Libertarian Party ACTUAL position on Immigration. .

[HappyJoy]

If you work for social change WITHOUT the mindless force of the govt --- than there's no mandate required. Just a lawful confirmation after the fact. My point was not that I like mandates and snapping of the fingers and National Guards at schools. It was that it's better to work for hearts and minds and social parity FIRST -- so that minimal "force" is required.

I think your point as a Libertarian is that the 1964 civil rights act was unnecessary, minorities should have just waited for state governments to grow a heart. Would that have taken 10, 20, 30 years?

Mind you, this is core as to why the Libertarian party will never be a national force, Americans disagree with you.

Um, no…

There are state governments today which have no heart, it could be another 50 years before they do.

This also raises an important point: that a civil right delayed is a civil right denied; indeed, to tell Americans they must ‘wait’ for their civil rights, or that they must attempt to secure through the political process that which is already theirs as a consequence of our rights being inalienable, is just as repugnant to the Constitution as seeking to deny citizens their rights through force of law.

Libertarian opposition to the CRA and other such necessary, proper, and Constitutional legislation is further evidence of the clueless naiveté that is the hallmark of their dogma.

And to be fair to libertarians, conservatives are just as wrong and ridiculous to believe that citizens must attempt to secure their inalienable rights through the political process, and if unable to realize their rights through the political process, simply ‘do without.’

That problem is/was NOT the Constitution.

Read Bennett Patterson's 1995 book, The Forgotten Ninth Amendment,.

The problem is the low life motherfuckers who have populated SCOTUS beginning with Roger B Taney.

I'm not reading an entire book to understand your personal fetishist and unpopular views on government.

Interesting


How is it that you know the Communist Manifesto inside out.?

I see, you don't have a point so it's time to accuse your opponent of Communism. In reality that is just another point for you to fail to prove.

 

[Contumacious]

If you work for social change WITHOUT the mindless force of the govt --- than there's no mandate required. Just a lawful confirmation after the fact. My point was not that I like mandates and snapping of the fingers and National Guards at schools. It was that it's better to work for hearts and minds and social parity FIRST -- so that minimal "force" is required.

I think your point as a Libertarian is that the 1964 civil rights act was unnecessary, minorities should have just waited for state governments to grow a heart. Would that have taken 10, 20, 30 years?

Mind you, this is core as to why the Libertarian party will never be a national force, Americans disagree with you.

Actually no -- we would have stated a POSITION 30 years PRIOR to the confrontation and reach the goal before it happened. Like we did with school choice, or MSavingsAccts, or marijuana, or Mid-East policy -- we were right on those things 30 years ahead of the curve. Politicians don't HAVE a long term plan or philosophy. They think in 4 or 8 year timeframes or ONLY THINK in terms of getting re-elected.

Then, in 2016 you have the balls to point out that some gays (I'd bet very few) are libertarians. Ignoring the fact that without liberalism they would have no rights to marry, live where they want to or keep their jobs. Where the fuck were you guys? Liberals have accomplished so much while Libertarians are still trying to convince the nation that they aren't a college cult designed to fuck with Republican parents.

Libertarians have accomplished nothing for this country, not a fucking thing.

You really don't shit,, but are full of wild accusations. Look up John Hospers.. As it applies to LGBT support.

Then apologize for being a total ass.. And we can continue...

You could just demonstrate what I have wrong. So far you haven't.

Instead you throw out a name, why do I care? Either prove your point or don't, it's not my responsibility.

How many times have you voted for Comrade Sanders already?

The truth and nothing but

 

[HappyJoy]

I just want to say, there are smart libertarians out there, you two clusterfucks can't even get beyond some basic civil rights questions.

 

[Contumacious]

I think your point as a Libertarian is that the 1964 civil rights act was unnecessary, minorities should have just waited for state governments to grow a heart. Would that have taken 10, 20, 30 years?

Mind you, this is core as to why the Libertarian party will never be a national force, Americans disagree with you.

Um, no…

There are state governments today which have no heart, it could be another 50 years before they do.

This also raises an important point: that a civil right delayed is a civil right denied; indeed, to tell Americans they must ‘wait’ for their civil rights, or that they must attempt to secure through the political process that which is already theirs as a consequence of our rights being inalienable, is just as repugnant to the Constitution as seeking to deny citizens their rights through force of law.

Libertarian opposition to the CRA and other such necessary, proper, and Constitutional legislation is further evidence of the clueless naiveté that is the hallmark of their dogma.

And to be fair to libertarians, conservatives are just as wrong and ridiculous to believe that citizens must attempt to secure their inalienable rights through the political process, and if unable to realize their rights through the political process, simply ‘do without.’

That problem is/was NOT the Constitution.

Read Bennett Patterson's 1995 book, The Forgotten Ninth Amendment,.

The problem is the low life motherfuckers who have populated SCOTUS beginning with Roger B Taney.

I'm not reading an entire book to understand your personal fetishist and unpopular views on government.

Interesting


How is it that you know the Communist Manifesto inside out.?

I see, you don't have a point so it's time to accuse your opponent of Communism. In reality that is just another point for you to fail to prove.

Oh shit, I forgot that some of you still insist in calling it "progressivism" - excuse me Vernon, the cat is out of the bag

 

[HappyJoy]

I think your point as a Libertarian is that the 1964 civil rights act was unnecessary, minorities should have just waited for state governments to grow a heart. Would that have taken 10, 20, 30 years?

Mind you, this is core as to why the Libertarian party will never be a national force, Americans disagree with you.

Actually no -- we would have stated a POSITION 30 years PRIOR to the confrontation and reach the goal before it happened. Like we did with school choice, or MSavingsAccts, or marijuana, or Mid-East policy -- we were right on those things 30 years ahead of the curve. Politicians don't HAVE a long term plan or philosophy. They think in 4 or 8 year timeframes or ONLY THINK in terms of getting re-elected.

Then, in 2016 you have the balls to point out that some gays (I'd bet very few) are libertarians. Ignoring the fact that without liberalism they would have no rights to marry, live where they want to or keep their jobs. Where the fuck were you guys? Liberals have accomplished so much while Libertarians are still trying to convince the nation that they aren't a college cult designed to fuck with Republican parents.

Libertarians have accomplished nothing for this country, not a fucking thing.

You really don't shit,, but are full of wild accusations. Look up John Hospers.. As it applies to LGBT support.

Then apologize for being a total ass.. And we can continue...

You could just demonstrate what I have wrong. So far you haven't.

Instead you throw out a name, why do I care? Either prove your point or don't, it's not my responsibility.

How many times have you voted for Comrade Sanders already?

The truth and nothing but

I'm not sure of what the accusation is. Are you accusing me of being from Vermont?

How many winning Libertarian candidates have you voted for? How many times were there no Libertarians available?

 

[HappyJoy]

Um, no…

There are state governments today which have no heart, it could be another 50 years before they do.

This also raises an important point: that a civil right delayed is a civil right denied; indeed, to tell Americans they must ‘wait’ for their civil rights, or that they must attempt to secure through the political process that which is already theirs as a consequence of our rights being inalienable, is just as repugnant to the Constitution as seeking to deny citizens their rights through force of law.

Libertarian opposition to the CRA and other such necessary, proper, and Constitutional legislation is further evidence of the clueless naiveté that is the hallmark of their dogma.

And to be fair to libertarians, conservatives are just as wrong and ridiculous to believe that citizens must attempt to secure their inalienable rights through the political process, and if unable to realize their rights through the political process, simply ‘do without.’

That problem is/was NOT the Constitution.

Read Bennett Patterson's 1995 book, The Forgotten Ninth Amendment,.

The problem is the low life motherfuckers who have populated SCOTUS beginning with Roger B Taney.

I'm not reading an entire book to understand your personal fetishist and unpopular views on government.

Interesting


How is it that you know the Communist Manifesto inside out.?

I see, you don't have a point so it's time to accuse your opponent of Communism. In reality that is just another point for you to fail to prove.

Oh shit, I forgot that some of you still insist in calling it "progressivism" - excuse me Vernon, the cat is out of the bag

I see, now you are committing the same faults as your typical wingnut, zero substance.

Question still stands. What accomplishments have libertarians achieved in this country and specifically on civil rights, where were you guys and what did you accomplish as you were complaining about government tyranny?

 

[flacaltenn]

Awesome. You are a libertarian who thinks government mandating that private business have to serve certain segments (all really) of our population. I'm glad you as a libertarian agrees with that.

Secondly, I don't consider Rand Paul a libertarian, he's more of a joke that competes for the punchline of libertarianism.

If you work for social change WITHOUT the mindless force of the govt --- than there's no mandate required. Just a lawful confirmation after the fact. My point was not that I like mandates and snapping of the fingers and National Guards at schools. It was that it's better to work for hearts and minds and social parity FIRST -- so that minimal "force" is required.

I think your point as a Libertarian is that the 1964 civil rights act was unnecessary, minorities should have just waited for state governments to grow a heart. Would that have taken 10, 20, 30 years?

Mind you, this is core as to why the Libertarian party will never be a national force, Americans disagree with you.

Um, no…

There are state governments today which have no heart, it could be another 50 years before they do.

This also raises an important point: that a civil right delayed is a civil right denied; indeed, to tell Americans they must ‘wait’ for their civil rights, or that they must attempt to secure through the political process that which is already theirs as a consequence of our rights being inalienable, is just as repugnant to the Constitution as seeking to deny citizens their rights through force of law.

Libertarian opposition to the CRA and other such necessary, proper, and Constitutional legislation is further evidence of the clueless naiveté that is the hallmark of their dogma.

And to be fair to libertarians, conservatives are just as wrong and ridiculous to believe that citizens must attempt to secure their inalienable rights through the political process, and if unable to realize their rights through the political process, simply ‘do without.’

That problem is/was NOT the Constitution.

Read Bennett Patterson's 1995 book, The Forgotten Ninth Amendment,.

The problem is the low life motherfuckers who have populated SCOTUS beginning with Roger B Taney.

I'm not reading an entire book to understand your personal fetishist and unpopular views on government.

Of course you won;'t. Because you don't KNOW anything when you say there is "no difference between Libs and GOP in 2016".. .

Here -- let me force feed (against my principles) an idiot.. From the Wiki...

United States[edit]
Libertarian Party[edit]
In 1972 John Hospers of the Libertarian Party became the first openly gay man to run for president of the United States, as well as the Libertarian party's first presidential candidate.[3]

Do you have any concept of what kind of PRINCIPLES it took for a brand new party to run an openly gay man as their FIRST candidate for President.?? All of money, time, ballot access issues? All of the REJECTION and hate that was generated against us being cranks and nutbags?

Of course you don't. Because leftists like you think that "having someone's back" is giving a speech. Or having a leftist controlled ghettos 50 YEARS after a Civil Rights act. And continuing your division by race, sex, income, or any OTHER you can manipulate for your political success..

Don't read this post.. Just shut the fuck up about where I was during the Civil Rights struggle. MY pedigree is much better than yours.

 

[flacaltenn]

We have been 30 AHEAD of social change in America since we got started......

Moron....

 

[flacaltenn]

You won't spend 10 seconds googling John Hospers BECAUSE youre a big mouth with a head full of misinformation,. Your fault --- you got called out...

 

[HappyJoy]

If you work for social change WITHOUT the mindless force of the govt --- than there's no mandate required. Just a lawful confirmation after the fact. My point was not that I like mandates and snapping of the fingers and National Guards at schools. It was that it's better to work for hearts and minds and social parity FIRST -- so that minimal "force" is required.

I think your point as a Libertarian is that the 1964 civil rights act was unnecessary, minorities should have just waited for state governments to grow a heart. Would that have taken 10, 20, 30 years?

Mind you, this is core as to why the Libertarian party will never be a national force, Americans disagree with you.

Um, no…

There are state governments today which have no heart, it could be another 50 years before they do.

This also raises an important point: that a civil right delayed is a civil right denied; indeed, to tell Americans they must ‘wait’ for their civil rights, or that they must attempt to secure through the political process that which is already theirs as a consequence of our rights being inalienable, is just as repugnant to the Constitution as seeking to deny citizens their rights through force of law.

Libertarian opposition to the CRA and other such necessary, proper, and Constitutional legislation is further evidence of the clueless naiveté that is the hallmark of their dogma.

And to be fair to libertarians, conservatives are just as wrong and ridiculous to believe that citizens must attempt to secure their inalienable rights through the political process, and if unable to realize their rights through the political process, simply ‘do without.’

That problem is/was NOT the Constitution.

Read Bennett Patterson's 1995 book, The Forgotten Ninth Amendment,.

The problem is the low life motherfuckers who have populated SCOTUS beginning with Roger B Taney.

I'm not reading an entire book to understand your personal fetishist and unpopular views on government.

Of course you won;'t. Because you don't KNOW anything when you say there is "no difference between Libs and GOP in 2016".. .

Here -- let me force feed (against my principles) an idiot.. From the Wiki...

United States[edit]
Libertarian Party[edit]
In 1972 John Hospers of the Libertarian Party became the first openly gay man to run for president of the United States, as well as the Libertarian party's first presidential candidate.[3]

Do you have any concept of what kind of PRINCIPLES it took for a brand new party to run an openly gay man as their FIRST candidate for President.?? All of money, time, ballot access issues? All of the REJECTION and hate that was generated against us being cranks and nutbags?

Of course you don't. Because leftists like you think that "having someone's back" is giving a speech. Or having a leftist controlled ghettos 50 YEARS after a Civil Rights act. And continuing your division by race, sex, income, or any OTHER you can manipulate for your political success..

I never said there was no difference between Republicans and Libertarians.

But because one guy ran for President on a losing ticket in 1972 is not the embodiment of civil rights.

What have Libertarians won when fighting for the rights of gays to live where they want? Nothing.

What have Libertarians won when fighting for the rights of gays to work where they are qualified? Nowhere

Where have Libertarians fought for the rights of gays to marry who they love? Where? This is recent.

Where is the political guts and clout to fight for transgendered people to use the bathroom they feel most comfortable with? Either you guys are silent or nobody cares because you guys don't have a voice and half of you are Republicans who are just afraid to admit it.

But you want to point to an inconsequential presidential run in 1972 as though that changed the world. And as evidenced by your post somehow you feel Libertarians did enough.

 

[HappyJoy]

You won't spend 10 seconds googling John Hospers BECAUSE youre a big mouth with a head full of misinformation,. Your fault --- you got called out...

I'm sure he is very accomplished but perhaps it's your responsibility to point out his relevance to the subject at hand. Is that asking too much of the couch potato party?

 

[Kosh]

You won't spend 10 seconds googling John Hospers BECAUSE youre a big mouth with a head full of misinformation,. Your fault --- you got called out...

I'm sure he is very accomplished but perhaps it's your responsibility to point out his relevance to the subject at hand. Is that asking too much of the couch potato party?

Typical far left drone wants others to do the work for them, they much rather stick to their religious narratives than be an independent thinker..

 

[Katzndogz]

Bernie Sanders is a communist. Gary Johnson is a drug addict with a financial interest in creating more drug addicts.

Next to them, even hillary looks good.

 

[flacaltenn]

I never said there was no difference between Republicans and Libertarians.

So now you want to resort to weasely parsing and LYING? Here's what you said in post 25.. .


"It's 2016 there is no difference between ineffectual libertarianism and conservatism."

I don't deal with weasels and liars.

And BECAUSE we had the guts to stick to principles and run an openly gay man as our FIRST presidential candidate in fucking 1972 --- You want to rap us because WE LOST????

Dismissed.. Your type will NEVER understand the difference between PRINCIPLES and winning power..

Anyone else want to take a whack at the genuine principles and convictions of America's only Social Liberal and Economic conservative party for the past 40 years?

Happy Joy just made my head explode.. HE is the problem with the sick 2 party system you folks are stuck with right now.

 

[HappyJoy]

Um, no…

There are state governments today which have no heart, it could be another 50 years before they do.

This also raises an important point: that a civil right delayed is a civil right denied; indeed, to tell Americans they must ‘wait’ for their civil rights, or that they must attempt to secure through the political process that which is already theirs as a consequence of our rights being inalienable, is just as repugnant to the Constitution as seeking to deny citizens their rights through force of law.

Libertarian opposition to the CRA and other such necessary, proper, and Constitutional legislation is further evidence of the clueless naiveté that is the hallmark of their dogma.

And to be fair to libertarians, conservatives are just as wrong and ridiculous to believe that citizens must attempt to secure their inalienable rights through the political process, and if unable to realize their rights through the political process, simply ‘do without.’

That problem is/was NOT the Constitution.

Read Bennett Patterson's 1995 book, The Forgotten Ninth Amendment,.

The problem is the low life motherfuckers who have populated SCOTUS beginning with Roger B Taney.

I'm not reading an entire book to understand your personal fetishist and unpopular views on government.

Of course you won;'t. Because you don't KNOW anything when you say there is "no difference between Libs and GOP in 2016".. .

Here -- let me force feed (against my principles) an idiot.. From the Wiki...

United States[edit]
Libertarian Party[edit]
In 1972 John Hospers of the Libertarian Party became the first openly gay man to run for president of the United States, as well as the Libertarian party's first presidential candidate.[3]

Do you have any concept of what kind of PRINCIPLES it took for a brand new party to run an openly gay man as their FIRST candidate for President.?? All of money, time, ballot access issues? All of the REJECTION and hate that was generated against us being cranks and nutbags?

Of course you don't. Because leftists like you think that "having someone's back" is giving a speech. Or having a leftist controlled ghettos 50 YEARS after a Civil Rights act. And continuing your division by race, sex, income, or any OTHER you can manipulate for your political success..

I never said there was no difference between Republicans and Libertarians.

But because one guy ran for President on a losing ticket in 1972 is not the embodiment of civil rights.

What have Libertarians won when fighting for the rights of gays to live where they want? Nothing.

What have Libertarians won when fighting for the rights of gays to work where they are qualified? Nowhere

Where have Libertarians fought for the rights of gays to marry who they love? Where? This is recent.

Where is the political guts and clout to fight for transgendered people to use the bathroom they feel most comfortable with? Either you guys are silent or nobody cares because you guys don't have a voice and half of you are Republicans who are just afraid to admit it.

But you want to point to an inconsequential presidential run in 1972 as though that changed the world. And as evidenced by your post somehow you feel Libertarians did enough.

So now you want to resort to weasely parsing and LYING? Here's what you said in post 25.. .


"It's 2016 there is no difference between ineffectual libertarianism and conservatism."
I don't deal with weasels and liars.

Yep, not all conservative are Republicans, I think we can all agree on that. Why is this an issue?

And BECAUSE we had the guts to stick to principles and run an openly gay man as our FIRST presidential candidate in fucking 1972 --- You want to rap us because WE LOST????

And absofuckinglutely nothing came of it. In the meantime, liberals have secured further the rights of gay Americans. Libertarians, nothing. Or, point to something, anything, what have libertarians done other than run for President and lose famously?

Dismissed..

Obviously not.

Anyone else want to take a whack at the genuine principles and convictions of America's only Social Liberal and Economic conservative party for the past 40 years?

Happy Joy just made my head explode.. HE is the problem with the sick 2 party system you folks are stuck with right now.

The Libertarian party has been around for a long time, Atlas Shrugged has been around for a long time and the only thing you guys have to show for it are a few fraudulent libertarians like Barry Goldwater and the Paul family who most libertarians disown.

There is no record of achievement, not even employee of the month.

 

[flacaltenn]

Bernie Sanders is a communist. Gary Johnson is a drug addict with a financial interest in creating more drug addicts.

Next to them, even hillary looks good.

Gary Johnson is a mountain climber, triathelete and in presence of great body and mind. Unlike the 2 meglomaniac power whores that America THINKS are their only choices.

Don't think folks understand where TOLERANCE comes in. You can be nauseated by the actions of others and STILL have the principles to support their decisions to use their lives and their bodies as they will. THAT is tolerance. You don't HAVE to practice the same liberty and freedoms that others choose. You just have to be consistent in supporting their right to do so -- if it doesn't harm you..

And if DOES harm you -- you needn't run first to government to FORCE them to quit. You can use other methods like the legal system.

 

[flacaltenn]

That problem is/was NOT the Constitution.

Read Bennett Patterson's 1995 book, The Forgotten Ninth Amendment,.

The problem is the low life motherfuckers who have populated SCOTUS beginning with Roger B Taney.

I'm not reading an entire book to understand your personal fetishist and unpopular views on government.

Of course you won;'t. Because you don't KNOW anything when you say there is "no difference between Libs and GOP in 2016".. .

Here -- let me force feed (against my principles) an idiot.. From the Wiki...

United States[edit]
Libertarian Party[edit]
In 1972 John Hospers of the Libertarian Party became the first openly gay man to run for president of the United States, as well as the Libertarian party's first presidential candidate.[3]

Do you have any concept of what kind of PRINCIPLES it took for a brand new party to run an openly gay man as their FIRST candidate for President.?? All of money, time, ballot access issues? All of the REJECTION and hate that was generated against us being cranks and nutbags?

Of course you don't. Because leftists like you think that "having someone's back" is giving a speech. Or having a leftist controlled ghettos 50 YEARS after a Civil Rights act. And continuing your division by race, sex, income, or any OTHER you can manipulate for your political success..

I never said there was no difference between Republicans and Libertarians.

But because one guy ran for President on a losing ticket in 1972 is not the embodiment of civil rights.

What have Libertarians won when fighting for the rights of gays to live where they want? Nothing.

What have Libertarians won when fighting for the rights of gays to work where they are qualified? Nowhere

Where have Libertarians fought for the rights of gays to marry who they love? Where? This is recent.

Where is the political guts and clout to fight for transgendered people to use the bathroom they feel most comfortable with? Either you guys are silent or nobody cares because you guys don't have a voice and half of you are Republicans who are just afraid to admit it.

But you want to point to an inconsequential presidential run in 1972 as though that changed the world. And as evidenced by your post somehow you feel Libertarians did enough.

So now you want to resort to weasely parsing and LYING? Here's what you said in post 25.. .


"It's 2016 there is no difference between ineffectual libertarianism and conservatism."
I don't deal with weasels and liars.

Yep, not all conservative are Republicans, I think we can all agree on that. Why is this an issue?

And BECAUSE we had the guts to stick to principles and run an openly gay man as our FIRST presidential candidate in fucking 1972 --- You want to rap us because WE LOST????

And absofuckinglutely nothing came of it. In the meantime, liberals have secured further the rights of gay Americans. Libertarians, nothing. Or, point to something, anything, what have libertarians done other than run for President and lose famously?

Dismissed..

Obviously not.

Anyone else want to take a whack at the genuine principles and convictions of America's only Social Liberal and Economic conservative party for the past 40 years?

Happy Joy just made my head explode.. HE is the problem with the sick 2 party system you folks are stuck with right now.

There is no record of achievement, not even employee of the month.

Said by a moron who's probably gonna support to the death a candidate because of her ACHIEVEMENT in simply being a woman? Ain't that right muddle brain? And if she LOSES --- it's a rebuke to all women..

Would the DEMS have run an openly gay man in the 70s ---- on convictions and principles? Would they do so TODAY????

 

[flacaltenn]

TRULY dismissed this time. I can't bear the anger I'm feeling.,.

Some folks can't put one concept in front of the other. 40 years of being ridiculed because WE DID things on convictions and principles that haven't and WON'T change.

 

[HappyJoy]

Bernie Sanders is a communist. Gary Johnson is a drug addict with a financial interest in creating more drug addicts.

Next to them, even hillary looks good.

Gary Johnson is a mountain climber, triathelete and in presence of great body and mind. Unlike the 2 meglomaniac power whores that America THINKS are their only choices.

That has zero relevance on governing the country and just sounds desperate on your part. Is this how shallow Libertarians are? I completely underestimated the juvenile attitude. Level with me, I bet you make fun of Democrats and Republicans when they overly praise their own, amiright? You know what liberals and conservatives have on libertarianism? Creating viable coalitions and convincing others.

Don't think folks understand where TOLERANCE comes in. You can be nauseated by the actions of others and STILL have the principles to support their decisions to use their lives and their bodies as they will. THAT is tolerance. You don't HAVE to practice the same liberty and freedoms that others choose. You just have to be consistent in supporting their right to do so -- if it doesn't harm you..

Sounds pretty, has nothing to do with accomplishment.

And if DOES harm you -- you needn't run first to government to FORCE them to quit. You can use other methods like the legal system.

Like it or not, government is the ultimate arbiter of our laws. Government as in every other country too. There are no libertarian governments. And that is for a very valid reason.

 

[Ravi]

So glibs are for freedum as long as the gubmint protects their specialness.