CBO: Biden $15 An Hour Minimum Wage Will Cost 1.4 Million American Jobs

[danielpalos]

It may be around twenty dollars an hour to ensure even the working poor can afford our first world economy.

Ok

a $20 min wage but no more welfare programs

are you onboard with that?

Would anyone working qualify for means tested welfare like they do now?

 

[danielpalos]

We should be lowering the cost of Government by paying labor enough to not need it.

Ok

can we abolish welfare programs in exchange for a $15 min wage?

Wait until you start hearing the outcry from the left when they find out how many of them have just been pushed off of welfare due to this wage increase. Instead of getting subsidized on the dole, they will have to actually budget for more expensive food. Short-sighted democrats need to pull their heads out of their asses and use some common sense. But there will be those that will still need welfare because their job disappeared.

How is actually making enough to budget in a market economy short sighted?

 

[SC Patriot]

Kroger will shut two California stores to avoid offering workers "hazard pay"


Kroger is closing two stores in California rather than pay grocery workers an extra four dollars an hour for working at the nation's largest supermarket chain during the coronavirus pandemic. The company blamed a decision by local officials who recently approved a temporary wage increase for some supermarket employees.


Kroger said it will close the stores, a Ralphs and a Food 4 Less, in April because of the law, passed in January by the Long Beach city council. With a handful of cities across California weighing whether to mandate "hazard pay" for grocery workers, Kroger also warned that it could shut more stores.

Long Beach last month became the first city in California to approve a hazard pay ordinance, with the law requiring grocery stores with at least 300 workers nationwide and more than 15 employees within Long Beach to pay an extra $4 an hour for a 120-day period.

Kroger will shut two California stores to avoid offering workers "hazard pay"

Nation's largest supermarket chain faults "misguided action" by local officials for decision to close stores.

www.cbsnews.com

Kroger has benefitted from frozen wages for 12 years
The also benefitted from a 40 percent cut in corporate taxes

But they claim they will go bankrupt if they have to pay their workers to risk their lives

50+ years ago when a teen and working my first jobs, they were in grocery stores so don't know that is a risk their lives situation, it wasn't back then.

This was in a community where logging was still a major employer and setting chockers was a lot riskier and more a real hazard. Similar to the military in ways.

BTW, didn't see proof in your article on the frozen wage and tax cuts claims.

The canned good pricing gn was a dangerous item. Especially when we would see who could price a case of peas in record time.
I used to go home with price tags all over my hands.

But one week I was the champ!

I remember those days as well. Good times for $1.60/hr. Learned a lot.

1.60 an hour plus the 25 cent tip from the lady whos bags you put in her trunk for her.
Of course, there were the few....th ones that opened their trunk in Syracuse NY in the winter and got in their car and started it up with no tip. They got a thumb through the chopped meat.
Im going to hell.

 

[danielpalos]

Boom and bust is all Capitalism offers.

No boom and bust in communism, eh comrade?

No, only lousy management.

And a really fucking lousy system.

Businesses fail all the time under Capitalism and corporate welfare is alive and well even for firms who can afford to hire entire departments to help them conform to rational choice theory. How good can that system be?

 

[hadit]

They collect more from welfare

Yup, working for $8/hour reduces welfare payments.

The minimum wage should be high enough to where labor doesn't need social services. We should be lowering the cost of Government by paying labor enough to not need it.

If society deems that to be a minimal level for everyone, then society needs to impose the taxes and write the checks to make it happen. Businesses are not welfare distribution centers.

Wages need to be high enough to where most people don't need means tested welfare.

So you're claiming that businesses need to maintain parity with government largess, something over which they have no control while government has control over them? Let's see if we have thins right:

1. Government forcibly takes money from businesses in the form of taxes, regulations and fees. Want to argue that?
2. Government turns around and shovels that money back out through welfare programs. Want to argue that?
3. You say that businesses need to pay employees more than what they could get from the government. Want to argue that?

Does anyone need me to connect the dots here? Daniel is saying that businesses have to beat Santa Claus when Santa Clause not only gets his goodies from business in the first place, but decides how much to shovel out, regardless of economic reality.

 

[hadit]

Why do we even need statutory minimum wages if Capitalism is supposed to be so wonderful?

Why don't you move to Cuba, if Capitalism is supposed to be so awful?

Our welfare clause is General and we have a Commerce Clause in particular. We should have a mixed market economy that can be more efficient. Optimizing public policies is what we should be doing.

And another rendition of the danielpalos word symphony, signifying nothing.

No wonder optimizing private business for their bottom line means nothing to the right wing.

It means nothing to you because you just redefine words to mean things they don't and string them together hoping they sound good.

 

[danielpalos]

They collect more from welfare

Yup, working for $8/hour reduces welfare payments.

The minimum wage should be high enough to where labor doesn't need social services. We should be lowering the cost of Government by paying labor enough to not need it.

The minimum wage should be high enough to where labor doesn't need social services.

But the minimum wage is $0.
That's what you're earning now, right?

Not at all. The minimum wage is whatever it takes to not need social services for anyone working full time.

There is no unemployment under Capitalism only underpayment. Anyone can be bought under Capitalism where Greed is Good.

 

[danielpalos]

Government forcibly takes money from businesses in the form of taxes, regulations and fees. Want to argue that?

Government is not free. Simply add it to the cost of doing business, that is what taxes are.

 

[danielpalos]

Government turns around and shovels that money back out through welfare programs. Want to argue that?

We could be lowering that cost by ensuring the private sector pays enough.

 

[danielpalos]

You say that businesses need to pay employees more than what they could get from the government. Want to argue that?

There is no unemployment only underpayment under Capitalism where Greed is Good and anyone can be bought.

 

[Mac-7]

We should be lowering the cost of Government by paying labor enough to not need it.

Ok

can we abolish welfare programs in exchange for a $15 min wage?

Wait until you start hearing the outcry from the left when they find out how many of them have just been pushed off of welfare due to this wage increase. Instead of getting subsidized on the dole, they will have to actually budget for more expensive food. Short-sighted democrats need to pull their heads out of their asses and use some common sense. But there will be those that will still need welfare because their job disappeared.

The biden plan is to make welfare dependents out of former workers that his policies send to the unemployment line

 

[Mac-7]

We could be lowering that cost by ensuring the private sector pays enough.

You do that in part by deporting illegal aliens who compete with Americans for those jobs

 

[Mac-7]

Would anyone working qualify for means tested welfare like they do now?

NO

 

[Mac-7]

How is actually making enough to budget in a market economy short sighted?

Fewer workers will be hired

 

[Wyatt earp]

CBO: Biden’s $15 Minimum Wage Would
Result in a Loss of 1.4 Million Jobs

Why Do This? Because the Democrats know what's best for you...and because they CAN.


CBO: Biden's $15 Minimum Wage Would Result in a Loss of 1.4 Million Jobs

Only in the short term. Unemployment compensation could be improved to better pick up the slack and automatically stabilize our economy. In the long run, higher paid labor creates more in demand and generates more in tax revenue.

Only if you raise it gradually enough that the market can adjust. Double it overnight and impact 60% of the work force and things can get ugly.

"adjust" = raise prices slowly enough that customers don't riot...

And that adjustment still results in the loss of jobs, just less noticeably. My Dad would tell us that in the 1950's they marveled at the Soviet Union where you had to pump your own gas while here in the States we had a teenager come out and not only pump your gas but check your tires, oil and water. Get that kind of service lately? Now, when you get fast food, more likely than not you'll place your order and pay for it on a touch screen. The only time you interact with a person is when somebody hands you a bag and a cup to go pour your own drink. Go grocery shopping and you can scan and bag everything on your own. Low end jobs do disappear as they become more expensive. Even higher paying jobs are disappearing. Once upon a time, auto manufacturing assembly lines employed hundreds of thousands of highly paid workers. Now a relative handful monitor and fix the machines that put the cars together. The only question is, what will replace the lost jobs? The trend is jobs that require more training and more education before you can even start. And prices continue to rise.

And if you lowered the minimum wage to zero, where it belongs, you could very well have those same types of jobs back.

in other words, bring back slavery

You dumb muck minimum wage laws was brought about because of racism

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Boom and bust is all Capitalism offers.

No boom and bust in communism, eh comrade?

No, only lousy management.

And a really fucking lousy system.

Businesses fail all the time under Capitalism and corporate welfare is alive and well even for firms who can afford to hire entire departments to help them conform to rational choice theory. How good can that system be?

Businesses fail all the time under Capitalism

Businesses never fail under Communism.
Their economies must be better than ours.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

They collect more from welfare

Yup, working for $8/hour reduces welfare payments.

The minimum wage should be high enough to where labor doesn't need social services. We should be lowering the cost of Government by paying labor enough to not need it.

The minimum wage should be high enough to where labor doesn't need social services.

But the minimum wage is $0.
That's what you're earning now, right?

Not at all. The minimum wage is whatever it takes to not need social services for anyone working full time.

There is no unemployment under Capitalism only underpayment. Anyone can be bought under Capitalism where Greed is Good.

The minimum wage is whatever it takes to not need social services for anyone working full time.

You're not working. Your wage is $0.

There is no unemployment under Capitalism only underpayment.

You come up with that after 2 bowls? Or 3?

 

[skews13]

CBO: Biden’s $15 Minimum Wage Would
Result in a Loss of 1.4 Million Jobs

Why Do This? Because the Democrats know what's best for you...and because they CAN.


CBO: Biden's $15 Minimum Wage Would Result in a Loss of 1.4 Million Jobs

Only in the short term. Unemployment compensation could be improved to better pick up the slack and automatically stabilize our economy. In the long run, higher paid labor creates more in demand and generates more in tax revenue.

And what economic theory and data supports your hypothesis? So where are all these jobs going to originate from? Higher paying jobs derive from the private sector, supply and demand for skilled and entry level labor, not government mandate or government spending.

It’s economics 101. Which is why you don’t get it.

Higher pay results in higher income

Higher income results in more discretionary spending

Higher discretionary spending leads to higher sales of goods

Higher sales of goods means more manufacturing and production

More manufacturing and production means more need for raw materials

More need of raw materials means more export-import trade

Which means more transportation needs

Which means more jobs in all categories mentioned above

You getting this yet Cletis?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

CBO: Biden’s $15 Minimum Wage Would
Result in a Loss of 1.4 Million Jobs

Why Do This? Because the Democrats know what's best for you...and because they CAN.


CBO: Biden's $15 Minimum Wage Would Result in a Loss of 1.4 Million Jobs

Only in the short term. Unemployment compensation could be improved to better pick up the slack and automatically stabilize our economy. In the long run, higher paid labor creates more in demand and generates more in tax revenue.

And what economic theory and data supports your hypothesis? So where are all these jobs going to originate from? Higher paying jobs derive from the private sector, supply and demand for skilled and entry level labor, not government mandate or government spending.

It’s economics 101. Which is why you don’t get it.

Higher pay results in higher income

Higher income results in more discretionary spending

Higher discretionary spending leads to higher sales of goods

Higher sales of goods means more manufacturing and production

More manufacturing and production means more need for raw materials

More need of raw materials means more export-import trade

Which means more transportation needs

Which means more jobs in all categories mentioned above

You getting this yet Cletis?

Higher pay results in higher income

That is awesome!!

Who is writing those checks?

Higher income results in more discretionary spending

Sweet!

Who gets this higher income?

 

[Wyatt earp]

Who's going to do the work of the 1.4 million?

It's not as if employers keep surplus workers around the shop just in case.

They'll just get by with one or 2 less employees.

Or maybe the business won't hire a cleaning company and have their workers sweep up

Maybe the owner will plow his own parking lot instead of paying someone else to do it?

There are millions of ways to save a little money here and there

That depends on the cost differential. If you have to pay an employee more per hour than you would a cleaning company, you'd be foolish to cut the cleaning company. Same with plowing the parking lot. The owner would have to have his own equipment, transport it to the parking lot, carry insurance to protect him if he damages a car or city property and take the time out of his day to do the plowing. He would be stupid to do that if he was getting the equivalent of $100/hr from the company and would pay a service $50/hr.

and you don't think the cleaning company will have to pay their cleaners 15 an hour too?

So not only do your labor costs go up but you now have to pay the cleaners more too.

And since plowing is usually done before the business opens or after it closes it doesn't cut into the owners productivity at work so why pay a guy to do it?

And they can offset those costs...by cutting management salaries.

Uuuuu there's a thought huh?

But then you identify with management and not with rank and file employees so you'd never cut THEIR salaries woudja

Trickle up poor..

Yup you want everyone miserable like a good communist