Ron Paul: Putin Has "Law On His Side" With Crimea Invasion...

[Moonglow]

I thought America supported Freedom & Democracy? Guess that's out the window now. Egypt, now Ukraine? Looks like we have no problem with illegal Military Coups these days. In my opinion, forcing American Taxpayers to finance such coups is illegal. I believe our Government is violating Law in funding these coups with Foreign Aid dollars. It should be challenged.

When have we ever had a problem doing it in the past 200 years?

 

[paulitician]

I am not talking about the Gold Standard.

So what part of what he said do you oppose. The part where he said we shouldn't have financed the coup in Ukraine or the part where we should let the people of Crimea determine their political destiny?

The part where he said that Putin has the law on his side.

And the "people of Crimea" argument is akin to letting Atlanta nationalize all the farms in rural Georgia if the state holds a referendum on the matter. Why not let the people decide, right?

Let's put it to a vote, decide (for them) how farmlands work everywhere and democracy can live by default wherever we choose. lol

Sadly, we are now endorsing and funding illegal Military Coups. It's what we've done in Egypt and Ukraine. We have no room to preach about Democracy. I also think the legality of using Tax Dollars to fund such coups, should be fiercely challenged. It's not how Foreign Aid should be spent.

 

[asterism]

I am not talking about the Gold Standard.

So what part of what he said do you oppose. The part where he said we shouldn't have financed the coup in Ukraine or the part where we should let the people of Crimea determine their political destiny?

The part where he said that Putin has the law on his side.

And the "people of Crimea" argument is akin to letting Atlanta nationalize all the farms in rural Georgia if the state holds a referendum on the matter. Why not let the people decide, right?

If enough people in Atlanta, or Georgia, want to break away from the US Government, I would support them. I mean, America was founded on secession and the consent of the governed. A government that forces people into union with it is no longer legitimate, at least according to the founders of the United States.

It doesn't work that way. Florida cannot secede because it's too important to use strategically. That was the deal when they joined the union.

So your argument with him is on his language?

He's a brilliant man, he chooses his words carefully and he always means what he says (to his credit).

Or you really think the US should get involved in the Crimea issue? Doing what exactly?

Sanctions galore, pressure and subsidies for Europe to cut off his energy revenue, and a hot war with Russia if Putin decides to go for broke and take over a US Protectorate. That's what this is, a game of chess.

Too bad Obama is playing Uno.

 

[Steinlight]

Ron Paul a real American and true patriot, shame he never won.

He is right, this isn't our business. We should have never incited unrest in Ukraine to begin with and should let the people of Crimea determine their own political destiny.

Except, the people of Crimea have no choice to determine their own political destiny.

Declining being annexed by Russia is not a choice in Sunday's voting.

Ron Paul a real American and true patriot, shame he never won.

He is right, this isn't our business. We should have never incited unrest in Ukraine to begin with and should let the people of Crimea determine their own political destiny.

He is a real American and he is a true patriot. He's just wrong about foreign policy and the gold standard.

Who is a fake American?

Yes, they have a choice to remain in Ukraine, that's another lie.

"1. “Are you in favor of the reunification of Crimea with Russia as a part of the Russian Federation?”

2. “Are you in favor of restoring the 1992 Constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?”"

You are a fake American

 

[Synthaholic]

Ron Paul a real American and true patriot, shame he never won.

He is right, this isn't our business. We should have never incited unrest in Ukraine to begin with and should let the people of Crimea determine their own political destiny.

Except, the people of Crimea have no choice to determine their own political destiny.

Declining being annexed by Russia is not a choice in Sunday's voting.

He is a real American and he is a true patriot. He's just wrong about foreign policy and the gold standard.

Who is a fake American?

George Soros.

I see your George Soros and raise you a Rupert Murdoch!

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

And he's wrong.

The US has every right to lecture on Ukraine and actually has a treaty obligating us to support the Ukraine against a Russian invasion.

Dr. Paul is a great man but he's too isolationist and that didn't work out so well in the late 1930s.

The U.S. has supported an illegal coup there. Since when do we support illegal Military Coups? No, we don't have a right to preach to Putin and Russia. It's very disingenuous and hypocritical. It's not our fight. We shouldn't be involved.

And we should be involved, we signed a treaty. Now you can make a case that we should nullify that treaty because it no longer serves our interests and I'd probably support that. But we can't just up and decide that these things are no longer our problem and leave our allies in the lurch. Ukraine took a huge risk when they liberated themselves from the old Soviet Union and that was a big (HUGE) deal for us.

Not that big. All of the Soviet satellites won their freedom one-by-one, and it was basically a free-for-all.

 

[asterism]

The part where he said that Putin has the law on his side.

And the "people of Crimea" argument is akin to letting Atlanta nationalize all the farms in rural Georgia if the state holds a referendum on the matter. Why not let the people decide, right?

Let's put it to a vote, decide (for them) how farmlands work everywhere and democracy can live by default wherever we choose. lol

Sadly, we are now endorsing and funding illegal Military Coups. It's what we've done in Egypt and Ukraine. We have no room to preach about Democracy. I also think the legality of using Tax Dollars to fund such coups, should be fiercely challenged. It's not how Foreign Aid should be spent.

That's the funny part about military coups, they aren't illegal. Might makes right as long as the collateral damage doesn't rise to a level unacceptable to the big guys on the block. It's cruel and brutal sometime, but it beats the shit out of Neville Chamberlain's version of strategy.

 

[paulitician]

And he's wrong.

The US has every right to lecture on Ukraine and actually has a treaty obligating us to support the Ukraine against a Russian invasion.

Dr. Paul is a great man but he's too isolationist and that didn't work out so well in the late 1930s.

The U.S. has supported an illegal coup there. Since when do we support illegal Military Coups? No, we don't have a right to preach to Putin and Russia. It's very disingenuous and hypocritical. It's not our fight. We shouldn't be involved.

What was illegal about it?

And we should be involved, we signed a treaty. Now you can make a case that we should nullify that treaty because it no longer serves our interests and I'd probably support that. But we can't just up and decide that these things are no longer our problem and leave our allies in the lurch. Ukraine took a huge risk when they liberated themselves from the old Soviet Union and that was a big (HUGE) deal for us.

Keep your eye on the ball. The Soviet Union didn't have thousands of ICBMs pointed at us for 50 years because they were worried about us taking their territory. They did that so we would compromise on their expansion into Europe and accept the Iron Curtain as a line of detente.

No matter how much I love and am inspired by the Honorable Dr. Paul, he's wrong here.

The Government in Ukraine was illegally overthrown. And we supported it. That's not supporting Democracy.

 

[asterism]

The U.S. has supported an illegal coup there. Since when do we support illegal Military Coups? No, we don't have a right to preach to Putin and Russia. It's very disingenuous and hypocritical. It's not our fight. We shouldn't be involved.

And we should be involved, we signed a treaty. Now you can make a case that we should nullify that treaty because it no longer serves our interests and I'd probably support that. But we can't just up and decide that these things are no longer our problem and leave our allies in the lurch. Ukraine took a huge risk when they liberated themselves from the old Soviet Union and that was a big (HUGE) deal for us.

Not that big. All of the Soviet satellites won their freedom one-by-one, and it was basically a free-for-all.

Starting with whom (that had any strategic significance)?

 

[paulitician]

Let's put it to a vote, decide (for them) how farmlands work everywhere and democracy can live by default wherever we choose. lol

Sadly, we are now endorsing and funding illegal Military Coups. It's what we've done in Egypt and Ukraine. We have no room to preach about Democracy. I also think the legality of using Tax Dollars to fund such coups, should be fiercely challenged. It's not how Foreign Aid should be spent.

That's the funny part about military coups, they aren't illegal. Might makes right as long as the collateral damage doesn't rise to a level unacceptable to the big guys on the block. It's cruel and brutal sometime, but it beats the shit out of Neville Chamberlain's version of strategy.

We're not supposed to support illegal Military Coups. We're supposed to stand for Democracy. And we definitely shouldn't be funding these coups with American Tax Dollars. $1 Billion to Ukraine? That's just wrong.

 

[Synthaholic]

Ron Paul a real American and true patriot, shame he never won.

He is right, this isn't our business. We should have never incited unrest in Ukraine to begin with and should let the people of Crimea determine their own political destiny.

Except, the people of Crimea have no choice to determine their own political destiny.

Declining being annexed by Russia is not a choice in Sunday's voting.

He is a real American and he is a true patriot. He's just wrong about foreign policy and the gold standard.

Who is a fake American?

Yes, they have a choice to remain in Ukraine, that's another lie.

"1. “Are you in favor of the reunification of Crimea with Russia as a part of the Russian Federation?”

2. “Are you in favor of restoring the 1992 Constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?”"

You are a fake American

Sorry, dope.

2 Choices in Crimea Referendum, but Neither Is ‘No’



Crimea will vote on Sunday in a ballot referendum that leaders of the regional Parliament expect will ratify their decision to break away from Ukraine and become part of Russia. The referendum will offer two choices, neither one of them “No”:


1. “Are you in favor of the reunification of Crimea with Russia as a part of the Russian Federation?”


2. “Are you in favor of restoring the 1992 Constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?”


Voters will have to mark one option affirmatively, but they cannot vote for the status quo.


A return to the 1992 Constitution — adopted after the Soviet collapse but quickly thrown out by the post-Soviet Ukraine — would effectively provide for Crimea’s independence, while remaining part of Ukraine. The Crimean government would have broad powers to chart its own course, including its relations with other nations such as Russia.


Retaining Crimea’s current status, which provides for more limited autonomy from the central government in Kiev, is not an option, which may help explain why the Crimean Tatars have refused to take part in the voting. No matter what voters choose, the regional Parliament seems intent on changing its relationship with Kiev. Meanwhile, Ukraine’s new leadership and its Western allies insist that the referendum is illegal.

 

[asterism]

The U.S. has supported an illegal coup there. Since when do we support illegal Military Coups? No, we don't have a right to preach to Putin and Russia. It's very disingenuous and hypocritical. It's not our fight. We shouldn't be involved.

What was illegal about it?

And we should be involved, we signed a treaty. Now you can make a case that we should nullify that treaty because it no longer serves our interests and I'd probably support that. But we can't just up and decide that these things are no longer our problem and leave our allies in the lurch. Ukraine took a huge risk when they liberated themselves from the old Soviet Union and that was a big (HUGE) deal for us.

Keep your eye on the ball. The Soviet Union didn't have thousands of ICBMs pointed at us for 50 years because they were worried about us taking their territory. They did that so we would compromise on their expansion into Europe and accept the Iron Curtain as a line of detente.

No matter how much I love and am inspired by the Honorable Dr. Paul, he's wrong here.

The Government in Ukraine was illegally overthrown. And we supported it. That's not supporting Democracy.

We supported our national security interests. We're committed to supporting Democracy when we can, but we can't always do that, like the case of our treaty with the Ukraine.

 

[paulitician]

I suspect oil might be playing a part in our involvement in this conflict. Why the sudden infatuation with Ukraine? Something is amiss with this one.

 

[Steinlight]

The part where he said that Putin has the law on his side.

And the "people of Crimea" argument is akin to letting Atlanta nationalize all the farms in rural Georgia if the state holds a referendum on the matter. Why not let the people decide, right?

If enough people in Atlanta, or Georgia, want to break away from the US Government, I would support them. I mean, America was founded on secession and the consent of the governed. A government that forces people into union with it is no longer legitimate, at least according to the founders of the United States.

It doesn't work that way. Florida cannot secede because it's too important to use strategically. That was the deal when they joined the union.

So your argument with him is on his language?

He's a brilliant man, he chooses his words carefully and he always means what he says (to his credit).

Or you really think the US should get involved in the Crimea issue? Doing what exactly?

Sanctions galore, pressure and subsidies for Europe to cut off his energy revenue, and a hot war with Russia if Putin decides to go for broke and take over a US Protectorate. That's what this is, a game of chess.

Too bad Obama is playing Uno.

Now you are conflating America and Crimea, stay on task.

And no shit, secession is "illegal". It was "illegal" to secede from Great Britain, but the Founders staked their lives on succeeding in their law breaking, and forming their own legal system.

The whole point of secession is nullifying the old legal code in favor of a new one. So complaining that it is illegal is rather silly.

The principles of self determination and secession override the law in my opinion. What Ron Paul is saying that based on the principles America was founded on, non-intervention, self determination, and secession, we shouldn't be getting involved in Ukraine and Crimea, and that Putin is within rights based on those principles protecting the sovereignty of the people of Crimea.

Introducing sanctions will hurt Europe more than Russia. Russia can just sell their gas to Africa, Asia, and the Middle East. All sanctions and a hot war will do is sink Europe into further depression and risk World War 3, which America will either lose due to being extended and weakened overseas or lose a lot of blood and treasure in winning. And for what, so some oligarchs and bankers like Soros can carve up Eastern Europe and Russia to line their pockets?

Fuck that, this isn't America's fight. These parasites aren't Americans.

 

[asterism]

Except, the people of Crimea have no choice to determine their own political destiny.

Declining being annexed by Russia is not a choice in Sunday's voting.





Who is a fake American?

George Soros.

I see your George Soros and raise you a Rupert Murdoch!

Eh, he's a Brit. They are funny folks.

 

[Steinlight]

Except, the people of Crimea have no choice to determine their own political destiny.

Declining being annexed by Russia is not a choice in Sunday's voting.





Who is a fake American?

Yes, they have a choice to remain in Ukraine, that's another lie.

"1. “Are you in favor of the reunification of Crimea with Russia as a part of the Russian Federation?”

2. “Are you in favor of restoring the 1992 Constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?”"

You are a fake American

Sorry, dope.

2 Choices in Crimea Referendum, but Neither Is ‘No’



Crimea will vote on Sunday in a ballot referendum that leaders of the regional Parliament expect will ratify their decision to break away from Ukraine and become part of Russia. The referendum will offer two choices, neither one of them “No”:


1. “Are you in favor of the reunification of Crimea with Russia as a part of the Russian Federation?”


2. “Are you in favor of restoring the 1992 Constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?”


Voters will have to mark one option affirmatively, but they cannot vote for the status quo.


A return to the 1992 Constitution — adopted after the Soviet collapse but quickly thrown out by the post-Soviet Ukraine — would effectively provide for Crimea’s independence, while remaining part of Ukraine. The Crimean government would have broad powers to chart its own course, including its relations with other nations such as Russia.


Retaining Crimea’s current status, which provides for more limited autonomy from the central government in Kiev, is not an option, which may help explain why the Crimean Tatars have refused to take part in the voting. No matter what voters choose, the regional Parliament seems intent on changing its relationship with Kiev. Meanwhile, Ukraine’s new leadership and its Western allies insist that the referendum is illegal.

Jesus Christ, no wonder you are a fucking democrat, you can't even read or remember your last post, shit. You are so far up that homosexual kenyan's ass you have no way out.

You said, "not being annexed by Russia is not a choice". My post, and your re-pasting of my post shows option two, which lets Crimea stay in Ukraine, disproves your point.

Fucking moron.

Shoot yourself in the head and do us all a favor.

 

[paulitician]

Are we really in a moral position to lecture Russia? Americans need to think about that a bit more before rushing to support our interfering in yet another Nation's affairs.

 

[asterism]

Sadly, we are now endorsing and funding illegal Military Coups. It's what we've done in Egypt and Ukraine. We have no room to preach about Democracy. I also think the legality of using Tax Dollars to fund such coups, should be fiercely challenged. It's not how Foreign Aid should be spent.

That's the funny part about military coups, they aren't illegal. Might makes right as long as the collateral damage doesn't rise to a level unacceptable to the big guys on the block. It's cruel and brutal sometime, but it beats the shit out of Neville Chamberlain's version of strategy.

We're not supposed to support illegal Military Coups. We're supposed to stand for Democracy. And we definitely shouldn't be funding these coups with American Tax Dollars. $1 Billion to Ukraine? That's just wrong.

I think you should follow your logic and look at the War of 1812.

It takes a whole lot of intervention and back room strategy to foster a "laissez faire" environment. Do you really want another Soviet Union with Putin looking at Alaska? After all, it's just a small part of our population that we can get out and all he wants to do is get the oil in ANWR that we refuse to drill for ourselves.

Dr. Paul's problem in this is that he doesn't have much of an appreciation for military strategy, the very same strategy that allows his version of freedom to even have a voice.

 

[Synthaholic]

George Soros.

I see your George Soros and raise you a Rupert Murdoch!

Eh, he's a Brit. They are funny folks.

No, he's an Aussie - no sense of humor in those blokes.

 

[asterism]

Except, the people of Crimea have no choice to determine their own political destiny.

Declining being annexed by Russia is not a choice in Sunday's voting.





Who is a fake American?

Yes, they have a choice to remain in Ukraine, that's another lie.

"1. “Are you in favor of the reunification of Crimea with Russia as a part of the Russian Federation?”

2. “Are you in favor of restoring the 1992 Constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?”"

You are a fake American

Sorry, dope.

2 Choices in Crimea Referendum, but Neither Is ‘No’



Crimea will vote on Sunday in a ballot referendum that leaders of the regional Parliament expect will ratify their decision to break away from Ukraine and become part of Russia. The referendum will offer two choices, neither one of them “No”:


1. “Are you in favor of the reunification of Crimea with Russia as a part of the Russian Federation?”


2. “Are you in favor of restoring the 1992 Constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?”


Voters will have to mark one option affirmatively, but they cannot vote for the status quo.


A return to the 1992 Constitution — adopted after the Soviet collapse but quickly thrown out by the post-Soviet Ukraine — would effectively provide for Crimea’s independence, while remaining part of Ukraine. The Crimean government would have broad powers to chart its own course, including its relations with other nations such as Russia.


Retaining Crimea’s current status, which provides for more limited autonomy from the central government in Kiev, is not an option, which may help explain why the Crimean Tatars have refused to take part in the voting. No matter what voters choose, the regional Parliament seems intent on changing its relationship with Kiev. Meanwhile, Ukraine’s new leadership and its Western allies insist that the referendum is illegal.

The Crimean government that is heavily corrupted with Putin cronies.


Pretty good deal for Putin, head he wins and tails the Crimeans lose.