Taxing The Rich

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yeah cost is the problem, but you’re too dumb to know why.

Oh, I know why. The answer is government.

 

[Oldestyle]

The Democrat plans to tax the rich are futile and ignorant. They sound good to the uneducated, but they don't work very well. When you raise tax rates or reduce deductions on the rich, their typical response is to divert more of their money into tax shelters where they pay less tax. They can afford tax lawyers and CPAs who find ways to reduce their taxes dramatically and it's all legal.

Donald Trump knows how. For several years at a time, he paid no income tax. I don't know all the shelters he used but I can guess. One would be accelerated depreciation on the buildings and furniture he owns. Another would be Net Loss Carryover. When you have a loss in one year, the IRS Code allows you to deduct that loss on the returns for following years. If the NLC is large enough, it can give you zero tax liability for 5 or 6 years. Even people of moderate income can use tax shelters. I have 2 of them.

If you don't try and target the rich, they will pay a fair share of taxes just like everybody else. If you target them with high tax rates, they run for tax shelters.

These Dem idiots never learned what Kennedy, Reagan and Trump learned. Cutting taxes puts more money into the economy and the Fed coffers than raising them ever did. They will never, ever learn that lesson.

Imbeciles is what they are.

Trickle down economics has never worked, but it does enrich the rich enormously.

Trickle down economics doesn't work...BECAUSE TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS DOESN'T EXIST! It's something that was made up by the left to denigrate Supply Side Economics. Whenever someone starts talking about trickle down economics it's a sure sign they don't have a clue about economics in general!

Lol. Trickle down economics is just another name for supply side economics. You must know that right?

No...it's not! If you took Economics you'd know that, Gipper! "Trickle Down Economics" is a pejorative term coined by the left to describe Supply Side Economics in a derogatory fashion.

Well, yes. It’s a pejorative for SUPPLY SIDE ECONOMICS. semantics?

It's not semantics! It describes something that doesn't occur. Profits do not trickle down in any business model I've ever seen. Ownership is always the last to be paid and quite often isn't paid at all.

 

[Nosmo King]

Tax the billionaires big time. Or prevent them from buying government favors and protection. Or both.

Why should they pay a bigger chunk than we do?? They haven't done anything wrong and don't deserve to be penalized. Only a pirate or a gangster tries to rob the rich just because they have money.

We tax the rich because they have the most money.

When 10% of the people hold 90% of the wealth, what sense does it make to tax those WITHOUT money?

 

[Oldestyle]

The dems don’t understand economics or even math.
They think that the rich are somehow locked into staying in high tax areas. They think that their money can’t be moved into other countries.
They don’t realize that businesses can leave money overseas Instead of bringing it into the U.S. where it spends just as well there.
They don’t realize that businesses are not going to take a hit to the bottom line, they will just pass that hit onto higher prices for the consumer.

Raise the minimum wage to raise more tax revenue.

Raise minimum wage to increase prices for goods. Then minimum wage purchases the exact same amount of goods or services.
so it ends up as a wash other then it looks good.

No, it doesn't. Some studies show less than five percent increase in prices. Simply beating the rate of inflation means greater purchasing power for Labor and their propensity to consume. The doubling of the minimum wage will not result in a doubling of prices for anything.

So you're going to increase labor costs by 100% but claim that prices will only go up 5%? You're not the brightest bulb on the tree...are you, Daniel?

Due to minimum wage increases. Other wages could raise it more, but the pay increases need merely beat inflation. Who cares if prices go up if we can afford it with the higher wage. And, a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage also generates several times more in federal income tax revenue.

How does this work, Daniel? The profit margin of your typical brick and mortar store is less than 5%. Their largest expense will typically be payroll which you're now increasing by 100%. So where do you make up the difference?

Prices won't double even if the minimum wage does. The multiplier effect does the rest.

I asked a rather simple question, Daniel...which you've failed to answer. How do you raise labor costs 100% in a business that only has a 5% profit margin and NOT raise the price of goods and services provided by that business?

It is about the minimum wage and minimum wage labor. What percentage of any workforce makes the minimum wage?

Answer the question, Daniel. If you can't...then admit you have no clue what you're talking about...tuck tail and find another string!

You are the one begging the question. You have nothing but Hoax not any understanding of economics.

So your "answer" to a very simple question...is that I have "Hoax"? If you can't answer something that basic, Daniel then it's obvious your minimum wage ideas fall flat on their face.

I took Economics classes at UMass, Amherst College and Boston University. What is your background on the subject?

I'd give it up. You'll never get anything but empty rhetoric from Danny Boy

He wants to know what my "thesis" is on the subject? Daniel's dumb as a box of rocks.

 

[Oldestyle]

Tax the billionaires big time. Or prevent them from buying government favors and protection. Or both.

Why should they pay a bigger chunk than we do?? They haven't done anything wrong and don't deserve to be penalized. Only a pirate or a gangster tries to rob the rich just because they have money.

We tax the rich because they have the most money.

When 10% of the people hold 90% of the wealth, what sense does it make to tax those WITHOUT money?

With all respect, Nosmo...we TRY to tax the rich because they have the most money and they laugh at those efforts as they hide their wealth away in tax shelters! You want to actually pry some of that money out of the pockets of the super rich? Enact a flat tax on everyone. The more stuff you buy...the more tax you pay!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We tax the rich because they have the most money.

When 10% of the people hold 90% of the wealth, what sense does it make to tax those WITHOUT money?

What sense does it make? Don't they live here too? Don't they use more social goodies than the wealthy? Are they part of this country or another one we don't know about?

When you go to a restaurant, do they charge you by the food you order, or do they charge you by how much wealth you have? How about Disneyland? How about the movie theater?

If we are going to take money from people because they have more than others, why stop there? If you have ten beautiful bushes in front of your house, would it not be fair for government to take five of your bushes and give them to somebody that has none? If you have four big screen televisions, would it not be fair for government to take two of your big screens and give them to a family that has no big screens?

If you really want to take money from the wealthy, then quit giving them your money instead.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

With all respect, Nosmo...we TRY to tax the rich because they have the most money and they laugh at those efforts as they hide their wealth away in tax shelters! You want to actually pry some of that money out of the pockets of the super rich? Enact a flat tax on everyone. The more stuff you buy...the more tax you pay!

That would be a consumption tax and I agree with it wholly. I think we should have a ten cents per dollar spent tax and apply it to the national debt. The rich pay, the poor pay, and everybody in between pays. We do that in my county here in Ohio. It's eight cents per every dollar. Five cents goes to the state, and three cents goes to the county.

 

[Viktor]

Tax the billionaires big time. Or prevent them from buying government favors and protection. Or both.

Why should they pay a bigger chunk than we do?? They haven't done anything wrong and don't deserve to be penalized. Only a pirate or a gangster tries to rob the rich just because they have money.

We tax the rich because they have the most money.

When 10% of the people hold 90% of the wealth, what sense does it make to tax those WITHOUT money?

That's what pirates and gangsters do.

 

[Oldestyle]

With all respect, Nosmo...we TRY to tax the rich because they have the most money and they laugh at those efforts as they hide their wealth away in tax shelters! You want to actually pry some of that money out of the pockets of the super rich? Enact a flat tax on everyone. The more stuff you buy...the more tax you pay!

That would be a consumption tax and I agree with it wholly. I think we should have a ten cents per dollar spent tax and apply it to the national debt. The rich pay, the poor pay, and everybody in between pays. We do that in my county here in Ohio. It's eight cents per every dollar. Five cents goes to the state, and three cents goes to the county.

There's also a lot to be said for EVERYONE having some skin in the game, Ray! When you don't pay taxes what incentive do you have to demand that government spends wisely? It's not your money.

 

[gipper]

Tax the billionaires big time. Or prevent them from buying government favors and protection. Or both.

Why should they pay a bigger chunk than we do?? They haven't done anything wrong and don't deserve to be penalized. Only a pirate or a gangster tries to rob the rich just because they have money.

We tax the rich because they have the most money.

When 10% of the people hold 90% of the wealth, what sense does it make to tax those WITHOUT money?

They don’t get this.

 

[DukeU]

Yea, let's tax the rich (some more) and kill more jobs, that should help the poor.

Idiots.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Lol. Well that does it. You don’t want it so that’s the end of story.

Of course you’ve been duped by the wealthy to think as you do.

Our HC system is a total failure. Time to change it.

Only a fool would believe the people who created a problem would have a solution to it--author unknown.

Yes, our healthcare system is a mess. This started years ago during the big union days. I worked in medical at the time. We were erecting a pharmacy in the warehouse to mix drugs for our patients. UPS was on strike at the time. We hired a pharmacist well versed in government regulation to oversee the construction. She approached me one day very angry. She handed me her pharmacy magazine which highlighted the UPS strike.

In the article it said the average pay for a pharmacist was 60K a year. The average pay for a UPS driver was 54K a year. Mad as hell she said "Do you know what I went through to become a pharmacist? Do you know what my parents went through? The years I had to study, the repaying of my college loans, giving up the best years of my life? For what, to make six grand more than the guy that drops off boxes and tells me to sign here?"

Today the medical field is still understaffed, especially when it comes to registered nurses. They only way to draw them into that field of work is to pay them much better than a UPS or UAW worker. That's one of the many reasons our healthcare costs are so high.

People wonder why it is so hard to get teachers these days!

I was working as a classroom teacher with 15 years experience and a Master's degree making the same amount as my wife did in a job working for a cable company that required a high school diploma and no experience.

Well, they do work 9 months leaving time for a summer job for more income or a nice vacation, and they are one of the few jobs with a nice pension built in for a career worked. So not so much to whine about, its more the idiots they have to put up with in the classrooms at older ages.

That summer job is bullshit! We have mandatory (unpaid) training for several weeks during the summer, so STFU. It is not like when your ode dinosaurs to school. Things have changed.

Pension? Every bit of the money I received when I retired from Kentucky I earned as part of my paycheck. Not one cent came from the state except the interest it earned as an untaxed savings account. Florida's pension was a whopping 48% of a lousy pay scale if you did 30 years. I get $400.00 a month based on my 10 years service.
I retired almost 3 years ago, because the state was going to confiscate my retirement account, but the courts ended that bullshit from a Republican governor who never attended school in this state, nor did his kids.

I am sorry, but you are as clueless on this as most libtards are about politics.

Not a libtard jack....my wife is a teacher and has none of the problems you mention, works hours in a retail store all summer long. She makes decent money as a teacher but not, of course, what she is worth. And a pension is a pension, most jobs don't offer them at all anymore. So I guess its all in how you look at things you think??

How does she do that and maintain her continuing education requirements in order to maintain her certification? A pension is worthless if you lose it, like the state tried to do to us several years ago. My current job has ZERO benefits and I am OK with that.

I am sorry, but you are clueless as to the reality of education today. Your wife has YOUR income as backup I will bet.

I am not clueless, clueless. She works hours and she works around any continuing ed she has to get done. Of course a pension is no good if you lose it, duuuh. She doesn't plan on losing hers. You sound more like the whiny liberal here.

I am a conservative but I hate clueless educator wannabes. Politicians (Republican) were threatening my pension. Should I have just said, "Go right ahead, as I am a conservative"?

 

[Viktor]

Yea, let's tax the rich (some more) and kill more jobs, that should help the poor.

Idiots.

YEAH! If we tax them enough, they will leave the country and take their money, business and jobs with them. Then we'll have a nice depression.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Don't they use more social goodies than the wealthy?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Not taxing them isn’t working either. We can’t borrow forever.

While that’s an issue, the much bigger issue is the ultra wealthy buy all sorts of benefits from government. They get what they want and it is almost always at the detriment of the rest of us.

A good example is around 70% of Americans, including many enlightened republicans, want Medicare for All. However, since the ultra wealthy don’t want this, it doesn’t happen.

I'm not wealthy and I don't want it.

Government has been looking to control the people forever. They've been somewhat successful. The only two vestiges stopping them from total control over us are healthcare and energy. Once government controls those two things, they have the ability to to totally control our lives from birth to death.

Lol. Well that does it. You don’t want it so that’s the end of story.

Of course you’ve been duped by the wealthy to think as you do.

Our HC system is a total failure. Time to change it.

Funny! You think that the government does such a good job with everything else that we should turn healthcare over to them also?
Tell me one thing that government has ever done that has been done well and done cost effectively.
I would wait but we all know that the answer is nothing.
Funny that everyone used to point to Canada as a shining example of government healthcare. But now suddenly they are realizing that there are extremely long wait times. Canada is moving towards individual healthcare and some Canadians are coming to the U.S. to have things taken care of.
Now why would we want a government that can not properly do anything to do healthcare? Why would we want to follow in Canada’s footsteps when they are coming over to our way.
if we could just get the government to allow insurances to sell the same policy across all states prices would drop. But when you have to have a different policy for one state but then have a completely different one for a state right next to it the cost has to go up. But yet we allow the government to have a hand in screwing up individual insurance.

Yes that’s the old right wing talking point, and it gets you guys every time.

We have a failing HC system. It’s exponentially more expensive than anywhere else in the world, because the ultra wealthy need more money. It also fails millions of Americans as outcomes are poor. For the first time in our nation’s history, life expectancy is dropping. Millions go bankrupt or don’t receive care because they don’t have insurance or can’t afford the absurdly high costs.

Over 70% of Americans want it. Are we a democracy or not?

My healthcare is just fine, I would hate to be thrown in with the lazy dregs and never be able to get an appointment. Stop rewarding people who are not responsible for themselves libber.

Idiot. Why is it some cons only think of themselves. Are they fucking stupid?

I am responsible for myself and family as is every person. Healthcare is a choice not a right, and anyone who chooses to have it may get it just like I did wacko.

Fool. You are completely clueless. The entire western world offers their citizens HC and does it cheaper and with better outcomes. WTFU.

You may have good HC coverage as I do, but millions of Americans don’t. I care about my country and fellow Americans, unlike you.

Riiiigght.....like the country you all bragged about, Italy...and when the virus hit they nearly wiped out their entire country with their great socialized healthcare. Again, if you and I have good healthcare, then anyone else in the US can have it to. It's their responsibilty and their choice, not mine and not yours, nor is it our job to pay for it. If you truly care for others you would stop handing them freebies and make them work for what they want themselves.

Dumb. I’ve never bragged about Italy. Stop thinking the duopoly is the only thing that exists.

Just bringing up an example of idiotic healthcare for the masses, it won't work. I thought you were smarter.

Dumb. Medicare works well and most Americans love it. Think.

Medicare works well if you have supplement. That's the part you left out!

Regular Medicare is expensive, has deductibles and copays that are very high, and you are subject to the whims of the doctors.

 

[Viktor]

Not taxing them isn’t working either. We can’t borrow forever.

While that’s an issue, the much bigger issue is the ultra wealthy buy all sorts of benefits from government. They get what they want and it is almost always at the detriment of the rest of us.

A good example is around 70% of Americans, including many enlightened republicans, want Medicare for All. However, since the ultra wealthy don’t want this, it doesn’t happen.

I'm not wealthy and I don't want it.

Government has been looking to control the people forever. They've been somewhat successful. The only two vestiges stopping them from total control over us are healthcare and energy. Once government controls those two things, they have the ability to to totally control our lives from birth to death.

Lol. Well that does it. You don’t want it so that’s the end of story.

Of course you’ve been duped by the wealthy to think as you do.

Our HC system is a total failure. Time to change it.

Funny! You think that the government does such a good job with everything else that we should turn healthcare over to them also?
Tell me one thing that government has ever done that has been done well and done cost effectively.
I would wait but we all know that the answer is nothing.
Funny that everyone used to point to Canada as a shining example of government healthcare. But now suddenly they are realizing that there are extremely long wait times. Canada is moving towards individual healthcare and some Canadians are coming to the U.S. to have things taken care of.
Now why would we want a government that can not properly do anything to do healthcare? Why would we want to follow in Canada’s footsteps when they are coming over to our way.
if we could just get the government to allow insurances to sell the same policy across all states prices would drop. But when you have to have a different policy for one state but then have a completely different one for a state right next to it the cost has to go up. But yet we allow the government to have a hand in screwing up individual insurance.

Yes that’s the old right wing talking point, and it gets you guys every time.

We have a failing HC system. It’s exponentially more expensive than anywhere else in the world, because the ultra wealthy need more money. It also fails millions of Americans as outcomes are poor. For the first time in our nation’s history, life expectancy is dropping. Millions go bankrupt or don’t receive care because they don’t have insurance or can’t afford the absurdly high costs.

Over 70% of Americans want it. Are we a democracy or not?

My healthcare is just fine, I would hate to be thrown in with the lazy dregs and never be able to get an appointment. Stop rewarding people who are not responsible for themselves libber.

Idiot. Why is it some cons only think of themselves. Are they fucking stupid?

I am responsible for myself and family as is every person. Healthcare is a choice not a right, and anyone who chooses to have it may get it just like I did wacko.

Fool. You are completely clueless. The entire western world offers their citizens HC and does it cheaper and with better outcomes. WTFU.

You may have good HC coverage as I do, but millions of Americans don’t. I care about my country and fellow Americans, unlike you.

Riiiigght.....like the country you all bragged about, Italy...and when the virus hit they nearly wiped out their entire country with their great socialized healthcare. Again, if you and I have good healthcare, then anyone else in the US can have it to. It's their responsibilty and their choice, not mine and not yours, nor is it our job to pay for it. If you truly care for others you would stop handing them freebies and make them work for what they want themselves.

Dumb. I’ve never bragged about Italy. Stop thinking the duopoly is the only thing that exists.

Just bringing up an example of idiotic healthcare for the masses, it won't work. I thought you were smarter.

Dumb. Medicare works well and most Americans love it. Think.

Medicare works well if you have supplement. That's the part you left out!

Regular Medicare is expensive, has deductibles and copays that are very high, and you are subject to the whims of the doctors.

Medicare is a pain in the ass with all the paperwork, waiting and bureaucracy. I'm glad I have VA.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Not taxing them isn’t working either. We can’t borrow forever.

While that’s an issue, the much bigger issue is the ultra wealthy buy all sorts of benefits from government. They get what they want and it is almost always at the detriment of the rest of us.

A good example is around 70% of Americans, including many enlightened republicans, want Medicare for All. However, since the ultra wealthy don’t want this, it doesn’t happen.

I'm not wealthy and I don't want it.

Government has been looking to control the people forever. They've been somewhat successful. The only two vestiges stopping them from total control over us are healthcare and energy. Once government controls those two things, they have the ability to to totally control our lives from birth to death.

Lol. Well that does it. You don’t want it so that’s the end of story.

Of course you’ve been duped by the wealthy to think as you do.

Our HC system is a total failure. Time to change it.

Funny! You think that the government does such a good job with everything else that we should turn healthcare over to them also?
Tell me one thing that government has ever done that has been done well and done cost effectively.
I would wait but we all know that the answer is nothing.
Funny that everyone used to point to Canada as a shining example of government healthcare. But now suddenly they are realizing that there are extremely long wait times. Canada is moving towards individual healthcare and some Canadians are coming to the U.S. to have things taken care of.
Now why would we want a government that can not properly do anything to do healthcare? Why would we want to follow in Canada’s footsteps when they are coming over to our way.
if we could just get the government to allow insurances to sell the same policy across all states prices would drop. But when you have to have a different policy for one state but then have a completely different one for a state right next to it the cost has to go up. But yet we allow the government to have a hand in screwing up individual insurance.

Yes that’s the old right wing talking point, and it gets you guys every time.

We have a failing HC system. It’s exponentially more expensive than anywhere else in the world, because the ultra wealthy need more money. It also fails millions of Americans as outcomes are poor. For the first time in our nation’s history, life expectancy is dropping. Millions go bankrupt or don’t receive care because they don’t have insurance or can’t afford the absurdly high costs.

Over 70% of Americans want it. Are we a democracy or not?

My healthcare is just fine, I would hate to be thrown in with the lazy dregs and never be able to get an appointment. Stop rewarding people who are not responsible for themselves libber.

Idiot. Why is it some cons only think of themselves. Are they fucking stupid?

I am responsible for myself and family as is every person. Healthcare is a choice not a right, and anyone who chooses to have it may get it just like I did wacko.

Fool. You are completely clueless. The entire western world offers their citizens HC and does it cheaper and with better outcomes. WTFU.

You may have good HC coverage as I do, but millions of Americans don’t. I care about my country and fellow Americans, unlike you.

Riiiigght.....like the country you all bragged about, Italy...and when the virus hit they nearly wiped out their entire country with their great socialized healthcare. Again, if you and I have good healthcare, then anyone else in the US can have it to. It's their responsibilty and their choice, not mine and not yours, nor is it our job to pay for it. If you truly care for others you would stop handing them freebies and make them work for what they want themselves.

Dumb. I’ve never bragged about Italy. Stop thinking the duopoly is the only thing that exists.

Just bringing up an example of idiotic healthcare for the masses, it won't work. I thought you were smarter.

Dumb. Medicare works well and most Americans love it. Think.

Medicare works well if you have supplement. That's the part you left out!

Regular Medicare is expensive, has deductibles and copays that are very high, and you are subject to the whims of the doctors.

Medicare is a pain in the ass with all the paperwork, waiting and bureaucracy. I'm glad I have VA.

Yes, you are absolutely correct and Gipper has never dealt with Medicare because he is an idiot.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Each year the Medicare premiums, deductibles, and copayment rates are adjusted according to the Social Security Act. For 2020, the Medicare Part B monthly premiums and the annual deductible are higher than the 2019 amounts. The standard monthly premium for Medicare Part B enrollees will be $144.60 for 2020, an increase of $9.10 from $135.50 in 2019. The annual deductible for all Medicare Part B beneficiaries is $198 in 2020, an increase of $13 from the annual deductible of $185 in 2019.

The increase in the Part B premiums and deductible is largely due to rising spending on physician-administered drugs. These higher costs have a ripple effect and result in higher Part B premiums and deductible.

Proud atheist here. Unafraid of burning in hell. But those who promote Parts C & D have been the ones responsible for any and all destruction of regular Medicare (A and B) and they know it.. except for the stupid willing tools..

 

[Viktor]

Tax the billionaires big time. Or prevent them from buying government favors and protection. Or both.

Why should they pay a bigger chunk than we do?? They haven't done anything wrong and don't deserve to be penalized. Only a pirate or a gangster tries to rob the rich just because they have money.

We tax the rich because they have the most money.

When 10% of the people hold 90% of the wealth, what sense does it make to tax those WITHOUT money?

With all respect, Nosmo...we TRY to tax the rich because they have the most money and they laugh at those efforts as they hide their wealth away in tax shelters! You want to actually pry some of that money out of the pockets of the super rich? Enact a flat tax on everyone. The more stuff you buy...the more tax you pay!

We have that already. They are called sales and excise taxes.

 

[Nosmo King]

We tax the rich because they have the most money.

When 10% of the people hold 90% of the wealth, what sense does it make to tax those WITHOUT money?

What sense does it make? Don't they live here too? Don't they use more social goodies than the wealthy? Are they part of this country or another one we don't know about?

When you go to a restaurant, do they charge you by the food you order, or do they charge you by how much wealth you have? How about Disneyland? How about the movie theater?

If we are going to take money from people because they have more than others, why stop there? If you have ten beautiful bushes in front of your house, would it not be fair for government to take five of your bushes and give them to somebody that has none? If you have four big screen televisions, would it not be fair for government to take two of your big screens and give them to a family that has no big screens?

If you really want to take money from the wealthy, then quit giving them your money instead.

The rich aren't aging wealth as they spend money at restaurants or Disneyland. They are gaining wealth because they have money. They aren't laborers. They make money from money.

Don't tax wage earners. They spend money and drive the economy.