Question for repubs: if abortion should be illegal, should it be illegal for a father to leave?

[jillian]

I know a man blowing his load requires no labored effort, but surely men must realize the consequences of such an action if a woman ends up pregnant and keeps the baby. If conservatives cared about personal responsibility, they would address this.

Personally i don't think a man should be legally obligated to stay, but I also support a woman's right to choose. Everybody wins with that compromise.

I think when it comes to "personal responsibility", male RWs will pontificate about it endlessly when it serves to self-righteously shame easy targets like single mothers on welfare. It just makes them feel better about their own insecurities I guess. When it comes to issues closer to home like a father's role in the child's life, they keep their mouths shut like the hypocritical cowards that they are.

I'm a mega conservative as you know. I'm for free birth control. I would give you anything to prevent an abortion. I would say go fuck your brains out if thats your wish but please use protection. Just don't kill a baby.

^^^^^^^^^^

another classless post from the drug-addled ijit.

if one reactionary loon like you thinks birth control should be free you are a rarity and should talk to the other reactionary loons about the GOP platform.

I am that rarity. I guess you've missed the other threads I have been in begging for free birth control. For years Jillian.

For years. Anything but abortion. The scar it leaves on you lasts a lifetime. No woman should bear that burden if it could have been avoided in the first place.

Your view on abortion does not reflect anything I've seen from any woman I know who terminated a pregnancy.

 

[jillian]

Funny, not what you said in the OP.

So you're just ignoring the sentence when I said I don't believe a man should be legally obligated to stay so long as abortion is legal?

The point I was making in your bolded example is that conservatives shame abortion but don't at all acknowledge the problem of a mother raising a child on her own if the father cuts and runs. They don't at all shame a man for doing this. It's just easier for them to berate a single mother on SNAP.

Well that's just a lie, we've been talking about regressive policies destroying the family and about absentee fathers. You're just not listening.

Oh please. If you actually cared about that, you would be a sympathetic to a woman having the right to do what she wants her own body. That includes aborting a fetus.

Aborting her baby. One of the worst moments of a womans life.

One of the worst moments in humanity...

Then don't terminate a pregnancy.

 

[owebo]

So you're just ignoring the sentence when I said I don't believe a man should be legally obligated to stay so long as abortion is legal?

The point I was making in your bolded example is that conservatives shame abortion but don't at all acknowledge the problem of a mother raising a child on her own if the father cuts and runs. They don't at all shame a man for doing this. It's just easier for them to berate a single mother on SNAP.

Well that's just a lie, we've been talking about regressive policies destroying the family and about absentee fathers. You're just not listening.

Oh please. If you actually cared about that, you would be a sympathetic to a woman having the right to do what she wants her own body. That includes aborting a fetus.

Aborting her baby. One of the worst moments of a womans life.

One of the worst moments in humanity...

Then don't terminate a pregnancy.

We are working on stopping you fascists from doing that if you haven't noticed..,,

 

[Granny]

You're absolutely right - they should. I WILL give credit to my ex - he did pay his child support every month. He thought I was robbing him blind at $125/month per child - three of them when he was making WAY more money than I was. It just so happened that at the time I was new to world of legal secretary and working for a domestic relations attorney so I was privy to what other fathers in my ex's financial bracket were paying and my ex was getting off E-A-S-Y. The kids remember him sometimes handing me checks and asking me to hold them a few days until his paycheck was deposited ... and he'd be out of town with his sleazy 2nd wife in FL or NV or some such place. I WILL give him credit for voluntarily paying child support beyond their respective 18th birthday until their high school graduation. He divorced and remarried that wench 5 or 6 times before it was all over with for good. She married someone else and shortly after she died. He went on to marry another far worse wench who totally OWNS him. Our children now consider the first stepmother (whom they hated) a walk in the park compared to the current demon he's married.

Fast forward a few decades and my children are 49, 47 and 42 ... and their father has informed them first that he never loved them and doesn't know why ... then recently after a plea from my youngest, informed them that he loves them but will not participate in any functions of their lives, will not stay in touch with them or see them ... he loves his wife and she's good to him (which is to say she'll drink with him and is a good piece of ass). So at this point, I have three very hurt children on my hands ... one of them a near basket case.

When a woman gives birth ... she does NOT spit out a DIY manual along with the child. It's learn as you go and it's a lifetime relationship. It doesn't end on their 18th birthday. There is no such thing as a PERFECT PARENT - you do the best you can, you love them, you nurture them, them chide them, ground them, you get angry with them, you get so frustrated sometimes you call them by 3 or 4 different names before you finally get the name right ... but above all you love them ... they laugh today and still wonder who "Carol Ann" is ... and I have absolutely no idea...just a name I spat out in frustration.

I've known a few divorced couples, where each ex-partner sounded just like you. Very bitter and hateful toward the other ex, always ranting on and on about some greatly-exaggerated, if not outright fabricated, accounts of the other's alleges vices. And they wonder why they have fewer friends than they used to have. They don't get how tiresome and unpleasant it is to hear that petty behavior, or just how it makes them appear to others.

And of course, you're blaming your ex for your children's problems, probably not even giving the slightest thought to what effect your constant badmouthing of, and hatred toward their father has surely had on them. That, also, is pretty much typical of what I've seen in other broken families where this sort of behavior has prevailed.

It's truly a sad and tragic thing for children, when their parents hate each other more than they love their children.

Hate not an issue in our case. We got over that long ago. I made excuses for him to the children when they were very young until I could no longer make the excuses because they were already forming their own opinions even though I wasn't fully aware of that until the events of the last year that exploded on his entire family and caused them to tell him he was not welcome in their homes anymore. The problems weren't him so much as it was his wives and he wouldn't stand up to his wives and tell them to stop the BS. He's not a bad person ... just a very weak man. I loved his parents until the day they died and my relationship with his siblings still continues today - they don't understand him either. I have three wonderful, loving, responsible, motivated, self-supporting children and I am very proud of them. I wasn't a perfect parent - but I was determined that they would not have the life I had. I was an unwanted child and my mother never let me forget it, I was thrown in an orphanage ... denied any contact with my Dad or his family because of my mother's hatred. But when I came of age I did contact them and I found Dad ... and I found the parent who loved me. So ... given my life experience and the obstacles I had to overcome, I'm entitled to my opinion.

 

[healthmyths]

I know a man blowing his load requires no labored effort, but surely men must realize the consequences of such an action if a woman ends up pregnant and keeps the baby. If conservatives cared about personal responsibility, they would address this.

Personally i don't think a man should be legally obligated to stay, but I also support a woman's right to choose. Everybody wins with that compromise.

I think when it comes to "personal responsibility", male RWs will pontificate about it endlessly when it serves to self-righteously shame easy targets like single mothers on welfare. It just makes them feel better about their own insecurities I guess. When it comes to issues closer to home like a father's role in the child's life, they keep their mouths shut like the hypocritical cowards that they are.

I agree 98% with your comment except it ISN"T RWs (assume you meant Right wingers??) that profligates of this abandonment of their responsibility are more often
then not liberal, progressive, free love "I gotta be me" sorts and NOT RWs.
Most of us NONE-profligates do assume the responsibilities and I agree with your premise that all those licentious ignorant irresponsible men that get women pregnant then walk away should be held responsible ... if even by law!

Now to back up my claim that it is NOT RWs that are the major contributors here is a study...
The truth is that black female-headed households were just 18 percent of households in 1950,
as opposed to about 68 percent today.
In fact, from 1890 to 1940, the black marriage rate was slightly higher than that of whites. Even during slavery, when marriage was forbidden for blacks, most black children lived in biological two-parent families.
In New York City, in 1925, 85 percent of black households were two-parent households.
A study of 1880 family structure in Philadelphia shows that three-quarters of black families were two-parent households."
Black female head of households number is 68 percent

 

[OKTexas]

That's no compromise, the 14th Amendment requires equal treatment under the law. If the woman has a right to terminate her parental responsibilities, the man should have the same right.

As long as abortion is legal, you and I agree.

Funny, not what you said in the OP.

I know a man blowing his load requires no labored effort, but surely men must realize the consequences of such an action if a woman ends up pregnant and keeps the baby. If conservatives cared about personal responsibility, they would address this.

So you're just ignoring the sentence when I said I don't believe a man should be legally obligated to stay so long as abortion is legal?

The point I was making in your bolded example is that conservatives shame abortion but don't at all acknowledge the problem of a mother raising a child on her own if the father cuts and runs. They don't at all shame a man for doing this. It's just easier for them to berate a single mother on SNAP.

Well that's just a lie, we've been talking about regressive policies destroying the family and about absentee fathers. You're just not listening.

Oh please. If you actually cared about that, you would be a sympathetic to a woman having the right to do what she wants her own body. That includes aborting a fetus.

Doing what to who's body. The woman ain't the one being killed, is she? Also any adolescent boy can sire a child, it takes a man to be a father. But it is nice to see you racist regressives admitting you're buying into Sangers Negro Solution. Here's a little hint for ya child, responsible people takes the necessary steps to avoid pregnancy, if they don't want children.

 

[bodecea]

I know a man blowing his load requires no labored effort, but surely men must realize the consequences of such an action if a woman ends up pregnant and keeps the baby. If conservatives cared about personal responsibility, they would address this.

Personally i don't think a man should be legally obligated to stay, but I also support a woman's right to choose. Everybody wins with that compromise.

you must be very very young.

cons were very much against divorce and would force a man to marry a woman he knocked up. That's where the term 'shotgun wedding' came from.

but leftist made it acceptable for men to leave, but now you don't like it.

tough shit, you made America the way you wanted it.

Okay that's a load of bullshit about the left's motives but even if that were true, it doesn't change the fact that liberals push for abortion rights.

and you push for divorce
push for single baby mommahood
push for welfare
push for inner city schools to suck
push for less cops in bad areas

you push for the worst things and pretend its a win

Democrats push for the plantation.....and they won't stop until they enslave us upon it....

Alt-Righties...living in the 1900s.

 

[Darkwind]

Why don't BOTH parties use contraceptives in the first place to prevent unwanted pregnancies? It's certainly cheaper than the cost of an abortion - financially AND emotionally. Sex for the hell of it - the immediate satisfaction - is nothing more than fucking and where's the care, concern, love or romance in that? Whatever happened to self respect as well as respect for the other party?

Yeah parents should be responsible, but that doesn't change the fact that children are born to them. It's again, not about the parents. It's about the kid.

except when we are talking about abortion. Then, for you, it is about the woman and the child gets killed.

Sorry, Darkwind ... I'm not a feminist and don't support abortion as such but I'm also not going to join a bunch of pro-life protesters, either. Accidents happen, sometimes in spite of proper protection ... but multiple "accidents" by the same person over and over and the use of abortion as a method of birth control ... no. If, for example, a couple plans to have a child and there's no known reason why they should not welcome the birth, but upon proper medical procedure it's discovered the baby has Tay Sacks Disease (I probably don't have that spelled correctly but anyone who is Jewish in particular will know exactly what I'm referring to) - I would not blink an eye if abortion was the decision. I don't know much about the disease, but my understanding is that it is genetic and results in a horrific death for the child.

The feminists can scream all they want about a woman's choice to control her own body and that embryos are not living beings until they actually breathe air. But consider this: an amoeba is a one celled organism but it's a living organism; an acorn is an acorn until it germinates and becomes a living organism that just gets bigger with the passage of time - and the tree-huggers would scream "abomination!" if someone plucked that little seedling out of the ground; a seed is a seed until it germinates and becomes a living organism - a plant - and no one waits until it blossoms before they admit the thing is living; same with animals, fish, coral ... so why is a human embryo not a living thing until it's actually born? Abortion is not about a woman's control over her body ... it's about population control. Period.

This is not what I was responding to. The OP was making some kind of nonsensical noise about caring about the children. I pointed out his hypocrisy. Nothing more.

 

[Tom Horn]

It usually the woman who throws in the towel in marriages involving children. They decide its easier to just steal their childrens, fathers money, without having to put in the effort of keeping themselves up, and putting out when they should...

It's always amazed me that a woman 40+ pounds overweight, full of opinions on everything imaginable, would mock her husband's lack of interest in having sex with her as "erectile dysfunction" like it's his problem. The same guy doesn't have any trouble getting aroused in a strip bar.....no Viagra required.

 

[Unkotare]

I know a man blowing his load requires no labored effort, but surely men must realize the consequences of such an action if a woman ends up pregnant and keeps the baby. If conservatives cared about personal responsibility, they would address this.

Personally i don't think a man should be legally obligated to stay, but I also support a woman's right to choose. Everybody wins with that compromise.

I think when it comes to "personal responsibility", male RWs will pontificate about it endlessly when it serves to self-righteously shame easy targets like single mothers on welfare. It just makes them feel better about their own insecurities I guess. When it comes to issues closer to home like a father's role in the child's life, they keep their mouths shut like the hypocritical cowards that they are.

That's no compromise, the 14th Amendment requires equal treatment under the law. If the woman has a right to terminate her parental responsibilities, the man should have the same right.

As long as abortion is legal, you and I agree.

Funny, not what you said in the OP.

I know a man blowing his load requires no labored effort, but surely men must realize the consequences of such an action if a woman ends up pregnant and keeps the baby. If conservatives cared about personal responsibility, they would address this.

So you're just ignoring the sentence when I said I don't believe a man should be legally obligated to stay so long as abortion is legal?

The point I was making in your bolded example is that conservatives shame abortion but don't at all acknowledge the problem of a mother raising a child on her own if the father cuts and runs. They don't at all shame a man for doing this. It's just easier for them to berate a single mother on SNAP.

False premise

 

[tinydancer]

You're absolutely right - they should. I WILL give credit to my ex - he did pay his child support every month. He thought I was robbing him blind at $125/month per child - three of them when he was making WAY more money than I was. It just so happened that at the time I was new to world of legal secretary and working for a domestic relations attorney so I was privy to what other fathers in my ex's financial bracket were paying and my ex was getting off E-A-S-Y. The kids remember him sometimes handing me checks and asking me to hold them a few days until his paycheck was deposited ... and he'd be out of town with his sleazy 2nd wife in FL or NV or some such place. I WILL give him credit for voluntarily paying child support beyond their respective 18th birthday until their high school graduation. He divorced and remarried that wench 5 or 6 times before it was all over with for good. She married someone else and shortly after she died. He went on to marry another far worse wench who totally OWNS him. Our children now consider the first stepmother (whom they hated) a walk in the park compared to the current demon he's married.

Fast forward a few decades and my children are 49, 47 and 42 ... and their father has informed them first that he never loved them and doesn't know why ... then recently after a plea from my youngest, informed them that he loves them but will not participate in any functions of their lives, will not stay in touch with them or see them ... he loves his wife and she's good to him (which is to say she'll drink with him and is a good piece of ass). So at this point, I have three very hurt children on my hands ... one of them a near basket case.

When a woman gives birth ... she does NOT spit out a DIY manual along with the child. It's learn as you go and it's a lifetime relationship. It doesn't end on their 18th birthday. There is no such thing as a PERFECT PARENT - you do the best you can, you love them, you nurture them, them chide them, ground them, you get angry with them, you get so frustrated sometimes you call them by 3 or 4 different names before you finally get the name right ... but above all you love them ... they laugh today and still wonder who "Carol Ann" is ... and I have absolutely no idea...just a name I spat out in frustration.

I've known a few divorced couples, where each ex-partner sounded just like you. Very bitter and hateful toward the other ex, always ranting on and on about some greatly-exaggerated, if not outright fabricated, accounts of the other's alleges vices. And they wonder why they have fewer friends than they used to have. They don't get how tiresome and unpleasant it is to hear that petty behavior, or just how it makes them appear to others.

And of course, you're blaming your ex for your children's problems, probably not even giving the slightest thought to what effect your constant badmouthing of, and hatred toward their father has surely had on them. That, also, is pretty much typical of what I've seen in other broken families where this sort of behavior has prevailed.

It's truly a sad and tragic thing for children, when their parents hate each other more than they love their children.

Hate not an issue in our case. We got over that long ago. I made excuses for him to the children when they were very young until I could no longer make the excuses because they were already forming their own opinions even though I wasn't fully aware of that until the events of the last year that exploded on his entire family and caused them to tell him he was not welcome in their homes anymore. The problems weren't him so much as it was his wives and he wouldn't stand up to his wives and tell them to stop the BS. He's not a bad person ... just a very weak man. I loved his parents until the day they died and my relationship with his siblings still continues today - they don't understand him either. I have three wonderful, loving, responsible, motivated, self-supporting children and I am very proud of them. I wasn't a perfect parent - but I was determined that they would not have the life I had. I was an unwanted child and my mother never let me forget it, I was thrown in an orphanage ... denied any contact with my Dad or his family because of my mother's hatred. But when I came of age I did contact them and I found Dad ... and I found the parent who loved me. So ... given my life experience and the obstacles I had to overcome, I'm entitled to my opinion.

If I could give you 50 million winners I would for this post.

 

[tinydancer]

I know a man blowing his load requires no labored effort, but surely men must realize the consequences of such an action if a woman ends up pregnant and keeps the baby. If conservatives cared about personal responsibility, they would address this.

Personally i don't think a man should be legally obligated to stay, but I also support a woman's right to choose. Everybody wins with that compromise.

I think when it comes to "personal responsibility", male RWs will pontificate about it endlessly when it serves to self-righteously shame easy targets like single mothers on welfare. It just makes them feel better about their own insecurities I guess. When it comes to issues closer to home like a father's role in the child's life, they keep their mouths shut like the hypocritical cowards that they are.

I'm a mega conservative as you know. I'm for free birth control. I would give you anything to prevent an abortion. I would say go fuck your brains out if thats your wish but please use protection. Just don't kill a baby.

^^^^^^^^^^

another classless post from the drug-addled ijit.

if one reactionary loon like you thinks birth control should be free you are a rarity and should talk to the other reactionary loons about the GOP platform.

I am that rarity. I guess you've missed the other threads I have been in begging for free birth control. For years Jillian.

For years. Anything but abortion. The scar it leaves on you lasts a lifetime. No woman should bear that burden if it could have been avoided in the first place.

Your view on abortion does not reflect anything I've seen from any woman I know who terminated a pregnancy.

Not one woman you know cried because the thunder rolled in her life and she felt she had no option to abort?

Not one? I know many. Sadly. I do not judge them. Not one wantonly spread her legs. Most in an abusive relationship.

When I say the thunder rolls, I mean it. When the fist hits your face you understand when the thunder rolls. And you believe you can't bring a life into your life.

They know they didn't abort a piece of tissue. Many to heal their souls have named their baby, consider it a death and desperately tried to come to terms with the unbelievably horrid choice that they had to make.

I wish this was not a political issue but a true discussion on why women are driven to abort. How we as fellow travellers could make abortion the last choice someone has to make.

And to provide any means possible including free birth control to prevent abortion.

 

[deltex1]

I know a man blowing his load requires no labored effort, but surely men must realize the consequences of such an action if a woman ends up pregnant and keeps the baby. If conservatives cared about personal responsibility, they would address this.

Personally i don't think a man should be legally obligated to stay, but I also support a woman's right to choose. Everybody wins with that compromise.

I think when it comes to "personal responsibility", male RWs will pontificate about it endlessly when it serves to self-righteously shame easy targets like single mothers on welfare. It just makes them feel better about their own insecurities I guess. When it comes to issues closer to home like a father's role in the child's life, they keep their mouths shut like the hypocritical cowards that they are.

We note the neeeeeegro fathers in Chicago who abandon their children to the fate that Colon so simply avoids. These fathers need social justice all right...castration.

 

[Correll]

I know a man blowing his load requires no labored effort, but surely men must realize the consequences of such an action if a woman ends up pregnant and keeps the baby. If conservatives cared about personal responsibility, they would address this.

Personally i don't think a man should be legally obligated to stay, but I also support a woman's right to choose. Everybody wins with that compromise.

I think when it comes to "personal responsibility", male RWs will pontificate about it endlessly when it serves to self-righteously shame easy targets like single mothers on welfare. It just makes them feel better about their own insecurities I guess. When it comes to issues closer to home like a father's role in the child's life, they keep their mouths shut like the hypocritical cowards that they are.

wow. going after the man. how original and excitila;jopuiqawt.


Oh, sorry. Feel asleep from boredom. My face hurts. MOre later.

 

[Tom Horn]

Alt-Righties...living in the 1900s.

You're nothing but a 5 or 6 word snarking toad. You never OP anything...I believe it's because you can't even come up with a couple sentences. I can't imagine sitting on this site all day only to drop a little rabbit turd on occasion. It seems life has given you exactly what you had coming.

 

[healthmyths]

I know a man blowing his load requires no labored effort, but surely men must realize the consequences of such an action if a woman ends up pregnant and keeps the baby. If conservatives cared about personal responsibility, they would address this.

Personally i don't think a man should be legally obligated to stay, but I also support a woman's right to choose. Everybody wins with that compromise.

you must be very very young.

cons were very much against divorce and would force a man to marry a woman he knocked up. That's where the term 'shotgun wedding' came from.

but leftist made it acceptable for men to leave, but now you don't like it.

tough shit, you made America the way you wanted it.

Okay that's a load of bullshit about the left's motives but even if that were true, it doesn't change the fact that liberals push for abortion rights.

and you push for divorce
push for single baby mommahood
push for welfare
push for inner city schools to suck
push for less cops in bad areas

you push for the worst things and pretend its a win

Democrats push for the plantation.....and they won't stop until they enslave us upon it....

Alt-Righties...living in the 1900s.

Which would you prefer: black babies being aborted or black babies growing up with 2 parent family?
I mean you people want the woman to have her rights without considering society's right to a safe civilized group of people who respect life.
But this is what you want?
This is what you get!

 

[owebo]

I know a man blowing his load requires no labored effort, but surely men must realize the consequences of such an action if a woman ends up pregnant and keeps the baby. If conservatives cared about personal responsibility, they would address this.

Personally i don't think a man should be legally obligated to stay, but I also support a woman's right to choose. Everybody wins with that compromise.

you must be very very young.

cons were very much against divorce and would force a man to marry a woman he knocked up. That's where the term 'shotgun wedding' came from.

but leftist made it acceptable for men to leave, but now you don't like it.

tough shit, you made America the way you wanted it.

Okay that's a load of bullshit about the left's motives but even if that were true, it doesn't change the fact that liberals push for abortion rights.

and you push for divorce
push for single baby mommahood
push for welfare
push for inner city schools to suck
push for less cops in bad areas

you push for the worst things and pretend its a win

Democrats push for the plantation.....and they won't stop until they enslave us upon it....

Alt-Righties...living in the 1900s.

All-lefties....living in the 1930's.....

 

[g5000]

The state should take care of orphaned children as well as young and/or impoverished pregnant women. The superstitious laws of maintaining virginity should be abolished

Or better yet, if you're impoverished, don't procreate.

Why should only rich people have children?

Because they can afford them, and society isn't forced to pay for them.

 

[g5000]

If you want it to be illegal then how can you be anti-government? Seriously, to make it illegal, you need to enforce a law against the issue. How is it constitution to use the government against abortion but not provide healthcare for our people?

You are confusing anarchy with someone who believes in small government.

 

[g5000]

Or better yet, if you're impoverished, don't procreate.

Why should only rich people have children?

A. Why shouldn't you take care of your own child?

B. I wasn't aware that only rich people can afford children. I'm not rich and I take care of my son just fine. Maybe you are doing something wrong

C. What do we do about the child who can't be adequately taken care of? That's the only question that actually matters.

I don't care what's done with the child. It's not my responsibility. It's the responsibility of the person who made it and if they can't afford to make it they shouldn't. In this day and age with birth control and abortion freely available by places like Planned Parenthood there is absolutely no excuse for someone to have a child they can't afford to pay for.

God you people are so dense. You're so self-righteously focused on shaming the parents that you completely miss the point. The child still exists. That's the point. The child needs food and healthcare. That's what this boils down to. No one gives a shit what YOU think of the mother or her child. People still think the child needs adequate care.

You are missing the point that having unwanted children is being incentivized. The illegitimacy rate for blacks has skyrocketed to nearly 80 percent since the Great Society was launched.

Explain.