Zone1 atheists don't have proof of God... because they refuse to look at the proof

[Hollie]

Bishop Ushher did not understand Hebrew and based his calculations on what he thought the translation into English signified.

Second, religious belief is that God is Creator, and there it stops. Religion doesn't t go searching for how God created because the purpose of religion is not to explore the physical realm but the best way to live with each other in this realm. If someone want to explore the physical realm further, not a problem, any more than if someone wants to explore new and tasty ways to serve crickets. People of faith believe there is more to life and to living than simply surviving and learning about the physical. We believe there are two realms--the physical and the spiritual.

Bishop Ushher aside, the entirety of the Bible is ultimately translation of tales and fables authored by men largely unknown and written decades / a century and more after the alleged events.

A great many events in the Bible hinge on incidents that simply do not occur in nature. This is easily reconciled if one accepts that (a) Biblical authors engaged in hyperbole, i.e., exaggeration for literary effect, and (b) the stories of supernatural creation, of Noah's Ark, men rising from the dead, etc. etc. are metaphorical.

The typical religionist has a problem with the Bible being a collection of metaphors.

 

[Hollie]

Power and wealth are the causes of war, not religion.

No greater love has anyone than to lay down their lives for a friend. That is why the rich and powerful recognize the importance of getting people to love their country...except in our case when the powers that be no longer want us to love our country so that we simply lie down and accept what they have planned for us. Is giving in an apt description of peace and love?

No greater anger and vindictive nature can describe events in the Bible committed by Yahweh. He is the most evil villain in all of literature.

And yes, the religious ruling class knew full well the power they wielded with the imposition of fear. Tell a group that the punishment for not believing as the're told is eternal torment and you will create a compliant class.

 

[Hollie]

I'm quite content with Christianity.

That makes my life worth living. .

 

[Meriweather]

You truly can't help yourself, I know. Pomposity simply oozes from your pores of its own steam.

Then again you don't know me. People who do know me have told me I am the exact opposite. It has been said that what one sees in others is actually a reflection of what one sees in themselves.

Perhaps consider addressing the topic being discussing rather than turning it into a discussion about me? I am not that interesting, but the topic is. That is how I see it.

 

[nomadic5]

Then again you don't know me. People who do know me have told me I am the exact opposite. It has been said that what one sees in others is actually a reflection of what one sees in themselves.

Perhaps consider addressing the topic being discussing rather than turning it into a discussion about me? I am not that interesting, but the topic is. That is how I see it.

all humans are interesting. .. well, all those who aren't flaming libs anyhow.. those folks are predictable and boring and... etc..

But yeh, while I've disagreed w/ things you've said, "pompous" was not the word I ever came up with to describe you. Ironically, it describes the accuser.. and libs

 

[Meriweather]

A great many events in the Bible hinge on incidents that simply do not occur in nature. This is easily reconciled if one accepts that (a) Biblical authors engaged in hyperbole, i.e., exaggeration for literary effect, and (b) the stories of supernatural creation, of Noah's Ark, men rising from the dead, etc. etc. are metaphorical.

The typical religionist has a problem with the Bible being a collection of metaphors.

Exactly! Remember, the majority of believers who do not take every story literally. Any middle school student who is paying attention in their English class can easily identify in the Bible what is a Just So story, fables, folklore, myths, legends, parables, poetry, plays from historical (albeit perhaps one-sided) accounts, law, and proverbs.

All these accounts, no matter how written, presents themes and lessons. Those are the truths believers see in the Bible. People truly interested in Old Testament accounts should read commentaries by rabbi scholars.

 

[Meriweather]

No greater anger and vindictive nature can describe events in the Bible committed by Yahweh. He is the most evil villain in all of literature.

Again, rabbis best explain this. Briefly, they see a just God being angry at injustice, but they also can point out that God does not experience emotions as we do. In Hebrew the idea of fairness fighting against what is unfair, justice fighting against injustice comes through more clearly. It is justice that is angry with injustice; fairness angry with what is not fair. None of this comes across well in English or to anyone not raised in Hebrew history and culture. They get tired of explaining it because so few listen.

 

[Meriweather]

And yes, the religious ruling class knew full well the power they wielded with the imposition of fear. Tell a group that the punishment for not believing as the're told is eternal torment and you will create a compliant class.

This is not news to people who believe. We figured it out a long time ago, which is why the rich and powerful have been turning to new ways of instilling fear. In school we called this Henny Penny effect.

Get people to believe the sky is falling or climate is changing or all are doomed to hell. All anyone has to do is study the sky, the climate, the Bible and reality emerges for those who have eyes to see. That does not mean that all the Henny Pennys need to run screaming from the Bible, the climate, hell, etc.--and a few always will.

 

[Meriweather]

But yeh, while I've disagreed w/ things you've said, "pompous" was not the word I ever came up with to describe you.

Grin. Most 'real life' people assure me I am persistent and stubborn, which they see as a good trait when I am on their side and downright frustrating when I am not. So I get that. My younger sister swears that when she was a baby in a crib her first thought regarding me was, "She is so stubborn!" (I don't think she meant it as a compliment.)

 

[nomadic5]

Grin. Most 'real life' people assure me I am persistent and stubborn, which they see as a good trait when I am on their side and downright frustrating when I am not. So I get that. My younger sister swears that when she was a baby in a crib her first thought regarding me was, "She is so stubborn!" (I don't think she meant it as a compliment.)

you are not male?

all this time I thought you were...

and that is kind of a compliment because ... well, I think of this one post but maybe I shouldn't go there... you may get insulted..

 

[Grumblenuts]

Then again you don't know me. People who do know me have told me I am the exact opposite. It has been said that what one sees in others is actually a reflection of what one sees in themselves.

Perhaps consider addressing the topic being discussing rather than turning it into a discussion about me? I am not that interesting, but the topic is. That is how I see it.

The topic is sophomoric and boring. But if you could be bothered to look, you'd notice that it's about Hollie, me, and many many others here. The topic fallaciously accuses us of some sort of bullshit.. and what are you doing? Same.. as usual. Piling on.. while playing victim.. Le . According to you, the title attacks members of your own family, remember? Why aren't you screaming bloody murder at the OP?

Why not yell "It has been said that what one sees in others is actually a reflection of what one sees in themselves" at the OP and yourself while you're at it? There's a popular single word for that now --> "projection." Practice that in your mirror, pointing your smarmy trigger finger each time may help to really drive it home..!

 

[Hollie]

Exactly! Remember, the majority of believers who do not take every story literally. Any middle school student who is paying attention in their English class can easily identify in the Bible what is a Just So story, fables, folklore, myths, legends, parables, poetry, plays from historical (albeit perhaps one-sided) accounts, law, and proverbs.

All these accounts, no matter how written, presents themes and lessons. Those are the truths believers see in the Bible. People truly interested in Old Testament accounts should read commentaries by rabbi scholars.

I hope you will cc us on your email to most believers explaining that the contents of the Bible amounts to stories, fables, folklore, myths, legends, parables, poetry, plays, etc.

 

[Grumblenuts]

you are not male?

Careful.. He tends to swing both ways!

 

[Meriweather]

you are not male?

all this time I thought you were...

and that is kind of a compliment because ... well, I think of this one post but maybe I shouldn't go there... you may get insulted..

Very hard to insult me because I do respect what other people feel.

 

[Hollie]

U7This is not news to people who believe. We figured it out a long time ago, which is why the rich and powerful have been turning to new ways of instilling fear. In school we called this Henny Penny effect.

Get people to believe the sky is falling or climate is changing or all are doomed to hell. All anyone has to do is study the sky, the climate, the Bible and reality emerges for those who have eyes to see. That does not mean that all the Henny Pennys need to run screaming from the Bible, the climate, hell, etc.--and a few always will.

Your comments perfectly reflects the idea that the Bible should not be read as having divine origin. If one were to take the Bible as being of divine authorship. (which we know it was not), one would expect logical consistency among its different volumes. We see no such consistency and no reason to accept the writings to be literally true. If you take the Bible as a compilation of writings by many different individuals compiled over one hundred years or more, then the Bible becomes no more or less important than Homer's Iliad or Aesop's fables.

When we read such fables as Joshua and the sun standing still, the rational interpretation is that the person who wrote the fable really thought that the sun moved (then, many did) and that Joshua had made it stop. Whether the authors of those stories believed the incidents to be true doesn't mean I or anyone else, should accept those accounts literally.

 

[Meriweather]

I hope you will cc us on your email to most believers explaining that the contents of the Bible amounts to stories, fables, folklore, myths, legends, parables, poetry, plays, etc.

Email? For religious discussions I go to religion forums or Bible study. Are you imagining I email believers? Almost all my emails have to do with school and lesson plans in English, science, history and PE.

 

[Meriweather]

Your comments perfectly reflects the idea that the Bible should not be read as having divine origin. If one were to take the Bible as being of divine authorship. (which we know it was not), one would expect logical consistency among its different volumes. We see no such consistency and no reason to accept the writings to be literally true. If you take the Bible as a compilation of writings by many different individuals compiled over one hundred years or more, then the Bible becomes no more or less important than Homer's Iliad or Aesop's fables.

Most of us believe the Bible was written by man, inspired by God. The Bible is best described as a library of books authored by ancient man who wished to pass their learning and wisdom along to future generations.

 

[Meriweather]

then the Bible becomes no more or less important than Homer's Iliad or Aesop's fables.

I've always loved Aesop's fables, and the Iliad is great as well! The difference between those much loved stories and the Bible, is that the Bible talks about God in our midst and other people's experiences with God. My own experience of God is the reason I began to delve more deeply into the Old Testament, because those stories simply did not match up with my own experience. When I started learning a bit of Hebrew and reading rabbinical commentaries, it was amazing how the two went hand-in-hand.

I get why some people look askance at the Bible, I do. But when seriously studied (along with Biblical cultures, history, and languages) it is an amazing collection of written work.

 

[Meriweather]

When we read such fables as Joshua and the sun standing still, the rational interpretation is that the person who wrote the fable really thought that the sun moved (then, many did) and that Joshua had made it stop. Whether the authors of those stories believed the incidents to be true doesn't mean I or anyone else, should accept those accounts literally.

Again, the majority don't take them literally. Our own expression of "Time stood still" is a great comparison to people saying the sun stopped moving. It is so easy to understand how people felt that day....

 

[Hollie]

I've always loved Aesop's fables, and the Iliad is great as well! The difference between those much loved stories and the Bible, is that the Bible talks about God in our midst and other people's experiences with God. My own experience of God is the reason I began to delve more deeply into the Old Testament, because those stories simply did not match up with my own experience. When I started learning a bit of Hebrew and reading rabbinical commentaries, it was amazing how the two went hand-in-hand.

I get why some people look askance at the Bible, I do. But when seriously studied (along with Biblical cultures, history, and languages) it is an amazing collection of written work.

The Bible may talk about God in our midst as it talks about a 600 year old man piloting a yacht crammed full of animals.

As we may agree that much of the Bible amounts to stories, fables, folklore, myths, legends, parables, poetry, plays, etc., why now introduce a supernatural entity moving around among us?