On the GOP

[Wry Catcher]

Go ahead. The GOP stance is repeal. That's not what national polls show that people want.

Poll: Most voters don't back ObamaCare repeal - The Hill's Healthwatch

Wytch.....lots of people would like to see Health Care Reform and people get the care they need.....but a hell of a lot of people dont like many parts of what has been foisted on us and the idea of the Govt. running the show......so i guess we will find out eventually who is right....

Wrong. Lots of people that don't like the ACA don't think it went far enough. 70% supported a public (government) option while this debate was raging. Much of the opposition to the ACA is that there is too much private in our healthcare.

Spot on!

 

[Seawytch]

. Those who supported Prop. 8 in CA and the Mormon Church for providing financial support for that amendment to the State Constitution;

are you including all those Democrats in this State who also supported it?.....just askin....

A lot of those folks had no idea what they were supporting. The Mormons and their buddies told all sorts of lies about sexually explicit indoctrination in the schools.

come on Joe..... are you saying the Democrats in this State are so dam stupid they could not understand the Ballet?.....and are you telling me that the Democrats are going to be swayed by what the fucking Mormons tell them?....sounds like excuses to me.....the Democrats just dont want to admit that same sex marriage is just not that well received.....even by their own people....

Guess What State Will See Lower Health Insurance Premiums This Year?

Has Massachusetts Finally 'Cracked the Code' On Health Care Costs?

 

[Trajan]

[

NO HE DIDN'T....jesus, how after all this time do you not know that?

The holy of the holies ( the NY Times) paid people to count the votes there after and Bush won by some 490 votes or so, hello.

Actually, what it found was that either one of them could have won, depending on what method you used to count dimpled, hanging, or other varieties of chads. Also, given the pure irregularity of his brother being the governor of the state in question, and the purging of election rolls before the election, a straight up official count was really required.

And again, Gore won the popular vote nationally.

not in Florida he didn't..

Thus the most thorough examination of Florida's uncounted ballots provides ammunition for both sides in what remains the most disputed and mystifying presidential election in modern times. It illuminates in detail the weaknesses of Florida's system that prevented many from voting as they intended to. But it also provides support for the result that county election officials and the courts ultimately arrived at — a Bush victory by the tiniest of margins.

The study, conducted over the last 10 months by a consortium of eight news organizations assisted by professional statisticians, examined numerous hypothetical ways of recounting the Florida ballots. Under some methods, Mr. Gore would have emerged the winner; in others, Mr. Bush. But in each one, the margin of victory was smaller than the 537- vote lead that state election officials ultimately awarded Mr. Bush.

For example, if Florida's 67 counties had carried out the hand recount of disputed ballots ordered by the Florida court on Dec. 8, applying the standards that election officials said they would have used, Mr. Bush would have emerged the victor by 493 votes. Florida officials had begun such a recount the next day, but the effort was halted that afternoon when the United States Supreme Court ruled in a 5-to-4 vote that a statewide recount using varying standards threatened "irreparable harm" to Mr. Bush.

But the consortium's study shows that Mr. Bush would have won even if the justices had not stepped in (and had further legal challenges not again changed the trajectory of the battle), answering one of the abiding mysteries of the Florida vote.

snip-

But what if the recounts had gone forward, as Mr. Gore and his lawyers had demanded?

The consortium asked all 67 counties what standard they would have used and what ballots they would have manually recounted. Combining that information with the detailed ballot examination found that Mr. Bush would have won the election, by 493 votes if two of the three coders agreed on what was on the ballot; by 389 counting only those ballots on which all three agreed.

Study of Disputed Florida Ballots Finds Justices Did Not Cast the Deciding Vote - NYTimes.com

even if the judges had had their way, it would not have mattered.....of course you'll now tell me the law should have been changed post facto ( which isn't the way its done nor has it ever) on the spot , sorry thats not the way it works.

But aside from that; you now sound like one of those whackadoodle who have no issue ala, obamacare and doma being adjudicated by a supreme court but when it comes time to try and justify some (Non) point, all of a sudden the system isn't good enough anymore, " bush stole the election".

I have no issue with ObamaCare being adjuducated by the Supreme Court because it was passed by both houses of Congress and signed by the president. In short, the way it's supposed to work. I could go on with the fact that the GOP had no problem with ACA under it's original title, "Romney Care". Of course, when the Black Guy Did It...

For DOMA, the problem with DOMA was that at the time, everyone knew it was as unconstitutional as a feel-good flag burning amendment. It was meant to kick the can down the road.

Final point.- The Electoral College is a horrible way to elect presidents in general. It marginalizes most of us who don't live in one of about 10 "Swing States". And this is also part of the Bush Legacy. Presidents before him really concentrated on winning a national concensus. Now they just try to game the system.



Nixon did not ask for a recount becasue he knew that there was no real mechanism in place to do so in a timely manner and meanwhile the country had to be governed, he told his advisor's no.

No, Nixon didn't ask because he knew he had CLEARLY LOST the popular vote. In short, Baby Bush showed less integrity than Tricky Dick.

so to sum up as long as you make the frame rules by which any of your supposition can be validated; electoral college, the recount by the consortium that the Times recognized as valid, SC decisions, theres no problem, or if not, there is a problem....got it.

Of course, when the Black Guy Did It...

I was going to comment and how you where wrong on Nixon but, when I saw this I realized, theres no talking to you, and you have the gall to call others crazies? Whatever...bye.

 

[Trajan]

No, guy, you have a tenous grip on reality because you don't take your meds on a regular basis.

Now, your batshittery aside, here's what the Washington Post said about that recount they conducted.

But if Gore had found a way to trigger a statewide recount of all disputed ballots, or if the courts had required it, the result likely would have been different. An examination of uncounted ballots throughout Florida found enough where voter intent was clear to give Gore the narrowest of margins.

But the study also found that whether dimples are counted or amore restrictive standard is used, a statewide tally favored Gore by 60 to 171 votes.

Gore's narrow margin in the statewide count was the result of a windfall in overvotes. Those ballots -- on which a voter may have marked a candidate's name and also written it in -- were rejected by machines as a double vote on Election Day and most also would not have been included in either of the limited recounts.


Florida Recounts Would Have Favored Bush (washingtonpost.com)

And IF worms had machine guns, birds wouldn't fuck with them.

Florida election law provided only for a recount of ALL ballots, not just the ones political flacks want to cherry pick and claim as disputed.

The election wasn't "stolen".

The election was stolen. Keep in mind Odd-Dude is a liar and engages in half-truths. Katherine Harris, the Sect. of State in FL did what she was told and as a reward was given a seat in Congress.

you're stuck on ignorant, read the Times article I posted...you and joe, the last bastion of denies....jesus and you guys call others nuts?

 

[Trajan]

Blaming Madam Pelosi for the debt in CA is formed by bias and ignorance; there is no factual evidence to even suggest a single member of Congress had anything to do with the policies that created a large debt in CA, or the growth of the national debt as speaker under George W. Bush.

California is a liberal state run by a predominantly liberal Democrat legislature since 1972, influenced by liberal policies that currently includes some of the highest taxes in the land including corporate taxes. Yet the state is the highest in debt, twice that of New York which runs in second. The Democrats through Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reed controlled the purse strings and the legislature of Congress since 2006. Pelosi and Reed also condones an believes in the same liberal policies that are currently enacted in California, particularly in their belief regarding taxes. It is no secret that they desire, as well as President Obama, to see those same liberal policies enacted in the United States.

Wrong and complete bullshit.

1. One of CA's biggest issues is overcrowded prisons, a direct result of "tough" on crime Republicans who ran on "use a gun, got to prison", three strikes & 25 to life and along with the liberals supported a change from indeterminant to determinant sentencing. they cut the number of parole agents along with the need for inmates to behave, take classes and accept counseling. Also they eliminated conjugal visits as too soft.

Each session the legislature made more and more crimes ineligible for probation, thus raising the number of prison commitments each year.

The result: overcrowded prisons, high medical costs, gangs, high stress on the line, overtime costs for CO's as well as larger numbers of staff injuries.

2, CA has a large number of non citizens in our penal system, both county and state. The Federal Government refuses to pay for these costs.

3. The population of CA continued to grow but the Republicans in the legislature refused to raise taxes and made it next to impossible for counties and special districts to raise revenue.

4. I could go on but the willfully ignorant have already stopped reading, if they actually ever started.

our taxes have been going up and? how ignorant do you have to be to see thats not the answer, not is it for Illinois, NY, etc....you simply cannot be this ignorant....can you

 

[Trajan]

Not according to national polls. Might work as a platform in Alabama or Mississippi, but not on in a national platform.

like all polls it depends on who is doing it......

Okay. Show me the national poll that doesn't.

the last poll you posted flopped, you wanna get back to that or keep running away?

 

[Trajan]

No, actually it doesn't. The GOP is stuck on repeal and that's not what people want.

LOL. Then why did Obama delay it? Even HE doesn't want it anymore.

You're just displaying your ignorance. One small part of the ACA is being delayed one year to allow more time to get all the pieces in place. Our Healthcare system is immensely complicated and its a heavy lift. Why wouldn't you appreciate the flexibility?

one small part?


OH and tell me, how do you ignore or refuse to enforce a federal statute..?

 

[Seawytch]

like all polls it depends on who is doing it......

Okay. Show me the national poll that doesn't.

the last poll you posted flopped, you wanna get back to that or keep running away?

No it didn't. People do not want the ACA repealed, they want it fixed. (Those that even know anything beyond the lies Fox spews about it) A HUGE fix would be getting that public option back in there.

 

[Seawytch]

LOL. Then why did Obama delay it? Even HE doesn't want it anymore.

You're just displaying your ignorance. One small part of the ACA is being delayed one year to allow more time to get all the pieces in place. Our Healthcare system is immensely complicated and its a heavy lift. Why wouldn't you appreciate the flexibility?

one small part?


OH and tell me, how do you ignore or refuse to enforce a federal statute..?

Does Obama Have the Power to Delay His Mandate?

 

[Dot Com]

LOL. Then why did Obama delay it? Even HE doesn't want it anymore.

You're just displaying your ignorance. One small part of the ACA is being delayed one year to allow more time to get all the pieces in place. Our Healthcare system is immensely complicated and its a heavy lift. Why wouldn't you appreciate the flexibility?

one small part?


OH and tell me, how do you ignore or refuse to enforce a federal statute..?

IDK, issue "signing statements"?

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Blaming Madam Pelosi for the debt in CA is formed by bias and ignorance; there is no factual evidence to even suggest a single member of Congress had anything to do with the policies that created a large debt in CA, or the growth of the national debt as speaker under George W. Bush.

California is a liberal state run by a predominantly liberal Democrat legislature since 1972, influenced by liberal policies that currently includes some of the highest taxes in the land including corporate taxes. Yet the state is the highest in debt, twice that of New York which runs in second. The Democrats through Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reed controlled the purse strings and the legislature of Congress since 2006. Pelosi and Reed also condones an believes in the same liberal policies that are currently enacted in California, particularly in their belief regarding taxes. It is no secret that they desire, as well as President Obama, to see those same liberal policies enacted in the United States.

Wrong and complete bullshit.

You make it way too easy. Do you actually do ANY research, or are you simply just making guesses at this point?

How California's income tax and sales tax rates compare

We're No. 1 -- only more so.

The budget deal the Legislature reached today will keep California's top personal income tax rate and sales tax rate the highest in the Union.

The agreement will raise personal income tax rates by 0.25 of a percentage point across the board, beginning with the current tax year. The highest rate, on taxable income of more than $1 million, will rise to 10.55% from 10.3%. The next-highest tax rate, on taxable income of more than $94,110 for a married couple filing jointly, will rise to 9.55% from 9.3%. For singles, the threshold for the new 9.55% tax rate is $47,055. The 0.25-point hike could be reduced to 0.125 of a point depending on how much federal help the state gets as part of Congress' economic stimulus package.

How California's income tax and sales tax rates compare - latimes.com

California and taxes

California is a high-tax state, with some of the steepest sales tax, personal income tax and corporate tax rates in the nation.

For businesses seeking to create jobs for Californians by locating or expanding in the state, taxes can be a major obstacle. California has the third-worst state business tax climate in the nation, according to reports from the Tax Foundation, a national tax research organization that tracks state taxes.

CalTax | Where Does California Rank?

California's personal income tax system consists of ten brackets and a top rate of 13.3%. That rate ranks highest among states levying an individual income tax.

Tax Freedom Day is the day when Americans finally have earned enough money to pay off their total tax bill for the year. In 2013, California taxpayers worked until April 24th (6th latest nationally) to pay their total tax bill.

California's corporate income tax system consists of a flat rate of 8.84%. That rate ranks 10th highest among states levying an corporate income tax. California's corporate tax collections per person were $245 in 2010 which ranked 5th highest nationally.

California's gasoline tax stands at 48.7¢ (2nd highest nationally)

California | Tax Foundation

As the Los Angeles Times reported: “California owes Wall Street more per resident than almost every other state. And it has accumulated a crushing load of debt for retiree pensions and health care, now totaling more than taxpayers spend each year on all state programs combined.”

The Times compares the state’s situation to that of the California cities of Vallejo, Stockton and San Bernardino, which all became insolvent largely because of their inability to pay for public-employee pensions and health care.

This touches on perhaps the biggest challenge to the state’s fiscal health: Democratic supermajorities in both houses of the state Legislature, combined with Democratic control of all constitutional offices. With Republicans now irrelevant, Democrats can raise taxes and ramp up spending at will, meaning that the cycle of artificially produced fiscal crises will speed up, with a legislative majority committed to the endless growth in government and the protection of public-employee pay and privilege at all costs.

Until California’s leaders tackle the state’s enduring debt issues and view the private sector as the generator of economic growth, rather than as a means to fund government, California’s next fiscal crisis will always be just around the corner.
California's debt still a heavy cloud over state's future - Los Angeles Times

Here is the result of liberal policy and their need for higher taxes. As the old saying goes, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Companies Leaving California in Record Numbers

"In 2011, 254 California companies moved some or all of their work and jobs out of state, 26% more than in 2010, according to Irvine business consultant Joe Vranich who has been tracking these departures since 2009.

The pace is accelerating, Vranich said. An average of 4.9 businesses left California each week of 2011, compared to 3.9 per week (202 total) in 2010 and one a week (51 total) in 2009. In what he calls "disinvestment events," Vranich counts companies that move jobs, facilities or headquarters out of California and "in carefully selected instances, companies making major capital investments in plants elsewhere that in the past would have been built in California," Vranich said.

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2012/03/companies-leaving-california-in-record.html?m=1

What do you suppose happened to all that expected revenue with all these businesses leaving the state? Still want to make guesses, and say all the state's debt is the result of Republican policies and guesses of overcrowded prisons? Perhaps you need to dig a little further into some actual research on the subject?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Go ahead. The GOP stance is repeal. That's not what national polls show that people want.

Poll: Most voters don't back ObamaCare repeal - The Hill's Healthwatch

Wytch.....lots of people would like to see Health Care Reform and people get the care they need.....but a hell of a lot of people dont like many parts of what has been foisted on us and the idea of the Govt. running the show......so i guess we will find out eventually who is right....

Wrong. Lots of people that don't like the ACA don't think it went far enough. 70% supported a public (government) option while this debate was raging. Much of the opposition to the ACA is that there is too much private in our healthcare.

Keep telling yourself that, I am sure it makes you feel better.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Go ahead. The GOP stance is repeal. That's not what national polls show that people want.

Poll: Most voters don't back ObamaCare repeal - The Hill's Healthwatch

Wytch.....lots of people would like to see Health Care Reform and people get the care they need.....but a hell of a lot of people dont like many parts of what has been foisted on us and the idea of the Govt. running the show......so i guess we will find out eventually who is right....

Wrong. Lots of people that don't like the ACA don't think it went far enough. 70% supported a public (government) option while this debate was raging. Much of the opposition to the ACA is that there is too much private in our healthcare.

70% supported a public (government) option?

Ahhhhh .... so that's why Nancy Pelosi kept those blue dog democrats in Congress and wouldn't allow them to go back to face their constituents? Of course, makes perfect sense to keep them in Congress until they were all behind this Obamacare mess.

 

[Seawytch]

Wytch.....lots of people would like to see Health Care Reform and people get the care they need.....but a hell of a lot of people dont like many parts of what has been foisted on us and the idea of the Govt. running the show......so i guess we will find out eventually who is right....

Wrong. Lots of people that don't like the ACA don't think it went far enough. 70% supported a public (government) option while this debate was raging. Much of the opposition to the ACA is that there is too much private in our healthcare.

70% supported a public (government) option?

Ahhhhh .... so that's why Nancy Pelosi kept those blue dog democrats in Congress and wouldn't allow them to go back to face their constituents? Of course, makes perfect sense to keep them in Congress until they were all behind this Obamacare mess.

Polls and the Public Option

Most in U.S. want public health option: poll

 

[JoeB131]

[

come on Joe..... are you saying the Democrats in this State are so dam stupid they could not understand the Ballet?.....and are you telling me that the Democrats are going to be swayed by what the fucking Mormons tell them?....sounds like excuses to me.....the Democrats just dont want to admit that same sex marriage is just not that well received.....even by their own people....

I think most voters are kind of stupid regardless of party.

And, yes, the Mormons engaged in a lot of shenannigans trying to get Prop 8 passed.

Prop. 8 Campaign Violated Disclosure Laws, Says Commission, Faces $49,000 Fine (PHOTOS)

Which is probably a large part of the reason why the state officials- republican and democrats, refused to defend it in court.

Gov. Brown and AG Harris are both Democrats, and they decided not to defend Prop. 8.

Neither did Arnold Schwartzenegger, who was a Republican.

Of course, he knew he was going back to Hollywood, he didn't want to do anything else to tick off the "girlymen"...

 

[Stephanie]

Okay. Show me the national poll that doesn't.

the last poll you posted flopped, you wanna get back to that or keep running away?

No it didn't. People do not want the ACA repealed, they want it fixed. (Those that even know anything beyond the lies Fox spews about it) A HUGE fix would be getting that public option back in there.

how about that? they pass some Monster government program that is going to cost the people in this country MONEY and their freedoms and it has to be FIXED right out of the gate..

if this isn't a sign competent governing what is? and some ofyou people just sit back and yawn over it...

my gawd we are frikken doomed

 

[JoeB131]

Of course, when the Black Guy Did It...

I was going to comment and how you where wrong on Nixon but, when I saw this I realized, theres no talking to you, and you have the gall to call others crazies? Whatever...bye.

Yeah, guy, I know the racism that infects your party like a cancer is a problem. But let's review this one.

2008. Mitt Romney was running on what a bang-up job he did as governor of Massachusetts. The Centerpiece of his campaign was this great free market health care plan that mandated every be covered and medicare be expanded to cover those who couldn't afford the premiums.

And guess what. Everyone thought it was WOOOONDERFUL. The Heritage Foundation just couldn't say enough good things about it. Of course, Republicans rejected Romney for his crazy religion and the fact they didn't trust the guy, but no one had a problem with his health care problem.

Then lo and behold, Obama proposed the same thing on the national level. Gives up on things like the Public Option to try to get Republicans to do along. Oddly, none of them did. You have to wonder why.... What could be their reason for not going along with their own plan. Hmmm.

The Black Guy Did It!

Romney wouldn't be caught having a Hot Chocolate with his own health care plan in 2012

 

[Seawytch]

the last poll you posted flopped, you wanna get back to that or keep running away?

No it didn't. People do not want the ACA repealed, they want it fixed. (Those that even know anything beyond the lies Fox spews about it) A HUGE fix would be getting that public option back in there.

how about that? they pass some Monster government program that is going to cost the people in this country MONEY and their freedoms and it has to be FIXED right out of the gate..

if this isn't a sign competent governing what is? and some ofyou people just sit back and yawn over it...

my gawd we are frikken doomed

Yes, fixed. It's not liberal enough. Too many giveaways to private insurance companies...but that's what you get from Blue Dogs.

 

[JoeB131]

the last poll you posted flopped, you wanna get back to that or keep running away?

No it didn't. People do not want the ACA repealed, they want it fixed. (Those that even know anything beyond the lies Fox spews about it) A HUGE fix would be getting that public option back in there.

how about that? they pass some Monster government program that is going to cost the people in this country MONEY and their freedoms and it has to be FIXED right out of the gate..

if this isn't a sign competent governing what is? and some ofyou people just sit back and yawn over it...

my gawd we are frikken doomed

Which "Freedoms" are you talking about?

The Freedom to not get medical treatment because you aren't insured?

The Freedom not to be rejected for treatment because a beancounter at your insurance company has declared your breast cancer a pre-existing condition?

 

[Seawytch]

Supporters of the law point to the second number in the survey: That 35% oppose the health care law because it's too liberal, with 16% saying they oppose the measure because it isn't liberal enough. Add that 16% to the 44% who say they favor the law and that means that six in ten either support the law or don't think it goes far enough. Or in other words, 60% are on the other side of the most vocal conservative critics of Obamacare.

CNN poll gives ammunition to both sides in health care battle