Do liberals even like this country?

[initforme]

Ray your hatred of working folk is duly noted. You believe they should be loyal hard-working people for the good of the company....those days thankfully are over. Now workers who are sought after can keep the company on edge...I condone it. They may walk away when most needed. Again I CONDONE that.

 

[initforme]

Take big money out of politics. Limit the freedom of huge money. That's a start.

 

[initforme]

yes corporations have a major influence....that needs to be taken down a big notch.

 

[MaryL]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

Of course not. I used to be a liberal. liberals think of themselves as cosmopolitan and citizens of the world. They have nothing but contempt for such backwards ideals like nationalism. They refer to National socialism, and use snarkasm like the spineless conformist swine they are.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Ray your hatred of working folk is duly noted. You believe they should be loyal hard-working people for the good of the company....those days thankfully are over. Now workers who are sought after can keep the company on edge...I condone it. They may walk away when most needed. Again I CONDONE that.

When did I say that? What I said is everybody is in charge of their own destiny. If you don't like the wages you make, then work for yourself. Start your own company and pay your employees what you want. It's a lesson you will remember for a long time when your competitors put you out of business in a year or two.

 

[initforme]

i owned my own company and paid my employees well. They were union carpenters because the non union workers showed up when they Dr like it. Plus their work was much more polished.

 

[Flopper]

Maybe you should stop worrying about the worry and fear and see that socialism is nothing to fear since it doesn't exist in the US.

Well I'm sorry, but it does in sectors of our country. What are our social programs if not socialism? What is taking from the rich to give to the poor if not socialism? What is trying to make everybody "equal" if not socialism?

Social programs are not socialism. They can be a step toward socialism just as private ownership can be a step toward capitalism. Having many social programs does not make a socialist nation any more than having a lot of private ownership make a capitalist nation. The success of social program determines whether it promotes more socialism or more capitalism.

Social programs do promote socialism. Surveys of younger people show a majority of them now believe socialism should be the future of this country. How did that happen, because they were raised with the belief of personal responsibility, hard work, taking financial risks, and a goal of financial success?

Just like I was talking about my HUD neighbors next door yesterday. You look at them, having a great time, making noise like they did when they lived in the inner city, living like kings, and then ask yourself WTF am I waking up early every morning to go to work????

Or when you get behind those food stamp people who are buying food you don't want to spend money on for yourself, and then they buy their cigarettes, alcohol, huge bags of dog food, cat litter, perfume and flowers and whip out a wad of cash. Again, people like myself just ask WTF am I working to support that?

Sometimes you feel like giving up after a while, and many people do. The Democrats celebrate it too. After a while, people say to themselves "I want to live like that too" and start to get a negative attitude about chasing success and having pride.

If social programs promote socialism, then what you're saying is social programs promote common ownership of the means of production and private property. That's a pretty big jump.

Take a look at most the capitalism countries and you will find they provide generous social welfare programs. For example, Hong Kong is often listed as the most capitalist county in the world. They have government run hospitals and clinics, non-contributory social security, elder care that far exceeds that of the US, housing for the poor, government meal plans, job programs, a wide array of family services available to all, and free public schools that are among best in the world. The idea that cutting out social programs would some how make America great is completely absurd.

Now please explain what happens when all those working people decide to live on the government instead of paying taxes to support all those goodies.

This is what we Republicans call the cart theory: The townspeople pull an empty cart down the road and it flies almost effortlessly. As people get tired of pulling the cart and jump inside, the cart begins to move slower. When half of the people get in the cart and expect the other half to pull it, the cart stops.

With great pride, the Obama administration announced they created 20 million more new government dependents on Commie Care. Add to that the 20 million more he created on the food stamp role. Now just with those two programs alone, the Obama administration created 40 million more new government dependents. We are only a nation of 315 million people. That means Obama put over 1/8 of our population on government programs, and that's on top of the ones that were already there.

Your post illustrates one of the biggest misconceptions about social programs and work. A lot of people that work their ass off just to make ends meet believe it would be so wonderful just to sit around the house, do nothing, and collect government checks. However, that is not the way it is for two reasons:

• As any job counselor will tell you, people hate not having a job. A job is a status symbol. It tells the world that someone wants you. You have value. People that are out of work for long periods tell neighbors they have work when they don't. They lie to their spouses, children and friends. People have a need to do something with their lives, to feel that they have a purpose on earth and have something to contribute. They need to feel needed.
• Secondly, living in government housing on TANF, food stamps, and Medicaid is a hard life. There simple is not enough money to do anything other than exist. Also, many people go out their way to make sure you feel like shit. For example, at a supper market checkout counter, the cashier loudly announces you can't buy that stuff on food stamps. Your son sits in the school front office all day while his classmates go on a field trip that cost ten dollars. My son-in-law's family is on Medicaid. They have a seriously mentally ill daughter they care for at home. A couple of months ago, their child psychiatrist told them he would not be accepting Medicaid. They found another doctor about an hour's drive from their home. On their first appointment which was an hour and a half appointment, they arrived 15 mins late because there was a wreck on the freeway. They were told at the front desk they missed their appointment, would have to reschedule, and their was nothing available for another month. When my daughter complained she and whole waiting were told she should have nothing to complain about since she wasn't paying the bill.

If you think being on the dole is such a great life. You should try it.

 

[Flopper]

Yes Ray, there is a LOT of bullshit. Your logic is completely out of whack for a start.

Yes, Republicans don't like things that Democrats do, and Democrats don't like things that Republicans do, and somehow this is Republicans loving their country, because as always, the right decide that THEIR POLICIES are PATRIOTIC and Democrat policies are treason, or something like that. It's always been like that, go look at the right in Turkey or Israel or wherever.

I understand what this is trying to do, it's trying to force people to accept your view out of fear of being branded whatever you want to brand them as. In the 1950s-1990s it was Communists, now it could be a Muslim love, a Communist, a traitor, whatever, it's name calling at it's worst, bullying at it's worst and shows you don't have a decent argument to go by.

I'm not a Socialist Ray. I hate Socialism and Communism. But I also hate blatantly obvious bullshit and people who will say ANYTHING to get what they want, no matter how contradictory it is to the last thing they just said, and this is EXACTLY what you're doing.

Then I have no idea what you're reading when you read my posts. My point was that Republicans never try to compare other countries to ours because we believe we have the greatest country in the world. Liberals do not; always telling us how great it is in other places.

The fact that liberals want to change just about everything in America makes me wonder if you people even like this country--not because Democrat policies are treason, but because you are always telling us how wrong our country is compared to others because their systems are so superior to ours.

Bottom line is it seems we Republicans love our country while you on the left love other countries.

I guess I'll never understand some people. Kind of reminds me of what our state is doing now which is putting up sound barriers on the highways to make it a tad bit quieter for the homes that border the highway. To a liberal, this is logical. To a conservative, WTF did you buy a house next to the Fn highway for??? Now we are wasting tens of millions of dollars because you clowns bought cheaper homes by the highway, and then complained to your representatives about the noise!

So to me, it makes no sense when liberals complain we are not like other countries instead of packing your bags and going to these other countries. If it's so great there with their socialized medical care, their gun laws, their taxation, their election system, their education system, move and live in your utopia. But no. Instead, stay here and complain.

No Ray, your point is that everything Democrats do is rubbish and everything Republicans do is fucking amazing. That's your point, and it's bullshit.

So, it makes no sense to you when liberals complain about something and then want their country to be improved. Why? Because you're going to do everything to stop it happening because you want rich people to get richer, and poor people to go fuck themselves.

What exactly is your plan to improve America?

Will an 11 year old be able to go into the woods and shoot rabbits with a gun?

Could an 11 year old go fishing without having to pay the state?

Who cares?

Will an 11 year old have healthcare if he becomes sick?
Will he receive a good education?
Will he be safe walking home from school?


Under Republicans.....well....um...no
But he can hunt rabbits

The States offer a very cheap insurance for children 19 and under. That is true of both Pennsylvania and New Jersey. I don't know what other states have. In NJ doctor visits were $5 and shots were free. The rate was very reasonable --- much cheaper than a tattoo.

It's called Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP). It was expanded under Obamacare to cover more children. Like many programs, it will be on the chopping block to provide millions to fund tax cuts for those who are lucky enough to not need to it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well I'm sorry, but it does in sectors of our country. What are our social programs if not socialism? What is taking from the rich to give to the poor if not socialism? What is trying to make everybody "equal" if not socialism?

Social programs are not socialism. They can be a step toward socialism just as private ownership can be a step toward capitalism. Having many social programs does not make a socialist nation any more than having a lot of private ownership make a capitalist nation. The success of social program determines whether it promotes more socialism or more capitalism.

Social programs do promote socialism. Surveys of younger people show a majority of them now believe socialism should be the future of this country. How did that happen, because they were raised with the belief of personal responsibility, hard work, taking financial risks, and a goal of financial success?

Just like I was talking about my HUD neighbors next door yesterday. You look at them, having a great time, making noise like they did when they lived in the inner city, living like kings, and then ask yourself WTF am I waking up early every morning to go to work????

Or when you get behind those food stamp people who are buying food you don't want to spend money on for yourself, and then they buy their cigarettes, alcohol, huge bags of dog food, cat litter, perfume and flowers and whip out a wad of cash. Again, people like myself just ask WTF am I working to support that?

Sometimes you feel like giving up after a while, and many people do. The Democrats celebrate it too. After a while, people say to themselves "I want to live like that too" and start to get a negative attitude about chasing success and having pride.

If social programs promote socialism, then what you're saying is social programs promote common ownership of the means of production and private property. That's a pretty big jump.

Take a look at most the capitalism countries and you will find they provide generous social welfare programs. For example, Hong Kong is often listed as the most capitalist county in the world. They have government run hospitals and clinics, non-contributory social security, elder care that far exceeds that of the US, housing for the poor, government meal plans, job programs, a wide array of family services available to all, and free public schools that are among best in the world. The idea that cutting out social programs would some how make America great is completely absurd.

Now please explain what happens when all those working people decide to live on the government instead of paying taxes to support all those goodies.

This is what we Republicans call the cart theory: The townspeople pull an empty cart down the road and it flies almost effortlessly. As people get tired of pulling the cart and jump inside, the cart begins to move slower. When half of the people get in the cart and expect the other half to pull it, the cart stops.

With great pride, the Obama administration announced they created 20 million more new government dependents on Commie Care. Add to that the 20 million more he created on the food stamp role. Now just with those two programs alone, the Obama administration created 40 million more new government dependents. We are only a nation of 315 million people. That means Obama put over 1/8 of our population on government programs, and that's on top of the ones that were already there.

Your post illustrates one of the biggest misconceptions about social programs and work. A lot of people that work their ass off just to make ends meet believe it would be so wonderful just to sit around the house, do nothing, and collect government checks. However, that is not the way it is for two reasons:

• As any job counselor will tell you, people hate not having a job. A job is a status symbol. It tells the world that someone wants you. You have value. People that are out of work for long periods tell neighbors they have work when they don't. They lie to their spouses, children and friends. People have a need to do something with their lives, to feel that they have a purpose on earth and have something to contribute. They need to feel needed.
• Secondly, living in government housing on TANF, food stamps, and Medicaid is a hard life. There simple is not enough money to do anything other than exist. Also, many people go out their way to make sure you feel like shit. For example, at a supper market checkout counter, the cashier loudly announces you can't buy that stuff on food stamps. Your son sits in the school front office all day while his classmates go on a field trip that cost ten dollars. My son-in-law's family is on Medicaid. They have a seriously mentally ill daughter they care for at home. A couple of months ago, their child psychiatrist told them he would not be accepting Medicaid. They found another doctor about an hour's drive from their home. On their first appointment which was an hour and a half appointment, they arrived 15 mins late because there was a wreck on the freeway. They were told at the front desk they missed their appointment, would have to reschedule, and their was nothing available for another month. When my daughter complained she and whole waiting were told she should have nothing to complain about since she wasn't paying the bill.

If you think being on the dole is such a great life. You should try it.

Cash value of welfare spending to households in poverty greater than median household income

Census: Americans in ‘Poverty’ Typically Have Cell Phones, Computers, TVs, VCRS, AC, Washers, Dryers and Microwaves

Study: NY Welfare Recipients Eligible For More In Benefits Than Teachers Earn - Breitbart

Food stamp rolls plummet in states that restore work requirements

 

[francoHFW]

Then I have no idea what you're reading when you read my posts. My point was that Republicans never try to compare other countries to ours because we believe we have the greatest country in the world. Liberals do not; always telling us how great it is in other places.

The fact that liberals want to change just about everything in America makes me wonder if you people even like this country--not because Democrat policies are treason, but because you are always telling us how wrong our country is compared to others because their systems are so superior to ours.

Bottom line is it seems we Republicans love our country while you on the left love other countries.

I guess I'll never understand some people. Kind of reminds me of what our state is doing now which is putting up sound barriers on the highways to make it a tad bit quieter for the homes that border the highway. To a liberal, this is logical. To a conservative, WTF did you buy a house next to the Fn highway for??? Now we are wasting tens of millions of dollars because you clowns bought cheaper homes by the highway, and then complained to your representatives about the noise!

So to me, it makes no sense when liberals complain we are not like other countries instead of packing your bags and going to these other countries. If it's so great there with their socialized medical care, their gun laws, their taxation, their election system, their education system, move and live in your utopia. But no. Instead, stay here and complain.

No Ray, your point is that everything Democrats do is rubbish and everything Republicans do is fucking amazing. That's your point, and it's bullshit.

So, it makes no sense to you when liberals complain about something and then want their country to be improved. Why? Because you're going to do everything to stop it happening because you want rich people to get richer, and poor people to go fuck themselves.

What exactly is your plan to improve America?

Will an 11 year old be able to go into the woods and shoot rabbits with a gun?

Could an 11 year old go fishing without having to pay the state?

Who cares?

Will an 11 year old have healthcare if he becomes sick?
Will he receive a good education?
Will he be safe walking home from school?


Under Republicans.....well....um...no
But he can hunt rabbits

The States offer a very cheap insurance for children 19 and under. That is true of both Pennsylvania and New Jersey. I don't know what other states have. In NJ doctor visits were $5 and shots were free. The rate was very reasonable --- much cheaper than a tattoo.

When I was 7, doctor visits were $27, I found a receipt the other night. The other day I paid $92. fair enough.

Thanks to ACA...

 

[francoHFW]

Social programs are not socialism. They can be a step toward socialism just as private ownership can be a step toward capitalism. Having many social programs does not make a socialist nation any more than having a lot of private ownership make a capitalist nation. The success of social program determines whether it promotes more socialism or more capitalism.

Social programs do promote socialism. Surveys of younger people show a majority of them now believe socialism should be the future of this country. How did that happen, because they were raised with the belief of personal responsibility, hard work, taking financial risks, and a goal of financial success?

Just like I was talking about my HUD neighbors next door yesterday. You look at them, having a great time, making noise like they did when they lived in the inner city, living like kings, and then ask yourself WTF am I waking up early every morning to go to work????

Or when you get behind those food stamp people who are buying food you don't want to spend money on for yourself, and then they buy their cigarettes, alcohol, huge bags of dog food, cat litter, perfume and flowers and whip out a wad of cash. Again, people like myself just ask WTF am I working to support that?

Sometimes you feel like giving up after a while, and many people do. The Democrats celebrate it too. After a while, people say to themselves "I want to live like that too" and start to get a negative attitude about chasing success and having pride.

If social programs promote socialism, then what you're saying is social programs promote common ownership of the means of production and private property. That's a pretty big jump.

Take a look at most the capitalism countries and you will find they provide generous social welfare programs. For example, Hong Kong is often listed as the most capitalist county in the world. They have government run hospitals and clinics, non-contributory social security, elder care that far exceeds that of the US, housing for the poor, government meal plans, job programs, a wide array of family services available to all, and free public schools that are among best in the world. The idea that cutting out social programs would some how make America great is completely absurd.

Now please explain what happens when all those working people decide to live on the government instead of paying taxes to support all those goodies.

This is what we Republicans call the cart theory: The townspeople pull an empty cart down the road and it flies almost effortlessly. As people get tired of pulling the cart and jump inside, the cart begins to move slower. When half of the people get in the cart and expect the other half to pull it, the cart stops.

With great pride, the Obama administration announced they created 20 million more new government dependents on Commie Care. Add to that the 20 million more he created on the food stamp role. Now just with those two programs alone, the Obama administration created 40 million more new government dependents. We are only a nation of 315 million people. That means Obama put over 1/8 of our population on government programs, and that's on top of the ones that were already there.

Your post illustrates one of the biggest misconceptions about social programs and work. A lot of people that work their ass off just to make ends meet believe it would be so wonderful just to sit around the house, do nothing, and collect government checks. However, that is not the way it is for two reasons:

• As any job counselor will tell you, people hate not having a job. A job is a status symbol. It tells the world that someone wants you. You have value. People that are out of work for long periods tell neighbors they have work when they don't. They lie to their spouses, children and friends. People have a need to do something with their lives, to feel that they have a purpose on earth and have something to contribute. They need to feel needed.
• Secondly, living in government housing on TANF, food stamps, and Medicaid is a hard life. There simple is not enough money to do anything other than exist. Also, many people go out their way to make sure you feel like shit. For example, at a supper market checkout counter, the cashier loudly announces you can't buy that stuff on food stamps. Your son sits in the school front office all day while his classmates go on a field trip that cost ten dollars. My son-in-law's family is on Medicaid. They have a seriously mentally ill daughter they care for at home. A couple of months ago, their child psychiatrist told them he would not be accepting Medicaid. They found another doctor about an hour's drive from their home. On their first appointment which was an hour and a half appointment, they arrived 15 mins late because there was a wreck on the freeway. They were told at the front desk they missed their appointment, would have to reschedule, and their was nothing available for another month. When my daughter complained she and whole waiting were told she should have nothing to complain about since she wasn't paying the bill.

If you think being on the dole is such a great life. You should try it.

Cash value of welfare spending to households in poverty greater than median household income

Census: Americans in ‘Poverty’ Typically Have Cell Phones, Computers, TVs, VCRS, AC, Washers, Dryers and Microwaves

Study: NY Welfare Recipients Eligible For More In Benefits Than Teachers Earn - Breitbart

Food stamp rolls plummet in states that restore work requirements

All hateful GOP propaganda. Same value my butt.
That are old pieces of shytte...
BS.
They ALL have to look for work...Work suqs if you only get $20/mo....

After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole? JUST A DUPE, brainwashed...

 

[frigidweirdo]

The Government acts as a referee ensuring a level playing field

Show me where any of our founders thought that's what our federal government should be for--leveling the playing field.

So, you're okay with one small group of people taking over the country and doing as they see fit with it, disregarding what the people thing and want?

Like who? Who are these people "taking over" the country? And what does that have to do with our federal governments responsibilities?

Who?

Koch Brothers’ Budget of $889 Million for 2016 Is on Par With Both Parties’ Spending

"The political network overseen by the conservative billionaires Charles G. and David H. Koch plans to spend close to $900 million on the 2016 campaign,"

Political Parties Overview | OpenSecrets

In 2016 the Democrats spent about $2 billion, the Republicans spent about $1.6 billion.

So, for that $3.6 billion being spent, you have two people spending nearly 1/3rd of this money. There might be more money that this going around, it's not always easy to find out.

But certainly, if these two individuals are spending 1/3rd of all money being spent by the two political parties, how much do you think they want in return.

Who Are the Koch Brothers and What Do They Want? | HuffPost

"he Koch brothers are the second wealthiest family in America, making most of their money in the fossil fuel industry. "

"Given the reality that the Koch brothers are now the most important and powerful players in American politics,"

"It is not widely known that David Koch was the Libertarian Party vice-presidential candidate in 1980. He believed that Ronald Reagan was much too liberal. '

"Fast-forward 34 years and the most significant reality of modern politics is how successful David Koch and like-minded billionaires have been in moving the Republican Party to the extreme right. Amazingly, much of what was considered “extremist” and “kooky” in 1980 has become part of today’s mainstream Republican thinking."

"“It’s no wonder the candidates show up when the Koch brothers call,” said David Axelrod, a former senior adviser to Mr. Obama. “That’s exponentially more money than any party organization will spend. In many ways, they have superseded the party.”"

On the other side you have Soros

Koch Bros. and George Soros: How America's High-Profile Political Donors Compare - IVN.us

Here estimates of how much they both spend are $118 million to $77 million. It would appear that are spending more money than this now. When one spends more, the other has to spend more to keep up.

Top Individual Contributors: All Federal Contributions | OpenSecrets

Here's a list of top individual donors. The Koch Brothers are at number 53 with $4 million. Which we know just isn't true. This is the problem, and why the page is called "open secrets", because people can funnel money into the system without caring.

So why do they control everything? Well because they managed to spend lots of money (surprise surprise) on making sure the Supreme Court agreed with them.

In Citizens United vs the Federal Election Commission 558 U.S. 310 (2010) the Supreme Court ruled, 5-4, meaning Kennedy, Roberts, Alito, Scalia and Thomas (that's Dubya's 3, plus Reagan's 2, what a surprise) who decided to open up politics to the highest bidder. Yes, the Republicans aren't working for YOU, they're working for the RICH.

The Political One Percent of the One Percent

"If you think wealth is concentrated in the United States, just wait till you look at the data on campaign spending."

"In the 2010 election cycle, 26,783 individuals (or slightly less than one in ten thousand Americans) each contributed more than $10,000 to federal political campaigns. Combined, these donors spent $774 million. That’s 24.3% of the total from individuals to politicians, parties, PACs, and independent expenditure groups. Together, they would fill only two-thirds of the 41,222 seats at Nationals Park the baseball field two miles from the U.S. Capitol. When it comes to politics, they are The One Percent of the One Percent."

Now, this report is from 2011.

How much do the 1% of the 1% control politics?

Here's a chart showing how much the 0.01% of donors who are very rich and flash their cash in politics.

They're close to 50% of the spending now. 40% in 2012.

These people control politics because they say "If you want our money, you need to do what we want you to do", so the politicians know they need the money. It's no longer a case of having a message that people will like. There are TOO MANY PEOPLE. A message doesn't win you an election, it's all about advertising yourself to death so people support you.

Cost to win congressional election skyrockets - CNNPolitics.com

The cost of winning an election, on average (depends where you are), shows that from 1986 to 2012 there's a 344% increase in how much people need to spend to win a seat, and the Senate costs much more, and has increased 62% in this time, and now, it's probably going through the roof in some places.

This is more or less before the court case I spoke about before.

So, who controls the govt? It certain is not the voters.

 

[Wyatt earp]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

It's their country too. Just because you have certain things that you think are Utopia, so do they. They happen to think their ideal country is different from yours. The country you have now is a lot different from the country your FF's created. Some bits for good, some for bad.

Most liberals I know don't want to change every aspect of it at all. Just another myth created by the right trying to make out they are 'true' Americans.

Considering you don't live here , you don't have a clue how bad liberals fuck up their own cities/states then move on to greener pastures and then try to fuck up that place also.

.

 

[Wyatt earp]

The Government acts as a referee ensuring a level playing field

Show me where any of our founders thought that's what our federal government should be for--leveling the playing field.

So, you're okay with one small group of people taking over the country and doing as they see fit with it, disregarding what the people thing and want?

Like who? Who are these people "taking over" the country? And what does that have to do with our federal governments responsibilities?

Who?

Koch Brothers’ Budget of $889 Million for 2016 Is on Par With Both Parties’ Spending

"The political network overseen by the conservative billionaires Charles G. and David H. Koch plans to spend close to $900 million on the 2016 campaign,"

Political Parties Overview | OpenSecrets

In 2016 the Democrats spent about $2 billion, the Republicans spent about $1.6 billion.

So, for that $3.6 billion being spent, you have two people spending nearly 1/3rd of this money. There might be more money that this going around, it's not always easy to find out.

But certainly, if these two individuals are spending 1/3rd of all money being spent by the two political parties, how much do you think they want in return.

Who Are the Koch Brothers and What Do They Want? | HuffPost

"he Koch brothers are the second wealthiest family in America, making most of their money in the fossil fuel industry. "

"Given the reality that the Koch brothers are now the most important and powerful players in American politics,"

"It is not widely known that David Koch was the Libertarian Party vice-presidential candidate in 1980. He believed that Ronald Reagan was much too liberal. '

"Fast-forward 34 years and the most significant reality of modern politics is how successful David Koch and like-minded billionaires have been in moving the Republican Party to the extreme right. Amazingly, much of what was considered “extremist” and “kooky” in 1980 has become part of today’s mainstream Republican thinking."

"“It’s no wonder the candidates show up when the Koch brothers call,” said David Axelrod, a former senior adviser to Mr. Obama. “That’s exponentially more money than any party organization will spend. In many ways, they have superseded the party.”"

On the other side you have Soros

Koch Bros. and George Soros: How America's High-Profile Political Donors Compare - IVN.us

Here estimates of how much they both spend are $118 million to $77 million. It would appear that are spending more money than this now. When one spends more, the other has to spend more to keep up.

Top Individual Contributors: All Federal Contributions | OpenSecrets

Here's a list of top individual donors. The Koch Brothers are at number 53 with $4 million. Which we know just isn't true. This is the problem, and why the page is called "open secrets", because people can funnel money into the system without caring.

So why do they control everything? Well because they managed to spend lots of money (surprise surprise) on making sure the Supreme Court agreed with them.

In Citizens United vs the Federal Election Commission 558 U.S. 310 (2010) the Supreme Court ruled, 5-4, meaning Kennedy, Roberts, Alito, Scalia and Thomas (that's Dubya's 3, plus Reagan's 2, what a surprise) who decided to open up politics to the highest bidder. Yes, the Republicans aren't working for YOU, they're working for the RICH.

The Political One Percent of the One Percent

"If you think wealth is concentrated in the United States, just wait till you look at the data on campaign spending."

"In the 2010 election cycle, 26,783 individuals (or slightly less than one in ten thousand Americans) each contributed more than $10,000 to federal political campaigns. Combined, these donors spent $774 million. That’s 24.3% of the total from individuals to politicians, parties, PACs, and independent expenditure groups. Together, they would fill only two-thirds of the 41,222 seats at Nationals Park the baseball field two miles from the U.S. Capitol. When it comes to politics, they are The One Percent of the One Percent."

Now, this report is from 2011.

How much do the 1% of the 1% control politics?

Here's a chart showing how much the 0.01% of donors who are very rich and flash their cash in politics.

They're close to 50% of the spending now. 40% in 2012.

These people control politics because they say "If you want our money, you need to do what we want you to do", so the politicians know they need the money. It's no longer a case of having a message that people will like. There are TOO MANY PEOPLE. A message doesn't win you an election, it's all about advertising yourself to death so people support you.

Cost to win congressional election skyrockets - CNNPolitics.com

The cost of winning an election, on average (depends where you are), shows that from 1986 to 2012 there's a 344% increase in how much people need to spend to win a seat, and the Senate costs much more, and has increased 62% in this time, and now, it's probably going through the roof in some places.

This is more or less before the court case I spoke about before.

So, who controls the govt? It certain is not the voters.

A message doesn't win you an election, it's all about advertising yourself to death so people support you.


A message doesn't win an election? Then with that logic, Hillary should of won, pajama boy should of won in Georgia

 

[Wyatt earp]

No it doesn't, but since we are not a socialist society yet, it's the conservatives that will help stop it from being that way. Remember: once liberals ruin this place and turn it into all the others, there is no other USA to move to. Unlike other liberal and socialist countries, there is only one USA.

And there is only one Germany. One UK. One Australia. One Canada. What is your point? That the US is the Utopia that every immigrant aspires to go to? Um, no.

Uhn yes...Look at you claiming to be a foreigner messing around on not a German site, or Canada or German site but a US site..


.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Like in what socialist country, dupe? NONE. Very scary tho, cold war dinosaur.

Venezuela? Cuba? China? This Dino seems to be pretty alive and well.

Not Venezuela. That's still socialist, tho a mess.. Communist dictatorships, ok. Duh, cold war dinosaur dupe. Think Australia and NZ.

Is Australia communist? Did I miss that transition?

They're socialist, Red China and Cuba are communist. Only Americans need this explained.

The min wage in OZ is $19, and they have everything Dems want and are damn happy. Reaganism and its propaganda suq.

Yea we know a box of Captain crunch cost $25 damn dollars in Australia, where we can get it for $2 bucks.

 

[francoHFW]

Venezuela? Cuba? China? This Dino seems to be pretty alive and well.

Not Venezuela. That's still socialist, tho a mess.. Communist dictatorships, ok. Duh, cold war dinosaur dupe. Think Australia and NZ.

Is Australia communist? Did I miss that transition?

They're socialist, Red China and Cuba are communist. Only Americans need this explained.

The min wage in OZ is $19, and they have everything Dems want and are damn happy. Reaganism and its propaganda suq.

Yea we know a box of Captain crunch cost $25 damn dollars in Australia, where we can get it for $2 bucks.

All shipping costs duh...

 

[Wyatt earp]

Not Venezuela. That's still socialist, tho a mess.. Communist dictatorships, ok. Duh, cold war dinosaur dupe. Think Australia and NZ.

Is Australia communist? Did I miss that transition?

They're socialist, Red China and Cuba are communist. Only Americans need this explained.

The min wage in OZ is $19, and they have everything Dems want and are damn happy. Reaganism and its propaganda suq.

Yea we know a box of Captain crunch cost $25 damn dollars in Australia, where we can get it for $2 bucks.

All shipping costs duh...

$23 bucks worth?

 

[Wyatt earp]

Is Australia communist? Did I miss that transition?

They're socialist, Red China and Cuba are communist. Only Americans need this explained.

The min wage in OZ is $19, and they have everything Dems want and are damn happy. Reaganism and its propaganda suq.

Yea we know a box of Captain crunch cost $25 damn dollars in Australia, where we can get it for $2 bucks.

All shipping costs duh...

$23 bucks worth?

I think I will make a gold mine and smuggle into Australia boxes and boxes of Captain crunch cerial.. just call me the captain crunch mob boss

.

 

[francoHFW]

wine in india

They're socialist, Red China and Cuba are communist. Only Americans need this explained.

The min wage in OZ is $19, and they have everything Dems want and are damn happy. Reaganism and its propaganda suq.

Yea we know a box of Captain crunch cost $25 damn dollars in Australia, where we can get it for $2 bucks.

All shipping costs duh...

$23 bucks worth?

I think I will make a gold mine and smuggle into Australia boxes and boxes of Captain crunch cerial.. just call me the captain crunch mob boss

.

Meant no such thing. It wouldn't work. or somebody would. That girl was silly...