A Reasonable Solution To The Gay Marriage Debate

[Katzndogz]

Spiritual principles are universal. They include, the right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness.

I see less value given to universal spiritual principles including love, selflessness, honesty, integrity, humility, patience, courage, sacrifice, compassion, forgiveness, acceptance, self-discipline, open-mindedness, perseverance and gratitude to God. At the same time I see more value given to popularity, beauty, coolness, sexuality, wealth, pride, diversity ( as a virtue, in and of itself), fame, power, thrill seeking, phony self esteem and the hatred toward God.

The right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness do not have a damn thing to do with your la de la da "spiritual principles".
Americans enjoy them because OF THE LAW and the blood spilled in protection of them.
Nothing spiritual whatsoever.

The following is an excerpt from the "Declaration of Independence" Which our constitution was based on:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

Your ignorance proves my point about the brainwashing that occurs in today's education system.

Right after that comes:

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

If the consent of those governed is missing the demands of the government become part of the Intolerable Acts which what the Declaration of Independence addressed.

What should happen to an oppressive government that demands that the governed acquiece to the government. It's right there in the Declaration.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

What should the governed do to the misbehaving government?

Right there in the DOI!

it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--

To think that the beginning, middle and end of the Declaration is the right to pursue (not be guaranteed) happiness is short sighted.

 

[garyganu]

Not at all. The stats bear out the fact that since the sexual revolution and the release of the pro-child abuse, pro-promiscuity, Kinsey reports, pro-no-fault divorce Kinsey reports, our society has fallen into the hole that whole-sale sexual depravity leads to.

Divorce, crime, child abuse, sexually transmitted diseases, abortion...all exponentially higher than pre-Kinsey and pre-RvW.

Unless you think those are signs of a sound society?

This is one of the fundamental differences between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives seek to "restore America". Liberals seek to "change America".

restore America to what? some fantasy time that never existed?
what so amusing about that statement is the people who use it display a"willfull ignorance" of history.
pick a time in our history when things closer to life, liberty, happiness, justice for all and equality?
OK choose ..
this should be entertaining.

My life and my perspective begin in the 1950's. Things were much better before "The Day The Music Died". Bye Bye miss American pie.

 

[garyganu]

I think much of this has to do with where you look and the influence of the media and politicians.

I have seen great examples of love, selflessness, courage and sacrifice. Spend some time working with disastor relief or working in an area hit by a disastor and you will see it too. The problem is, the media doesn't report it. They'd rather spew garbage that keep us uncomfortable or afraid. And that is because reporting fearful things is self-serving.

I see that the value given to beauty, popularity, coolness, wealth,pride, power, thrill seeking and fame have always been with us. These are nothing new. But again, the media loves to portray what they want. It is self-serving.

I see more people communicating with more different people than ever before in the history of mankind. Anytime we have more communication there is the potential for conflict, but also the potential for great things.

I see that we have more people having access to a quality education than ever before in our history. We have more people with more access to better medical care than ever before in our history. We have more people following their dreams. We have more people free to change professions and careers. We have people who, just a few decades ago, saw only limited options now having virtually unlimited opportunities. We have music, literature and arts available to more people from more sources than ever in our history.

I see unrest being portrayed because the populations are no longer able to be controlled, as they were just a few decades ago. If that scares you I am sorry.

I see our society in a flux, as these new freedoms create new avenues for people that did not exist a short time ago. If that scares you I am sorry.




One of the basic points you need to consider is the influence of the media. You can rant about porno and glamor junk ruining us. But what ruins us is the acceptance of news slanted to an agenda. That is what destroys. That is what causes fear. And teh reaction to that fear is damaging.

Think about when you watch the news. If you are having a great day, life is good and you feel hopeful, do you rush to turn on CNN or Fox? No. But if there is a disastor you certainly do. You watch news when you are scared. News is no longer a service. News is big business. And how do they keep you watching? By keeping you afraid. Stop being afraid and you'll be much happier.

Gays marrying will not destroy anything. It is a minor issue at best, unless you are gay and in a situation where on of the benefits of being married would help.

Our society is doing fine. The economic downturn was not created by gays or diversity or any of the other things you fear. It was created by greed and by the people in charge being uninterested in what is best for people.

How can you say that our society is doing fine when the government borrows 43 cents for every dollar that it spends. This is unsustainable and nobody seems to to think that this is a critical problem that will destroy us unless we reduce the size and cost of government.

Also, American universities are a HUGE part of our decline. They promote an agenda that is anti-american, anti-God and anti-family. Without God, family and country, our nation will cease to exist. American universities do MORE HARM THAN GOOD.

There is nothing new about yellow journalism, However today's American culture is no longer able to discern the truth from lies because they have lost their moral compass.

is it just me, or does this just scream of indoctrination and a sense of entitlement.
more importantly it stinks of an assumed Superior moral agenda based on the unprovable premise of a god.

It is just plain wrong to not live within your means. Besides, it is unsustainable.

 

[garyganu]

That is great. But when people decide they don't want God, don't blame the universities. Blame the greed, promotion of hatred, and control issues of the churches. That is what has turned people away.

Promoting families is great. A gay couple raising children is a family, whether you like it or not. Include that in your values and I'm more likely to believe you.

The values of country are kinda another issue. I love this country and what it has done over the 250 odd years it has been around. But I also despise some of the things it has done and has stood for. That is where we differ. You want to go back to unquestioning loyalty, whereas I prefer to see reality. I am proud of the good and ashamed of the bad.

A very small percentage of gay men are interested in raising children. Bi-sexual women often raise children from previous broken marriages. The contribution of gay couples to raising families is negligible. Also, children benefit more from opposite-sex parents. man and women complement each other and keep each other in check. Gay unions are missing balance.

The universities are systematically destroying their student's faith in God. 80% of university students lose their faith in God before they graduate. It is very arrogant to teach kids that there is NO higher power. This defies reason and commonsense. It also leaves kids vulnerable to the belief that the government is their highest authority.

total bullshit!
if you went to college you must have missed the most important reason for going.
TO open minds to possibilities..not to indoctrinate them into a one dimensional pov.
if 80% of university students lose their faith,then logically there are major flaws in that faith if knowledge has the power to kill it.

College students are "YOUNG MINDS FULL OF MUSH". They are easily indoctrinated

A majority of Americans believe in God, while a minority of college graduates do not believe in God

A majority of Americans are against gay marriage, yet a majority of college graduates are in favor of gay marriage.

Most Americans believe in enforcing our immigration laws. A majority of college graduate believe in amnesty.

Most American believe that the Palestinians are terrorist, bigots. Most college graduates s.believe that Palestinians are freedom fighters.

Most Americans believe that the Earth's climate is cyclical. A majority of College students believe in man-made global warming.

Most Americans believe that abortion is murder. A majority of college graduates believe that abortion is a woman's right.

I can go on and on.

 

[WinterBorn]

And PS...did you or did you not say our society was doing just fine, except for a *slight* economic downturn?

Yes I did. But that in no way infers any of the horrific crap you accused me of.

I see both good and bad in our society. But I see more growth, realization of potential and increases in quality of life for more people. I see that as good. I see more information and knowledge available for more people, and I think that is good.

Just because I do not see society in decline does not mean, in any way, that I see it as perfect or without problems.

bump

Yeah, it was this line of talk that had me put her on ignore. I'm on 4 discussion type forum boards and I have a grand total of 2 people on ignore. This bitch crossed the line and seemed to be glad of it.

 

[WinterBorn]

Spiritual principles are universal. They include, the right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness.

I see less value given to universal spiritual principles including love, selflessness, honesty, integrity, humility, patience, courage, sacrifice, compassion, forgiveness, acceptance, self-discipline, open-mindedness, perseverance and gratitude to God. At the same time I see more value given to popularity, beauty, coolness, sexuality, wealth, pride, diversity ( as a virtue, in and of itself), fame, power, thrill seeking, phony self esteem and the hatred toward God.

The right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness do not have a damn thing to do with your la de la da "spiritual principles".
Americans enjoy them because OF THE LAW and the blood spilled in protection of them.
Nothing spiritual whatsoever.

The following is an excerpt from the "Declaration of Independence" Which our constitution was based on:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

Your ignorance proves my point about the brainwashing that occurs in today's education system.

And the Declaration of Independence has what place in our legal system?

Also, would you care to share ANY evidence that the writers of that line intended for it to mean the Christian God?

 

[WinterBorn]

A very small percentage of gay men are interested in raising children. Bi-sexual women often raise children from previous broken marriages. The contribution of gay couples to raising families is negligible. Also, children benefit more from opposite-sex parents. man and women complement each other and keep each other in check. Gay unions are missing balance.

The universities are systematically destroying their student's faith in God. 80% of university students lose their faith in God before they graduate. It is very arrogant to teach kids that there is NO higher power. This defies reason and commonsense. It also leaves kids vulnerable to the belief that the government is their highest authority.

total bullshit!
if you went to college you must have missed the most important reason for going.
TO open minds to possibilities..not to indoctrinate them into a one dimensional pov.
if 80% of university students lose their faith,then logically there are major flaws in that faith if knowledge has the power to kill it.

College students are "YOUNG MINDS FULL OF MUSH". They are easily indoctrinated

A majority of Americans believe in God, while a minority of college graduates do not believe in God

A majority of Americans are against gay marriage, yet a majority of college graduates are in favor of gay marriage.

Most Americans believe in enforcing our immigration laws. A majority of college graduate believe in amnesty.

Most American believe that the Palestinians are terrorist, bigots. Most college graduates s.believe that Palestinians are freedom fighters.

Most Americans believe that the Earth's climate is cyclical. A majority of College students believe in man-made global warming.

Most Americans believe that abortion is murder. A majority of college graduates believe that abortion is a woman's right.

I can go on and on.

Again, you are confusing cause and effect.

The fact that these things happen at roughly the same time does not mean the university causes them. In fact, most universities try to maintain a somewhat neutral stance, politically. It keeps their funding going.

 

[koshergrl]

The right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness do not have a damn thing to do with your la de la da "spiritual principles".
Americans enjoy them because OF THE LAW and the blood spilled in protection of them.
Nothing spiritual whatsoever.

The following is an excerpt from the "Declaration of Independence" Which our constitution was based on:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

Your ignorance proves my point about the brainwashing that occurs in today's education system.

And the Declaration of Independence has what place in our legal system?

Also, would you care to share ANY evidence that the writers of that line intended for it to mean the Christian God?

Yeah, cuz we don't know anything about the men who wrote the Declaration.


This is what I'm talking about...Progressives are the enemy of truth, and also the enemy of history, because history shows them for what they are.

 

[WorldWatcher]

A majority of Americans believe in God, while a minority of college graduates do not believe in God

If a minority of college graduates do not believe in God, then that would mean that a majority do believe in God.

Therefore...

A majority of Americans believe in God and a majority of college graduates do believe in God

A majority of Americans are against gay marriage, yet a majority of college graduates are in favor of gay marriage.

Polls show that the perceptions of the acceptability of homosexual relationships have been shifting. What can be said is a majority of voters have voted against Same-sex Civil Marriage in the past.

Not to worry, we are nearing a time when a majority of voters will be approving it at the ballot box. The first good shot is Maine this year, with Washington a close second.



>>>>

 

[koshergrl]

Mobs have zero consideration for the will of the people, or for law. Zero.

 

[garyganu]

Yes I did. But that in no way infers any of the horrific crap you accused me of.

I see both good and bad in our society. But I see more growth, realization of potential and increases in quality of life for more people. I see that as good. I see more information and knowledge available for more people, and I think that is good.

Just because I do not see society in decline does not mean, in any way, that I see it as perfect or without problems.

bump

Yeah, it was this line of talk that had me put her on ignore. I'm on 4 discussion type forum boards and I have a grand total of 2 people on ignore. This bitch crossed the line and seemed to be glad of it.

It is a reflection of yourself when you call a woman a "b*tch". Shame, Shame.

 

[garyganu]

The right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness do not have a damn thing to do with your la de la da "spiritual principles".
Americans enjoy them because OF THE LAW and the blood spilled in protection of them.
Nothing spiritual whatsoever.

The following is an excerpt from the "Declaration of Independence" Which our constitution was based on:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

Your ignorance proves my point about the brainwashing that occurs in today's education system.

And the Declaration of Independence has what place in our legal system?

Also, would you care to share ANY evidence that the writers of that line intended for it to mean the Christian God?

No, not a Christian God. But the belief in a "higher power" is almost universal throughout the history of humanity.

 

[BDBoop]

bump

Yeah, it was this line of talk that had me put her on ignore. I'm on 4 discussion type forum boards and I have a grand total of 2 people on ignore. This bitch crossed the line and seemed to be glad of it.

It is a reflection of yourself when you call a woman a "b*tch". Shame, Shame.

Oh, bull.

 

[WinterBorn]

bump

Yeah, it was this line of talk that had me put her on ignore. I'm on 4 discussion type forum boards and I have a grand total of 2 people on ignore. This bitch crossed the line and seemed to be glad of it.

It is a reflection of yourself when you call a woman a "b*tch". Shame, Shame.

When a woman says that according to me "it's GOOD that children are sexualized, it's GOOD that people are promiscuous, it's GOOD that more children are abused than ever before, it's GOOD that the sex slave market is booming, it's GOOD that abortion rates are higher, it's GOOD that divorce rates and teen pregnancy rates are higher" and refuses to back off that stance, her being called a bitch is actually rather tame.

I have no problem treating women well. I am a chivalrous and gentlemanly guy. But that does not mean all women are immune from scorn.

 

[BDBoop]

Yeah, it was this line of talk that had me put her on ignore. I'm on 4 discussion type forum boards and I have a grand total of 2 people on ignore. This bitch crossed the line and seemed to be glad of it.

It is a reflection of yourself when you call a woman a "b*tch". Shame, Shame.

When a woman says that according to me "it's GOOD that children are sexualized, it's GOOD that people are promiscuous, it's GOOD that more children are abused than ever before, it's GOOD that the sex slave market is booming, it's GOOD that abortion rates are higher, it's GOOD that divorce rates and teen pregnancy rates are higher" and refuses to back off that stance, her being called a bitch is actually rather tame.

I have no problem treating women well. I am a chivalrous and gentlemanly guy. But that does not mean all women are immune from scorn.

Especially when she is banking on people being well-bred enough not to stoop to her level.

 

[koshergrl]

Yeah, it was this line of talk that had me put her on ignore. I'm on 4 discussion type forum boards and I have a grand total of 2 people on ignore. This bitch crossed the line and seemed to be glad of it.

It is a reflection of yourself when you call a woman a "b*tch". Shame, Shame.

When a woman says that according to me "it's GOOD that children are sexualized, it's GOOD that people are promiscuous, it's GOOD that more children are abused than ever before, it's GOOD that the sex slave market is booming, it's GOOD that abortion rates are higher, it's GOOD that divorce rates and teen pregnancy rates are higher" and refuses to back off that stance, her being called a bitch is actually rather tame.

I have no problem treating women well. I am a chivalrous and gentlemanly guy. But that does not mean all women are immune from scorn.

and they're worthy of scorn if they dare to defend vulnerable children.

Got it.

BTW, you feel good about the increase in abortion? You don't see that as a problem?

How about the increase in child abuse and crime?

Never mind, you already said you did.

 

[garyganu]

total bullshit!
if you went to college you must have missed the most important reason for going.
TO open minds to possibilities..not to indoctrinate them into a one dimensional pov.
if 80% of university students lose their faith,then logically there are major flaws in that faith if knowledge has the power to kill it.

College students are "YOUNG MINDS FULL OF MUSH". They are easily indoctrinated

A majority of Americans believe in God, while a minority of college graduates do not believe in God

A majority of Americans are against gay marriage, yet a majority of college graduates are in favor of gay marriage.

Most Americans believe in enforcing our immigration laws. A majority of college graduate believe in amnesty.

Most American believe that the Palestinians are terrorist, bigots. Most college graduates s.believe that Palestinians are freedom fighters.

Most Americans believe that the Earth's climate is cyclical. A majority of College students believe in man-made global warming.

Most Americans believe that abortion is murder. A majority of college graduates believe that abortion is a woman's right.

I can go on and on.

Again, you are confusing cause and effect.

The fact that these things happen at roughly the same time does not mean the university causes them. In fact, most universities try to maintain a somewhat neutral stance, politically. It keeps their funding going.

Absolutely not true. most university professors are liberals and impart these beliefs on their students. Conservatives and Christians are ostracized on college campuses.

 

[koshergrl]

Winterporn and Pooper allegedly *ignore* me for the same reason...they don't want to have to answer for their appalling lack of humanity, and they don't like to speak to the facts.

 

[WinterBorn]

The following is an excerpt from the "Declaration of Independence" Which our constitution was based on:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

Your ignorance proves my point about the brainwashing that occurs in today's education system.

And the Declaration of Independence has what place in our legal system?

Also, would you care to share ANY evidence that the writers of that line intended for it to mean the Christian God?

No, not a Christian God. But the belief in a "higher power" is almost universal in the history of humanity.

And the DoI has what place in our legal system?

 

[garyganu]

A majority of Americans believe in God, while a minority of college graduates do not believe in God

If a minority of college graduates do not believe in God, then that would mean that a majority do believe in God.

Therefore...

A majority of Americans believe in God and a majority of college graduates do believe in God

A majority of Americans are against gay marriage, yet a majority of college graduates are in favor of gay marriage.

Polls show that the perceptions of the acceptability of homosexual relationships have been shifting. What can be said is a majority of voters have voted against Same-sex Civil Marriage in the past.

Not to worry, we are nearing a time when a majority of voters will be approving it at the ballot box. The first good shot is Maine this year, with Washington a close second.



>>>>

Obviously the first quote is a typographical error.

Your response to my second quote proves my point that our youth are being indoctrinated.