So the republican solution to our healthcare system is as little government as possible right?

[beautress]

80% of workers in this country live paycheck to paycheck. People have no choice but to work shit jobs because wages are way behind on the cost of living.

What do you consider a "shit job,?

 

[Mr Natural]

What do you consider a "shit job,?

A job in which you live paycheck to paycheck.

 

[westwall]

I was at the doctors a few years back. He tossed the paperwork for his previous Medicaid patient in the trash can. He said he would lose money on it, it costs him more money to submit the claim to government for reimbursement than they pay him.

Most practitioners out here no longer accept it.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Calm yourself moocher, remember it's MY money I earned it. Pay your own damn bills. I'm also not going to pay for your cable tv, liquor or toilet paper.

I do pay my own bills, fool.. Sounds like you are circling the drain though

 

[Billy000]

What do you consider a "shit job,?

Uh any job that is below middle class.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Cradle to grave welfare is already costing a great deal

Free healthcare is just an added cost for hardworking taxpayers who have to foot the bill

Providing some minimal charity medical care is inevitable

But we have to be smart about it

For instance providing costly medical care for Americans is a good reason to end the influx of poor migrants that take away healthcare for Americans

Do you agree?

No I do not agree.....with any of it. Subsidized health care for working people is not welfare. You are as dense as a rock!

 

[Mac-7]

No I do not agree.....with any of it. Subsidized health care for working people is not welfare. You are as dense as a rock!

Answer the question

Do you expect Americans to provide free healthcare for 10s of millions of foreigners?

 

[HikerGuy83]

Our healthcare system sucks and no private Industry can fix it.

We have a great healthcare system.

We have a health insurance issue.

Private industry doesn't want to fix it.

So Romney care is better than ACA?

I don't recall saying that. What I said was that Obamacare lived off or Romneycare. IOW: Romenycare was held up as being successful and a "point" for Obamacare.

If you think Finland has a good system what the fuck even is your point? Obviously the government runs that system.

Don't ready to well do you.

Finland is a country of 5 million people. Smaller than about 1/2 our states. I said states would be better than the federal government. What did you think I was talking about ? The state educational system ?

States exist to give their citizens more autonmy and choice. Designing one system for 330,000,000 people is stupid and thinking it can be done is even more stupid.

 

[dblack]

My issue with government meddling in health care has never really been about the cost sharing. It's the centralization of control that bothers me. It creates a power nexus to control people. And that kind of power is always used.

 

[HikerGuy83]

The bill was passed with next to zero republican support, you fucking liar.

And barely escaped the SCOTUS. Just like Roe, it can be undone. I am looking forward to that one.

 

[HikerGuy83]

My issue with government meddling in health care has never really been about the cost sharing. It's the centralization of control that bothers me. It creates a power nexus to control people. And that kind of power is always used.

Amen. That has been the mantra of most government programs in history. They have to create power to assure their survival. It sucks.

 

[HikerGuy83]

I don’t think that you see my point at all. For starters, if you did, you would not still be blathering about “ mooching deadbeats”

Whatever they are, they ruin for everyone else. And Government enables that.

The other thing is that once government is in....it's not getting out.

One of my main points is that social programs and health care represent the cost of maintain and sustaining a free market economy

That would be great if someone could define when they stop. I am all for some kind of state (not federal) assistance. But social programs never stop. Egocentric politicians grab for power and are enabled by their big business supporters to maintain "non free market" conditions.

If government could be kept from continuall expanding (and the behest of big business) it would be a much more attractive solution.

workers a subjected to economic forces beyond their control, where the necessities of life are mostly for profit, and where the labor force is viewed as expendable

We are all subjected to that. But this statement way way way oversimplifies things. If you look at the high cost housing people are moving into these days.....it is much bigger and nicer than that of 50 years ago. That isn't necessary and yet people sell their firstborn to get into a house. Market pressure is simply stupid. We just lost a neighbor who figured out he could move to a suburb of Cleveland, buy a nice house and allow his wife to stay at home with their kids instead of paying a stupidly high mortgage on his home. Good choice.

The labor force has always been expendable. It's the way things work. What doesn't work is government preventing the formation of new business. Economics teaches that if someone is making a profit, they see competition. I don't see that happen with some businesses. They are to well protected....by government. I worked for a multi-national and we used government to improve our situation and keep the cost of entry into our markets as high as possible. The workfoce suffered becasue we kept prices high using artificial means.

All of that has clearly been lost on you as is another of my points, which is the fact that not providing certain services and protections will coast a lot more in the end. It is not about “your side supporting my side” It is about the reality that we are interdependent, and ensuring that vulnerable people can maintain a adequate standard of living is as muct about supporting and sustaining your lifestyle and the structures of our socioeconomic system that YOU take for granted

This all sounds nice and there are some true aspects to it. However, it's the way we roll. And you are not doing anyone any favors by bringing the federal government into it. They've been way to involved for way to long and workers still struggle to make ends meet. They are failing.

 

[HikerGuy83]

No I do not agree.....with any of it. Subsidized health care for working people is not welfare. You are as dense as a rock!

STFU. You can disagree, but stick to the point.

It is welfare, but not a handout. It is for their well-fare. I see no issues with that.

In subsidized systems (which many don't find so great), there are ways to control costs. We spend 30% of our health care dollars on end-of-life care. Other countries won't do that. That's a tough conversation but one that needs to be held.

It adds burden to working and should be addressed.

Our system is way to chaotic. It's also way to big.

I'd love to see states step in and get things under control.

The ACA was not affordable and it does not provide much care.

 

[airplanemechanic]

We have enough problems, with out needing to make things up.

Bro, I have enough truth available without needing to make things up. I had to stand behind that woman for 45 min while she was being checked out. I still remember the store, the checkout lane, and what that woman was wearing. That cart looked like an ice cream cone. I had a handful of stuff.

You are allowed like 700 dollars a month or more in food stamps. For her to buy 281 at one time is nothing.

 

[HikerGuy83]

The gov't has, no doubt, contributed to the high cost of medical care.

But what they have done pales in comparison to the cost of what the insurance companies have done.

Not true.

1. Prices started getting stupid when Medicare came on line.
2. We spend a lot of money in administration, much of which is required by insurance companies as a result of government drivers.
3. Technology has come a long way and is expensive. This includes drugs, imaging, and other things.

Insurance companies work on small margins. They are not getting rich off of healthcare.

 

[HikerGuy83]

You are allowed like 700 dollars a month or more in food stamps

I have never heard that number. I will do some looking. That seems high to me.

 

[HikerGuy83]

The republican solution to everything is more tax cuts for the billionaires,

We certainly don't do ourselves any favors there.

However, spending more isn't a good call either.

 

[BackAgain]

In many respects reflected from world history, it is reasonable to suggest that too much government is not a good thing. However, “too much” is a very relative concept. There really is such a thing as “too little of government” and I mean that beyond the measure of anarchy as an alternative. Government, when designed properly, can benefit the lives of its citizens.
ACA is an important point to raise in the this topic. While it is certainly flawed and has failed in some of its promises in terms of affordability, it’s never the less improved healthcare in many ways. It has not changed that ACA has protection for pre-existing conditions for anyone who has health insurance. There is also a much higher cap for how much an insurance policy will cover for a medical event. The cap used to be 500,000 but it became 1,000,000 thanks to ACA. Now you can argue that ACA undermines the definition of insurance, but the point here is that healthcare should not be treated like insurance.

Corporate lobbyists own our politicians. Both the Republican Party and the Democratic Party are slaves to big money. They are guided more by money than by principle. Both parties are bitches to special interests.

The goal of these lobbyists is to strengthen the power of the corporation’s will and to have less regulation by the government. With less government, what is to prevent the healthcare industry from undermining the healthcare their consumers need?

This is already true.

Insurance company: “Hey guess what, if you pay $600 a month, we will eliminate your deductible for basic healthcare needs!”

The point is that Big Pharma has a fiduciary responsibility to maximize profit for their shareholders. This includes undermining the plan the consumer signed up for to save money. Business is business after all.

Only government can ensure that consumers get basic healthcare services.

We don’t have a health care “system.”

Arguably, we shouldn’t.

Government does a very few things well. National healthcare isn’t on the list.

 

[Mac-7]

I have never heard that number. I will do some looking. That seems high to me.

 

[airplanemechanic]

I have never heard that number. I will do some looking. That seems high to me.

Yep. A family of 3 gets that.

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