biggest difference between Catholic and Protestant... Real Presence

[Cougarbear]

Why don't you tell me your beliefs instead of what is wrong with my beliefs, which you do not state correctly to begin with.

There4eyeM gave us a beautiful rendition of his beliefs.

I've given you my beliefs with the sacraments. Luke 22:19, "And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, this is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me." He does that same with the cup as well for the blood he will shed. The key is that obviously the bread he broke wasn't his own. You can think logically, can't you? Same with the wine in the cup. He didn't slash his wrist and fill the cups up, did he? No. The key then is the word "remembrance" of me. So we bless and sanctify the bread and liquid (we use water) in remembrance of the atoning sacrifice that he did for us. That we may witness this great sacrifice and do as we did at baptism, covenant to keep his commandments which he has given us. In no way do the sacraments turn into the literal body and blood of Christ. That's just vain nonsense.

I stated correctly the beliefs of the Catholic Church Doctrine. There's plenty online for this for you to check out for yourself. Whether you believe these things to be true doesn't help you in the long run. Warning voices that warn against false doctrine are good for us. Because, that is real love. Not to let people continue down a filthy river into oblivion.

 

[Meriweather]

The key then is the word "remembrance"

"Remembrance" may be your key.

My key is my Lord's presence, body, blood, and divinity. At the Last Supper, Jesus did not point to his chest and declare, "This is my body." He was quite clear that the bread was his body. Nor did he poke himself hard enough to draw blood, point to it and say, "This is my blood." He did say that about the Chalice of Wine.

Your key is symbolic. A story you were not a part of, but one you heard? You have the remembrance of a story. You seem happy with that. Fine. I will not give up what I have.

 

[rightnow909]

Valid Priesthood? All Christians are priests, they do not have to go through some selection/election process (1 Peter 2:5,9).

All members of the church are equals. (Gal. 3:28) (Col 3:11).

Jesus even prayed that all Christians should be ONE. (John 17:20-21)

Paul warned of time when there would be separation of the faith..........beginning with the church elders. (Acts 20:29-31). He called those people that would attempt to corrupt the faith "savage wolves......coming in among the flock".

where did i speak about equality?

take a RCIA class... I don't have time or resources to school u on the Catholic faith... but it IS the one Christ founded so....

 

[Cougarbear]

"Remembrance" may be your key.

My key is my Lord's presence, body, blood, and divinity. At the Last Supper, Jesus did not point to his chest and declare, "This is my body." He was quite clear that the bread was his body. Nor did he poke himself hard enough to draw blood, point to it and say, "This is my blood." He did say that about the Chalice of Wine.

Your key is symbolic. A story you were not a part of, but one you heard? You have the remembrance of a story. You seem happy with that. Fine. I will not give up what I have.

I'm sorry but the scripture I quoted used the word "remembrance." Are you suggesting that I ignore what the Lord himself said and go along with what you say or what the Catholic Church says? The Church should follow the Lord, right? I mean, if it's supposed to be the "true" church? The Lord was establishing an "Ordinance." One the people would do on a regular basis to remember His atonement. Not just his crucifixion. But, when he took upon him the sins of those who would believe in Him and repent of their sins on the Mount of Gethsemane. If you think that the Eucharist is the actual flesh of the Lord, then you are eating his flesh which is grotesque and cannibalism. The timing of your confession is funny. The movie, "Night of the Living Dead" was on last night. Yumyum...
Here is what the true Church says while blessing the Sacraments: The Bread: "O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it, that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his commandments which he has given them; that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen." The Water: "O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this water to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they may do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them; that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they do always remember him, that they may have his Spirit to be with them. Amen."

The idea that Jesus Christ has to die over and over thousands of times daily for eternity makes no sense whatsoever. And, that priests have that power is absurd.

 

[rightnow909]

If Jesus truly is One with All, then All is Him.

Jesus is not "one" with vile sinners who refuse to repent

He is one with the ones who follow him diligently...

 

[rightnow909]

I'm sorry but the scripture I quoted used the word "remembrance." Are you suggesting that I ignore what the Lord himself said and go along with what you say or what the Catholic Church says? The Church should follow the Lord, right? I mean, if it's supposed to be the "true" church?

There was ONE Church and there still is ONE Church

that Church, the only one that dates back to the time of Christ and the Apostles is the Catholic Church (we can credit Constantine with the huge cathedrals that existed bc of him)

Read the early Church fathers... who lived at the same time as the 12

the word Catholic was used to describe the Church at least as early as 107 AD...

 

[Cougarbear]

There was ONE Church and there still is ONE Church

that Church, the only one that dates back to the time of Christ and the Apostles is the Catholic Church (we can credit Constantine with the huge cathedrals that existed bc of him)

Read the early Church fathers... who lived at the same time as the 12

the word Catholic was used to describe the Church at least as early as 107 AD...

Apostasy to proceed the 2nd Coming. 2thessalonians 2:3, "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition." "Falling Away" means apostasy. That happened before the Catholic Church was actually established as a Church. So, the return of the Lord will come after a great apostacy. There were centuries of apostacy by those who claim to be of Christ. They rejected the Prophets and Apostles. Some killed them. There was no apostolic succession because of this apostacy. Paul didn't lie. So, how else could the Church and true Gospel be restored? God would have to call a Prophet, in which no Pope is a prophet. That's the only way.

 

[Meriweather]

grotesque and cannibalism

What a repulsive thing to say. Did it come from your heart?

 

[Clyde 154]

Do flesh, blood, and bones always make up a living body?

According to Jesus.....all human life must have flesh and bones -- Luke 24:39 (and blood as the life of the flesh is found in the blood -- Lev. 17:11)
A living organism is defined by the fact that it is capable of consuming and converting energy to animate/or grow/sustain that life. There are numerous types of life on earth.........but all have the commonality of being carbon based. Life was created from the elements common to earth (Genesis 2:7)

 

[surada]

But which bible? Mine says "no one has ascended to heaven (except Christ)...". That would exclude Mary from heaven. The Catholic church 'assumes' that Mary ascended because they want her up there regardless of scripture.

They worshipped and followed tradition long before there was a Bible. What's wrong with venerating Mary?

 

[there4eyeM]

They worshipped and followed tradition long before there was a Bible. What's wrong with venerating Mary?

Other than being a total diversion from the message of Jesus?

 

[surada]

Other than being a total diversion from the message of Jesus?

We don't know that since their traditions predate the gospels.

 

[there4eyeM]

We don't know that since their traditions predate the gospels.

Who this "we" is doesn't matter. The message is clear and has nothing to do with venerating other humans.

 

[surada]

Who this "we" is doesn't matter. The message is clear and has nothing to do with venerating other humans.

So you are hung up on venerating Mary.

 

[Cougarbear]

What a repulsive thing to say. Did it come from your heart?

This comes from logic and reasoning. Something Catholicism is missing. Doesn't surprise me either. The Popes, for centuries, have stated they are not apostles nor prophets. Apostles are prophets, seers and revelators in which Popes are not by their own admission. So, apostacy always includes the loss of direct contact through any Church, especially when they claim they are the one true church. Instead, they replace this with 50 years of traditions making them doctrines and ordinances. So, a church being around for 2,000 years (some say 1,500 years) would obviously deteriorate into grotesque things like we've seen over the centuries with the Catholic Church like torture chambers and things like that.

 

[Cougarbear]

This comes from logic and reasoning. Something Catholicism is missing. Doesn't surprise me either. The Popes, for centuries, have stated they are not apostles nor prophets. Apostles are prophets, seers and revelators in which Popes are not by their own admission. So, apostacy always includes the loss of direct contact through any Church, especially when they claim they are the one true church. Instead, they replace this with 50 years of traditions making them doctrines and ordinances. So, a church being around for 2,000 years (some say 1,500 years) would obviously deteriorate into grotesque things like we've seen over the centuries with the Catholic Church like torture chambers and things like that.

Ya? Why?

 

[Meriweather]

This comes from logic and reasoning.

That is fine. Some of us prefer to walk by faith in Jesus' words.

Since your own logic and reasoning is a better way for you, may that way bring you blessings as well.

 

[Woodznutz]

They worshipped and followed tradition long before there was a Bible. What's wrong with venerating Mary?

I think making an image of her and bowing before it is a bit suspect.

EXODUS 20:4-6 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them...

 

[Cougarbear]

That is fine. Some of us prefer to walk by faith in Jesus' words.

Since your own logic and reasoning is a better way for you, may that way bring you blessings as well.

Jesus taught through parables, allegories, comparisons, similitudes to teach morals and ethics by way of logic and reasoning. To understand these, you have to be able to understand them through logic and reasoning. Most of the people did not get his parables and messages. Partly because they were fully uneducated to the Old Testament and other life experiences. So, when you say you walk by faith in Jesus words, which words are you speaking of? All of them or just the ones you choose to follow? For instance, when you say you follow Jesus. Do you follow all the words of the apostles in the bible? Or, just the ones that fit your narratives and prejudices? If you don't understand the messages of Jesus, how can you say you follow Jesus? How can you say you do his works? This is just a Catholic's misunderstanding of what faith is. Faith is not ignorance nor is it blind, except for those that don't use their God-given brains to logically reason out their faith.

 

[surada]

I think making an image of her and bowing before it is a bit suspect.

EXODUS 20:4-6 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them...

So you're Jewish. I thought you were a Christian.