Islam forbids

[Mr.Fitnah]

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

 

[John Lemmon]

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

Hey hand asswiper, why don't you stfu with that. Non-muslims are all to be killed. It says it in the coran book of hand asswipers.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

 

[Liability]

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

Hey hey hey. Mr. F.

I have no idea wtf "John Lemmon" might have meant in the post he seems to have incoherently addressed to you.

But I do admire your ability to ask that simple question over and over in the (vain) hope that anybody will ever have the guts to try to honestly answer it.

And I believe I know why they duck it, instead.

Good form.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

He is on ignore, he is an ignorant bigot.
Your post was not proof.

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

 

[Kalam]

kalam, so aisha was nine and was already on her second marriage?

Fourteen. The first marriage wasn't ever fulfilled; it was merely a betrothal that both parties decided to annul.

And she wasn't even a virgin?

Yes she was.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Page 128
Title: The Last Years of the Prophet (eBook)
SUNY Series in Near Eastern Studies
by Tabari.; Husayn, Ismaáåil Qurban.
Publication: Albany State University of New York Press, 1988.
View this eBook | Show Details | Remove from Favorites

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[Mr.Fitnah]

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

 

[Kalam]

The Qur'anic directives regarding how disbelievers are to be treated, consistent throughout the entire book:

And fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you but be not aggressive. Surely Allah loves not the aggressors. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out of where they drove you out, and persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it; so if they fight you, slay them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is only for Allah. But if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors. The sacred month for the sacred month, and retaliation in sacred things. Whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you and keep your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty. - (2:190-194)

They long that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved so that you might be on the same level; so take not from among them friends until they flee in Allah’s way. Then if they turn back (to hostility), seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take no friend nor helper from among them, except those who join a people between whom and you there is an alliance, or who come to you, their hearts shrinking from fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had pleased, He would have given them power over you, so that they would have fought you. So if they withdraw from you and fight you not and offer you peace, then Allah allows you no way against them. You will find others who desire to be secure from you and secure from their own people. Whenever they are made to return to hostility, they are plunged into it. So if they withdraw not from you, nor offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them. And against these We have given you a clear authority. - (4:89-91)

O you who believe, violate not the signs of Allah, nor the Sacred Month, nor the offerings, nor the victims with garlands, nor those repairing to the Sacred House seeking the grace and pleasure of their Lord. And when you are free from pilgrimage obligations, then hunt. And let not hatred of a people -- because they hindered you from the Sacred Mosque -- incite you to transgress. And help one another in righteousness and piety, and help not one another in sin and aggression, and keep your duty to Allah. Surely Allah is severe in requiting. - (5:2)

O you who believe, be upright for Allah, bearers of witness with justice; and let not hatred of a people incite you not to act equitably. Be just; that is nearer to observance of duty. And keep your duty to Allah. Surely Allah is Aware of what you do. - (5:8)

And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it, and trust in Allah. Surely he is the Hearer, the Knower. And if they intend to deceive thee, then surely Allah is sufficient for thee. He it is Who strengthened thee with His help and with the believers, and He has united their hearts. If thou hadst spent all that is in the earth, thou couldst not have united their hearts, but Allah united them. Surely he is Mighty, Wise. O Prophet, Allah is sufficient for thee and those who follow thee of the believers. O Prophet, urge the believers to fight. If there be of you twenty steadfast, they shall overcome two hundred; and if there be of you a hundred, they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand. - (8:61-65)

And if they break their oaths after their agreement and revile your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief -- surely their oaths are nothing -- so that they may desist. Will you not fight a people who broke their oaths and aimed at the expulsion of the Messenger, and they attacked you first? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right than you should fear Him, if you are believers. - (9:12-13)

And if thy Lord had pleased, all those who are in the earth would have believed, all of them. Wilt thou then force men till they are believers? And it is not for any soul to believe except by Allah’s permission. And he casts uncleanness on those who will not understand. - (10:99-100)

Often will those who disbelieve wish that they were Muslims. Leave them to eat and enjoy themselves, and let (false) hope beguile them, for they will soon know. - (15:2-3)

And say: The Truth is from your Lord; so let him who please believe, and let him who please disbelieve. Surely We have prepared for the iniquitous a Fire, and enclosure of which will encompass them. And if they cry for water, they are given water like molten brass, scalding their faces. Evil the drink! And ill the resting-place! As for those who believe and do good, We waste not the reward of him who does a good work. - (18:29-30)

Say: Obey Allah and obey the Messenger. But if you turn away, he is responsible for the duty imposed on him, and you are responsible for the duty imposed on you. And if you obey him, you go aright. And the Messenger’s duty is only to deliver (the message) plainly. - (24:54)

So whatever you are given is but a provision of this world’s life, and that which Allah has is better and more lasting for those who believe and rely on their Lord; and those who shun the great sins and indecencies, and whenever they are angry they forgive; and those who respond to their Lord and keep up prayer, and whose affairs are (settled) by counsel among themselves, and who spend out of what We have given them; and those who, when great wrong afflicts them, defend themselves. And the recompense of evil is punishment like it; but whoever forgives and amends, his reward is with Allah. Surely He loves not the wrongdoers. And whoever defends himself after his being oppressed, these it is against whom there is no way. The way is only against those who oppress men and revolt in the earth unjustly. For such there is a painful chastisement. And whoever is patient and forgives -- that surely is an affair of great resolution. - (42:36-43)

Allah forbids you not respecting those who fight you not for religion, nor drive you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly. Surely Allah loves the doers of justice. Allah forbids you only respecting those who fight you for religion, and drive you forth from your homes and help in your expulsion, that you make friends of them; and whoever makes friends of them, these are the wrongdoers. - (60:8-9)

Say: O disbelievers,
I serve not that which you serve,
Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve,
Nor shall I serve that which ye serve,
Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve.
For you is your religion and for me my religion. - (109:1-6)​

...


Please demonstrate how slaughtering disbelievers (for no other reason than disbelieving) is permissible according to these guidelines.

Thank you.

Let's see if you can succeed where your friend utterly failed.

 

[Kalam]

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

Hey hey hey. Mr. F.

I have no idea wtf "John Lemmon" might have meant in the post he seems to have incoherently addressed to you.

But I do admire your ability to ask that simple question over and over in the (vain) hope that anybody will ever have the guts to try to honestly answer it.

And I believe I know why they duck it, instead.

Good form.

Of course you'd pop a boner over Mr. Fitnuts' platitudinous questions and pitiful reliance on non-Qur'anic sources, you unthinking bigot. Let's see you do something other than swoon over him.

 

[Kalam]

Page 128
Title: The Last Years of the Prophet (eBook)
SUNY Series in Near Eastern Studies
by Tabari.; Husayn, Ismaáåil Qurban.
Publication: Albany State University of New York Press, 1988.
View this eBook | Show Details | Remove from Favorites

NetLibrary - Login

What's this supposed to prove? The marriage took place when Aishah was fourteen and was consummated five years later, when she was nineteen.

 

[Liability]

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

Hey hey hey. Mr. F.

I have no idea wtf "John Lemmon" might have meant in the post he seems to have incoherently addressed to you.

But I do admire your ability to ask that simple question over and over in the (vain) hope that anybody will ever have the guts to try to honestly answer it.

And I believe I know why they duck it, instead.

Good form.

Of course you'd pop a boner over Mr. Fitnuts' platitudinous questions and pitiful reliance on non-Qur'anic sources, you unthinking bigot. Let's see you do something other than swoon over him.

No no. Listen up little one. I leave that whole "popping of boners over males" to guys like you. Do stay away from the youngsters, though, please.

And in any event, Mr. F has repeatedly asked the question. You have come closest to attempting to answer it, but since you lie most of the time (as many Muslims are taught it is proper to do), your answers tend to be most unsatisfactory and quite unreliable.

And you are also wrong in another matter, nimrod. I harbor a low opinion of Islam. That's true. But that does not make me a bigot. I know it will startle a tiny little vacant mind such as yours, but people are completely free to reject the hatred that is Islam without being a "bigot" because of such rejection.

Now, I see fit to correct your effort to deceive:

War is a requirement for the people of the so-called "Religion of Peace [sic]."

002.191
YUSUFALI: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
PICKTHAL: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
SHAKIR: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

* * * *

002.216
YUSUFALI: Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.
PICKTHAL: Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.
SHAKIR: Fighting is enjoined on you, and it is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.

CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts

 

[Kalam]

No no. Listen up little one. I leave that whole "popping of boners over males" to guys like you. Do stay away from the youngsters, though, please.

Hey, now, let's not begin projecting.

And in any event, Mr. F has repeatedly asked the question.

He has had it answered, repeatedly, by a number of people using a multitude of different approaches. This thread has received way more attention than it deserves. Fitnuts' decision to reject out-of-hand anything that contradicts his puerile notion of "Islamic evil" does not in any way mean that his lame-ass points haven't been sufficiently addressed.

You have come closest to attempting to answer it, but since you lie most of the time (as many Muslims are taught it is proper to do), your answers tend to be most unsatisfactory and quite unreliable.

Please point out where I have lied. Please address my posts and highlight the "unsatisfactory" and "unreliable" parts - I find the "unreliable" allegation especially hilarious given that I cite all of my sources properly.

And you are also wrong in another matter, nimrod. I harbor a low opinion of Islam. That's true. But that does not make me a bigot. I know it will startle a tiny little vacant mind such as yours, but people are completely free to reject the hatred that is Islam without being a "bigot" because of such rejection.

You're a bigot because, like Fitnuts, you've decided that you're correct about Islam (based on what limited knowledge you have on the subject) and are unwilling to accept anything that isn't consistent with your idiotic viewpoint. Hence your groveling at the feet of cut-n'-paste tools like Mr. Fitnah.

Now, I see fit to correct your effort to decieve:

002.191

Look up, chump change.

And fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you but be not aggressive. Surely Allah loves not the aggressors. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out of where they drove you out, and persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it; so if they fight you, slay them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is only for Allah. But if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors. The sacred month for the sacred month, and retaliation in sacred things. Whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you and keep your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty. - (2:190-194)

Sort of an inauspicious beginning to your "correction," eh?

002.216

All injunctions to fight must be examined within the context of the Qur'anic guidelines I provided a few posts back. In this case, the call for war was clearly made against those who were "fighting" Muslims and attempting to "turn them back" from their religion (mentioned in the next verse, 2:217.)

That it?

 

[Kalam]

Now, let's watch as Mr. Fitnah attempts to respond to my post with cut-n'-pasted opinions from Ibn Kathir or the dude over at IslamQ&A. Five bucks says he'll throw this somewhere in there as well:

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

No no. Listen up little one. I leave that whole "popping of boners over males" to guys like you. Do stay away from the youngsters, though, please.

Hey, now, let's not begin projecting.

And in any event, Mr. F has repeatedly asked the question.

He has had it answered, repeatedly, by a number of people using a multitude of different approaches. This thread has received way more attention than it deserves. Fitnuts' decision to reject out-of-hand anything that contradicts his puerile notion of "Islamic evil" does not in any way mean that his lame-ass points haven't been sufficiently addressed.


Please point out where I have lied. Please address my posts and highlight the "unsatisfactory" and "unreliable" parts - I find the "unreliable" allegation especially hilarious given that I cite all of my sources properly.


You're a bigot because, like Fitnuts, you've decided that you're correct about Islam (based on what limited knowledge you have on the subject) and are unwilling to accept anything that isn't consistent with your idiotic viewpoint. Hence your groveling at the feet of cut-n'-paste tools like Mr. Fitnah.


Look up, chump change.

And fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you but be not aggressive. Surely Allah loves not the aggressors. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out of where they drove you out, and persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it; so if they fight you, slay them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is only for Allah. But if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors. The sacred month for the sacred month, and retaliation in sacred things. Whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you and keep your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty. - (2:190-194)

Sort of an inauspicious beginning to your "correction," eh?

002.216

All injunctions to fight must be examined within the context of the Qur'anic guidelines I provided a few posts back. In this case, the call for war was clearly made against those who were "fighting" Muslims and attempting to "turn them back" from their religion (mentioned in the next verse, 2:217.)

That it?

Do you read the Quran in such a way that surah 2 is the final surah?

 

[Kalam]

Do you read the Quran in such a way that surah 2 is the final surah?

Read correctly, chronological order is sort of irrelevant. That's why it wasn't arranged chronologically. Excuse me for assuming that you could have inferred that. Now, crawl back into your hole until you address the post I made that contains passages from throughout the book.

Had you bothered to read the post I was responding to, you'd notice that Disability made the reference to the second surah, and I merely clarified something for him using the verse he cited and those surrounding it.

 

[Kalam]

Observe now as Fitnuts posts the same cut-n'-pasted crap about abrogation that I've already refuted.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Please provide any rational one would disregard chronological reading ?Other than ignorance?

 

[John Lemmon]

So aisha was 14 and on her second wedding? What a fucking ho she must have been. What's the matter, Mo couldn't find a virgin anywhere in the middle east? LOL.
Kalam, are there even any cute arab chicks that don't need to be covered with a sheet?

 

[Kalam]

Please provide any rational one would disregard chronological reading ?Other than ignorance?

Already have.