People flock to NYC-area bars, beaches as ‘quarantine fatigue’ intensifies

[Grace Is Stoked]

The pandemic will continue to thrive, benefiting from the ignorance and stupidity of far too many Americans.

The pandemic will continue to thrive no matter how many of you hide under bed because there is no vaccine and no cure. Most people appear to be contracting it at home while sheltering in place. So much for that idea

Coronavirus News: New hospitalizations confound expectations in New York state

Most of the new cases of coronavirus coming into hospitals in New York state are people who are older, not working and predominantly at home, Governor Andrew Cuomo said on Wednesday.

abc7ny.com

Following the law is not "hiding under the bed." So sorry it disrupts your plans. LIVE WITH IT.

The law of the land of the land is the constitution and state laws shit all over it
Next?

The Constitution left disasters and emergencies like epidemics to the states. The states enacted emergency orders based on their state laws. No emergency orders have been knocked down by the courts except Wisconsin, because the orders were made by an unelected official -- DHS. A poorly crafted emergency order in one other state that allowed 50 people to congregate and allowed retail stores to reopen but kept churches closed also got shot down. The Church order ONLY because you have to be consistent.

Temporary orders during a disaster are authorized by state legislatures. In Wisconsin, the legislature revoked that authority, which ANY other state could have done if they chose.

So NO TN. The states aren't shitting all over you. None of your rights have been violated. Hundreds of people are gathering to protest in states all over the place. Obviously people are loudly speaking their minds. Churches are either reopening or conducting business on line. No one came and took your guns. Your legal rights are still in place. The ONLY hope you've got that any of this is unconstitutional is if the Court finds that the state government did not have a good reason for enacting the orders. And at this point, I don't see that happening. Most people realize what this Virus is about.

That's not entirely accurate though. From what i've studied on this sort of topic states can't create laws or issue orders that in effect nullify our rights listed in the Bill of Rights. States are granted the ability to enact legislation that isn't listed in the constitution through the 10 amendment but those laws again can't nullify our rights as Americans or supersede natural rights. The 9th amendment also ensures that rights not listed in the constitution belong to the people and not the government and so they can't just suspend all other rights just because they aren't listed and because of a pandemic. Also don't forget that states have their own constitutions as well and so there are violations happening within those as well around the country in my opinion.

When a governor gives an order that violates those rights, such as banning assembly, speech, protests, religious gatherings, etc, they are not only violating their own oath of office and the US constitution and possibly their own state constitution but also violating the guarantee clause of the US constitution which basically mandates that states have a republican form of government with equal checks and balances on power just like the federal government has. Many of these governors are getting excess powers that were technically not even granted to them by their own state legislatures, which the legislature can't grant anyway to the executive since it would lead to one branch having more power than the other. There are constitutional issues on all levels right now in my opinion from Trump down to city council members.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

The pandemic will continue to thrive, benefiting from the ignorance and stupidity of far too many Americans.

The pandemic will continue to thrive no matter how many of you hide under bed because there is no vaccine and no cure. Most people appear to be contracting it at home while sheltering in place. So much for that idea

Coronavirus News: New hospitalizations confound expectations in New York state

Most of the new cases of coronavirus coming into hospitals in New York state are people who are older, not working and predominantly at home, Governor Andrew Cuomo said on Wednesday.

abc7ny.com

Following the law is not "hiding under the bed." So sorry it disrupts your plans. LIVE WITH IT.

The law of the land of the land is the constitution and state laws shit all over it
Next?

The Constitution left disasters and emergencies like epidemics to the states. The states enacted emergency orders based on their state laws. No emergency orders have been knocked down by the courts except Wisconsin, because the orders were made by an unelected official -- DHS. A poorly crafted emergency order in one other state that allowed 50 people to congregate and allowed retail stores to reopen but kept churches closed also got shot down. The Church order ONLY because you have to be consistent.

Temporary orders during a disaster are authorized by state legislatures. In Wisconsin, the legislature revoked that authority, which ANY other state could have done if they chose.

So NO TN. The states aren't shitting all over you. None of your rights have been violated. Hundreds of people are gathering to protest in states all over the place. Obviously people are loudly speaking their minds. Churches are either reopening or conducting business on line. No one came and took your guns. Your legal rights are still in place. The ONLY hope you've got that any of this is unconstitutional is if the Court finds that the state government did not have a good reason for enacting the orders. And at this point, I don't see that happening. Most people realize what this Virus is about.

The states still cant supersede constitutional rights. That was the WHOLE point.
Your entire argument is flawed.
READ the constitution.

I have read it. It doesn't apply here. If you think my argument is flawed, why does every single state have emergency powers that have not been overturned? They have been challenged but no court sees it the way you do.

The courts are now as idealized as our political parties. The people will ultimately decide what is and what is not constitutional.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

The pandemic will continue to thrive, benefiting from the ignorance and stupidity of far too many Americans.

The pandemic will continue to thrive no matter how many of you hide under bed because there is no vaccine and no cure. Most people appear to be contracting it at home while sheltering in place. So much for that idea

Coronavirus News: New hospitalizations confound expectations in New York state

Most of the new cases of coronavirus coming into hospitals in New York state are people who are older, not working and predominantly at home, Governor Andrew Cuomo said on Wednesday.

abc7ny.com

Following the law is not "hiding under the bed." So sorry it disrupts your plans. LIVE WITH IT.

The law of the land of the land is the constitution and state laws shit all over it
Next?

The Constitution left disasters and emergencies like epidemics to the states. The states enacted emergency orders based on their state laws. No emergency orders have been knocked down by the courts except Wisconsin, because the orders were made by an unelected official -- DHS. A poorly crafted emergency order in one other state that allowed 50 people to congregate and allowed retail stores to reopen but kept churches closed also got shot down. The Church order ONLY because you have to be consistent.

Temporary orders during a disaster are authorized by state legislatures. In Wisconsin, the legislature revoked that authority, which ANY other state could have done if they chose.

So NO TN. The states aren't shitting all over you. None of your rights have been violated. Hundreds of people are gathering to protest in states all over the place. Obviously people are loudly speaking their minds. Churches are either reopening or conducting business on line. No one came and took your guns. Your legal rights are still in place. The ONLY hope you've got that any of this is unconstitutional is if the Court finds that the state government did not have a good reason for enacting the orders. And at this point, I don't see that happening. Most people realize what this Virus is about.

That's not entirely accurate though. From what i've studied on this sort of topic states can't create laws or issue orders that in effect nullify our rights listed in the Bill of Rights. States are granted the ability to enact legislation that isn't listed in the constitution through the 10 amendment but those laws again can't nullify our rights as Americans or supersede natural rights. The 9th amendment also ensures that rights not listed in the constitution belong to the people and not the government and so they can't just suspend all other rights just because they aren't listed and because of a pandemic. Also don't forget that states have their own constitutions as well and so there are violations happening within those as well around the country in my opinion.

When a governor gives an order that violates those rights, such as banning assembly, speech, protests, religious gatherings, etc, they are not only violating their own oath of office and the US constitution and possibly their own state constitution but also violating the guarantee clause of the US constitution which basically mandates that states have a republican form of government with equal checks and balances on power just like the federal government has. Many of these governors are getting excess powers that were technically not even granted to them by their own state legislatures, which the legislature can't grant anyway to the executive since it would lead to one branch having more power than the other. There are constitutional issues on all levels right now in my opinion from Trump down to city council members.

Winner.

 

[TNHarley]

The pandemic will continue to thrive, benefiting from the ignorance and stupidity of far too many Americans.

The pandemic will continue to thrive no matter how many of you hide under bed because there is no vaccine and no cure. Most people appear to be contracting it at home while sheltering in place. So much for that idea

Coronavirus News: New hospitalizations confound expectations in New York state

Most of the new cases of coronavirus coming into hospitals in New York state are people who are older, not working and predominantly at home, Governor Andrew Cuomo said on Wednesday.

abc7ny.com

Following the law is not "hiding under the bed." So sorry it disrupts your plans. LIVE WITH IT.

The law of the land of the land is the constitution and state laws shit all over it
Next?

The Constitution left disasters and emergencies like epidemics to the states. The states enacted emergency orders based on their state laws. No emergency orders have been knocked down by the courts except Wisconsin, because the orders were made by an unelected official -- DHS. A poorly crafted emergency order in one other state that allowed 50 people to congregate and allowed retail stores to reopen but kept churches closed also got shot down. The Church order ONLY because you have to be consistent.

Temporary orders during a disaster are authorized by state legislatures. In Wisconsin, the legislature revoked that authority, which ANY other state could have done if they chose.

So NO TN. The states aren't shitting all over you. None of your rights have been violated. Hundreds of people are gathering to protest in states all over the place. Obviously people are loudly speaking their minds. Churches are either reopening or conducting business on line. No one came and took your guns. Your legal rights are still in place. The ONLY hope you've got that any of this is unconstitutional is if the Court finds that the state government did not have a good reason for enacting the orders. And at this point, I don't see that happening. Most people realize what this Virus is about.

The states still cant supersede constitutional rights. That was the WHOLE point.
Your entire argument is flawed.
READ the constitution.

I have read it. It doesn't apply here. If you think my argument is flawed, why does every single state have emergency powers that have not been overturned? They have been challenged but no court sees it the way you do.

If you read it then why are you arguing with me?
Answer: you didnt read it.

 

[OldLady]

When a governor gives an order that violates those rights, such as banning assembly, speech, protests, religious gatherings,

Show me where the right to do any of those things has been banned. And it is not religious "gatherings" it is religious "worship." Big difference.

Look Grace, I don't pretend to be a Constitutional scholar or lawyer and I am not real comfortable trying to act like a Supreme Court justice in the many situations where USMB posters do. I am going by what the courts themselves have decided over and over again when these laws have been challenged. My understanding is as I have written. I am not qualified to make a deeper analysis of it.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

When a governor gives an order that violates those rights, such as banning assembly, speech, protests, religious gatherings,

Show me where the right to do any of those things has been banned. And it is not religious "gatherings" it is religious "worship." Big difference.

Look Grace, I don't pretend to be a Constitutional scholar or lawyer and I am not real comfortable trying to act like a Supreme Court justice in the many situations where USMB posters do. I am going by what the courts themselves have decided over and over again when these laws have been challenged. My understanding is as I have written. I am not qualified to make a deeper analysis of it.

Why not? It's written in perfectly simple English.

 

[skye]

The world is opening up! Enough already!

 

[OldLady]

The pandemic will continue to thrive, benefiting from the ignorance and stupidity of far too many Americans.

The pandemic will continue to thrive no matter how many of you hide under bed because there is no vaccine and no cure. Most people appear to be contracting it at home while sheltering in place. So much for that idea

Coronavirus News: New hospitalizations confound expectations in New York state

Most of the new cases of coronavirus coming into hospitals in New York state are people who are older, not working and predominantly at home, Governor Andrew Cuomo said on Wednesday.

abc7ny.com

Following the law is not "hiding under the bed." So sorry it disrupts your plans. LIVE WITH IT.

The law of the land of the land is the constitution and state laws shit all over it
Next?

The Constitution left disasters and emergencies like epidemics to the states. The states enacted emergency orders based on their state laws. No emergency orders have been knocked down by the courts except Wisconsin, because the orders were made by an unelected official -- DHS. A poorly crafted emergency order in one other state that allowed 50 people to congregate and allowed retail stores to reopen but kept churches closed also got shot down. The Church order ONLY because you have to be consistent.

Temporary orders during a disaster are authorized by state legislatures. In Wisconsin, the legislature revoked that authority, which ANY other state could have done if they chose.

So NO TN. The states aren't shitting all over you. None of your rights have been violated. Hundreds of people are gathering to protest in states all over the place. Obviously people are loudly speaking their minds. Churches are either reopening or conducting business on line. No one came and took your guns. Your legal rights are still in place. The ONLY hope you've got that any of this is unconstitutional is if the Court finds that the state government did not have a good reason for enacting the orders. And at this point, I don't see that happening. Most people realize what this Virus is about.

The states still cant supersede constitutional rights. That was the WHOLE point.
Your entire argument is flawed.
READ the constitution.

I have read it. It doesn't apply here. If you think my argument is flawed, why does every single state have emergency powers that have not been overturned? They have been challenged but no court sees it the way you do.

If you read it then why are you arguing with me?
Answer: you didnt read it.

I did. As a matter of fact, it is called the Supremacy Clause and I teach it and the essay by Hamilton supporting the Constitution as the cornerstone of US government, even for the states.

It isn't that simple, though, TN. I'm no Constitutional lawyer and I'm not going to play one. I am telling you what the courts have decided based on their interpretations and precedents. If you want to write a brief to the Supreme Court, go for it.

Here is one description of what the Court has decided:

“The Constitution,” Justice John Marshall Harlan wrote for a 7-2 majority, “does not import an absolute right in each person to be, at all times and in all circumstances, wholly freed from restraint.” Instead, “a community has the right to protect itself against an epidemic.” Its members “may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the safety of the general public may demand.”

States also have the power, beyond criminal law enforcement, to make quarantine and isolation effective. If presented with widespread noncompliance, governors may call National Guard units to put their orders into force, to safeguard state property and infrastructure, and to maintain the peace. In some states, individuals who violate emergency orders can be detained without charge and held in isolation.

A Constitutional Guide to Emergency Powers

The COVID-19 pandemic has led to extraordinary restraints on liberty, from international travel bans to state and local orders that businesses shut down, individuals avoid large assemblies and even stay home, and infected patients remain in quarantine. Depending on the epidemic’s progress, even...

www.heritage.org

 

[skye]

View attachment 337465

really now...

sorry OldLady but respectfully, I can't agree with you.

I do not like the agenda of the Left.

 

[OldLady]

View attachment 337465

really now...

sorry OldLady but respectfully, I can't agree with you.

I do not like the agenda of the Left.


View attachment 337608

Skye, I do not agree with you that this is a Democratic stunt to get rid of Trump. The damage to our economy and our country generally is serious and it hurts everyone. This has no sides. People are taking sides because .... I'm not sure why.

 

[skye]

View attachment 337465

really now...

sorry OldLady but respectfully, I can't agree with you.

I do not like the agenda of the Left.


View attachment 337608

Skye, I do not agree with you that this is a Democratic stunt to get rid of Trump. The damage to our economy and our country generally is serious and it hurts everyone. This has no sides. People are taking sides because .... I'm not sure why.

again....with all respect....the Rats are total scum.

I'm not saying you...I'm saying the Rats.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Skye, I do not agree with you that this is a Democratic stunt to get rid of Trump. The damage to our economy and our country generally is serious and it hurts everyone. This has no sides. People are taking sides because .... I'm not sure why.

If you truly can't see who it is liberating people from their superficially imposed house arrest (not that there was not cause to lock down originally) then I'm truly shocked.
But even California and New York can't forever ignore the will of people and the force of market conditions
at play. The democrats will attempt to drag the lockdown out as long as possible though...you can bet on it.

The contrast is stark...red states want to return to normal. The left wants to keep people hanging on as if they
can wait out nature.

 

[OldLady]

Skye, I do not agree with you that this is a Democratic stunt to get rid of Trump. The damage to our economy aEVnd our country generally is serious and it hurts everyone. This has no sides. People are taking sides because .... I'm not sure why.

If you truly can't see who it is liberating people from their superficially imposed house arrest (not that there was not cause to lock down originally) then I'm truly shocked.
But even California and New York can't forever ignore the will of people and the force of market conditions
at play. The democrats will attempt to drag the lockdown out as long as possible though...you can bet on it.

The contrast is stark...red states want to return to normal. The left wants to keep people hanging on as if they
can wait out nature.

EVERYONE wants to return to normal, the sooner the better. "Normal" would be no Virus, though, and in SOME places they have too many people still sick and catching it to go back to "normal" yet. New York is one. It isn't because they're Democrats.

 

[OldLady]

Skye, I do not agree with you that this is a Democratic stunt to get rid of Trump. The damage to our economy and our country generally is serious and it hurts everyone. This has no sides. People are taking sides because .... I'm not sure why.

If you truly can't see who it is liberating people from their superficially imposed house arrest (not that there was not cause to lock down originally) then I'm truly shocked.
But even California and New York can't forever ignore the will of people and the force of market conditions
at play. The democrats will attempt to drag the lockdown out as long as possible though...you can bet on it.

The contrast is stark...red states want to return to normal. The left wants to keep people hanging on as if they
can wait out nature.

Republican states are reopening with the same precautions that Democratic states are. Even Georgia. Look it up. The differences between states, where they exist, are in the number of cases they have and how many are still hospitalized. New York for instance is nowhere near going back to normal. In our part of Maine, we had a grand total of 2 cases, both recovered without hospitalization. Our eat-in restaurants open tomorrow. It depends on public health and safety in different places. It is not whether a state is blue or red. I'm afraid you are being fed a lot of partisan bull. If you actually look at what the "Red" states are doing, they are also using precautions.

 

[OldLady]

When a governor gives an order that violates those rights, such as banning assembly, speech, protests, religious gatherings,

Show me where the right to do any of those things has been banned. And it is not religious "gatherings" it is religious "worship." Big difference.

Look Grace, I don't pretend to be a Constitutional scholar or lawyer and I am not real comfortable trying to act like a Supreme Court justice in the many situations where USMB posters do. I am going by what the courts themselves have decided over and over again when these laws have been challenged. My understanding is as I have written. I am not qualified to make a deeper analysis of it.

Why not? It's written in perfectly simple English.

So are the Court's decisions. Ask them.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

EVERYONE wants to return to normal, the sooner the better. "Normal" would be no Virus, though, and in SOME places they have too many people still sick and catching it to go back to "normal" yet. New York is one. It isn't because they're Democrats.

New York reaps what they have sown under Cuomo. NY of course wishes it could return to normal but
it will be among the last states to let people go free under the guise that people are still sick.
Cuomo and the democrats are the embodiment of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Then Cuomo will come begging to Trump for handouts.

 

[Deleted member 73486]

Social distancing only works at slowing the spread anyways. As long as locations have sufficient hospital capacity, there's probably little reason to keep everything closed down.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

When a governor gives an order that violates those rights, such as banning assembly, speech, protests, religious gatherings,

Show me where the right to do any of those things has been banned. And it is not religious "gatherings" it is religious "worship." Big difference.

Look Grace, I don't pretend to be a Constitutional scholar or lawyer and I am not real comfortable trying to act like a Supreme Court justice in the many situations where USMB posters do. I am going by what the courts themselves have decided over and over again when these laws have been challenged. My understanding is as I have written. I am not qualified to make a deeper analysis of it.

Why not? It's written in perfectly simple English.

So are the Court's decisions. Ask them.

They may be, but they are sometimes in error when held against the language of the Constitution. For what reason is dependent upon one's language skills.

 

[OldLady]

EVERYONE wants to return to normal, the sooner the better. "Normal" would be no Virus, though, and in SOME places they have too many people still sick and catching it to go back to "normal" yet. New York is one. It isn't because they're Democrats.

New York reaps what they have sown under Cuomo. NY of course wishes it could return to normal but
it will be among the last states to let people go free under the guise that people are still sick.
Cuomo and the democrats are the embodiment of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Then Cuomo will come begging to Trump for handouts.

"Guise?" As of Friday, in New York there were 18,569 patients in the hospital with Covid, 5000 of them in ICU. Pretty far from "perfect," I'm thinking.

Number of Virus Patients in I.C.U.s Starts to Fall in New York (Published 2020)

The figure decreased for the first time since the outbreak began, providing more evidence that the curve of infection is flattening, but deaths remain high.

www.nytimes.com

 

[MarathonMike]

The pandemic will continue to thrive, benefiting from the ignorance and stupidity of far too many Americans.

The pandemic certainly thrived in New York, didn't it? Are New Yorkers more ignorant and stupid than the rest of America, or are there other reasons why New York became the COVID-19 killing fields?