Woman "Ms. Marvel" apparently socking it to Trump, clearly depicting him in the same way as Adolph Hitler, with "Faux News" on a display on the wall in the background. It says that it is a "bigot busting drawing." As can be deduced, the artist is taking a shot at Trump's positions on Muslim Immigration:

This is my take.

This drawing has less to do with Captain America punching Hitler as it does with encouraging members of Islam to be hostile and/or violent towards him. It's free speech, but this is a bit much.

This could have the unintended effect of being used by terrorist groups like ISIS to recruit other radicals to their side. If it's bigoted to believe that Muslims should be temporarily forbidden to immigrate here, then it is also bigoted to encourage hatred of those who support such an idea.

Bigotry is an indifference to a group of people or a set of beliefs. There's bigotry on both ends.

And as for the Hitler comparison, Trump is only asking for a halt on Muslims immigrating into America, he didn't kill 6 million of them. Nor is he suggesting that he intends to commit genocide against the Islamic religion. To compare his policy stances to the policies of a genocidal maniac who was responsible for the death of nearly 6 million people is a bit of a stretch.

You can always win brownie points by comparing someone like Donald Trump to Hitler if you don't like their opinions, but just make sure you research history before you do. It is never okay to compare someone to Hitler. Hitler murdered millions of people. Trump never will. What gives you the impression that anyone on that debate stage tonight, much less Trump, would advocate for the murder of millions of Muslims?

Someone will say, "Well Trump encourages hatred just by the way he speaks and portrays himself to the public and media. I honestly don't think he needs help in that department."

Well, like grammaw says to me sometimes:

"Two wrongs don't make a right."

So, just because Trump is supposedly encouraging hatred of Islam, doesn't mean it's right to react with hatred towards him or any of his supporters who back such an idea. I see enough of this kind of stuff regarding gay rights. The viciousness some people exhibit towards others who believe differently than they do is disheartening.

Then again, someone else mentioned to me earlier today "He didn't kill anybody. But Hitler did start somewhere. A lot of people who have been nothing but upstanding Americans have suddenly felt as if they've been targeted, perhaps indirectly. Even if he's calling for a ban on immigrants only, American Muslims are now being looked at as being guilty by association. "

So, Trump isn't capable of carrying out such an atrocity. Nor is he calling for a direct ban on immigrants. He talks tough, but he won't channel Hitler and send Muslims in America to extermination camps. To say that "Hitler did start somewhere" as it regards to Trump is an uncalled for insinuation. It's nonsense. It's intellectually dishonest.

As far as all upstanding Muslims are concerned, I understand. But members of Islam living here in America have only the radicals in their faith overseas to blame for the negative sentiment being displayed towards them. The same happened on 9/11.

No, there are upstanding Muslims everywhere in America, and the only way to combat the hatred is to stand up and say "I condemn those radicals, they do not represent my faith!" They need to do what they can to distance themselves from it.

Some will tell me I'm hating on Islam. Far from it. Even if I'm preaching hatred of a religion, then the cartoon mirrors the sentiment by encouraging hatred of people who A) Watch Fox News, thus Republicans, and B) Anyone who supports Trump's idea, thus once more, Republicans, or people who support Donald Trump. Anyone with any sense of deductive reasoning can see what the artist is trying to convey. A simple look at the imagery used in the picture will tell you that.

Some will assert that I'm defending Donald Trump. Most certainly not. I'm rubbing against the grain of public opinion here when I say Trump's proposals on Muslim immigration are extremely incorrect. It is an overreaction. And that's not a valid way, nor is it the only way. There are plenty of other ways to handle it.

People can believe what they want, whichever way they want. But hatred is not inherent to one group or religion. It's human nature.

Funny you bring up Captain America to talk about Trump. Maybe you've never read anything about Captain America. His powers are lame compared to other heroes and he's often tacky and boring, but the one thing he never wavers on is his devotion to America's principles and the ideas that America stands for. He'd sock Trump the same as Hitler.

Captain America was the main opponent of the Superhuman Registration Act. Correct me Harry Dresden if I'm wrong in my wording. Superhumans were forced to register with the government based on the few who abused their powers. A large group of people being forced to register with the government based on what a few of them have done? Sounds like Trump's plan for Muslims.

the new Captain America:Civil War movie kinda deals with this type of premise if i am not mistaken.....

 

[Coyote]

"Hatred is human nature" says the OP. Nothing can be further from the truth. Maybe it is for the OP. Maybe it is for Conservatives. For most humans, hatred is what is earned by your actions or earned by others for their actions.

No, I disagree. It's human nature, but it must be taught. And often, it is not as logical as being earned by one's "actions" sometimes it's based on nothing more than one's being. A muslim, a fundamentalist Christian, a Jew, a liberal, a conservative. How often is hatred directed at a person, not what what they've done but for their views?

 

[TemplarKormac]

"Hatred is human nature" says the OP. Nothing can be further from the truth. Maybe it is for the OP. Maybe it is for Conservatives. For most humans, hatred is what is earned by your actions or earned by others for their actions.

No, I disagree. It's human nature, but it must be taught. And often, it is not as logical as being earned by one's "actions" sometimes it's based on nothing more than one's being. A Muslim, a fundamentalist Christian, a Jew, a liberal, a conservative. How often is hatred directed at a person, not what what they've done but for their views?

That was very insightful. Thank you. Glad you understood what I meant by that.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I see absolutely no reason why we should not shut down immigration into this country until we have a good, solid handle on who (and what) we are allowing to immigrate.

"we have a very rigid vetting process", is what i heard some liberfool talking slopehead say yesterday, this might have been true in the early 20th century, but today....,

Back in the days when almost every single immigrant was processed through Ellis Island, tested for diseases, etc, I would agree that we had a "very rigid vetting process". Nowadays...yeah, not so much, if at all.