Religion and Ethics 2.0

[Taz]

Too long, didn't read. Better luck next time.

Shorter version Taz:

Jihadists are a SALAFI cult and POLITICAL REGIME.
Not universal for all Muslims obeying Civil Authority.

All Muslims want to live under Sharia Law. World domination by the Koran is the ultimate goal. Don't be fooled.

 

[emilynghiem]

Too long, didn't read. Better luck next time.

Shorter version Taz:

Jihadists are a SALAFI cult and POLITICAL REGIME.
Not universal for all Muslims obeying Civil Authority.

All Muslims want to live under Sharia Law. World domination by the Koran is the ultimate goal. Don't be fooled.

Dear Taz the only thing that can dominate the world is love that everyone wants
and freedom from fear and stress that nobody wants.

As for Muslims, "shariah" refers to all practices including prayer and charity.
"Shariah Law" means the POLITICAL RELIGION that not all Muslims follow.

Are you leaving out Muslim Constitutional lawyers, scholars and veterans who
put duty to country and the Constitution before personal beliefs that remain private?

Are you saying they are no longer Muslims if they put the Constitution first?

 

[Taz]

Too long, didn't read. Better luck next time.

Shorter version Taz:

Jihadists are a SALAFI cult and POLITICAL REGIME.
Not universal for all Muslims obeying Civil Authority.

All Muslims want to live under Sharia Law. World domination by the Koran is the ultimate goal. Don't be fooled.

Dear Taz the only thing that can dominate the world is love that everyone wants
and freedom from fear and stress that nobody wants.

As for Muslims, "shariah" refers to all practices including prayer and charity.
"Shariah Law" means the POLITICAL RELIGION that not all Muslims follow.

Are you leaving out Muslim Constitutional lawyers, scholars and veterans who
put duty to country and the Constitution before personal beliefs that remain private?

Are you saying they are no longer Muslims if they put the Constitution first?

That's exactly what I'm saying. If they don't put Sharia first, they aren't real Muslims, or more likely, they are just lying. They all want to live under Sharia. bar none.

 

[ding]

Too long, didn't read. Better luck next time.

Shorter version Taz:

Jihadists are a SALAFI cult and POLITICAL REGIME.
Not universal for all Muslims obeying Civil Authority.

All Muslims want to live under Sharia Law. World domination by the Koran is the ultimate goal. Don't be fooled.

Dear Taz the only thing that can dominate the world is love that everyone wants
and freedom from fear and stress that nobody wants.

As for Muslims, "shariah" refers to all practices including prayer and charity.
"Shariah Law" means the POLITICAL RELIGION that not all Muslims follow.

Are you leaving out Muslim Constitutional lawyers, scholars and veterans who
put duty to country and the Constitution before personal beliefs that remain private?

Are you saying they are no longer Muslims if they put the Constitution first?

That's exactly what I'm saying. If they don't put Sharia first, they aren't real Muslims, or more likely, they are just lying. They all want to live under Sharia. bar none.

That’s odd because the Muslim predominant nations of Albania, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Cameroon, Chad, Gabon, Guinea-Bissau, Guinea, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mali, Mozambique, Niger, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Turkey, Tunisia, Togo, and Uzbekistan, declared the law under their Constitutions to be “completely secular” in nature, and Sharia has no role in the legal process.

Drop the mic.

 

[emilynghiem]

That's exactly what I'm saying. If they don't put Sharia first, they aren't real Muslims, or more likely, they are just lying. They all want to live under Sharia. bar none.

so Taz what do you call Muslims
who follow civil and Constitutional laws like other citizens.

You don't call them Muslim what do you call them?

Are they Christians who just speak the Muslim language
and practice that culture but they are really Christian?

So it's just another "denomination" of Christianity
to follow the Bible and Bill of Rights like other citizens do?

 

[emilynghiem]

Too long, didn't read. Better luck next time.

Shorter version Taz:

Jihadists are a SALAFI cult and POLITICAL REGIME.
Not universal for all Muslims obeying Civil Authority.

All Muslims want to live under Sharia Law. World domination by the Koran is the ultimate goal. Don't be fooled.

Dear Taz the only thing that can dominate the world is love that everyone wants
and freedom from fear and stress that nobody wants.

As for Muslims, "shariah" refers to all practices including prayer and charity.
"Shariah Law" means the POLITICAL RELIGION that not all Muslims follow.

Are you leaving out Muslim Constitutional lawyers, scholars and veterans who
put duty to country and the Constitution before personal beliefs that remain private?

Are you saying they are no longer Muslims if they put the Constitution first?

That's exactly what I'm saying. If they don't put Sharia first, they aren't real Muslims, or more likely, they are just lying. They all want to live under Sharia. bar none.

That’s odd because the Muslim predominant nations of Albania, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Cameroon, Chad, Gabon, Guinea-Bissau, Guinea, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mali, Mozambique, Niger, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Turkey, Tunisia, Togo, and Uzbekistan, declared the law under their Constitutions to be “completely secular” in nature, and Sharia has no role in the legal process.

Drop the mic.

Dear ding and Taz
When I asked a Muslim coworker I know about the situation with Shariah Law in Nigeria,
he said there was a cultlike group of militants taking over some regions and instigating
this oppressive type regime THROUGH GOVT (IE Political Religionists).

He said it was very bad news, like chopping off hands
without proper judicial process. Very dangerous and you don't want to go there!
He is Muslim and came from a family line of leaders, and he
said you don't want to get mixed in with any of this "Shariah Law" business.

When I asked about other things:
* He said with honor killings these are 'always the Pakistani extremists' doing that.
It's some cultural issue that they go to extremes with.

* Also he said that the whole "Burqa head covering" thing was also Arabic culture
and not Islam. The way most people teach it is the people cover their heads
WHILE THEY ARE PRAYING IN THE MOSQUE CHURCH OR TEMPLE.
And they REMOVE the head covering when they leave the worship service.

Only in CERTAIN countries have they made this into a cultural rule or requirement
but it is NOT universal to all Islam.

 

[emilynghiem]

That's exactly what I'm saying. If they don't put Sharia first, they aren't real Muslims, or more likely, they are just lying. They all want to live under Sharia. bar none.

so Taz what do you call Muslims
who follow civil and Constitutional laws like other citizens.

You don't call them Muslim what do you call them?

Are they Christians who just speak the Muslim language
and practice that culture but they are really Christian?

So it's just another "denomination" of Christianity
to follow the Bible and Bill of Rights like other citizens do?

^ Taz if that's too long
how about this proposal:
1. using JIHADISTS to mean the TERRORISTS committing violent attacks outside their regimes
2. using ISLAMISTS to mean the OPPRESSIVE political religion within their nations
3. using MUSLIMS to mean the peaceful CIVIL people who are neither 2 or 1

 

[ding]

It’s not that RWS and Taz don’t have facts. It’s just that their facts are all wrong.

 

[Taz]

It’s not that RWS and Taz don’t have facts. It’s just that their facts are all wrong.

If they are wrong, they can't be facts. Now you know.

 

[Taz]

That's exactly what I'm saying. If they don't put Sharia first, they aren't real Muslims, or more likely, they are just lying. They all want to live under Sharia. bar none.

so Taz what do you call Muslims
who follow civil and Constitutional laws like other citizens.

You don't call them Muslim what do you call them?

Are they Christians who just speak the Muslim language
and practice that culture but they are really Christian?

So it's just another "denomination" of Christianity
to follow the Bible and Bill of Rights like other citizens do?

^ Taz if that's too long
how about this proposal:
1. using JIHADISTS to mean the TERRORISTS committing violent attacks outside their regimes
2. using ISLAMISTS to mean the OPPRESSIVE political religion within their nations
3. using MUSLIMS to mean the peaceful CIVIL people who are neither 2 or 1

All Muslims support Jihad and Sharia. All of them.

 

[Taz]

Too long, didn't read. Better luck next time.

Shorter version Taz:

Jihadists are a SALAFI cult and POLITICAL REGIME.
Not universal for all Muslims obeying Civil Authority.

All Muslims want to live under Sharia Law. World domination by the Koran is the ultimate goal. Don't be fooled.

Dear Taz the only thing that can dominate the world is love that everyone wants
and freedom from fear and stress that nobody wants.

As for Muslims, "shariah" refers to all practices including prayer and charity.
"Shariah Law" means the POLITICAL RELIGION that not all Muslims follow.

Are you leaving out Muslim Constitutional lawyers, scholars and veterans who
put duty to country and the Constitution before personal beliefs that remain private?

Are you saying they are no longer Muslims if they put the Constitution first?

That's exactly what I'm saying. If they don't put Sharia first, they aren't real Muslims, or more likely, they are just lying. They all want to live under Sharia. bar none.

That’s odd because the Muslim predominant nations of Albania, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Cameroon, Chad, Gabon, Guinea-Bissau, Guinea, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mali, Mozambique, Niger, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Turkey, Tunisia, Togo, and Uzbekistan, declared the law under their Constitutions to be “completely secular” in nature, and Sharia has no role in the legal process.

Drop the mic.

emi, it's just his say so. Dingbat will never give you a proper link. Ever.

 

[emilynghiem]

emi, it's just his say so. Dingbat will never give you a proper link. Ever.

Taz ding
If we communicate effectively, links are not necessary.
We can go with the experiences we carry with us, for the most part,
and just compare perceptions.

The part that would require outside information verified
is statistical studies on spiritual healing if you are going to
show that's a recurring pattern and process that can be REPLICATED.

I'm most interested in expanding on the scientific studies already done.
And apply this to more cases and conditions to show how
forgiveness correlates with healing of mind, body and relationships.

 

[emilynghiem]

All Muslims support Jihad and Sharia. All of them.

Dear Taz
In order to agree with you on where you are right,
* the term Jihad would have to mean "Struggle for Peace" where someone spiritually
commits by conscience to obey what is right and good
and refrain from anything selfish wrong harmful or evil.
[This has at least 3 intepretations, some use jihad to
mean INTERNALLY only where others mean external also.]

* Sharia would have to mean ALL the practices by
Muslims, including fasting, giving charity, praying.
[again Sharia LAW is used in Islamic states
that mix religion with govt, which isn't advisable]

I think by "Shariah LAW" YOU mean POLITICAL religion while
I mean Sharia the SPIRITUAL teachings. Since we are talking about
two different things, that is why we disagree.

I'd rather agree with you, based on the TRADITIONAL
meaning of jihad and sharia that have nothing to do
with the "political religions" that oppress people.

As for the POLITICAL religion which is the problem,
that's why I support CONSTITUTIONAL education and agreement
to check all religions including parties against abuses of govt.

 

[emilynghiem]

That's exactly what I'm saying. If they don't put Sharia first, they aren't real Muslims, or more likely, they are just lying. They all want to live under Sharia. bar none.

Dear Taz see above.
Using Sharia in the traditional sense, Yes, this means followers
committing to all the NORMAL Muslim practices of prayer, fasting,
charity, and obeying God's or universal good will for all.

Clearly violent attacks are not out of good will.
This is clearly politicized religion or cults that do that.

Two problems causing this are if Muslims refuse resolving conflicts by
* rejecting Christianity where the Bible is part of Muslim laws
* rejecting Constitutional checks on govt which is ALSO part of CIVIL OBEDIENCE by the Bible

However, Taz all the Muslims I know respect due process and resolving issues
civilly and lawfully. They do not reject Christianity or Constitutional laws
as in countries where Islamic regimes take over and impose theocratic "shariah laws."

Again, you and I are talking about two totally different contexts then,
where the Muslims I know naturally follow principles in Christianity
and Constitutional laws as coming from the same source.

Taz if you want to discuss these two checks
to stop political abuses and war, including Islamic terrorist and Jihadists,
that might be more effective than trying to argue which is the correct
way of teaching Islam, since neither us follow that.

I believe restorative justice and spiritual healing will do more to
correct the causes, instead of arguing about Muslim teachings.

 

[ding]

Shorter version Taz:

Jihadists are a SALAFI cult and POLITICAL REGIME.
Not universal for all Muslims obeying Civil Authority.

All Muslims want to live under Sharia Law. World domination by the Koran is the ultimate goal. Don't be fooled.

Dear Taz the only thing that can dominate the world is love that everyone wants
and freedom from fear and stress that nobody wants.

As for Muslims, "shariah" refers to all practices including prayer and charity.
"Shariah Law" means the POLITICAL RELIGION that not all Muslims follow.

Are you leaving out Muslim Constitutional lawyers, scholars and veterans who
put duty to country and the Constitution before personal beliefs that remain private?

Are you saying they are no longer Muslims if they put the Constitution first?

That's exactly what I'm saying. If they don't put Sharia first, they aren't real Muslims, or more likely, they are just lying. They all want to live under Sharia. bar none.

That’s odd because the Muslim predominant nations of Albania, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Cameroon, Chad, Gabon, Guinea-Bissau, Guinea, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mali, Mozambique, Niger, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Turkey, Tunisia, Togo, and Uzbekistan, declared the law under their Constitutions to be “completely secular” in nature, and Sharia has no role in the legal process.

Drop the mic.

emi, it's just his say so. Dingbat will never give you a proper link. Ever.

What do you need a link for now?

 

[ding]

It’s not that RWS and Taz don’t have facts. It’s just that their facts are all wrong.

If they are wrong, they can't be facts. Now you know.

Exactly. That’s what I was saying.

 

[ding]

That's exactly what I'm saying. If they don't put Sharia first, they aren't real Muslims, or more likely, they are just lying. They all want to live under Sharia. bar none.

so Taz what do you call Muslims
who follow civil and Constitutional laws like other citizens.

You don't call them Muslim what do you call them?

Are they Christians who just speak the Muslim language
and practice that culture but they are really Christian?

So it's just another "denomination" of Christianity
to follow the Bible and Bill of Rights like other citizens do?

^ Taz if that's too long
how about this proposal:
1. using JIHADISTS to mean the TERRORISTS committing violent attacks outside their regimes
2. using ISLAMISTS to mean the OPPRESSIVE political religion within their nations
3. using MUSLIMS to mean the peaceful CIVIL people who are neither 2 or 1

All Muslims support Jihad and Sharia. All of them.

Didn’t I already deal with this?

The Muslim predominant nations of Albania, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Cameroon, Chad, Gabon, Guinea-Bissau, Guinea, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mali, Mozambique, Niger, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Turkey, Tunisia, Togo, and Uzbekistan, declared the law under their Constitutions to be “completely secular” in nature, and Sharia has no role in the legal process.

 

[emilynghiem]

That's exactly what I'm saying. If they don't put Sharia first, they aren't real Muslims, or more likely, they are just lying. They all want to live under Sharia. bar none.

so Taz what do you call Muslims
who follow civil and Constitutional laws like other citizens.

You don't call them Muslim what do you call them?

Are they Christians who just speak the Muslim language
and practice that culture but they are really Christian?

So it's just another "denomination" of Christianity
to follow the Bible and Bill of Rights like other citizens do?

^ Taz if that's too long
how about this proposal:
1. using JIHADISTS to mean the TERRORISTS committing violent attacks outside their regimes
2. using ISLAMISTS to mean the OPPRESSIVE political religion within their nations
3. using MUSLIMS to mean the peaceful CIVIL people who are neither 2 or 1

All Muslims support Jihad and Sharia. All of them.

Didn’t I already deal with this?

The Muslim predominant nations of Albania, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Cameroon, Chad, Gabon, Guinea-Bissau, Guinea, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mali, Mozambique, Niger, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Turkey, Tunisia, Togo, and Uzbekistan, declared the law under their Constitutions to be “completely secular” in nature, and Sharia has no role in the legal process.

Dear ding and Taz
Clearly we are talking about 2-3 different things.

Taz is focused on the POLITICAL RELIGION which terms like ISLAMIST and JIHADIST are used to refer to.

You and I are talking about the INDIVIDUAL SPIRITUAL practice and teachings of Muslims that are not the same thing.

Taz also indicated that words/theory mean nothing next to real action and visible proof of what we're talking about

ding back to the idea: Why not promote a solution that DEMONSTRATES Christian faith and impact on healing the sick and abused, curing disease, and preventing further crime and violence.

At the same time, we can include members of the Muslim community who believe in Restorative Justice solutions. This will show the common message is independent of what religious or cultural background people are. I happen to know a local leader of CAIR who works side by side with other Peace and Justice volunteers and programs, including a leading Catholic advocate against the death penalty.

I can ask their help to bring together a coalition of Christian, Muslim, Secular and Catholic authorities on organizing a REAL LIFE solution, like an alternative prison program on the Border that would safely detain capital criminals and sex offenders, but instead of the death penalty, the people who don't believe in funding that pay to support life sentences including restitution and rehabilitation.

I already mentioned the idea of setting up an alternative to death row for the surviving Boston attacker. Why not have him serve for life by providing living assistance and medical care to the Ft. Hood Shooter who was deemed mentally ill so that's why he got a life sentence instead of the death penalty.

Wouldn't a real life demonstration of how Restorative Justice unites and heals people's minds and relationships work better than arguing back and forth about what Muslims or Christians believe or mean by their teachings?

Why not demonstrate it, and let actions and RESULTS speak for themselves.

 

[ding]

That's exactly what I'm saying. If they don't put Sharia first, they aren't real Muslims, or more likely, they are just lying. They all want to live under Sharia. bar none.

so Taz what do you call Muslims
who follow civil and Constitutional laws like other citizens.

You don't call them Muslim what do you call them?

Are they Christians who just speak the Muslim language
and practice that culture but they are really Christian?

So it's just another "denomination" of Christianity
to follow the Bible and Bill of Rights like other citizens do?

^ Taz if that's too long
how about this proposal:
1. using JIHADISTS to mean the TERRORISTS committing violent attacks outside their regimes
2. using ISLAMISTS to mean the OPPRESSIVE political religion within their nations
3. using MUSLIMS to mean the peaceful CIVIL people who are neither 2 or 1

All Muslims support Jihad and Sharia. All of them.

Didn’t I already deal with this?

The Muslim predominant nations of Albania, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Cameroon, Chad, Gabon, Guinea-Bissau, Guinea, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mali, Mozambique, Niger, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Turkey, Tunisia, Togo, and Uzbekistan, declared the law under their Constitutions to be “completely secular” in nature, and Sharia has no role in the legal process.

Dear ding and Taz
Clearly we are talking about 2-3 different things.

Taz is focused on the POLITICAL RELIGION which terms like ISLAMIST and JIHADIST are used to refer to.

You and I are talking about the INDIVIDUAL SPIRITUAL practice and teachings of Muslims that are not the same thing.

Taz also indicated that words/theory mean nothing next to real action and visible proof of what we're talking about

ding back to the idea: Why not promote a solution that DEMONSTRATES Christian faith and impact on healing the sick and abused, curing disease, and preventing further crime and violence.

At the same time, we can include members of the Muslim community who believe in Restorative Justice solutions. This will show the common message is independent of what religious or cultural background people are. I happen to know a local leader of CAIR who works side by side with other Peace and Justice volunteers and programs, including a leading Catholic advocate against the death penalty.

I can ask their help to bring together a coalition of Christian, Muslim, Secular and Catholic authorities on organizing a REAL LIFE solution, like an alternative prison program on the Border that would safely detain capital criminals and sex offenders, but instead of the death penalty, the people who don't believe in funding that pay to support life sentences including restitution and rehabilitation.

I already mentioned the idea of setting up an alternative to death row for the surviving Boston attacker. Why not have him serve for life by providing living assistance and medical care to the Ft. Hood Shooter who was deemed mentally ill so that's why he got a life sentence instead of the death penalty.

Wouldn't a real life demonstration of how Restorative Justice unites and heals people's minds and relationships work better than arguing back and forth about what Muslims or Christians believe or mean by their teachings?

Why not demonstrate it, and let actions and RESULTS speak for themselves.

I’m pretty sure my only point here is that Taz is wrong when she stereotypes all Muslims.

That other stuff is yours.

 

[RWS]

I don't know about that, but i do know that religions are made to create armies and donators. To help the rulers.