what determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

[hobelim]

What determines whether a person goes to Heaven or not is a repentant heart.
Re-pent = return to the highest level. (Where we belong) And God keeps His word even if we don't. If you sincerely want forgiveness, you'll turn away from your sin.

Nice post except for one thing that I somehow noticed.

Your worship of a triune entity is idolatry and your false witness that misleads people into setting aside the commands of God is murder. Your entire religion consists of sinful behavior attractive to only those who love and practice deceit.

As you said, if you turn away from your sins you will be forgiven.


Where there is no repentance there is no forgiveness.


You are not at the highest level, you are at the lowest level.

To understand what I meant by saying 'lowest level' see Genesis 3:14

 

[numan]

'

"Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?"
---(Romans 9:21)

Before the foundation of the world, by sheer grace, according to the free good pleasure of his will, [God] chose in Christ to salvation a definite number of particular people out of the entire human race which had fallen by its own fault from its original innocence into sin and ruin.
---Synod of Dort

.

 

[Bill Angel]

'

"Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?"
---(Romans 9:21)

Before the foundation of the world, by sheer grace, according to the free good pleasure of his will, [God] chose in Christ to salvation a definite number of particular people out of the entire human race which had fallen by its own fault from its original innocence into sin and ruin.
---Synod of Dort.

A depiction of the “definite number of particular people“ that were chosen to be saved through Christ?

 

[numan]

'
What's your point?

I can't imagine the real Jesus not thinking "men in suits" to be creepy dorks.

Since I don't fall for religious superstition in general, I certainly am not going to fall for supralapsarianism!!

As I mentioned HERE, I am prone to agree with Leibnitz's Principle of Sufficient Causation and "infinitary causation".

I like your prohibitions, though :

No Nukes -- No Guns -- No Smoking​

If they were in the Bible, I would begin to be impressed.

.

 

[hobelim]

'
What's your point?

I can't imagine the real Jesus not thinking "men in suits" to be creepy dorks.

Since I don't fall for religious superstition in general, I certainly am not going to fall for supralapsarianism!!

As I mentioned HERE, I am prone to agree with Leibnitz's Principle of Sufficient Causation and "infinitary causation".


.

You do know in advance that using big words is bound to cause someones head to explode.

Oh well, perhaps it was preordained before the beginning.

 

[Avatar4321]

What determines whether a person goes to Heaven or not is a repentant heart.
Re-pent = return to the highest level. (Where we belong) And God keeps His word even if we don't. If you sincerely want forgiveness, you'll turn away from your sin.

Nice post except for one thing that I somehow noticed.

Your worship of a triune entity is idolatry and your false witness that misleads people into setting aside the commands of God is murder. Your entire religion consists of sinful behavior attractive to only those who love and practice deceit.

As you said, if you turn away from your sins you will be forgiven.


Where there is no repentance there is no forgiveness.


You are not at the highest level, you are at the lowest level.

To understand what I meant by saying 'lowest level' see Genesis 3:14

Turning away from one's since is the very definition of repentence. How exactly is he wrong by pointing that out?

 

[JohnA]

The reason people believe in Jesus is because there were eyewitnesses of his miracles, or his resurrection, other historical evidence and other reasons because that would be the only way to get man to believe.

As it stands, that is just so silly !!

As if lots of other crap hasn't been written in books, or as if millions of people haven't believed no end of nonsense !!

Don't forget, more people saw Elvis Presley after he died, than ever saw Jesus!! · ·

.

No one has died a torturous death to renounce that they had seen Elvis like they did Jesus.

I'm pretty sure, that if everyone who said that they saw Elvis after he died, was put in a cage of lions to be ripped up and eaten alive, they would renounce that claim very quickly.

The eyewitnesses of Jesus did not.

you believe whatever you choose to from the bile and disregard the stuff you dont that
doesnt fir into your little world of make believe .
like the poster last week on another site said in answer to the statement the old testament is fables stories etc
the new testament is the truth
so i answered the 10 commandments are fiction?

 

[Avatar4321]

As it stands, that is just so silly !!

As if lots of other crap hasn't been written in books, or as if millions of people haven't believed no end of nonsense !!

Don't forget, more people saw Elvis Presley after he died, than ever saw Jesus!! · ·

.

No one has died a torturous death to renounce that they had seen Elvis like they did Jesus.

I'm pretty sure, that if everyone who said that they saw Elvis after he died, was put in a cage of lions to be ripped up and eaten alive, they would renounce that claim very quickly.

The eyewitnesses of Jesus did not.

you believe whatever you choose to from the bile and disregard the stuff you dont that
doesnt fir into your little world of make believe .
like the poster last week on another site said in answer to the statement the old testament is fables stories etc
the new testament is the truth
so i answered the 10 commandments are fiction?

So what exactly does peach disregard? Please, I'd love to know. Because if you don't know, then it's clear you are lying about her.

 

[numan]

The reason people believe in Jesus is because there were eyewitnesses of his miracles, or his resurrection, other historical evidence and other reasons because that would be the only way to get man to believe.

As it stands, that is just so silly !!

As if lots of other crap hasn't been written in books, or as if millions of people haven't believed no end of nonsense !!

Don't forget, more people saw Elvis Presley after he died, than ever saw Jesus!! · ·

No one has died a torturous death to renounce that they had seen Elvis like they did Jesus.

I'm pretty sure, that if everyone who said that they saw Elvis after he died, was put in a cage of lions to be ripped up and eaten alive, they would renounce that claim very quickly.

The eyewitnesses of Jesus did not.

Well, IF some of those silly legends about early Christians are true, then it simply shows that even the people who believe Elvis rose from the dead are less stupid and goofy than the those Christian fanatics you are so proud of.

However, I agree with the analysis of Edward Gibbon in The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire that during the three centuries the Christians were outlawed as criminals, the total number of fanatics executed was quite small in numbers -- especially considering the general ruthlessness of the times.

Probably similar to the proportion of Moslems who become suicide bombers -- with whom the "martyrs" shared many aspects of psychology.

.

 

[hobelim]

What determines whether a person goes to Heaven or not is a repentant heart.
Re-pent = return to the highest level. (Where we belong) And God keeps His word even if we don't. If you sincerely want forgiveness, you'll turn away from your sin.

Nice post except for one thing that I somehow noticed.

Your worship of a triune entity is idolatry and your false witness that misleads people into setting aside the commands of God is murder. Your entire religion consists of sinful behavior attractive to only those who love and practice deceit.

As you said, if you turn away from your sins you will be forgiven.


Where there is no repentance there is no forgiveness.


You are not at the highest level, you are at the lowest level.

To understand what I meant by saying 'lowest level' see Genesis 3:14

Turning away from one's since is the very definition of repentence. How exactly is he wrong by pointing that out?

The defiant worship of an edible triune mangod is by definition the exact opposite of repentance.

He/she is just a hypocrite whose subtle deceptions are designed to lure people into sin. Any sincere seeker of truth and God would have repented a long time ago.

Didn't you never read the story of the serpent in the garden?

The only difference is, this is no imaginary fairy tale character

 

[Bumberclyde]

What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

Since heaven has NEVER been proven to exist, I'd say nothing.
Anyways, it's a stupid concept to think of a deity who'll send you to burn for eternity because you didn't idolize it enough. Laughable really.

 

[hobelim]

What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

Since heaven has NEVER been proven to exist, I'd say nothing.
Anyways, it's a stupid concept to think of a deity who'll send you to burn for eternity because you didn't idolize it enough. Laughable really.

Try to think of it like this;


Lets say that you had a friend who was involved in self destructive thinking and behavior and you told them that if they didn't stop and get their act together they would end up either dead or in jail.

If they did not listen and ended up dead or in jail would it be because you were punishing them?


In the same way the laws of God are a light, a clear instruction on how to experience the fullest potential of human life.

Those who conform to the laws demands enter the kingdom of heaven, a realm of conscious existence where God dwells that is defined by the boundaries of thought and behavior set forth in the law.

Those who do not, suffer the consequences of their own actions. Not as a punishment from God but a result of cause and effect.


If you fill your mind with irrational nonsense you will become confused and say and do stupid things bringing great evil upon yourself and others.


The consequent realm of confusion for setting aside this command is death and hell, a figurative place of real torment and confusion that many people here are actually in now, not as a future punishment but as a current consequence of their own actions..

Entering heaven is as easy or as difficult as it is for a person to be honest enough to purify their own minds and become refined.

 

[Bumberclyde]

What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

Since heaven has NEVER been proven to exist, I'd say nothing.
Anyways, it's a stupid concept to think of a deity who'll send you to burn for eternity because you didn't idolize it enough. Laughable really.

Try to think of it like this;
Lets say that you had a friend who was involved in self destructive thinking and behavior and you told them that if they didn't stop and get their act together they would end up either dead or in jail.

If they did not listen and ended up dead or in jail would it be because you were punishing them?


In the same way the laws of God are a light, a clear instruction on how to experience the fullest potential of human life.

Those who conform to the laws demands enter the kingdom of heaven, a realm of conscious existence where God dwells that is defined by the boundaries of thought and behavior set forth in the law.

Those who do not, suffer the consequences of their own actions. Not as a punishment from God but a result of cause and effect.

If you fill your mind with irrational nonsense you will become confused and say and do stupid things bringing great evil upon yourself and others.

The consequent realm of confusion for setting aside this command is death and hell, a figurative place of real torment and confusion that many people here are actually in now, not as a future punishment but as a current consequence of their own actions..

Entering heaven is as easy or as difficult as it is for a person to be honest enough to purify their own minds and become refined.

But since god made everything, he's going to allow me to burn in hell because I didn't follow his laws that he never told me about? That's stupid.
Btw, if that IS the case, then there must be no one in heaven.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Since heaven has NEVER been proven to exist, I'd say nothing.
Anyways, it's a stupid concept to think of a deity who'll send you to burn for eternity because you didn't idolize it enough. Laughable really.

Try to think of it like this;
Lets say that you had a friend who was involved in self destructive thinking and behavior and you told them that if they didn't stop and get their act together they would end up either dead or in jail.

If they did not listen and ended up dead or in jail would it be because you were punishing them?


In the same way the laws of God are a light, a clear instruction on how to experience the fullest potential of human life.

Those who conform to the laws demands enter the kingdom of heaven, a realm of conscious existence where God dwells that is defined by the boundaries of thought and behavior set forth in the law.

Those who do not, suffer the consequences of their own actions. Not as a punishment from God but a result of cause and effect.

If you fill your mind with irrational nonsense you will become confused and say and do stupid things bringing great evil upon yourself and others.

The consequent realm of confusion for setting aside this command is death and hell, a figurative place of real torment and confusion that many people here are actually in now, not as a future punishment but as a current consequence of their own actions..

Entering heaven is as easy or as difficult as it is for a person to be honest enough to purify their own minds and become refined.

But since god made everything, he's going to allow me to burn in hell because I didn't follow his laws that he never told me about? That's stupid.
Btw, if that IS the case, then there must be no one in heaven.

Makes sense. They don't want the real heaven cluttered up with all of the riff-raff. So they probably have a timeshare "heaven-lite" with casinos and floor shows and Jesus shows up for special occasions and sings "I was born under a wandering star".

 

[koshergrl]

Since heaven has NEVER been proven to exist, I'd say nothing.
Anyways, it's a stupid concept to think of a deity who'll send you to burn for eternity because you didn't idolize it enough. Laughable really.

Try to think of it like this;
Lets say that you had a friend who was involved in self destructive thinking and behavior and you told them that if they didn't stop and get their act together they would end up either dead or in jail.

If they did not listen and ended up dead or in jail would it be because you were punishing them?


In the same way the laws of God are a light, a clear instruction on how to experience the fullest potential of human life.

Those who conform to the laws demands enter the kingdom of heaven, a realm of conscious existence where God dwells that is defined by the boundaries of thought and behavior set forth in the law.

Those who do not, suffer the consequences of their own actions. Not as a punishment from God but a result of cause and effect.

If you fill your mind with irrational nonsense you will become confused and say and do stupid things bringing great evil upon yourself and others.

The consequent realm of confusion for setting aside this command is death and hell, a figurative place of real torment and confusion that many people here are actually in now, not as a future punishment but as a current consequence of their own actions..

Entering heaven is as easy or as difficult as it is for a person to be honest enough to purify their own minds and become refined.

But since god made everything, he's going to allow me to burn in hell because I didn't follow his laws that he never told me about? That's stupid.
Btw, if that IS the case, then there must be no one in heaven.

Yeah..God is *stupid* and doesn't exist because you can't wrap your pea brain around the concept.

So do you think nuclear science is *stupid* too? Cuz I'm fairly certain you couldn't explain that to anyone, either.

 

[Bumberclyde]

Try to think of it like this;
Lets say that you had a friend who was involved in self destructive thinking and behavior and you told them that if they didn't stop and get their act together they would end up either dead or in jail.

If they did not listen and ended up dead or in jail would it be because you were punishing them?


In the same way the laws of God are a light, a clear instruction on how to experience the fullest potential of human life.

Those who conform to the laws demands enter the kingdom of heaven, a realm of conscious existence where God dwells that is defined by the boundaries of thought and behavior set forth in the law.

Those who do not, suffer the consequences of their own actions. Not as a punishment from God but a result of cause and effect.

If you fill your mind with irrational nonsense you will become confused and say and do stupid things bringing great evil upon yourself and others.

The consequent realm of confusion for setting aside this command is death and hell, a figurative place of real torment and confusion that many people here are actually in now, not as a future punishment but as a current consequence of their own actions..

Entering heaven is as easy or as difficult as it is for a person to be honest enough to purify their own minds and become refined.

But since god made everything, he's going to allow me to burn in hell because I didn't follow his laws that he never told me about? That's stupid.
Btw, if that IS the case, then there must be no one in heaven.

Yeah..God is *stupid* and doesn't exist because you can't wrap your pea brain around the concept.

So do you think nuclear science is *stupid* too? Cuz I'm fairly certain you couldn't explain that to anyone, either.

If a god did exist, then even a pea brain like me could tell. Or are you saying that the mentally retarded can't get into heaven because they can't understand the concept of god?.

 

[Avatar4321]

If a god did exist, then even a pea brain like me could tell. Or are you saying that the mentally retarded can't get into heaven because they can't understand the concept of god?.

The innocent who are incapable of understanding the law are not punished by the law. The Atonement covers those who are innocent. Just not those who are willfully ignorant unless they repent.

 

[Avatar4321]

Since heaven has NEVER been proven to exist, I'd say nothing.
Anyways, it's a stupid concept to think of a deity who'll send you to burn for eternity because you didn't idolize it enough. Laughable really.

Try to think of it like this;
Lets say that you had a friend who was involved in self destructive thinking and behavior and you told them that if they didn't stop and get their act together they would end up either dead or in jail.

If they did not listen and ended up dead or in jail would it be because you were punishing them?


In the same way the laws of God are a light, a clear instruction on how to experience the fullest potential of human life.

Those who conform to the laws demands enter the kingdom of heaven, a realm of conscious existence where God dwells that is defined by the boundaries of thought and behavior set forth in the law.

Those who do not, suffer the consequences of their own actions. Not as a punishment from God but a result of cause and effect.

If you fill your mind with irrational nonsense you will become confused and say and do stupid things bringing great evil upon yourself and others.

The consequent realm of confusion for setting aside this command is death and hell, a figurative place of real torment and confusion that many people here are actually in now, not as a future punishment but as a current consequence of their own actions..

Entering heaven is as easy or as difficult as it is for a person to be honest enough to purify their own minds and become refined.

But since god made everything, he's going to allow me to burn in hell because I didn't follow his laws that he never told me about? That's stupid.
Btw, if that IS the case, then there must be no one in heaven.

It's not following the law that saves a person because everyone violates the law. That's why we have an Atonement.

 

[Chuckt]

If a god did exist, then even a pea brain like me could tell. Or are you saying that the mentally retarded can't get into heaven because they can't understand the concept of god?.

I think God can look at the mentally handicapped person's heart and say they are a child because they don't have the same understanding as an adult:

Matthew 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Their excuse is they can't understand because they are handicapped. What is your excuse for not believing when you aren't handicapped?

You're offended and arguing because someone looked after your better good and offered you the chance to go to heaven?

 

[Bumberclyde]

If a god did exist, then even a pea brain like me could tell. Or are you saying that the mentally retarded can't get into heaven because they can't understand the concept of god?.

The innocent who are incapable of understanding the law are not punished by the law. The Atonement covers those who are innocent. Just not those who are willfully ignorant unless they repent.

There was a Hell's Angels guy who got shot a few year ago and was buried in a church. So the reporter asked the priest: how come he's allowed to be buried in a church? He led a life of crime, murder and drugs? The priest replied: who knows, maybe he repented a split second before he died.
So I'm thinking, that's what I'll do just to be sure, as you folks would say.