Do liberals even like this country?

[frigidweirdo]

Maybe you should stop worrying about the worry and fear and see that socialism is nothing to fear since it doesn't exist in the US.

Well I'm sorry, but it does in sectors of our country. What are our social programs if not socialism? What is taking from the rich to give to the poor if not socialism? What is trying to make everybody "equal" if not socialism?

Social programs are not socialism. They can be a step toward socialism just as private ownership can be a step toward capitalism. Having many social programs does not make a socialist nation any more than having a lot of private ownership make a capitalist nation. The success of social program determines whether it promotes more socialism or more capitalism.

Social programs do promote socialism. Surveys of younger people show a majority of them now believe socialism should be the future of this country. How did that happen, because they were raised with the belief of personal responsibility, hard work, taking financial risks, and a goal of financial success?

Just like I was talking about my HUD neighbors next door yesterday. You look at them, having a great time, making noise like they did when they lived in the inner city, living like kings, and then ask yourself WTF am I waking up early every morning to go to work????

Or when you get behind those food stamp people who are buying food you don't want to spend money on for yourself, and then they buy their cigarettes, alcohol, huge bags of dog food, cat litter, perfume and flowers and whip out a wad of cash. Again, people like myself just ask WTF am I working to support that?

Sometimes you feel like giving up after a while, and many people do. The Democrats celebrate it too. After a while, people say to themselves "I want to live like that too" and start to get a negative attitude about chasing success and having pride.

Hence why education is important. Studying what happened to Socialist/Communist countries in Eastern Europe should show people the problems of Socialism. Young people are idealistic, but if you have a system that fucks the poor left right and center, then socialism is going to be promoted.

If the system is fairer, then less extremes will appear. The more extreme one side is, the more extreme the other will be.

What "system" are you referring to? Our system is that if you work hard, save money, invest, you can do pretty well for yourself. Our system is that if you don't want to work for somebody else, work for yourself. Our system is that if you take your own money and invest in education, you will likely make more money than those who didn't.

Or the system is one which causes massive amounts of problems too. It's a system which leads to the rich controlling everything, doing everything for themselves. It's a system where business people who start up are in competition with larger companies who have an unfair advantage because the govt is making life easy for them. It's a system where if you don't have the brains, because you weren't born with them, you're fucked.

It's a system where those who can, control the shit out of everyone else and say "fuck you, I control this govt".

You're complaining about Socialists appearing, I can only tell you why they're appearing.

 

[regent]

So is America now great again?

 

[rightwinger]

The Government acts as a referee ensuring a level playing field

Show me where any of our founders thought that's what our federal government should be for--leveling the playing field.

Shit brother...

First sentence....We the People

 

[LittleNipper]

Completely wrong. It seems that liberals hate most things about America, not some things. I gave you the list of the major things liberals would like to change, would you like me to list them again? Of course not because you know I'm right.

There is no bullshit about what I speak of, and if you ever find any, by all means, bring it up. Everything I have said (and do say) is true. If you want to prove them false, I welcome the challenge.

The things we Republicans don't like about our country are the things liberals plagued us with just like those Socialist European countries. We don't want to be Sweden, we don't want to be Poland, we don't want to be Germany, we want to be America. The Socialism we have in the US is what's destroying our country, so we want to send that Socialism back to Europe while you on the left want to keep inviting it back in.

Yes Ray, there is a LOT of bullshit. Your logic is completely out of whack for a start.

Yes, Republicans don't like things that Democrats do, and Democrats don't like things that Republicans do, and somehow this is Republicans loving their country, because as always, the right decide that THEIR POLICIES are PATRIOTIC and Democrat policies are treason, or something like that. It's always been like that, go look at the right in Turkey or Israel or wherever.

I understand what this is trying to do, it's trying to force people to accept your view out of fear of being branded whatever you want to brand them as. In the 1950s-1990s it was Communists, now it could be a Muslim love, a Communist, a traitor, whatever, it's name calling at it's worst, bullying at it's worst and shows you don't have a decent argument to go by.

I'm not a Socialist Ray. I hate Socialism and Communism. But I also hate blatantly obvious bullshit and people who will say ANYTHING to get what they want, no matter how contradictory it is to the last thing they just said, and this is EXACTLY what you're doing.

Then I have no idea what you're reading when you read my posts. My point was that Republicans never try to compare other countries to ours because we believe we have the greatest country in the world. Liberals do not; always telling us how great it is in other places.

The fact that liberals want to change just about everything in America makes me wonder if you people even like this country--not because Democrat policies are treason, but because you are always telling us how wrong our country is compared to others because their systems are so superior to ours.

Bottom line is it seems we Republicans love our country while you on the left love other countries.

I guess I'll never understand some people. Kind of reminds me of what our state is doing now which is putting up sound barriers on the highways to make it a tad bit quieter for the homes that border the highway. To a liberal, this is logical. To a conservative, WTF did you buy a house next to the Fn highway for??? Now we are wasting tens of millions of dollars because you clowns bought cheaper homes by the highway, and then complained to your representatives about the noise!

So to me, it makes no sense when liberals complain we are not like other countries instead of packing your bags and going to these other countries. If it's so great there with their socialized medical care, their gun laws, their taxation, their election system, their education system, move and live in your utopia. But no. Instead, stay here and complain.

No Ray, your point is that everything Democrats do is rubbish and everything Republicans do is fucking amazing. That's your point, and it's bullshit.

So, it makes no sense to you when liberals complain about something and then want their country to be improved. Why? Because you're going to do everything to stop it happening because you want rich people to get richer, and poor people to go fuck themselves.

What exactly is your plan to improve America?

Will an 11 year old be able to go into the woods and shoot rabbits with a gun?

Could an 11 year old go fishing without having to pay the state?

Who cares?

Will an 11 year old have healthcare if he becomes sick?
Will he receive a good education?
Will he be safe walking home from school?


Under Republicans.....well....um...no
But he can hunt rabbits

The States offer a very cheap insurance for children 19 and under. That is true of both Pennsylvania and New Jersey. I don't know what other states have. In NJ doctor visits were $5 and shots were free. The rate was very reasonable --- much cheaper than a tattoo.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The Government acts as a referee ensuring a level playing field

Show me where any of our founders thought that's what our federal government should be for--leveling the playing field.

So, you're okay with one small group of people taking over the country and doing as they see fit with it, disregarding what the people thing and want?

 

[Marion Morrison]

Yes Ray, there is a LOT of bullshit. Your logic is completely out of whack for a start.

Yes, Republicans don't like things that Democrats do, and Democrats don't like things that Republicans do, and somehow this is Republicans loving their country, because as always, the right decide that THEIR POLICIES are PATRIOTIC and Democrat policies are treason, or something like that. It's always been like that, go look at the right in Turkey or Israel or wherever.

I understand what this is trying to do, it's trying to force people to accept your view out of fear of being branded whatever you want to brand them as. In the 1950s-1990s it was Communists, now it could be a Muslim love, a Communist, a traitor, whatever, it's name calling at it's worst, bullying at it's worst and shows you don't have a decent argument to go by.

I'm not a Socialist Ray. I hate Socialism and Communism. But I also hate blatantly obvious bullshit and people who will say ANYTHING to get what they want, no matter how contradictory it is to the last thing they just said, and this is EXACTLY what you're doing.

Then I have no idea what you're reading when you read my posts. My point was that Republicans never try to compare other countries to ours because we believe we have the greatest country in the world. Liberals do not; always telling us how great it is in other places.

The fact that liberals want to change just about everything in America makes me wonder if you people even like this country--not because Democrat policies are treason, but because you are always telling us how wrong our country is compared to others because their systems are so superior to ours.

Bottom line is it seems we Republicans love our country while you on the left love other countries.

I guess I'll never understand some people. Kind of reminds me of what our state is doing now which is putting up sound barriers on the highways to make it a tad bit quieter for the homes that border the highway. To a liberal, this is logical. To a conservative, WTF did you buy a house next to the Fn highway for??? Now we are wasting tens of millions of dollars because you clowns bought cheaper homes by the highway, and then complained to your representatives about the noise!

So to me, it makes no sense when liberals complain we are not like other countries instead of packing your bags and going to these other countries. If it's so great there with their socialized medical care, their gun laws, their taxation, their election system, their education system, move and live in your utopia. But no. Instead, stay here and complain.

No Ray, your point is that everything Democrats do is rubbish and everything Republicans do is fucking amazing. That's your point, and it's bullshit.

So, it makes no sense to you when liberals complain about something and then want their country to be improved. Why? Because you're going to do everything to stop it happening because you want rich people to get richer, and poor people to go fuck themselves.

What exactly is your plan to improve America?

Will an 11 year old be able to go into the woods and shoot rabbits with a gun?

Could an 11 year old go fishing without having to pay the state?

Who cares?

Will an 11 year old have healthcare if he becomes sick?
Will he receive a good education?
Will he be safe walking home from school?


Under Republicans.....well....um...no
But he can hunt rabbits

The States offer a very cheap insurance for children 19 and under. That is true of both Pennsylvania and New Jersey. I don't know what other states have. In NJ doctor visits were $5 and shots were free. The rate was very reasonable --- much cheaper than a tattoo.

When I was 7, doctor visits were $27, I found a receipt the other night. The other day I paid $92. fair enough.

 

[LittleNipper]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

The "patriot" who can actually change this nation for the better must be fully devoted to both GOD and country. Those that do not believe or accept the divine will never understand that human endeavor alone will only achieve more chaos and degradation...

Which God?

The God that that Jews, Christians, Catholics, and Muslims try to respect.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The Government acts as a referee ensuring a level playing field

Show me where any of our founders thought that's what our federal government should be for--leveling the playing field.

So, you're okay with one small group of people taking over the country and doing as they see fit with it, disregarding what the people thing and want?

Like who? Who are these people "taking over" the country? And what does that have to do with our federal governments responsibilities?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The Government acts as a referee ensuring a level playing field

Show me where any of our founders thought that's what our federal government should be for--leveling the playing field.

Shit brother...

First sentence....We the People

"We the people" means the federal government is supposed to be creating a level playing field? WTF did you get that from? What a stretch.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well I'm sorry, but it does in sectors of our country. What are our social programs if not socialism? What is taking from the rich to give to the poor if not socialism? What is trying to make everybody "equal" if not socialism?

Social programs are not socialism. They can be a step toward socialism just as private ownership can be a step toward capitalism. Having many social programs does not make a socialist nation any more than having a lot of private ownership make a capitalist nation. The success of social program determines whether it promotes more socialism or more capitalism.

Social programs do promote socialism. Surveys of younger people show a majority of them now believe socialism should be the future of this country. How did that happen, because they were raised with the belief of personal responsibility, hard work, taking financial risks, and a goal of financial success?

Just like I was talking about my HUD neighbors next door yesterday. You look at them, having a great time, making noise like they did when they lived in the inner city, living like kings, and then ask yourself WTF am I waking up early every morning to go to work????

Or when you get behind those food stamp people who are buying food you don't want to spend money on for yourself, and then they buy their cigarettes, alcohol, huge bags of dog food, cat litter, perfume and flowers and whip out a wad of cash. Again, people like myself just ask WTF am I working to support that?

Sometimes you feel like giving up after a while, and many people do. The Democrats celebrate it too. After a while, people say to themselves "I want to live like that too" and start to get a negative attitude about chasing success and having pride.

Hence why education is important. Studying what happened to Socialist/Communist countries in Eastern Europe should show people the problems of Socialism. Young people are idealistic, but if you have a system that fucks the poor left right and center, then socialism is going to be promoted.

If the system is fairer, then less extremes will appear. The more extreme one side is, the more extreme the other will be.

What "system" are you referring to? Our system is that if you work hard, save money, invest, you can do pretty well for yourself. Our system is that if you don't want to work for somebody else, work for yourself. Our system is that if you take your own money and invest in education, you will likely make more money than those who didn't.

Or the system is one which causes massive amounts of problems too. It's a system which leads to the rich controlling everything, doing everything for themselves. It's a system where business people who start up are in competition with larger companies who have an unfair advantage because the govt is making life easy for them. It's a system where if you don't have the brains, because you weren't born with them, you're fucked.

It's a system where those who can, control the shit out of everyone else and say "fuck you, I control this govt".

You're complaining about Socialists appearing, I can only tell you why they're appearing.

That begs the question: how is it everybody on the left is getting fucked by rich people while nobody on the right is? Don't you think this is something you on the left made up out of your hatred for people who did better than you in life?

 

[initforme]

My kids are well versed in how big money, much of it earned underhandedly, influences our sick twisted political system..Ray I know you agree with me on this.

 

[francoHFW]

The Government acts as a referee ensuring a level playing field

Show me where any of our founders thought that's what our federal government should be for--leveling the playing field.

So, you're okay with one small group of people taking over the country and doing as they see fit with it, disregarding what the people thing and want?

Like who? Who are these people "taking over" the country? And what does that have to do with our federal governments responsibilities?

Rich brainwashing GOP idiots megarich a-holes. They get all the new wealth while screwing the middle class and cutting services.

 

[francoHFW]

Social programs are not socialism. They can be a step toward socialism just as private ownership can be a step toward capitalism. Having many social programs does not make a socialist nation any more than having a lot of private ownership make a capitalist nation. The success of social program determines whether it promotes more socialism or more capitalism.

Social programs do promote socialism. Surveys of younger people show a majority of them now believe socialism should be the future of this country. How did that happen, because they were raised with the belief of personal responsibility, hard work, taking financial risks, and a goal of financial success?

Just like I was talking about my HUD neighbors next door yesterday. You look at them, having a great time, making noise like they did when they lived in the inner city, living like kings, and then ask yourself WTF am I waking up early every morning to go to work????

Or when you get behind those food stamp people who are buying food you don't want to spend money on for yourself, and then they buy their cigarettes, alcohol, huge bags of dog food, cat litter, perfume and flowers and whip out a wad of cash. Again, people like myself just ask WTF am I working to support that?

Sometimes you feel like giving up after a while, and many people do. The Democrats celebrate it too. After a while, people say to themselves "I want to live like that too" and start to get a negative attitude about chasing success and having pride.

Hence why education is important. Studying what happened to Socialist/Communist countries in Eastern Europe should show people the problems of Socialism. Young people are idealistic, but if you have a system that fucks the poor left right and center, then socialism is going to be promoted.

If the system is fairer, then less extremes will appear. The more extreme one side is, the more extreme the other will be.

What "system" are you referring to? Our system is that if you work hard, save money, invest, you can do pretty well for yourself. Our system is that if you don't want to work for somebody else, work for yourself. Our system is that if you take your own money and invest in education, you will likely make more money than those who didn't.

Or the system is one which causes massive amounts of problems too. It's a system which leads to the rich controlling everything, doing everything for themselves. It's a system where business people who start up are in competition with larger companies who have an unfair advantage because the govt is making life easy for them. It's a system where if you don't have the brains, because you weren't born with them, you're fucked.

It's a system where those who can, control the shit out of everyone else and say "fuck you, I control this govt".

You're complaining about Socialists appearing, I can only tell you why they're appearing.

That begs the question: how is it everybody on the left is getting fucked by rich people while nobody on the right is? Don't you think this is something you on the left made up out of your hatred for people who did better than you in life?

Of course you're getting screwed too, dupe.

 

[francoHFW]

But which societies are actually socialist Ray? Hardly any really.

Oh come on. You claim not to know but still say those are the countries we should be more like?

If ACA were implemented WE would be socialist...Thanks GOP- way to sell out again...

Having socialized health care, does not make a country socialist.

Having socialized police service, socialized military, etc etc, does not make the US socialist.

If you're a democracy, socialist is such a big term one can say it is. Even if it a pander to the rich GOP, unfair mess.

I don't quite get your point here. Could you explain it in a different way?

"We're all socialists now!"- Finland PM when ACA passed.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

From 1940 to 1980, we did exactly that and had unheard of prosperity. The rich paid their fair share and we invested in infrastructure and education.

We need to go back to that.

Let me explain something to you: Years ago, it was near impossible to leave the US for higher grounds. We didn't have the communications we have today. Overseas travel was dangerous, not only because of weather conditions, but because of hostile countries.

Today a CEO or business owner can operate a business overseas while staying in the US. They don't need to fly their executives to a certain place for a meeting, they can have those over the internet now face to face. A wealthy person can track their investments sitting on a toilet in Brazil somewhere. Wages in the US were not as distant here as overseas. When our people got a dollar an hour raise, wages in China or Vietnam went up three cents.

Today it makes sense to move a company out of the country because it's much more convenient and possible than it was 50 years ago. This started happening in the 70's and kept increasing as time went on. As we kept distancing ourselves in wages compared to the rest of the world (by unions) moving because a better option.

Record number of Americans giving up their citizenship

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Are you some kind of a retard? Were you not paying attention to the whole PATCO thing?

Okay, one union. Now what about the rest?

We're not following your philosophy completely, and to the degree we are, it's pretty effed up.

Not Fd up at all. Our philosophy has created the greatest country in the world. After all, we've only been a country for a couple of centuries now, and during that time, became the wealthiest, the strongest, and the most desirable place to move to in the entire world.

Quite the contrary, we WILL fix this country one all you old white bitter clingers do the world a favor and die off.

Yes, I know. Been hearing that for about 35 years now.

 

[Flopper]

Maybe you should stop worrying about the worry and fear and see that socialism is nothing to fear since it doesn't exist in the US.

Well I'm sorry, but it does in sectors of our country. What are our social programs if not socialism? What is taking from the rich to give to the poor if not socialism? What is trying to make everybody "equal" if not socialism?

Social programs are not socialism. They can be a step toward socialism just as private ownership can be a step toward capitalism. Having many social programs does not make a socialist nation any more than having a lot of private ownership make a capitalist nation. The success of social program determines whether it promotes more socialism or more capitalism.

Social programs do promote socialism. Surveys of younger people show a majority of them now believe socialism should be the future of this country. How did that happen, because they were raised with the belief of personal responsibility, hard work, taking financial risks, and a goal of financial success?

Just like I was talking about my HUD neighbors next door yesterday. You look at them, having a great time, making noise like they did when they lived in the inner city, living like kings, and then ask yourself WTF am I waking up early every morning to go to work????

Or when you get behind those food stamp people who are buying food you don't want to spend money on for yourself, and then they buy their cigarettes, alcohol, huge bags of dog food, cat litter, perfume and flowers and whip out a wad of cash. Again, people like myself just ask WTF am I working to support that?

Sometimes you feel like giving up after a while, and many people do. The Democrats celebrate it too. After a while, people say to themselves "I want to live like that too" and start to get a negative attitude about chasing success and having pride.

If social programs promote socialism, then what you're saying is social programs promote common ownership of the means of production and private property. That's a pretty big jump.

Take a look at most the capitalism countries and you will find they provide generous social welfare programs. For example, Hong Kong is often listed as the most capitalist county in the world. They have government run hospitals and clinics, non-contributory social security, elder care that far exceeds that of the US, housing for the poor, government meal plans, job programs, a wide array of family services available to all, and free public schools that are among best in the world. The idea that cutting out social programs would some how make America great is completely absurd.

No one advocates eliminating all social programs.
Some perhaps, many even.
Limiting ever expanding programs should be the priority.
Restricting, Regulating and Reforming the rest.
Benefits for illegal aliens, ZERO.

Welfare spending peaked during the recession and has been falling off for several years and is expected to continue through 2020. From the graph it appears welfare spending as a percent of GDP will be back to where it was in the 1960's.

Spending federal federal dollars on illegal immigrants has been illegal for many years. However, that does not mean that state funding can't be used.
US Government Welfare Spending History with Charts - a www.usgovernmentspending.com briefing

 

[initforme]

So Ray do you want any Americans working for those wages? I don't. Those wages are not American. Message to businesses...pay up or move out...we will help you pack.

 

[initforme]

Pretend to pay me i pretend to work....words for American workers to live by. You owe your employer a good days work...no loyalty. That should NEVER enter the equation.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

My kids are well versed in how big money, much of it earned underhandedly, influences our sick twisted political system..Ray I know you agree with me on this.

The people with money have little influence compared to larger groups of people that can give politicians power.

That's besides this urban legend that all rich people are Republicans. The most noteworthy are Democrats: Bill Gates, the late Steve Jobs, Warren Buffet, George Soros........

What I'm saying is that the rich people (on both sides) cancel each other out when it comes to political persuasion.