A Reasonable Solution To The Gay Marriage Debate

[garyganu]

We have a functional, healthy society. The idealized stereotype you seem to pine for never existed. Examples of societies that are dysfunctional are Haiti and Somalia. Old people railing against how society has plunged into moral decay is as old as the hills themselves.

Blacks are no longer second class citizens like they were 50 years ago. Nor are women. It was great to be me, a middle-aged white guy. Kinda sucked to be everyone else. Women knew their place and I never had to be worried about negroes. Yeah, let's go back to that, an uptight, repressive society. That's healthy and functional.

Opponents of integration argued that we couldn't give blacks full rights because they were less civilized, and they would steal all the white women. History will judge the opponents of gay rights the same way we judge the opponents of full suffrage and integration today.

Zimbabwe was functional until things suddenly changed politically, now it is dysfunctional. The same can be said for many nations. The US is in a precarious position.

I kinda doubt we are in the same boat as Zimbabwe.

Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece also fell into dysfunction. The Soviet Union also fell. Germany was destroyed. Modern Greece is on the verge of dysfunction.

 

[garyganu]

Most universities certainly do not do that.
Some do but not most.
You have now stooped to bull shitting because you have lost the debate.

Most of the major influential universities have "sex week" including Harvard and Yale.

I found info on 5 having it. Brown, Northwestern, Yale, Harvard, and Univ of kentucky.

Unless you have links showing significantly more, your claim to "most" is bogus.

Those are some of the most influential universities in the country.

 

[WinterBorn]

Zimbabwe was functional until things suddenly changed politically, now it is dysfunctional. The same can be said for many nations. The US is in a precarious position.

I kinda doubt we are in the same boat as Zimbabwe.

Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece also fell into dysfunction.

Yes, they did.

But that still does not mean anything where the US is concerned. The idea that allowing gays to marry would cause the collapse of an entire nation is ridiculous.

The conservatives claim that homosexuals make up only 1.5% of the population. There are 311 million people in the country. Even if every single homosexual married, that would still be only 2.3 million weddings.

To put it in persepctive, by the 1.5% claim, there are 4.66 million homosexuals in the USA. The population of New York City is 8.1 million. Do you think if half the peope in NY tried they could destroy the US?

 

[WinterBorn]

Most of the major influential universities have "sex week" including Harvard and Yale.

I found info on 5 having it. Brown, Northwestern, Yale, Harvard, and Univ of kentucky.

Unless you have links showing significantly more, your claim to "most" is bogus.

Those are some of the most influential universities in the country.

Totally irrelevant.

First you claimed "most universities". Then you claimed "Most of the major influential universities".

Now you claim that these 5 are some of the most influential? What happened to "most".

Also, since Yale's president cancelled the event, and UK is on no one's list of "most influential universities", you have only 3 left that could be considered seriously influential.

So the list does not include Princeton, William & Mary, Cornell, Dartmouth, MIT, Emory, Tulane, Stanford, and Temple. So I just listed 3 highly influential universities for every one that has a sex week.

 

[koshergrl]

I kinda doubt we are in the same boat as Zimbabwe.

Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece also fell into dysfunction.

Yes, they did.

But that still does not mean anything where the US is concerned. The idea that allowing gays to marry would cause the collapse of an entire nation is ridiculous.

The conservatives claim that homosexuals make up only 1.5% of the population. There are 311 million people in the country. Even if every single homosexual married, that would still be only 2.3 million weddings.

To put it in persepctive, by the 1.5% claim, there are 4.66 million homosexuals in the USA. The population of New York City is 8.1 million. Do you think if half the peope in NY tried they could destroy the US?

No-fault divorce and the sexual revolution have certainly put their mark on us...

Homosexual marriage will just further take us down the path we started when we determined to let child molesters, Nazis and rapists dictate to us what is "normal" and "acceptable" in terms of raising and educating our children.

 

[WinterBorn]

Gary, this is why I continually ask for evidence or links.

First you said "most universities". Then you claimed "Most of the major influential universities".

It turns out 3 or 4 universities have Sex Week. Sounds like wild exaggeration to me.

 

[WinterBorn]

As of this post we have 127 pages of conservatives exhibiting the ignorance and hate and not one logical, factual, objective shred of evidence supporting denying same-sex couples equal protection of the law.

Very true.

 

[koshergrl]

Yes, well, Winterporn thinks a 50 percent abortion rate is indicative of the success of abortion and a healthy society, so what he thinks doesn't hold a lot of water.

 

[koshergrl]

As of this post we have 127 pages of conservatives exhibiting the ignorance and hate and not one logical, factual, objective shred of evidence supporting denying same-sex couples equal protection of the law.

Very true.

Lie.

What we have are progressive extremists ignoring the facts that were posted, and pretending they don't exist.

 

[daws101]

This is one of the fundamental differences between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives seek to "restore America". Liberals seek to "change America".

restore America to what? some fantasy time that never existed?
what so amusing about that statement is the people who use it display a"willfull ignorance" of history.
pick a time in our history when things closer to life, liberty, happiness, justice for all and equality?
OK choose ..
this should be entertaining.

My life and my perspective begin in the 1950's. Things were much better before "The Day The Music Died". Bye Bye miss American pie.

your point? the 50's were only better if you were a white upper middle class male and over 21.
your pespective is to put it nicely, narrow.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

As of this post we have 127 pages of conservatives exhibiting the ignorance and hate and not one logical, factual, objective shred of evidence supporting denying same-sex couples equal protection of the law.

Very true.

Lie.

What we have are progressive extremists ignoring the facts that were posted, and pretending they don't exist.

Not in this thread - or the 600 other threads on the topic, for that matter.

 

[daws101]

Oh that is absolute bullshit.

But, if that is the way you want to look at it, then you must like domestic abuse, poverty, death from cancer, cureable diseases running rampant, segments of society being kept down, and the plethora of other problems that have been addressed by these changes.

No, I never said society was all peachy keen and without problems. You lied again. I simply pointed out that I do not see society in decline, and especially not due to gay marriage (which is what we are actually discussing in between your lies and strawman arguments).

You want it to be black & white. You want all the changes to be either good or bad. I am realistic enough to see there are problems with all change, but that change is inevitable. I don't scream about the decline in society unless there is actually a decline in society.

You claimed there were exponential increases in crime. There were several posts (with links) that showed relatively small increases, and plenty of decreases.

You claimed there were exponential increases in teen pregnancy, abortion, STD, ect ect. And link showed different. (From no less an authority than the CDC)

And you're lying.

The CDC shows EXPONDENTIAL increases in teen pregnancy, abortion, STDS and murder since the advent of the "sexual revolution".

You dishonest pieces of shit keep pretending the slight decrease in the last 10 years negates the fact that for 40 years prior to that, the rates of abortion, child murder, child abuse, divorce, teen pregnancy, and STDs climbed steadily. The last 10 years decrease doesn't represent overall decreases at all.

We have solved the problem of hunger in the US, at least for now. However, that has happened many times in the past. The cycles of feast and famine repeat throughout history.

bullshit! Hunger in America: Key Findings
Hunger in America: Key Findings
•The 37 million Americans served annually by Feeding America include nearly 14 million children and nearly 3 million seniors.
•Each week, approximately 5.7 million people receive emergency food assistance from an agency served by a Feeding America member. This is a 27percent increase over numbers reported in Hunger in America 2006, which reported that 4.5 million people were served each week.
•These numbers are based on surveys conducted at emergency feeding centers, such as soup kitchens and food pantries, but do not factor in many individuals also served at non-emergency locations, such as Kids Cafe programs and senior centers.
Client Households

•76 percent (10 million) of client households served are food insecure, meaning they do not always know where they will find their next meal.
•36 percent of these client households are experiencing food insecurity with hunger, meaning they are sometimes completely without a source of food.
•79 percent (11 million) of households with children served are also food insecure.
•Of the 37 million people the Feeding America network serves:
•70 percent of households have incomes below the federal poverty line.
•The average monthly income for client households is $940.
•36 percent of households have one or more adults who is working.
•10 percent of client households are homeless.
Tough Choices

Many of the client households served by Feeding America food banks report that their household incomes are inadequate to cover their basic household expenses.

•46 percent of client households served report having to choose between paying for utilities or heating fuel and food.
•39 percent of client households said they had to choose between paying for rent or a mortgage and food.
•34 percent of client households report having to choose between paying for medical bills and food.
•35 percent of client households must choose between transportation and food.
One in four client households (24 percent) do not have health insurance and nearly half of our adult clients report that they have unpaid medical and hospital bills.

Thirty percent of households report having at least one member of their household in poor health.

Hunger in America: Key Findings

 

[koshergrl]

Yes, in this thread. And in every one of the other threads as well.

You'll note that winterporn determined he would ignore me after I called him on the fact he claimed our only societal issue right now is a slight economic downturn.

Which means he doesn't view increased illegitimate teenaged births, increased abortion, increased child abuse, increased child murder, increased STDs as issues.

Kinda interesting, I think.

 

[daws101]

How can you say that our society is doing fine when the government borrows 43 cents for every dollar that it spends. This is unsustainable and nobody seems to to think that this is a critical problem that will destroy us unless we reduce the size and cost of government.

Also, American universities are a HUGE part of our decline. They promote an agenda that is anti-american, anti-God and anti-family. Without God, family and country, our nation will cease to exist. American universities do MORE HARM THAN GOOD.

There is nothing new about yellow journalism, However today's American culture is no longer able to discern the truth from lies because they have lost their moral compass.

is it just me, or does this just scream of indoctrination and a sense of entitlement.
more importantly it stinks of an assumed Superior moral agenda based on the unprovable premise of a god.

It is just plain wrong to not live within your means. Besides, it is unsustainable.

dodge.

 

[koshergrl]

And you're lying.

The CDC shows EXPONDENTIAL increases in teen pregnancy, abortion, STDS and murder since the advent of the "sexual revolution".

You dishonest pieces of shit keep pretending the slight decrease in the last 10 years negates the fact that for 40 years prior to that, the rates of abortion, child murder, child abuse, divorce, teen pregnancy, and STDs climbed steadily. The last 10 years decrease doesn't represent overall decreases at all.

We have solved the problem of hunger in the US, at least for now. However, that has happened many times in the past. The cycles of feast and famine repeat throughout history.

bullshit! Hunger in America: Key Findings
Hunger in America: Key Findings
•The 37 million Americans served annually by Feeding America include nearly 14 million children and nearly 3 million seniors.
•Each week, approximately 5.7 million people receive emergency food assistance from an agency served by a Feeding America member. This is a 27percent increase over numbers reported in Hunger in America 2006, which reported that 4.5 million people were served each week.
•These numbers are based on surveys conducted at emergency feeding centers, such as soup kitchens and food pantries, but do not factor in many individuals also served at non-emergency locations, such as Kids Cafe programs and senior centers.
Client Households

•76 percent (10 million) of client households served are food insecure, meaning they do not always know where they will find their next meal.
•36 percent of these client households are experiencing food insecurity with hunger, meaning they are sometimes completely without a source of food.
•79 percent (11 million) of households with children served are also food insecure.
•Of the 37 million people the Feeding America network serves:
•70 percent of households have incomes below the federal poverty line.
•The average monthly income for client households is $940.
•36 percent of households have one or more adults who is working.
•10 percent of client households are homeless.
Tough Choices

Many of the client households served by Feeding America food banks report that their household incomes are inadequate to cover their basic household expenses.

•46 percent of client households served report having to choose between paying for utilities or heating fuel and food.
•39 percent of client households said they had to choose between paying for rent or a mortgage and food.
•34 percent of client households report having to choose between paying for medical bills and food.
•35 percent of client households must choose between transportation and food.
One in four client households (24 percent) do not have health insurance and nearly half of our adult clients report that they have unpaid medical and hospital bills.

Thirty percent of households report having at least one member of their household in poor health.

Hunger in America: Key Findings

That's an interesting bit of propaganda. Where'd you get it? Link doesn't work.

 

[daws101]

A very small percentage of gay men are interested in raising children. Bi-sexual women often raise children from previous broken marriages. The contribution of gay couples to raising families is negligible. Also, children benefit more from opposite-sex parents. man and women complement each other and keep each other in check. Gay unions are missing balance.

The universities are systematically destroying their student's faith in God. 80% of university students lose their faith in God before they graduate. It is very arrogant to teach kids that there is NO higher power. This defies reason and commonsense. It also leaves kids vulnerable to the belief that the government is their highest authority.

total bullshit!
if you went to college you must have missed the most important reason for going.
TO open minds to possibilities..not to indoctrinate them into a one dimensional pov.
if 80% of university students lose their faith,then logically there are major flaws in that faith if knowledge has the power to kill it.

College students are "YOUNG MINDS FULL OF MUSH". They are easily indoctrinated

A majority of Americans believe in God, while a minority of college graduates do not believe in God

A majority of Americans are against gay marriage, yet a majority of college graduates are in favor of gay marriage.

Most Americans believe in enforcing our immigration laws. A majority of college graduate believe in amnesty.

Most American believe that the Palestinians are terrorist, bigots. Most college graduates s.believe that Palestinians are freedom fighters.

Most Americans believe that the Earth's climate is cyclical. A majority of College students believe in man-made global warming.

Most Americans believe that abortion is murder. A majority of college graduates believe that abortion is a woman's right.

I can go on and on.

bigoted ranting will do that!

 

[koshergrl]

total bullshit!
if you went to college you must have missed the most important reason for going.
TO open minds to possibilities..not to indoctrinate them into a one dimensional pov.
if 80% of university students lose their faith,then logically there are major flaws in that faith if knowledge has the power to kill it.

College students are "YOUNG MINDS FULL OF MUSH". They are easily indoctrinated

A majority of Americans believe in God, while a minority of college graduates do not believe in God

A majority of Americans are against gay marriage, yet a majority of college graduates are in favor of gay marriage.

Most Americans believe in enforcing our immigration laws. A majority of college graduate believe in amnesty.

Most American believe that the Palestinians are terrorist, bigots. Most college graduates s.believe that Palestinians are freedom fighters.

Most Americans believe that the Earth's climate is cyclical. A majority of College students believe in man-made global warming.

Most Americans believe that abortion is murder. A majority of college graduates believe that abortion is a woman's right.

I can go on and on.

bigoted ranting will do that!

You would know, loon.

 

[daws101]

We have solved the problem of hunger in the US, at least for now. However, that has happened many times in the past. The cycles of feast and famine repeat throughout history.

bullshit! Hunger in America: Key Findings
Hunger in America: Key Findings
•The 37 million Americans served annually by Feeding America include nearly 14 million children and nearly 3 million seniors.
•Each week, approximately 5.7 million people receive emergency food assistance from an agency served by a Feeding America member. This is a 27percent increase over numbers reported in Hunger in America 2006, which reported that 4.5 million people were served each week.
•These numbers are based on surveys conducted at emergency feeding centers, such as soup kitchens and food pantries, but do not factor in many individuals also served at non-emergency locations, such as Kids Cafe programs and senior centers.
Client Households

•76 percent (10 million) of client households served are food insecure, meaning they do not always know where they will find their next meal.
•36 percent of these client households are experiencing food insecurity with hunger, meaning they are sometimes completely without a source of food.
•79 percent (11 million) of households with children served are also food insecure.
•Of the 37 million people the Feeding America network serves:
•70 percent of households have incomes below the federal poverty line.
•The average monthly income for client households is $940.
•36 percent of households have one or more adults who is working.
•10 percent of client households are homeless.
Tough Choices

Many of the client households served by Feeding America food banks report that their household incomes are inadequate to cover their basic household expenses.

•46 percent of client households served report having to choose between paying for utilities or heating fuel and food.
•39 percent of client households said they had to choose between paying for rent or a mortgage and food.
•34 percent of client households report having to choose between paying for medical bills and food.
•35 percent of client households must choose between transportation and food.
One in four client households (24 percent) do not have health insurance and nearly half of our adult clients report that they have unpaid medical and hospital bills.

Thirty percent of households report having at least one member of their household in poor health.

Hunger in America: Key Findings

That's an interesting bit of propaganda. Where'd you get it? Link doesn't work.

either you're stupid or lying, the link works just fine..and it not propaganda.
it is however more proof of highly tenuous grip on reality!

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Yes, in this thread. And in every one of the other threads as well.

You'll note that winterporn determined he would ignore me after I called him on the fact he claimed our only societal issue right now is a slight economic downturn.

Which means he doesn't view increased illegitimate teenaged births, increased abortion, increased child abuse, increased child murder, increased STDs as issues.

Kinda interesting, I think.

Cite them again, or indicate the post number.

And no, ‘studies’ from Regent ‘University’ are not objective, factual, documented evidence.

 

[daws101]

Obviously the first quote is a typographical error.

Your response to my second quote proves my point that our youth are being indoctrinated.

Did you go to college? Please tell us exactly HOW these indoctrinations take place. I must have missed being dragged into a dimly lit room and brainwashed into believing a certain way.

Please tell us what these universities are doing, besides giving these young adults information and letting them make their own decisions.

Here is an interesting article, there are hundreds more just like it. Just google the topic:

Systematic Practice of Political Indoctrination at Universities and Colleges - Atlas Shrugs

interesting
for being bias and supporting an agenda. the term objective evidence mean anything to you..?