The € EURO thread

[JimBowie1958]

You have to wonder what the Germans are thinking these days. It's not like their economy is going all that good right now, they're an export-driven country and nobody else is going to be buying much for awhile. And everyone else in the EC wants them to pony up a lot more money? What'll they do if the ECB starts printing gobs of more euros; I'm sure they are well aware of the Weimar Republic catastrophe and what that lead to.

I think the Germans are thinking, 'When's the fire sale!?!'

 

[JimBowie1958]

I heard today that the Greeks will have elections sometime this April. The guy that many favor to be the next prime minister was quoted as saying they should just pass the austerity measure and take the bailout money (again) and wait until after the elections to decide whether they will honor the terms. Nice. IMHO, the EU can bail Greece out until the cows come home, but eventually the Greeks will have to leave the Euro and go back to their drachma. And anybody who buys their bonds is a fool.

They are pretending to cut back on their spending while the EU pretends to bail them out with more leveraged monopoly money.

 

[Wiseacre]

You have to wonder what the Germans are thinking these days. It's not like their economy is going all that good right now, they're an export-driven country and nobody else is going to be buying much for awhile. And everyone else in the EC wants them to pony up a lot more money? What'll they do if the ECB starts printing gobs of more euros; I'm sure they are well aware of the Weimar Republic catastrophe and what that lead to.

I think the Germans are thinking, 'When's the fire sale!?!'

I think the Germans are thinking, WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?

 

[KissMy]

Fitch cuts Greece's credit rating two notches from "CCC" to "C"

A Fitch statement said it now considered that a Greek debt default was "highly likely in the near term."

 

[editec]

So GREECE is getting that AUSTERIY economic that the Misians all seem to think will solve the problem.

Meanwhile Greece's GDP has dropped 7% in the last year.

That's a solution?!

 

[Trajan]

I heard today that the Greeks will have elections sometime this April. The guy that many favor to be the next prime minister was quoted as saying they should just pass the austerity measure and take the bailout money (again) and wait until after the elections to decide whether they will honor the terms. Nice. IMHO, the EU can bail Greece out until the cows come home, but eventually the Greeks will have to leave the Euro and go back to their drachma. And anybody who buys their bonds is a fool.

and this is not a secret either...you would think the dopes in the EU would get that/ what do thewy exect the greeks to do? Are they watching what we are on the Tele.?

hey they will just elect anyone who tells them they will scrap the austerity deal.

This is tantamount to inmates at the asylum run the place, seriously, how effing smart do you have to be to figure that out, that you should wait to sign a deal till after the elections?

AND lets get real here..........Greece stuck it to the EU right from the git go, less than 18 months after being made a member they restated or more like were forced to restate all of there financial data and their GDP numbers, debt ratio etc. was all BS and would have kept them out of the EU had they been honest, the EU and the Maastricht treaty lost all of its integrity and ability to discipline members, right there.

 

[Trajan]

So GREECE is getting that AUSTERIY economic that the Misians all seem to think will solve the problem.

Meanwhile Greece's GDP has dropped 7% in the last year.

That's a solution?!

*shrugs* it is to the EU fat cats that will sit back and watch paris madrid rome burn when this all comes down.....there is NO growth to be had in Greece that will pay tnis new deal off anyway or keep them current......, so this will be another ritual burning of more money for no gain.

 

[Trajan]

so, whats going on? no one cares about the euro anymore?


anyhow,...I was wondering when this would happen.

I said so, here like 2 months ago, just one not so deeply in trouble player calls for a referendum,,,,,big trouble time. If the Mics say no, several nations, Finland, the Baltic states will revolt too, they've never been on board really with all of the 'shared' risk, debt. child care they have been made to swallow...this can also unravel the EU itself as in the Charters for Judicial machinations, the Hague, etc...go Ireland go, good night nurse, finally.



By EAMON QUINN

DUBLIN—The Irish government announced plans Tuesday to call a referendum on the new European Union budget discipline treaty, a vote it—-and the rest of the euro zone—had hoped to avoid.

Irish Prime Minister Enda Kenny told parliament that he had taken the decision following advice given to his cabinet by his Attorney General Maire Whelan.

Political analysts had said that the public vote could be held before the summer.

It was a vote that the government coalition had tried everything to avoid because unpopular austerity entailed by the country's bailout from the EU, International Monetary and the European Central Bank has made EU institutions most unpopular.

snip-

Irish voters have in the past rejected EU treaty changes at their first time of asking. In 2009 they voted at a second referendum to approve the Lisbon Treaty after the government said it had won increased guarantees from its European partners on several matters, including an assurance on maintaining the country's competitive corporate tax rate.

more at
Ireland to Hold Referendum on EU Treaty - WSJ.com

 

[Trajan]

these numbers are low, last week Barrons had a bit higher..........*shrugs* whats 2-300 Billion to quibble over?


anyway, another 1.3 TRILLION $ to the tab.......

The ECB offered two batches of the loans—first in December and again last week—with low 1% interest rates. Any bank based in the euro zone or with a locally incorporated business there could borrow virtually unlimited sums. In December, 523 banks borrowed €489 billion ($645.5 billion); last week, 800 banks borrowed €530 billion.

EU Bank Units Tap Cheap Cash - WSJ.com


echo echo echo....

 

[Wiseacre]

these numbers are low, last week Barrons had a bit higher..........*shrugs* whats 2-300 Billion to quibble over?


anyway, another 1.3 TRILLION $ to the tab.......

The ECB offered two batches of the loans—first in December and again last week—with low 1% interest rates. Any bank based in the euro zone or with a locally incorporated business there could borrow virtually unlimited sums. In December, 523 banks borrowed €489 billion ($645.5 billion); last week, 800 banks borrowed €530 billion.

EU Bank Units Tap Cheap Cash - WSJ.com


echo echo echo....

Can, meet foot. They're delaying the inevitable.

 

[Trajan]

god what a riot...I have been sorta zoned out on the euro for a while, so I am playing catch up.....

aside from the bond market interposing/introducing some reality in the Spanish issue, the treaty France and Germany cooked up, calls on every participant, ala PIIGS et al, to limit its "cyclically adjusted" budget deficit to no more than 0.5% of GDP....................... and, to add some more acid to the vat of kool aid they are drinking- run a surplus until their debt drops below 60% of GDP.



back in my party days, I would have loved to smoke ingest drink whatever it is these fools are on just for the hell of it, these people are actually serious....this is unhinged from reality.

 

[Wiseacre]

I think the French are just trying to get past their elections, kinda like Obama is trying to do. What's hard to understand is how Merkel and the Germans are going along with this.

 

[Artevelde]

Spain is a major concern but Greece will come back on radar very soon. Parliament must vote on the latest austerity there next week, after which it will be dissolved for early elections (probably on May 6) in which anti-European parties will make great gains. The situation in Greece is really draconian and beyond hope.
Meanwhile Portugal keeps losing all its best people who are looking for jobs and a future elsewhere. Government there makes unbelievable efforts, but the economic base just isn't there.
As for Spain, there too the government is making huge efforts. Spain has more of an economic base, but it's very unevenly spread over the country.
All in all it doesn't look good. I don't think the current Euro zone can hold.

 

[Trajan]

I think the French are just trying to get past their elections, kinda like Obama is trying to do. What's hard to understand is how Merkel and the Germans are going along with this.

well we have lk elder, we can try and ask him, as far as I go, I have several German acquaintances here where I work, between 22-30...if I told you 75% of them carried around this martial continental guilt trip to the point where in they may tell someone they think doesn't know better that they are from Switzerland instead of Germany, would you beleive me?

becasue of you had told me that, I wouldn't...but its true. unfuckingbeleivable ..they have or are, allowing themselves to be guilted into the poor house and do, whats clearly not in their best national interests in Theo long run ( the run is getting shorter too).

 

[Trajan]

annnd the newest contestant in the how do we blow up the EU some more steps forward;


Spanish Banks' ECB Borrowing Hits High

* April 13, 2012, 4:10 p.m. ET

MADRID—Spanish bank borrowing from the European Central Bank surged to new highs in March, the latest sign that skittish international investors have left the euro zone's fourth-largest economy at the mercy of ECB funding at a time when concerns are mounting over Spain's ailing finances and economy.

The fresh bank data, along with worries about the global economy spurred by softer-than-expected Chinese growth, combined to produce a miserable day in European markets. Stocks slid across the region and the euro fell. Spanish markets were particularly hard hit: Stocks dropped 3.6% to a new three-year low and its bond yields neared 6%. The cost of insuring Spanish debt against default soared to its highest on record.

Investors repeated a pattern they have run again and again during the worst days of the euro-zone's debt crisis, fleeing risky assets en masse. The major European stock markets all closed lower. Spanish and Italian bond yields were higher, the euro gave way to the dollar, and investors clamored for safe-haven German bonds.

more at-

Spanish Banks' ECB Borrowing Hits High - WSJ.com

 

[Wiseacre]

It's a house of cards IMHO, only a matter of time before the shit hits the fan. Same thing here, we're just not quite as far down the road yet.

 

[Trajan]

I almost stopped posting here...no seems ot want to talk about anything other than putrid red meat BS politics..


as to your post, god who knows..exampple

hope you can see this..


Surrender, Italian Style
The unions water down Monti's labor reforms.

Review & Outlook: Surrender, Italian Style - WSJ.com


Monti tried to corral the unions and break their job structure straggle hold but they chewed him up, so any growth in Italy will be minimal ....

spain has reformists at the helm too, they need to do same, greece did but it didn't matter italys got shot down...I don't know why these people just cannot face the fact that the euro is a dead end, I guess they want to take the whole machine down rather than admit error.

 

[Toro]

CDS on Spain hit all-time highs today, I heard. Spanish 10-year yields are still well below the highs, however.

Spain still has a problem.

 

[Wiseacre]

I almost stopped posting here...no seems ot want to talk about anything other than putrid red meat BS politics..


as to your post, god who knows..exampple

hope you can see this..


Surrender, Italian Style
The unions water down Monti's labor reforms.

Review & Outlook: Surrender, Italian Style - WSJ.com


Monti tried to corral the unions and break their job structure straggle hold but they chewed him up, so any growth in Italy will be minimal ....

spain has reformists at the helm too, they need to do same, greece did but it didn't matter italys got shot down...I don't know why these people just cannot face the fact that the euro is a dead end, I guess they want to take the whole machine down rather than admit error.

Couldn't read the WSJ story, but I can guess the main point. Nobody wants to face the music, and do what's necessary to right the ship. I just can't see any positive signs for economic growth over there, and the demographics are decidedly unfavorable.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Will Hollande be the spark that burns the EMU to the ground?

Sarkozy's comeback hopes crumble, polls show - Yahoo! News Canada