Do liberals even like this country?

[Wyatt earp]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

As with most conservatives/libertarians, you've misidentified the 'enemy'. How much do you think the corporate elite like this country when the primary goals are to outsource production and manufacturing labor to the cheapest countries they can find and relocate profits to offshore tax havens? How much do they like the country when they view incarceration and health care for the citizenry as profit centers?

Health care has always been for profit in this country. Insurance and medical professionals all make money in healthcare. What do you suggest, that they all work for free?

Businesses cater to their customers and customer demands. We in the US demand cheaply made products. HTF can you blame businesses for providing their customers with what they want? Would you rather they provide overpriced products that their consumers won't buy? Would you invest your money in a business few people want?

I've worked for enough cheap bastards that I'll never patronize them even if they do offer the lowest price. The reason that most corporations outsource labor is not so they can offer their customers a cheaper product. It's because they can make more profit from the cheaply made product. I'd have to have no alternative but the cheap foreign stuff to buy the product of third world or slave labor.

As for healthcare, a growing number of people in this country are seeing that the profit motive has fucked them royally and are looking to the Europeans for a better solution.

And you think Europe has better solutions to healthcare? Now in Britain, if you are too obese or use tobacco products, they won't provide any surgery if you need to be operated on. Bad genetics? Die. Addicted to a legal product? Die.

You may not buy cheaper products made elsewhere, but you are in the minority. Walmart didn't become number one in this country because they sell the highest priced or best quality products.

Yes, companies move to make lower priced products. Our unions and consumers chased them right out of the country. Government regulations too are no help. And trust me, one of our customers makes crates that I delivered to companies preparing to leave the state or country. None of them wanted to leave, but it was either leave or join their employees in the unemployment line. In almost all cases, these were union run companies too.

The problem is when one company of a specified industry moves, they all just about have to move because the first company that moved begins to steal customers from the companies that remain here. So their choice is move or pay lower wages to compete.

I once met a guy from England at a national park. We started to talk about healthcare and I told him how my wife had had a heat procedure and the stack of bills I had to deal with was a half inch thick and I had to dispute about a third of them. My out of pocket was just under $15,000
He told me he had heart surgery the year before, he showed his insurance card and never saw a bill

Until he went to fill up his car with $10 a litre gas and bought a $5 dollar Snickers bar..



Gtfo you ever hear of a 20% VAT ?


.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Walmart pays their workers no less than similar stores like Target or K-Mart. You've been brainwashed by the left to believe that Walmart is somehow different. They are not. Walmart offers employees the best shot at advancement. I knew one person who left his industry job to work at Walmart full time. He was part-time making extra money, but they offered him a management position that had better pay and medical benefits. Speaking of which......

I was using Walmart as an example, but sure, you can swap in Target if you want because they're in the same boat. So while true there are retailers that pay similarly to target, there are retailers like Costco that pay their workers $18/hr. So if Costco can do it, and still remain profitable, why can't Walmart?

The Democrats have you hypnotized on shelf stockers and floor sweepers. The truth is Walmart treats their management very well, they treat their office personnel very well, their warehouse people do great, and so do Walmart truck drivers.

The overwhelming majority of Walmart workers are not those people. And the millions of Walmart workers who get welfare because of their low wages, are not those people. So you're trying to deflect from the obvious truth that Walmart pays its workers like shit, by invoking a narrow group of employees within Walmart while ignoring the rest.

If you believe we are subsidizing Walmart workers, vote conservative, because Walmart doesn't control our social programs--government does. Walmart has nothing to do with it.

Of course we're subsidizing their profits. If Walmart paid their workers a living wage, they'd make $8B in profit instead of $14B.

You have that backwards Walmart is subsiding the US welfare program, with out them 1 million Americans would be out of work sucking down welfare.


.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I mentioned this several times before and I will say this again.
Since most or all of you do not have access to foreign countries like Asian, European, South/Central America countries.

Trump made us ignorant, stupid and laughingstock in this part of the world. From climate accord, foreign policy to domestic policy. Sad.

I debate live and it's very painful when they crushed or nailed me----- You have a fucking hypocrite president. I cannot defend it.

Then don't. We'll do just fine without you.

Don't? How?
I'm an American talking to foreigners.
It's the same like you I'm talking to a racist.

Without me? Let me ask you an honest question. Between you and me----- Who do you think is more desirable citizen? I know for sure that hate group and racist people are the undesirable (the rejects) citizens of America.

You leftists are so confused you don't even understand why America is rejecting you more and more every year. We are sick and tired of hearing and reading this racist crap every time you liberals open your mouth. It's like sitting at the bar next to a drunk who keeps repeating the same story about his job over and over again.

But I applaud you for being part of the force that's killing your own party. In fact, whoever decides to run for the presidency on the Democrat side next election, make sure you write to him or her and stress how important it is to use the word "deplorable" when talking about Republicans.

Bloody BULLSHIT.
No dude I'm not confused I'm just telling you the reality.
Remember of the 212 millions registered voters anemically Trump only garnered 63+ millions voted for Trump. That number is dwindling fast.
Majority of Americans reject Trump. That's the reality. So don't tell me America is rejecting us.
As far as RACIST---- I branded you a a racist, you are so proud being a racist, you posted link catered to hate group etc etc etc.
So what is your credibility? Nothing but hatred against your fellow Americans.

Oh yes I can't wait for the next election.

Why, you can't wait for the Russians to hack it again and watch the Democrats lose?


Bwahahaha...



.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I mentioned this several times before and I will say this again.
Since most or all of you do not have access to foreign countries like Asian, European, South/Central America countries.

Trump made us ignorant, stupid and laughingstock in this part of the world. From climate accord, foreign policy to domestic policy. Sad.

I debate live and it's very painful when they crushed or nailed me----- You have a fucking hypocrite president. I cannot defend it.

Then don't. We'll do just fine without you.

Don't? How?
I'm an American talking to foreigners.
It's the same like you I'm talking to a racist.

Without me? Let me ask you an honest question. Between you and me----- Who do you think is more desirable citizen? I know for sure that hate group and racist people are the undesirable (the rejects) citizens of America.

You leftists are so confused you don't even understand why America is rejecting you more and more every year. We are sick and tired of hearing and reading this racist crap every time you liberals open your mouth. It's like sitting at the bar next to a drunk who keeps repeating the same story about his job over and over again.

But I applaud you for being part of the force that's killing your own party. In fact, whoever decides to run for the presidency on the Democrat side next election, make sure you write to him or her and stress how important it is to use the word "deplorable" when talking about Republicans.

Bloody BULLSHIT.
No dude I'm not confused I'm just telling you the reality.
Remember of the 212 millions registered voters anemically Trump only garnered 63+ millions voted for Trump. That number is dwindling fast.
Majority of Americans reject Trump. That's the reality. So don't tell me America is rejecting us.
As far as RACIST---- I branded you a a racist, you are so proud being a racist, you posted link catered to hate group etc etc etc.
So what is your credibility? Nothing but hatred against your fellow Americans.

Oh yes I can't wait for the next election.

Why, you can't wait for the Russians to hack it again and watch the Democrats lose?


Bwahahaha...



.

Btw I bet this was your favorite pizza place



No?







.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So none of those editorials actually cite specific regulations. Just like your post, they are vague and general on the details. And besides, even with those regulations, corporate profits reached record highs every year of Obama's term. So these companies plead hardship and burdens even though they break profit records each year. So something is fishy in that, right? How could these regulations be costing business if business is making record profits? Because they're not costing business. It's just bullshit that you take as gospel, why? Like a corporation has never lied about its motivations before? Like Conservatives have never lied about the effects of regulation before? Come on.

Yes, something was fishy, it's called Quantitive Easing.

Some companies did great because they were in the market--a market that was fixed just for them. With the federal reserve dumping trillions of dollars into the market, it was artificially inflated. That's why we never had as many rich people get richer than under Dumbama.

But okay, you want one specific? Fine. Commie Care.

Commie Care forced employers to provide health insurance or pay a fine. Mind you, this was for companies that had 50 or more employees. So small businesses that had growth potential avoided crossing that 50 employee mark. They either outsourced work, hired foreigners (since foreigners didn't count as workers) pressured their workforce to work a lot of overtime, or only created part-time jobs. And I'm sure those regulations influenced some companies to invest in automation. Yes, a jobs killer.

So first of all, yes, companies most definitely collude with one another even though they compete with one another. They collude to maintain market share by pushing smaller companies out (see: telecom/internet/cable companies). They collude to fix prices for things with absolutely no justification for it (see: health insurance). And they have formed the fucking Chamber of Commerce specifically for those purposes. So to say businesses don't collude is to be woefully ignorant of our capitalist society. You ascribe values to our economic system that simply are not there. Then you expect me to pretend as if you know what you're talking about? Why? Why should I believe you?

Why would companies collude with each other if they are competing with each other? That doesn't even make a lick of sense.

Okay, so you own a widget company. You want to collude with all other businesses that make widgets or businesses that have something to do with making widgets. How would you go about doing that? Would you hold an assembly in a sports arena? Would you have a cookout and invite the tens of thousands of business owners over? How would you go about this collusion?

There is no collusion when it comes to businesses because they compete against each other. That's what helps keep prices down.

So two things to this:

1. All that proves is the need for a Universal Basic Income - if robots are taking all the jobs, then how is the economy supposed to grow as workers are pushed out of the market by automation? Since 70% of our economy is consumer spending, how do you maintain that proportion without having to rely on credit? The answer is a universal basic income that guarantees consumer spending.
2. So you think American workers, in order to remain competitive with robots, should work for free????

No. What American workers need to do now is learn a trade, open a business, or go to college.

Monkey jobs don't pay anything anymore. This is not the 70's when we didn't have the technology to replace human workers. To survive today, you need to have a specialized field of work. You can no longer drop out of high school, get a job at the steel mills and make 80K per year with no experience or education.

Bullshit. It is always a dollar factor. The bottom line is all that matters in business. You could have a business that doesn't grow, yet you increase your profit margins by cutting costs. It's what's been standard practice by business for the last 40 years. So it's never really about growth, it's about profits. Those are mutually exclusive.

If you increase your profit margin by cutting costs, you increase your growth as well.

It's all about growth and nothing to do with company value. If you don't have investors in your company, you don't have the money to expand operations, maintain operations, innovate. If you lose investors, you need to borrow money from an institution and pay interest rates. That's why companies offer stocks--so they have access to cash without paying interest rates. The only time they payout money is when there is growth.

The more profitable one. Growth is fungible but profits aren't. Just because a company grows doesn't mean it's profitable. See Netflix for that one. Netflix is about $20B in debt, most likely hasn't run a profit since the days when it was a DVD-by-mail company. Since those days, Netflix has grown into the #1 streaming video service. But their profits? Non-existent. So would I invest in Netflix long-term? No. Because they're inflating a debt bubble and aren't showing profits. That's going to lead to the company either having to cut its costs (by laying off workforce and/or not licensing content and/or not producing as much original content), or get bought before anyone realizes what is happening.

If you are looking at profits to invest your money in, let's hope you never have that kind of money to invest.

Investors know that company growth (not necessarily profits) is how you make your own money grow. In many cases, they are proportional. In other cases (as you outlined) they are not. So companies look for growth to attract investors. It doesn't matter if the company is worth 20 billion or 20 million. Irrelevant for companies looking for investors as well as investors themselves looking to invest.

 

[initforme]

You are correct Ray. A worker must get trained so they are needed and use this skill NASTILY against his emp!oyer. Agreed.

 

[Conservative65]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

They claim to love it and the Constitution yet constantly complain about how things are done properly and how the Constitution needs to be updated. I'm not surprised. They claim to care about those they say need the most then show that compassion by seeing how much they can force someone else to pay for it.

You don't hear that from federalists. We know, Our Founding Fathers did an Most Excellent job with our federal Constitution and supreme law of the land.

They did. Why do you leftists try to change it if they did?

lol. Just right wing fantasy? Both terms, promote and provide are used in reference to the general welfare, but not the common defense.

But neither of the term promote and provide in reference to general welfare equate to social welfare. Sorry, troll, you've been proven wrong again.

 

[Moonglow]

Then don't. We'll do just fine without you.

Don't? How?
I'm an American talking to foreigners.
It's the same like you I'm talking to a racist.

Without me? Let me ask you an honest question. Between you and me----- Who do you think is more desirable citizen? I know for sure that hate group and racist people are the undesirable (the rejects) citizens of America.

You leftists are so confused you don't even understand why America is rejecting you more and more every year. We are sick and tired of hearing and reading this racist crap every time you liberals open your mouth. It's like sitting at the bar next to a drunk who keeps repeating the same story about his job over and over again.

But I applaud you for being part of the force that's killing your own party. In fact, whoever decides to run for the presidency on the Democrat side next election, make sure you write to him or her and stress how important it is to use the word "deplorable" when talking about Republicans.

Bloody BULLSHIT.
No dude I'm not confused I'm just telling you the reality.
Remember of the 212 millions registered voters anemically Trump only garnered 63+ millions voted for Trump. That number is dwindling fast.
Majority of Americans reject Trump. That's the reality. So don't tell me America is rejecting us.
As far as RACIST---- I branded you a a racist, you are so proud being a racist, you posted link catered to hate group etc etc etc.
So what is your credibility? Nothing but hatred against your fellow Americans.

Oh yes I can't wait for the next election.

Why, you can't wait for the Russians to hack it again and watch the Democrats lose?


Bwahahaha...



.

Btw I bet this was your favorite pizza place



No?







.

I bet it is his favorite pizza place..

 

[danielpalos]

Some on the left are liberal enough to want to advocate for abolishing the drug war, to pay for health care.

Marijuana Sales Totaled $6.7 Billion In 2016

 

[The Derp]

You have that backwards Walmart is subsiding the US welfare program, with out them 1 million Americans would be out of work sucking down welfare.

They're sucking down welfare right now. And they're sucking down welfare because Walmart won't pay them enough that they won't qualify for it. If Walmart paid its workers enough that they weren't eligible for welfare, then the Walton Family would make $8B in profit instead of $14B. And they're already among the wealthiest people in the world. Clearly, they can pay their employees more and still remain profitable. If Costco can do it, why can't Walmart?

 

[The Derp]

Yes, something was fishy, it's called Quantitive Easing. Some companies did great because they were in the market--a market that was fixed just for them. With the federal reserve dumping trillions of dollars into the market, it was artificially inflated. That's why we never had as many rich people get richer than under Dumbama.

So QE is why businesses record record profits? How so? It seems you have barely a superficial understanding of what QE is and what it did. QE wasn't the Fed handing money to corporations. QE was the Fed handing money to banks who would then trickle-down that money in the form of lending to businesses and consumers. So I'm confused why you are opposed to QE since it's supply-side economics at its most base form. QE is trickle-down. So now you're telling me you suddenly don't believe in the fundamentals of your economic dogma? Do you even realize you're doing it?

Commie Care forced employers to provide health insurance or pay a fine. Mind you, this was for companies that had 50 or more employees. So small businesses that had growth potential avoided crossing that 50 employee mark. They either outsourced work, hired foreigners (since foreigners didn't count as workers) pressured their workforce to work a lot of overtime, or only created part-time jobs. And I'm sure those regulations influenced some companies to invest in automation. Yes, a jobs killer.

So...since Obamacare was signed into law in March 2010, we've had the longest, uninterrupted streak of job creation this country has ever seen. That's 89 straight months of job creation that started the month Obamacare was signed into law. Wages also rose faster during Obama than they did during Bush (and have since Trump), and it's completely untrue that the jobs created were part-time. These are easily researched facts you chose not to look into, why? I think it's because you're incredibly lazy.

Part-time employment barely grew during Obama. In 2009, there were 27.24 million part-time workers. In 2016, there were 27.68 million part-time workers. So that's an increase of 420,000. In 2009, there were about 115,000,000 full-time workers. In 2016, there were about 124,000,000.

Why would companies collude with each other if they are competing with each other? That doesn't even make a lick of sense. kay, so you own a widget company. You want to collude with all other businesses that make widgets or businesses that have something to do with making widgets. How would you go about doing that? Would you hold an assembly in a sports arena? Would you have a cookout and invite the tens of thousands of business owners over? How would you go about this collusion?

Sigh...yes, there most certainly is collusion. You can see it in telecom/internet providers who carved up the country. You can't get Comcast XFinity in Los Angeles, and you can't get Time Warner Cable in Atlanta. It's willful delusion to think corporations don't collude to fix prices and preserve market share.

No. What American workers need to do now is learn a trade, open a business, or go to college.

They already do that. Again, how are you supposed to do that if robots have replaced workers? Then there's no money to maintain a business (because no one is spending), and learning a trade and/or college costs money. So if they don't have money in the first place, how are they to do those things?

Monkey jobs don't pay anything anymore. This is not the 70's when we didn't have the technology to replace human workers. To survive today, you need to have a specialized field of work. You can no longer drop out of high school, get a job at the steel mills and make 80K per year with no experience or education.

So you push everyone into a very narrow field and you expect jobs to just magically appear? The economy works best when it's diversified.

If you increase your profit margin by cutting costs, you increase your growth as well.

No you don't. Increasing your profit can be done without increasing your sales. Growth means your company's sales grow. Profits may attract investors, but that's not the same as seeing your company grow because people are buying more of your shit.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No you don't. Increasing your profit can be done without increasing your sales. Growth means your company's sales grow. Profits may attract investors, but that's not the same as seeing your company grow because people are buying more of your shit.

We were never discussing physical growth, we were discussing financial growth. They are not the same. For instance, Serius satellite radio had very strong physical growth when they signed on Howard Stern. Same when they bought out their competitor XM. But their financial growth lagged. Physical growth does not necessarily mean financial growth. In most cases, they are proportional. In any case, knowledgable investors are well aware of this, so it's not the major issue as financial growth is.

So you push everyone into a very narrow field and you expect jobs to just magically appear? The economy works best when it's diversified.

What do you mean by diversified?

They already do that. Again, how are you supposed to do that if robots have replaced workers? Then there's no money to maintain a business (because no one is spending), and learning a trade and/or college costs money. So if they don't have money in the first place, how are they to do those things?

Robots and machines don't replace all workers, they mostly replace blue collar workers.

This is why it's not a good idea to focus on being a blue collar worker in the future. A robot will never replace a plumber, a lawyer, a doctor or a nurse. The people who ride around on floor sweeping machines, turn nuts onto bolts, drill holes into parts, stamp parts are the ones in serious trouble.

I really don't know what the future holds for blue collar workers, but I'm glad I won't be around to see it happen.

As for college, you don't have to go to college six straight years in a row. You can work a few years, save money, and take courses at night or over the internet. If you are younger, you don't have to move out of your parents house the day you turn 18. Most parents will help support their children when it comes to advancing their education even if they don't have the money to contribute.

My niece and nephew are both college graduates. They are working hard to repay all the loans they took to get that education. They are in their early 30's now and probably won't repay everything they owe until they are in their 40's. Either that or one can join the military for the college benefits they offer.

Sigh...yes, there most certainly is collusion. You can see it in telecom/internet providers who carved up the country. You can't get Comcast XFinity in Los Angeles, and you can't get Time Warner Cable in Atlanta. It's willful delusion to think corporations don't collude to fix prices and preserve market share.

Most places have competition when it comes to technology. We have several cable/ satellite companies that offer service, and yes, they do compete against each other. Now they even have a HD digital antenna like the old television sets used to have. You can pickup a lot of channels for free. There is also a service that sells antennas, and you only pay for the stations you watch. If you only have a dozen or stations you watch, you can save yourself a lot of money.

So...since Obamacare was signed into law in March 2010, we've had the longest, uninterrupted streak of job creation this country has ever seen. That's 89 straight months of job creation that started the month Obamacare was signed into law. Wages also rose faster during Obama than they did during Bush (and have since Trump), and it's completely untrue that the jobs created were part-time. These are easily researched facts you chose not to look into, why? I think it's because you're incredibly lazy.

Median household wages were stagnant for several years since Commie Care passed. We had record loss of people in the workforce participation rate. We had excessive growth in government dependency. Even food stamp usage is still barely down since Obama's high just a few years back, and the only reason for that was because the Republican Congress cut funds and Republican Governors started to enforce food stamp qualifications.

Part-time employment barely grew during Obama. In 2009, there were 27.24 million part-time workers. In 2016, there were 27.68 million part-time workers. So that's an increase of 420,000. In 2009, there were about 115,000,000 full-time workers. In 2016, there were about 124,000,000.

So QE is why businesses record record profits? How so? It seems you have barely a superficial understanding of what QE is and what it did. QE wasn't the Fed handing money to corporations. QE was the Fed handing money to banks who would then trickle-down that money in the form of lending to businesses and consumers. So I'm confused why you are opposed to QE since it's supply-side economics at its most base form. QE is trickle-down. So now you're telling me you suddenly don't believe in the fundamentals of your economic dogma? Do you even realize you're doing it?

No, QE was pumping money into the stock market. That's how folks got rich off of it. Did you ever ask yourself why the economy was barely growing but the stock market was making record highs?

 

[The Derp]

We were never discussing physical growth, we were discussing financial growth

I thought we were discussing growth. You're now moving the goalposts. But OK...profit growth and company growth aren't one in the same and are actually mutually exclusive things. You can increase your company's profits while not increasing its sales. You do that by either increasing the price of whatever it is you produce, or by cutting costs (workforce, primarily). Cutting costs and increasing prices doesn't increase sales, however, and may actually harm them. You talked about how QE was all this inflated growth, yet here you are, arguing that inflated profits by way of cost cutting and price increases isn't artificial. When it totally is!

What do you mean by diversified?

Ummm...diversified economy means an economy that doesn't focus on a narrow set of objectives as you've defined it.

Robots and machines don't replace all workers, they mostly replace blue collar workers.
This is why it's not a good idea to focus on being a blue collar worker in the future. A robot will never replace a plumber, a lawyer, a doctor or a nurse. The people who ride around on floor sweeping machines, turn nuts onto bolts, drill holes into parts, stamp parts are the ones in serious trouble.

OK...I agree with that. So what do we do about it? You seem to think education and training are the answer. OK. So who pays for it? You're going to make it incumbent on the worker to pay for their own education and training, yet you've just said they can't earn until they have a job. So it's a total Catch-22 that I don't think you even realize. It sounds to me like you would support free public colleges and trade schools, since that's how you educate people. Is that what you support? If so, great! But who pays for it?

As for college, you don't have to go to college six straight years in a row. You can work a few years, save money, and take courses at night or over the internet. If you are younger, you don't have to move out of your parents house the day you turn 18. Most parents will help support their children when it comes to advancing their education even if they don't have the money to contribute.

I mean, look, I can post links all day showing the more educated you are, the higher an earner you become:

So it would seem the more time you spend in schools, the more money you make. Unless you're going to deny the plain facts in front of you. If you want everyone to reach their full potential, why are you handicapping people who come from low-income households? That sounds like the opposite of what you believe, TBH.

My niece and nephew are both college graduates. They are working hard to repay all the loans they took to get that education. They are in their early 30's now and probably won't repay everything they owe until they are in their 40's. Either that or one can join the military for the college benefits they offer.

So you say in order to prepare for the future, people need an education. But you also say that it is incumbent on those people to pay for their own education, that you just said they needed to prepare for the future. And you realize that not paying off student loans until you're 40 doesn't help the economy or your prospects. Because of these massive student loans people have because you've told them they need an education in order to earn in the workforce, those people delay things like starting a family and buying a home because of the debt burden they have. So how is that a solution to our economy or employment, if getting an education means you have to delay owning a home, getting married, or having kids? Employers also now look at your credit history and debt load when they hire you too. So if they're seeing you have hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, they may be less apt to hire you even if you are qualified.

Most places have competition when it comes to technology. We have several cable/ satellite companies that offer service, and yes, they do compete against each other. Now they even have a HD digital antenna like the old television sets used to have. You can pickup a lot of channels for free. There is also a service that sells antennas, and you only pay for the stations you watch. If you only have a dozen or stations you watch, you can save yourself a lot of money.

So Ray...I don't think you really know what you're talking about. You say that most places have competition on technology, which is an important caveat you left out of your original thought. When it comes to who offers you cable/internet service, you do not have competition and free choice because the cable/telecom companies colluded to carve up the United States in order to maintain market share:

Yes, Directv and Dish are sattellite and can go anywhere you get a clear view of the Southern Sky. But they're disruption (and BTW - Directv is owned by...wait for it...AT&T) even though they are being integrated into larger telecom companies.

Median household wages were stagnant for several years since Commie Care passed.

Not because of Obamacare, but because of trickle-down. Wages weren't rising during Bush the Dumber. And wages started rising at higher rates the final two years of Obama's term, when Obamacare was in full effect, not before it. Yeah, maybe wages stagnated during 2010 and 2011, but they sure as shit didn't stagnate in 2015 or 2016, and by that time, Obamacare had been law for 5-6 years, and the exchanges had been around for 2-3.

We had record loss of people in the workforce participation rate.

Because Boomers started retiring. Duh. They were the largest part of the workforce. Now, that large workforce is retiring, so of course the labor participation rate dipped. This is an example of the kind of disingenuous arguments Conservative make. You choose to withhold details that are detrimental to what we're discussing. I think you make that choice deliberately because, gosh, you just have to preserve your ego.

We had excessive growth in government dependency.

Thanks to the economic collapse caused by Conservative trickle-down economics and deregulation. You know how you can get less people dependent on government? PAY THEM MORE MONEY. Since many "welfare" benefits are tied to income, the more you make the less in benefits you qualify for. So if your issue is that there are so many people "dependent on government", the only solution to that is to raise wages. But you oppose raising wages. So that makes your argument a circle-jerk. Which makes you the equivalent to a monkey playing with itself in the corner of its cage at the zoo.

Even food stamp usage is still barely down since Obama's high just a few years back, and the only reason for that was because the Republican Congress cut funds and Republican Governors started to enforce food stamp qualifications.

Right...the Republican plan for everything is to pretend it doesn't exist. You cut food stamps, then you cut the number of people on food stamps. Only, those people still gotta eat. So you haven't solved the problem. You've avoided it completely either because you're too ignorant or too lazy.

If you want fewer people on food stamps, raise wages. Food stamp amounts are determined by income. So if you make a shitty wage, you qualify for food stamps. The more you make, the less you qualify. You get that, right? The solution to your whining and posturing is very simple; raise the minimum wage. Doing so would move millions off food stamps and/or reduce the amount they get.

These are easily found in the BLS, which is where I got them. What you must do is provide your sources for your claims that the jobs Obama created were part-time jobs. But I'll save you the time; no such data exists because it isn't true.

Here's BLS on Full-time employment:
January, 2009: 115,818,000
January 2017: 124,705,000
+8,887,000

Here's the Fed on Part-time employment:
January 2009: 26,377,000
January 2017: 27,405,000
+1,028,000

So which is more?

No, QE was pumping money into the stock market. That's how folks got rich off of it. Did you ever ask yourself why the economy was barely growing but the stock market was making record highs?

NO! QE was not doing that. QE was the Fed lending banks money for them to then lend out to business and consumers. Instead, those banks took the money and gave it to corporations who didn't need it, or kept it for themselves. The whole reasoning behind QE is trickle-down, supply-side economics. Giving to those at the top, and relying on faith that they will trickle-down. They didn't.

 

[charwin95]

That's very funny Ray.
What is your links has anything to do with you supporting bringing in foreign workers?


Read this link to update yourself.
Immigration arrests up, deportations down under Trump

Okay, I read it, the question is did you?

As the article points out, deportations have nothing to do with Trump, they have to do with the courts. Speaking of which, the Trump administration added 25 new courts to speed up deportations and plan on adding another 25 for a total of 50 new courts.

And as the article also points out, deportations were up since Trump took office up until July where it fell a bit.

So Trump is looking to improve on the system just like Dumbama used his time to free up criminal illegals sitting in jail.

You are trying to deflect but it's not working.
So let me ask you again.
What is your link and the deportation crap that you are taking about---- Has anything to do with you supporting foreign workers that take over American jobs?
How come you can never answer a simple question?

Are you being hypocrite again or playing dumb or stupid?

1. Well I guess I don't respond to extremely stupid and dumb questions like you ask, and that's why ignore them.

If you can't figure out where my stance is on immigration, then it's your stupidity that's preventing you from understanding.

2. And before you bring up Trump again, Trump will be glad to hire American workers if they apply, but they don't. And in keeping with competition, either the entire system needs to be changed or companies will always look to produce products or services cheaper (or equal to) than their competition.

3. The real problem we have with industry is they are competing against our government socialist programs. Why work when you can sit at home getting fat on food stamps and talking on your Obama phone? HUD will get you an apartment or house in the suburbs, you can have as large of a family as you want, and you don't even have to pay for your utilities or medical care. Why work?

4. Even people on these programs may work, but they make sure to keep their income down so they don't lose any of their government goodies. So instead of working more hours at a low paying job, they seek to find better paying jobs and work less hours.

1. What a stupid excuses. You quoted my post #995 with multiple links that has nothing to do with my post. Trying deflect.
My question was very clear. If you hate foreigners taking over American jobs ----- Why do you support bringing in foreign workers?
Oh I know ----- Where you stand on immigration.
2. Trump will be glad to hire American workers if they apply???? That is one of the top ten stupidest post I ever read. Do you honestly believe nobody will apply at Maralago? Even stupid people like you or a prostitute will be glad working for this asshole.
Do you honestly believe Trump cannot find janitors, cooks and waiters in Florida? Don't forget Trump is costing him more to hire these foreigners because it includes board and lodging at Maralago or nearby and health insurance. Trump is always engaged in this tricky business and this is one of them. He is doing the same with his vineyard in Virginia.
So why is Trump keep saying Buy Americans and Hire Americans? Trump is big time hypocrite.
Before you go any further---- PLEASE ANSWER ALL MY QUESTIONS ABOVE.

3 and 4. Your lame excuses are not acceptable. You are implying that ALL Americans are under welfare. You are assuming that there are no single male or female looking or applying for these jobs. There are tons of college graduates in Florida with nonsense majors looking for a jobs ANY jobs just to eat.

In short do t know anything.

Without a doubt I believe Trump can't find American workers. His pay rate (depending on the job) is between ten and twenty bucks an hour. Why do I believe Trump?

I work in industrial areas every day. I see the HELP WANTED signs littered throughout. Go back a week or two later, those signs are still in front of those businesses.

Our clients often ask me if I know anybody looking for a job? Some of those jobs don't pay too badly for non-skilled work. They can't find anybody to even apply. In my line of work, we need over 40,000 new drivers industry can't find. If the economy keeps going this way, and with the baby boomers getting out of the picture, that deficit will increase in the coming years.

Some of those jobs don't even require experience. They will train you, get you licensed, and pay you while you learn. They only ask that you work for them a year or two under contract. After that, you have a promising career. They still can't find people.

My father (a retired bricklayer) still gets news letters from his union. They actually asked their retirees if they can find young people to enter the career. They can't find enough young people to learn construction and have a trade for the rest of their lives.

Two problems here: drugs is one of them, and social programs are the other. After all, if we have all these jobs that Americans are not taking, WTF are they doing for money? They have to be living off of something, don't you think?

I will only concentrate on Trump.

You are very funny Ray.
You believed everything what Trump rotten beans regardless of what he is saying or doing. Give me a break.

Yes unemployment in Florida is hovering around me 4.1% this year. How about unemployment in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 ----- Trump been hiring foreigners before then. Your excuses is not acceptable.

Trump is always involved in this kind of cheap tricky maneuvering deceit kind of business.

This July he requested 76 foreign workers ------ It pays from $10.33 to $13.34 an hour. No $20 an hour. PLEASE read the link how he tricked and advertised the job openings at Mara-lago and tells me who the hell read news papers classified ads? With no telephone number or emails for contact. It even advertised NO tips. You excuses is not acceptable Ray.

Do you honestly believe a foreign workers bare feet just arrived in this country, still soaking wet from crossing the ocean, with no food and place to live ----- Will FUCKING survive with $10.33 to $13.34 an hour before tax let alone at Maralago areas? Who pays for their food and lodging?

Just imagine if all business owners operate ( like Trump ) that kind of cheap tricky maneuvering----- Most Americans don't have jobs.

My neighbor's daughter work at Maralago so you cannot give me any kind of excuses that is acceptable.

The sad part of what you are saying is you hate foreigners taking over American jobs. But you support a hypocrite president hiring foreign workers. You cannot have it both ways. If you hate immigrants so be it ------- But you cannot cherry pick as to where and when you support foreigners.



‘Apply by fax’: Before it can hire foreign workers, Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Club advertises at home — briefly

Mar-a-Lago Club seeks more foreign workers

 

[charwin95]

I mentioned this several times before and I will say this again.
Since most or all of you do not have access to foreign countries like Asian, European, South/Central America countries.

Trump made us ignorant, stupid and laughingstock in this part of the world. From climate accord, foreign policy to domestic policy. Sad.

I debate live and it's very painful when they crushed or nailed me----- You have a fucking hypocrite president. I cannot defend it.

Then don't. We'll do just fine without you.

Don't? How?
I'm an American talking to foreigners.
It's the same like you I'm talking to a racist.

Without me? Let me ask you an honest question. Between you and me----- Who do you think is more desirable citizen? I know for sure that hate group and racist people are the undesirable (the rejects) citizens of America.

You leftists are so confused you don't even understand why America is rejecting you more and more every year. We are sick and tired of hearing and reading this racist crap every time you liberals open your mouth. It's like sitting at the bar next to a drunk who keeps repeating the same story about his job over and over again.

But I applaud you for being part of the force that's killing your own party. In fact, whoever decides to run for the presidency on the Democrat side next election, make sure you write to him or her and stress how important it is to use the word "deplorable" when talking about Republicans.

Bloody BULLSHIT.
No dude I'm not confused I'm just telling you the reality.
Remember of the 212 millions registered voters anemically Trump only garnered 63+ millions voted for Trump. That number is dwindling fast.
Majority of Americans reject Trump. That's the reality. So don't tell me America is rejecting us.
As far as RACIST---- I branded you a a racist, you are so proud being a racist, you posted link catered to hate group etc etc etc.
So what is your credibility? Nothing but hatred against your fellow Americans.

Oh yes I can't wait for the next election.

I bet you can't. Regardless what the polls say, Trump will win reelection if things stand as they are today. Remember these are the same polls that stated Trump didn't stand a chance in hell against Hillary.

Now, are you going to tell me I'm the only righty that you called racist on this board? No, you call anybody on the right racist just like your cohorts. Trust me, people are sick of hearing it. If you make fun of Obama's ears, it's racist to you people. Everything is racist to those against your leftist agenda.

Don't believe me? Then keep on promoting it. I love it. I love you turning more and more Americans off of your socialist/ communist agendas. It's the salvation of America as far as I'm concerned.

"Folks, when an adversary makes a fool of themselves, the best thing you can do is step back and not interfere."
Rush Limbaugh

You told me Americans reject us democrats. You are lying Ray. Americans rejects racist hatred people. There are lots of racist in this site Ray and I know you know they are.
Racist are NOT good people.

First 7 months all we see is a chaos out of wack self inflicted wounds administration. Will see if Trump will survive in 4 years.
Have you seen all anti Trump rallies all over the country and overseas? Like in last 4 days.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Then don't. We'll do just fine without you.

Don't? How?
I'm an American talking to foreigners.
It's the same like you I'm talking to a racist.

Without me? Let me ask you an honest question. Between you and me----- Who do you think is more desirable citizen? I know for sure that hate group and racist people are the undesirable (the rejects) citizens of America.

You leftists are so confused you don't even understand why America is rejecting you more and more every year. We are sick and tired of hearing and reading this racist crap every time you liberals open your mouth. It's like sitting at the bar next to a drunk who keeps repeating the same story about his job over and over again.

But I applaud you for being part of the force that's killing your own party. In fact, whoever decides to run for the presidency on the Democrat side next election, make sure you write to him or her and stress how important it is to use the word "deplorable" when talking about Republicans.

Bloody BULLSHIT.
No dude I'm not confused I'm just telling you the reality.
Remember of the 212 millions registered voters anemically Trump only garnered 63+ millions voted for Trump. That number is dwindling fast.
Majority of Americans reject Trump. That's the reality. So don't tell me America is rejecting us.
As far as RACIST---- I branded you a a racist, you are so proud being a racist, you posted link catered to hate group etc etc etc.
So what is your credibility? Nothing but hatred against your fellow Americans.

Oh yes I can't wait for the next election.

I bet you can't. Regardless what the polls say, Trump will win reelection if things stand as they are today. Remember these are the same polls that stated Trump didn't stand a chance in hell against Hillary.

Now, are you going to tell me I'm the only righty that you called racist on this board? No, you call anybody on the right racist just like your cohorts. Trust me, people are sick of hearing it. If you make fun of Obama's ears, it's racist to you people. Everything is racist to those against your leftist agenda.

Don't believe me? Then keep on promoting it. I love it. I love you turning more and more Americans off of your socialist/ communist agendas. It's the salvation of America as far as I'm concerned.

"Folks, when an adversary makes a fool of themselves, the best thing you can do is step back and not interfere."
Rush Limbaugh

You told me Americans reject us democrats. You are lying Ray. Americans rejects racist hatred people. There are lots of racist in this site Ray and I know you know they are.
Racist are NOT good people.

First 7 months all we see is a chaos out of wack self inflicted wounds administration. Will see if Trump will survive in 4 years.
Have you seen all anti Trump rallies all over the country and overseas? Like in last 4 days.

So who cares about a bunch of jobless losers that have nothing better to do with their time or their Obama phone? I'd be willing to bet half of them don't even vote, and the other half have no Fn clue what they are protesting.

Yes, Americans are rejecting Democrats. That's how you lost the house, that's how you lost the Senate, that's how you lost the presidency and while all that was going on, you lost 2/3 of the Governorship in this country.

Nobody cares about fake racism except the brainwashed people like yourself who are trained like a monkey to see any opposing view to yours as racist. Trust me, people are sick of it. We are sick of hearing about it, we are sick of reading about it, and we are sick of people making race out of things that have nothing to do with race.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Thank God liberals fit that definition perfectly.

 

[Billo_Really]

So who cares about a bunch of jobless losers that have nothing better to do with their time or their Obama phone? I'd be willing to bet half of them don't even vote, and the other half have no Fn clue what they are protesting.

Yes, Americans are rejecting Democrats. That's how you lost the house, that's how you lost the Senate, that's how you lost the presidency and while all that was going on, you lost 2/3 of the Governorship in this country.

Nobody cares about fake racism except the brainwashed people like yourself who are trained like a monkey to see any opposing view to yours as racist. Trust me, people are sick of it. We are sick of hearing about it, we are sick of reading about it, and we are sick of people making race out of things that have nothing to do with race.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Thank God liberals fit that definition perfectly.

Americans didn't choose their current government, this is what we got stuck with. So take your Nazi sympathizer shit and go to hell.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Okay, I read it, the question is did you?

As the article points out, deportations have nothing to do with Trump, they have to do with the courts. Speaking of which, the Trump administration added 25 new courts to speed up deportations and plan on adding another 25 for a total of 50 new courts.

And as the article also points out, deportations were up since Trump took office up until July where it fell a bit.

So Trump is looking to improve on the system just like Dumbama used his time to free up criminal illegals sitting in jail.

You are trying to deflect but it's not working.
So let me ask you again.
What is your link and the deportation crap that you are taking about---- Has anything to do with you supporting foreign workers that take over American jobs?
How come you can never answer a simple question?

Are you being hypocrite again or playing dumb or stupid?

1. Well I guess I don't respond to extremely stupid and dumb questions like you ask, and that's why ignore them.

If you can't figure out where my stance is on immigration, then it's your stupidity that's preventing you from understanding.

2. And before you bring up Trump again, Trump will be glad to hire American workers if they apply, but they don't. And in keeping with competition, either the entire system needs to be changed or companies will always look to produce products or services cheaper (or equal to) than their competition.

3. The real problem we have with industry is they are competing against our government socialist programs. Why work when you can sit at home getting fat on food stamps and talking on your Obama phone? HUD will get you an apartment or house in the suburbs, you can have as large of a family as you want, and you don't even have to pay for your utilities or medical care. Why work?

4. Even people on these programs may work, but they make sure to keep their income down so they don't lose any of their government goodies. So instead of working more hours at a low paying job, they seek to find better paying jobs and work less hours.

1. What a stupid excuses. You quoted my post #995 with multiple links that has nothing to do with my post. Trying deflect.
My question was very clear. If you hate foreigners taking over American jobs ----- Why do you support bringing in foreign workers?
Oh I know ----- Where you stand on immigration.
2. Trump will be glad to hire American workers if they apply???? That is one of the top ten stupidest post I ever read. Do you honestly believe nobody will apply at Maralago? Even stupid people like you or a prostitute will be glad working for this asshole.
Do you honestly believe Trump cannot find janitors, cooks and waiters in Florida? Don't forget Trump is costing him more to hire these foreigners because it includes board and lodging at Maralago or nearby and health insurance. Trump is always engaged in this tricky business and this is one of them. He is doing the same with his vineyard in Virginia.
So why is Trump keep saying Buy Americans and Hire Americans? Trump is big time hypocrite.
Before you go any further---- PLEASE ANSWER ALL MY QUESTIONS ABOVE.

3 and 4. Your lame excuses are not acceptable. You are implying that ALL Americans are under welfare. You are assuming that there are no single male or female looking or applying for these jobs. There are tons of college graduates in Florida with nonsense majors looking for a jobs ANY jobs just to eat.

In short do t know anything.

Without a doubt I believe Trump can't find American workers. His pay rate (depending on the job) is between ten and twenty bucks an hour. Why do I believe Trump?

I work in industrial areas every day. I see the HELP WANTED signs littered throughout. Go back a week or two later, those signs are still in front of those businesses.

Our clients often ask me if I know anybody looking for a job? Some of those jobs don't pay too badly for non-skilled work. They can't find anybody to even apply. In my line of work, we need over 40,000 new drivers industry can't find. If the economy keeps going this way, and with the baby boomers getting out of the picture, that deficit will increase in the coming years.

Some of those jobs don't even require experience. They will train you, get you licensed, and pay you while you learn. They only ask that you work for them a year or two under contract. After that, you have a promising career. They still can't find people.

My father (a retired bricklayer) still gets news letters from his union. They actually asked their retirees if they can find young people to enter the career. They can't find enough young people to learn construction and have a trade for the rest of their lives.

Two problems here: drugs is one of them, and social programs are the other. After all, if we have all these jobs that Americans are not taking, WTF are they doing for money? They have to be living off of something, don't you think?

I will only concentrate on Trump.

You are very funny Ray.
You believed everything what Trump rotten beans regardless of what he is saying or doing. Give me a break.

Yes unemployment in Florida is hovering around me 4.1% this year. How about unemployment in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 ----- Trump been hiring foreigners before then. Your excuses is not acceptable.

Trump is always involved in this kind of cheap tricky maneuvering deceit kind of business.

This July he requested 76 foreign workers ------ It pays from $10.33 to $13.34 an hour. No $20 an hour. PLEASE read the link how he tricked and advertised the job openings at Mara-lago and tells me who the hell read news papers classified ads? With no telephone number or emails for contact. It even advertised NO tips. You excuses is not acceptable Ray.

Do you honestly believe a foreign workers bare feet just arrived in this country, still soaking wet from crossing the ocean, with no food and place to live ----- Will FUCKING survive with $10.33 to $13.34 an hour before tax let alone at Maralago areas? Who pays for their food and lodging?

Just imagine if all business owners operate ( like Trump ) that kind of cheap tricky maneuvering----- Most Americans don't have jobs.

My neighbor's daughter work at Maralago so you cannot give me any kind of excuses that is acceptable.

The sad part of what you are saying is you hate foreigners taking over American jobs. But you support a hypocrite president hiring foreign workers. You cannot have it both ways. If you hate immigrants so be it ------- But you cannot cherry pick as to where and when you support foreigners.



‘Apply by fax’: Before it can hire foreign workers, Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Club advertises at home — briefly

Mar-a-Lago Club seeks more foreign workers

Okay, so several things from your first article that stood out and supports what I said:

The ad gave no email address or phone number. “Apply by fax,” it said. The ad also provided a mailing address. It ran twice, then never again.

During the 2016 presidential campaign, Trump defended his practice of using foreign workers at his club — even as he blamed immigrants for taking American jobs and keeping wages low for native-born workers.

“It’s very, very hard to get people. But other hotels do the exact same thing. . . . This is a procedure. It’s part of the law,” he said during a Republican candidates debate in March 2016, after Sen. Marco Rubio (Fla.) criticized him for using foreigners at Mar-a-Lago. “I take advantage of that. There’s nothing wrong with it. We have no choice.”

Youcheng Wang, a professor at the University of Central Florida’s Rosen College of Hospitality Management, said Florida’s tourism industry is utterly dependent on these workers.

“This is not an easy industry to work in,” Wang said. “The jobs are typically long hours, with relatively low pay. It’s seasonal and temporary, so there’s instability in that workforce. If you want to enjoy a balance between work and life, this is not that kind of industry.”

Mar-a-Lago has done what is legally required to seek U.S. job applicants — including posting two newspaper ads, on nonconsecutive days, for each of the openings. It also posted the position with a local job-placement agency.

So what this article basically said is that Trump could not find American workers. Three applied, two denied the offer, and one "claims" she was qualified for the job but didn't get it.

As to your second article:

The jobs, which would begin in October and end in May 2018, would pay a minimum of $10.33, $11.88 and $13.34 per hour but would be eligible for higher wages with overtime.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So who cares about a bunch of jobless losers that have nothing better to do with their time or their Obama phone? I'd be willing to bet half of them don't even vote, and the other half have no Fn clue what they are protesting.

Yes, Americans are rejecting Democrats. That's how you lost the house, that's how you lost the Senate, that's how you lost the presidency and while all that was going on, you lost 2/3 of the Governorship in this country.

Nobody cares about fake racism except the brainwashed people like yourself who are trained like a monkey to see any opposing view to yours as racist. Trust me, people are sick of it. We are sick of hearing about it, we are sick of reading about it, and we are sick of people making race out of things that have nothing to do with race.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Thank God liberals fit that definition perfectly.

Americans didn't choose their current government, this is what we got stuck with. So take your Nazi sympathizer shit and go to hell.

We won--you lost. This is what America chose. Go to hell yourself.

 

[Billo_Really]

We won--you lost. This is what America chose. Go to hell yourself.

More Americans voted for Hillary, than Trump. If it wasn't for extreme gerrymandering, you wouldn't have won shit.