Christian friends of gays and lesbians

[DiveCon]

Seems pretty lazy to me.

Yes it is lazy. It takes alot of work to type out Family Research Council, Christian Coalition, Focus on the Family, Coral Ridge Minsteries, Roman Catholic Church, Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and the mega churches etc etc etc

Just call them Modern Day Pharisees.

Immie

just call them they wont matter
as the government getting out of marriage leaves them on the out

 

[LuckyDan]

Seems pretty lazy to me.

Yes it is lazy. It takes alot of work to type out Family Research Council, Christian Coalition, Focus on the Family, Coral Ridge Minsteries, Roman Catholic Church, Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and the mega churches etc etc etc

Just call them Modern Day Pharisees.

Immie

Call them what they are - marriage traditionalists. That way, the millions of heathens who went right along with them in voting this bullshit down won't feel unfairly left out.

 

[DiveCon]

Yes it is lazy. It takes alot of work to type out Family Research Council, Christian Coalition, Focus on the Family, Coral Ridge Minsteries, Roman Catholic Church, Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and the mega churches etc etc etc

Just call them Modern Day Pharisees.

Immie

Call them what they are - marriage traditionalists. That way, the millions of heathens who went right along with them in voting this bullshit down won't feel unfairly left out.

now that is a good term

 

[LuckyDan]

Just call them Modern Day Pharisees.

Immie

Call them what they are - marriage traditionalists. That way, the millions of heathens who went right along with them in voting this bullshit down won't feel unfairly left out.

now that is a good term

It lacks the sought-after stigmatizaton I think she's looking for, but for the rest of us, yeah. Accurate.

 

[THE LIGHT]

Call them what they are - marriage traditionalists. That way, the millions of heathens who went right along with them in voting this bullshit down won't feel unfairly left out.

now that is a good term

It lacks the sought-after stigmatizaton I think she's looking for, but for the rest of us, yeah. Accurate.

Yeah, it doesn't quite have the same effect as calling them "evil-homophobic-angry-gun toting-Bible thumping-bigoted-bastards."

 

[Immanuel]

Sorry Immie but biblical references don't mean a thing to me.

I was afraid that might be the case. Here is some background on the Pharisees with the important part underlined:

Pharisees - Facts from the Encyclopedia - Yahoo! Education

(fâr´ĭsēz) , one of the two great Jewish religious and political parties of the second commonwealth. Their opponents were the Sadducees, and it appears that the Sadducees gave them their name, perushim, Hebrew for "separatists" or "deviants." The Pharisees began their activities during or after the Hasmonean revolt (c.166—142 ). The Pharisees upheld an interpretation of Judaism that was in opposition to the priestly Temple cult. They stressed faith in the one God; the divine revelation of the law both written and oral handed down by Moses through Joshua, the elders, and the prophets to the Pharisees; and eternal life and resurrection for those who keep the law. Pharisees insisted on the strict observance of Jewish law, which they began to codify. While in agreement on the broad outlines of Jewish law, the Pharisees encouraged debate on its fine points, and according to one view, practiced the tradition of zuggot, or pairs of scholars with opposing views. They developed the synagogue as an alternative place of worship to the Temple, with a liturgy consisting of biblical and prophetic readings, and the repetition of the shma, the basic creed of Judaism. In addition, they supported the separation of the worldly and the spiritual spheres, ceding the former to the secular rulers. Though some supported the revolt against Rome in 70, most did not. One Pharisee was Yohanan ben Zakkai, who fled to Jamnia, where he was instrumental in developing post-Temple Judaism. By separating Judaism from dependence on the Temple cult, and by stressing the direct relation between the individual and God, the Pharisees laid the groundwork for normative rabbinic Judaism. Their influence on Christianity was substantial as well, despite the passages in the New Testament which label the Pharisees "hypocrites" or "offspring of the vipers." St. Paul was originally a Pharisee. After the fall of the Temple ( 70), the Pharisees became the dominant party until c.135.

Basically the Pharisees believed in following the letter of the law... problem was that they added to the law and insisted that everyone follow their rules over God's rules.

Immie

 

[CurveLight]

I don't see the upside, DiveCon. Why enact thousand of new statutes just to substitute "civil union" for "marriage"? If the two terms will be synonymous, what benefit would accrue?

Simple... the Separation of Church and State remains in tack.

Immie

Marriage is not endemic to religious institutions so you just killed your own argument.

 

[bodecea]

you can call it whatever you want

Why don't religious people fighting tooth and nail to let gay couples call marriage "marriage" because of its so-called religious roots....why aren't they fighting tooth and nail against Atheists who call it "marriage"?


Can someone answer that one for me? I thought it was a faith owned word.

that's where you're fucked up---"marriage" has crept into secular life after centuries. You're taking on way more than the religious people when you try to change a word

I am very, very glad to see someone admit that the term "marriage" is NOT faith based. Thank you. That's what we've been saying all along. It's secular.

 

[CurveLight]

I don't see the upside, DiveCon. Why enact thousand of new statutes just to substitute "civil union" for "marriage"? If the two terms will be synonymous, what benefit would accrue?

Simple... the Separation of Church and State remains in tack.

Immie

I would like Immie (or anyone tossing that soundbite around) to show 2 or 3 examples of cases where churches have been forced to marry anyone for any reason. I don't think they can and I am beginning to think people like Immie are against gay marriage but wish to present an argument not inherently tied to bigotry. Immie will prove his motive when he presents cases where churches were forced to marry thus supporting his reason for being against gay marriage.

Once it is established churches would not be forced to marry gays the Immie crowd will have to reconcile their hollow justification.

Provided in my last post.

Immie

Not even freaking close. This is what I asked:

I would like Immie (or anyone tossing that soundbite around) to show 2 or 3 examples of cases where churches have been forced to marry anyone for any reason.

You provided a photography business and a pavilion that had been rented out to the public.

You've never provided a case where a church was forced to marry any couple for any reason.

The fact you have to look so damn hard to support your position, and that you fail in providing any cases shows you're full of shit. You're a bigot Immie.

 

[Valerie]

You're a bigot Immie.

Whoa! That's not true...Read the thread.

 

[Madeline]

I don't think it's fair to label Immie a bigot. I think his POV is based on faulty reasoning, but his motives are not hateful. He seems like a genuinely nice person to me.

 

[bodecea]

I don't think it's fair to label Immie a bigot. I think his POV is based on faulty reasoning, but his motives are not hateful. He seems like a genuinely nice person to me.

I agree with that...I just wish he wouldn't tell untruths about what my position on religious marriage is.

 

[Madeline]

I don't think he did that deliberately, boedecea. I have read this thread more'n once...I think he really did misunderstand.

You're very generous to say something nice about Immie on this topic. Just goes to show...there are good people on both sides, most times -- like you and Immie. (Course, the other side is wrong, but if they are really well-intentioned, eventually we can show them their error.)

 

[Againsheila]

I don't think he did that deliberately, boedecea. I have read this thread more'n once...I think he really did misunderstand.

You're very generous to say something nice about Immie on this topic. Just goes to show...there are good people on both sides, most times -- like you and Immie. (Course, the other side is wrong, but if they are really well-intentioned, eventually we can show them their error.)

Boedecea said something nice? Gee, maybe I should take her off ignore.

 

[Madeline]

Bodecea, the man...not boedicca, the whiny bitchy woman. (I'm pretty sure bodecea is a guy, anyway.)

 

[WillowTree]

Bodecea, the man...not boedicca, the whiny bitchy woman. (I'm pretty sure bodecea is a guy, anyway.)

you don't know your ass from the hole in the aforementioned ground.

 

[Againsheila]

Bodecea, the man...not boedicca, the whiny bitchy woman. (I'm pretty sure bodecea is a guy, anyway.)

I like boedicca...Boedecea is rude, insulting and well, word's I'd rather not say.

 

[Luissa]

Bodecea, the man...not boedicca, the whiny bitchy woman. (I'm pretty sure bodecea is a guy, anyway.)

Pretty sure Bodecea is a gay woman.

 

[Madeline]

Well, boedicca and I have very different POVs on things and insulted each other, to be fair. Just got to where all we ever had to say were insults, so I iggied her.

Bodecea seems to me like a fair person, Againshelia. Mebbe we should each try giving the other's iggied person a second look?

 

[Againsheila]

Well, boedicca and I have very different POVs on things and insulted each other, to be fair. Just got to where all we ever had to say were insults, so I iggied her.

Bodecea seems to me like a fair person, Againshelia. Mebbe we should each try giving the other's iggied person a second look?

I will if you will.