Beautiful Black Ballerina

[ChrisL]

Honestly, I think some of the ballerinas are too thin, but that is what they are looking for in a ballerina. Just like in Hollywood, you won't get the role if they don't feel you are going to fit.

 

[ChrisL]

Because, these are the body types that are going to be the most fit for this type of performance. They are looking for extreme flexibility, this is the body type that would tend to have that capability. Also, they don't want a ballerina with big breasts or a big bum because then people would be focusing on that and not on the beauty of the ballet.

What does that have to do with someone telling her she was "not the right color"? Who gave anyone the idea that those body types are most fit for that type of performance?

I don't remember hearing someone telling her she wasn't the right color. I heard them talk about her body.

She heard it. Are you claiming she is lying? One of her friends heard the same thing. However, back to the body. Who determined what body type was most fit for that type of performance? This is exactly one of the things she is talking about BTW. This supposed body type is based on what? There is no specific body type other than one that can execute all the required movements. What you are referring to is aesthetics which we all know is subjective.

I don't know what she heard. All I know, is that I didn't hear any of the companies mention race as a reason. There are plenty of Asian ballerinas . . . because they also tend to be small boned and tiny.

She said thats what she heard. Did you not listen to the interview. How would you hear any company mention race as a reason if you are not her? All Asian ballerinas are not Black so I dont get your point on that. You never answered my question about who determined the perfect body type and why they were correct?

Well, if the reason was racism, why would they be hiring Asian ballerinas? Or do you think racism is only against black people?

 

[Asclepias]

Why does that have to be the typical body type?

Because, these are the body types that are going to be the most fit for this type of performance. They are looking for extreme flexibility, this is the body type that would tend to have that capability. Also, they don't want a ballerina with big breasts or a big bum because then people would be focusing on that and not on the beauty of the ballet.

What does that have to do with someone telling her she was "not the right color"? Who gave anyone the idea that those body types are most fit for that type of performance?

The people who would hire a ballerina for certain roles would be deciding???

Not that there aren't exceptions, but most of the time the more petite women are going to be more flexible. That is just a body mechanics issue, not a racial one.

What people are they? What race? No petite has nothing to do with flexibility.

Sorry, but it does, as does youth. Facts.

No it doesnt. I have seen muscular people with far more flexibility than petite people in martial arts.

 

[Asclepias]

She is very thin. Why would she cause a problem with being lifted?

Muscles. Muscle is actually heavier than fat.

Its not that much heavier. Besides her muscles are the same color as anyone elses.

But they are heavier. That's the point. Just because some people want to see this as a racial issue, that doesn't mean that it has anything to do with race according to the companies that didn't want to take her on. There is no guarantees of being hired, and it is incredibly competitive.

is this the standard "Black people are hallucinating" ideology at work here?

Since I haven't been able to read her rejection letters, then I don't know what the story is. Just because she thinks it's due to her color, does not mean that was the reason she was rejected. It could just be that she wasn't what they were looking for.

Its not because she thinks it. She was told that. Not to mention her friend also overheard someone say the same thing.

 

[Asclepias]

What does that have to do with someone telling her she was "not the right color"? Who gave anyone the idea that those body types are most fit for that type of performance?

I don't remember hearing someone telling her she wasn't the right color. I heard them talk about her body.

She heard it. Are you claiming she is lying? One of her friends heard the same thing. However, back to the body. Who determined what body type was most fit for that type of performance? This is exactly one of the things she is talking about BTW. This supposed body type is based on what? There is no specific body type other than one that can execute all the required movements. What you are referring to is aesthetics which we all know is subjective.

I don't know what she heard. All I know, is that I didn't hear any of the companies mention race as a reason. There are plenty of Asian ballerinas . . . because they also tend to be small boned and tiny.

She said thats what she heard. Did you not listen to the interview. How would you hear any company mention race as a reason if you are not her? All Asian ballerinas are not Black so I dont get your point on that. You never answered my question about who determined the perfect body type and why they were correct?

Well, if the reason was racism, why would they be hiring Asian ballerinas? Or do you think racism is only against black people?

You dont have to hate Asians to be racist towards Blacks. Racists only need to think one race is superior over the other to fit the definition.

 

[Asclepias]

Honestly, I think some of the ballerinas are too thin, but that is what they are looking for in a ballerina. Just like in Hollywood, you won't get the role if they don't feel you are going to fit.

Who is looking for this look? What race are these people?

 

[ChrisL]

Here is an article about a WHITE ballerina who was criticized as well . . . for being too heavy. So, some companies are going to stick with the very thin and tiny ballerinas. I think it has less to do with race, and more to do with size.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/13/the-ideal-ballerina/?_r=0

In a now infamous review, the New York Times dance critic Alastair Macaulay criticized the body of dancer Jenifer Ringer, who is cast as the Sugar Plum Fairy in “George Balanchine’s The Nutcracker” at the New York City Ballet. The dancer, Mr. Macaulay wrote, “looked as if she’d eaten one sugarplum too many.”

The comment triggered a storm of protest among readers and on the Internet. Mr. Macaulay defended his remarks with a thoughtful essay entitled “Judging the Bodies in Ballet.”

While I understand the general point made by Mr. Macaulay about the role of criticism, I am still searching for the extra pounds he spotted on Ms. Ringer, who clearly isn’t overweight by any standard. More important, I’m troubled by the suggestion that an emaciated dancer is somehow more pleasing to watch. To my eye, Ms. Ringer, who has talked openly about struggling with disordered eating, looks like the ideal ballerina — an athletic, graceful woman who dances with strength.

In an appearance on NBC’s “Today” show, Ms. Ringer said that she was initially hurt by the criticism, but she also notes that an ultra thin ballerina isn’t necessarily the ideal.

It’s a physical profession. We’re dancing all day long…. But if you’re too thin, you can’t do the job. That’s where people run into trouble. When I went through my eating disorders, I went through anorexia; when you’re weak, you can’t do the job, and you can’t perform it well.

As a dancer, I do put myself out there to be criticized, and my body is part of my art form. At the same time, I’m not overweight. I do have, I guess, a more womanly body type than the stereotypical ballerina, but that’s one of the wonderful things about the New York City Ballet. We have every body type you can imagine. We have tall, we have petite, we have athletic, we have womanly, we have waif-like. We have every body type out there. They can all dance like crazy. They are all gorgeous, and I think dance should be more of a celebration of that — seeing these beautiful women with these different bodies all dancing to this gorgeous music, and that’s what should be celebrated.

 

[ChrisL]

I don't remember hearing someone telling her she wasn't the right color. I heard them talk about her body.

She heard it. Are you claiming she is lying? One of her friends heard the same thing. However, back to the body. Who determined what body type was most fit for that type of performance? This is exactly one of the things she is talking about BTW. This supposed body type is based on what? There is no specific body type other than one that can execute all the required movements. What you are referring to is aesthetics which we all know is subjective.

I don't know what she heard. All I know, is that I didn't hear any of the companies mention race as a reason. There are plenty of Asian ballerinas . . . because they also tend to be small boned and tiny.

She said thats what she heard. Did you not listen to the interview. How would you hear any company mention race as a reason if you are not her? All Asian ballerinas are not Black so I dont get your point on that. You never answered my question about who determined the perfect body type and why they were correct?

Well, if the reason was racism, why would they be hiring Asian ballerinas? Or do you think racism is only against black people?

You dont have to hate Asians to be racist towards Blacks. Racists only need to think one race is superior over the other to fit the definition.

Well, I don't think that is the case at all. No one is saying that one type of body is superior over another. As you said earlier, that is subjective. However, that has been the status quo in this profession for a very long time, and I don't think it has to do with racism. It is more along the lines of the runway model industry where they prefer very thin women, so as not to take attention away from the performance and for other reasons too.

 

[Asclepias]

Here is an article about a WHITE ballerina who was criticized as well . . . for being too heavy. So, some companies are going to stick with the very thin and tiny ballerinas. I think it has less to do with race, and more to do with size.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/13/the-ideal-ballerina/?_r=0

In a now infamous review, the New York Times dance critic Alastair Macaulay criticized the body of dancer Jenifer Ringer, who is cast as the Sugar Plum Fairy in “George Balanchine’s The Nutcracker” at the New York City Ballet. The dancer, Mr. Macaulay wrote, “looked as if she’d eaten one sugarplum too many.”

The comment triggered a storm of protest among readers and on the Internet. Mr. Macaulay defended his remarks with a thoughtful essay entitled “Judging the Bodies in Ballet.”

While I understand the general point made by Mr. Macaulay about the role of criticism, I am still searching for the extra pounds he spotted on Ms. Ringer, who clearly isn’t overweight by any standard. More important, I’m troubled by the suggestion that an emaciated dancer is somehow more pleasing to watch. To my eye, Ms. Ringer, who has talked openly about struggling with disordered eating, looks like the ideal ballerina — an athletic, graceful woman who dances with strength.

In an appearance on NBC’s “Today” show, Ms. Ringer said that she was initially hurt by the criticism, but she also notes that an ultra thin ballerina isn’t necessarily the ideal.

It’s a physical profession. We’re dancing all day long…. But if you’re too thin, you can’t do the job. That’s where people run into trouble. When I went through my eating disorders, I went through anorexia; when you’re weak, you can’t do the job, and you can’t perform it well.

As a dancer, I do put myself out there to be criticized, and my body is part of my art form. At the same time, I’m not overweight. I do have, I guess, a more womanly body type than the stereotypical ballerina, but that’s one of the wonderful things about the New York City Ballet. We have every body type you can imagine. We have tall, we have petite, we have athletic, we have womanly, we have waif-like. We have every body type out there. They can all dance like crazy. They are all gorgeous, and I think dance should be more of a celebration of that — seeing these beautiful women with these different bodies all dancing to this gorgeous music, and that’s what should be celebrated.

White girls get criticized for being with Black men or not fitting the ideal look of white women all the time.

 

[Asclepias]

She heard it. Are you claiming she is lying? One of her friends heard the same thing. However, back to the body. Who determined what body type was most fit for that type of performance? This is exactly one of the things she is talking about BTW. This supposed body type is based on what? There is no specific body type other than one that can execute all the required movements. What you are referring to is aesthetics which we all know is subjective.

I don't know what she heard. All I know, is that I didn't hear any of the companies mention race as a reason. There are plenty of Asian ballerinas . . . because they also tend to be small boned and tiny.

She said thats what she heard. Did you not listen to the interview. How would you hear any company mention race as a reason if you are not her? All Asian ballerinas are not Black so I dont get your point on that. You never answered my question about who determined the perfect body type and why they were correct?

Well, if the reason was racism, why would they be hiring Asian ballerinas? Or do you think racism is only against black people?

You dont have to hate Asians to be racist towards Blacks. Racists only need to think one race is superior over the other to fit the definition.

Well, I don't think that is the case at all. No one is saying that one type of body is superior over another. As you said earlier, that is subjective. However, that has been the status quo in this profession for a very long time, and I don't think it has to do with racism. It is more along the lines of the runway model industry where they prefer very thin women, so as not to take attention away from the performance and for other reasons too.

Slavery was also the status quo for a long time. Is it possible that this idea is based on racial stereotypes? You used the modeling as an example. My curvy Black wife was told the same thing. They wanted her to lose weight down to 105 lbs and she is 5'8". They also wanted her to lighten her skin. Are you really that indoctrinated you dont see the racism?

 

[ChrisL]

I don't know what she heard. All I know, is that I didn't hear any of the companies mention race as a reason. There are plenty of Asian ballerinas . . . because they also tend to be small boned and tiny.

She said thats what she heard. Did you not listen to the interview. How would you hear any company mention race as a reason if you are not her? All Asian ballerinas are not Black so I dont get your point on that. You never answered my question about who determined the perfect body type and why they were correct?

Well, if the reason was racism, why would they be hiring Asian ballerinas? Or do you think racism is only against black people?

You dont have to hate Asians to be racist towards Blacks. Racists only need to think one race is superior over the other to fit the definition.

Well, I don't think that is the case at all. No one is saying that one type of body is superior over another. As you said earlier, that is subjective. However, that has been the status quo in this profession for a very long time, and I don't think it has to do with racism. It is more along the lines of the runway model industry where they prefer very thin women, so as not to take attention away from the performance and for other reasons too.

Slavery was also the status quo for a long time. Is it possible that this idea is based on racial stereotypes? You used the modeling as an example. My curvy Black wife was told the same thing. They wanted her to lose weight down to 105 lbs and she is 5'8". They also wanted her to lighten her skin. Are you really that indoctrinated you dont see the racism?

Look buddy, I don't care about your personal anecdotes. They may or may not be true, as far as I'm concerned.

If you want to make this into just ANOTHER racial issue, then have at it, fool. I'm out.

 

[Asclepias]

She said thats what she heard. Did you not listen to the interview. How would you hear any company mention race as a reason if you are not her? All Asian ballerinas are not Black so I dont get your point on that. You never answered my question about who determined the perfect body type and why they were correct?

Well, if the reason was racism, why would they be hiring Asian ballerinas? Or do you think racism is only against black people?

You dont have to hate Asians to be racist towards Blacks. Racists only need to think one race is superior over the other to fit the definition.

Well, I don't think that is the case at all. No one is saying that one type of body is superior over another. As you said earlier, that is subjective. However, that has been the status quo in this profession for a very long time, and I don't think it has to do with racism. It is more along the lines of the runway model industry where they prefer very thin women, so as not to take attention away from the performance and for other reasons too.

Slavery was also the status quo for a long time. Is it possible that this idea is based on racial stereotypes? You used the modeling as an example. My curvy Black wife was told the same thing. They wanted her to lose weight down to 105 lbs and she is 5'8". They also wanted her to lighten her skin. Are you really that indoctrinated you dont see the racism?

Look buddy, I don't care about your personal anecdotes. They may or may not be true, as far as I'm concerned.

If you want to make this into just ANOTHER racial issue, then have at it, fool. I'm out.

I didnt ask you what you cared about. You quoted on my thread fool. I asked you are you really that indoctrinated that you would totally ignore what the beautiful Black woman said and pretend its not a racial issue?

 

[ChrisL]

Well, if the reason was racism, why would they be hiring Asian ballerinas? Or do you think racism is only against black people?

You dont have to hate Asians to be racist towards Blacks. Racists only need to think one race is superior over the other to fit the definition.

Well, I don't think that is the case at all. No one is saying that one type of body is superior over another. As you said earlier, that is subjective. However, that has been the status quo in this profession for a very long time, and I don't think it has to do with racism. It is more along the lines of the runway model industry where they prefer very thin women, so as not to take attention away from the performance and for other reasons too.

Slavery was also the status quo for a long time. Is it possible that this idea is based on racial stereotypes? You used the modeling as an example. My curvy Black wife was told the same thing. They wanted her to lose weight down to 105 lbs and she is 5'8". They also wanted her to lighten her skin. Are you really that indoctrinated you dont see the racism?

Look buddy, I don't care about your personal anecdotes. They may or may not be true, as far as I'm concerned.

If you want to make this into just ANOTHER racial issue, then have at it, fool. I'm out.

I didnt ask you what you cared about. You quoted on my thread fool. I asked you are you really that indoctrinated that you would totally ignore what the beautiful Black woman said and pretend its not a racial issue?

I would, without any evidence, simply because I know how the industry operates and I don't see a boogey man around every corner, unlike your crazy self. Somehow I doubt that any "beautiful women" would tolerate you for very long. Lol! You are just an internet nut.

 

[ChrisL]

There are plenty of things I could never do because I'm too short. Don't hear me whining though. I don't expect to be able to be an NBA basketball player or a runway model.

 

[Yarddog]

I dont know much about ballet or that type of thing, I think it is a strange world honestly, but from this article I think many are concerned about everyone looking the same on stage, thus, they put white powder on evrybody. I think its somebodys Idea of the visual art aspect. It probably has nothing to do with thinking blacks are inferior dancers as I think they do excell in other Broadway musical type performances all the time. Im all for black being in Ballet, but then again,... Im not very much for Ballet in the classical form, I think its a strange world to begin with.

Where are the black ballet dancers Stage The Guardian

 

[Asclepias]

You dont have to hate Asians to be racist towards Blacks. Racists only need to think one race is superior over the other to fit the definition.

Well, I don't think that is the case at all. No one is saying that one type of body is superior over another. As you said earlier, that is subjective. However, that has been the status quo in this profession for a very long time, and I don't think it has to do with racism. It is more along the lines of the runway model industry where they prefer very thin women, so as not to take attention away from the performance and for other reasons too.

Slavery was also the status quo for a long time. Is it possible that this idea is based on racial stereotypes? You used the modeling as an example. My curvy Black wife was told the same thing. They wanted her to lose weight down to 105 lbs and she is 5'8". They also wanted her to lighten her skin. Are you really that indoctrinated you dont see the racism?

Look buddy, I don't care about your personal anecdotes. They may or may not be true, as far as I'm concerned.

If you want to make this into just ANOTHER racial issue, then have at it, fool. I'm out.

I didnt ask you what you cared about. You quoted on my thread fool. I asked you are you really that indoctrinated that you would totally ignore what the beautiful Black woman said and pretend its not a racial issue?

I would, without any evidence, simply because I know how the industry operates and I don't see a boogey man around every corner, unlike your crazy self. Somehow I doubt that any "beautiful women" would tolerate you for very long. Lol! You are just an internet nut.

You dont know more about how the industry operates than the ballerina that contradicts you. Sorry but I dont believe that.

 

[Asclepias]

There are plenty of things I could never do because I'm too short. Don't hear me whining though. I don't expect to be able to be an NBA basketball player or a runway model.

You being short has nothing to do with your race or ability to play NBA ball. If someone 5'4" can play in the NBA you can too.

 

[sealybobo]

...talks about how racism in the art is still prevalent and how she is making them eat crow.

Unlikely ballerina takes the stage - CNN.com Video

I saw her on tv and she is amazing.

Is it racism or is it just not a lot of ballerina schools in the hood? Hey! We were talking about black people staring more business'. Maybe you can open up a dance school in the hood. You would have virtually no competition.

 

[Asclepias]

I dont know much about ballet or that type of thing, I think it is a strange world honestly, but from this article I think many are concerned about everyone looking the same on stage, thus, they put white powder on evrybody. I think its somebodys Idea of the visual art aspect. It probably has nothing to do with thinking blacks are inferior dancers as I think they do excell in other Broadway musical type performances all the time. Im all for black being in Ballet, but then again,... Im not very much for Ballet in the classical form, I think its a strange world to begin with.

Where are the black ballet dancers Stage The Guardian

I dont think everyone is prejudiced in ballet. I think the norm is based on racial stereotypes that people take on without being aware they are racist. This speaks volumes.

"Ash has encountered similar prejudice. "Black women are often perceived as rude, ostentatious and aggressive. In ballet, the meek, humble, innocent young girl roles are rarely given to black women. But we are all those things and then some. We don't always have to be exotic – all fire, athleticism. The images we don't see of black women as princesses: that speaks volumes.""

 

[Asclepias]

...talks about how racism in the art is still prevalent and how she is making them eat crow.

Unlikely ballerina takes the stage - CNN.com Video

I saw her on tv and she is amazing.

Is it racism or is it just not a lot of ballerina schools in the hood? Hey! We were talking about black people staring more business'. Maybe you can open up a dance school in the hood. You would have virtually no competition.

Already plenty of them. I told you we dont always report to you.