What Is "Fair Share of Taxes"?

[The T]

WHY is there even a REBATE? Could it BE thatGovernment is taxing way too much?

NAH...couldn't be that could it?

Nope. The rebate is to make it less regressive.

In othr words Class warfare?

WRONG.

The Government is taxing too much, and spending too much PERIOD.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Want to know why a flat tax is retarded?

You earn 200,000. The government takes half. You're not STARVING.
You earn 20,000...the government takes half. You're out on the street.

Flat taxes fall MUCH more heavily on poor people. Which is why most countries don't do it, you fucking tardbuckets.

Who here has advocated for a 50% flat tax?

You, that's who.

You say the average person pays 11% income tax. Add to that payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and state income taxes, and we're near 50%. The proposed national sales tax (so-called Fair Tax) is 23% (but, it comes with a significant universal rebate), to maintain parity with current IRS individual tax revenues. The Pizza Boy, who tanked God Father's Pizza, proposed 9% flat income tax + 9% national sales tax, to maintain parity current IRS individual tax revenues.

Where did I advocate for a 50% flat tax? Find the post if you can.

Payroll taxes are NOT income taxes. I only used income tax figures. But I'm all for getting rid of payroll taxes because people would be better off if they had that 15% of their lifetime incomes to save on their own. I'm not a fan of the Fair Tax as it's too complicated. Everyone should pay the same percentage of their gross income as I said 11% would be just about right but I'd be OK with 15% as long as all deductions exemptions and loopholes are eliminated.

State taxes have no bearing on federal taxes never did never will. If you don't want to pay your state taxes move to a state with lower taxes.

 

[snakedoc]

]Obama keeps pushing his "fair share" of taxes in his speeches. What is fair? Fair is a relative term which means different things to different people. There is no set rule for what one thinks is fair. Is it fair that over forty percent of potential taxpayers pay absolutley no taxes at all? They probably think that is fair. But, do people who pay all the taxes think that is fair? Probably not! Is it fair that people who make more the a million dollars a year pay the largest portion of the federal income taxes? You probably think it is fair but they think they are already paying more than their fair share. So, you can see this is a fruitless debate. It all comes down to there is no way for the government to raise people in lower income brackets to higher ones. Each individual can only do that themselves. Since government can not raise these people to higher levels, in their misguided thinking the only thing they can do is knock the higher income people down as far as they can through tax rates. That at best is un-American and at worst tyrannical government.

This is the question no one can ever answer you ask ten different people what a fair share is the odds are very good you will get ten different answers.

 

[The T]

Who here has advocated for a 50% flat tax?

You, that's who.

You say the average person pays 11% income tax. Add to that payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and state income taxes, and we're near 50%. The proposed national sales tax (so-called Fair Tax) is 23% (but, it comes with a significant universal rebate), to maintain parity with current IRS individual tax revenues. The Pizza Boy, who tanked God Father's Pizza, proposed 9% flat income tax + 9% national sales tax, to maintain parity current IRS individual tax revenues.

Where did I advocate for a 50% flat tax? Find the post if you can.

Payroll taxes are NOT income taxes. I only used income tax figures. But I'm all for getting rid of payroll taxes because people would be better off if they had that 15% of their lifetime incomes to save on their own. I'm not a fan of the Fair Tax as it's too complicated. Everyone should pay the same percentage of their gross income as I said 11% would be just about right but I'd be OK with 15% as long as all deductions exemptions and loopholes are eliminated.

State taxes have no bearing on federal taxes never did never will. If you don't want to pay your state taxes move to a state with lower taxes.

Or none at all like Florida or Texas.

 

[Ariux]

Payroll taxes are NOT income taxes.

Payroll taxes are flat taxes on earned income, with no deductions. Just because you call them something else doesn't mean they're not income taxes, huge income taxes on working people (with half of it hidden), but not on rich people. And, there's still state and local taxes.

Someone pointed out that 50% taxes on $200,000 doesn't prevent someone from living comfortably. But, 50% taxes on $20,000 is a hardship. Your reply is that no one is advocating a 50% flat tax. But, you are advocating a 50% tax on $20,0000, you're just playing games about it.

I only used income tax figures. But I'm all for getting rid of payroll taxes because people would be better off if they had that 15% of their lifetime incomes to save on their own.

15.3%, and that still excludes state and local payroll taxes (e.g. unemployment tax).

Social Security is 12.4%. But, it's not the investment that you seem to believe it is. It is a tax. The government has already committed the money, and if it's removed, the government would have to increase taxes elsewhere, or cut spending (which the people you vote for would never do). Also, the neo-conservative idea of coerced investment is a perverse idea, but I won't go into that here.

If you don't want to pay your state taxes move to a state with lower taxes.

You must be a relative of Queen Marie Antoinette.

There are some lower tax-states, but moving isn't always practical. And, those low-tax states really aren't so low, and their taxes are always creeping up.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Actually dont move, those people move into low tax states and vote for higher taxes, then they have to move again, we call them morons

 

[blackhawk]

As far as I can tell fair share means someone else paying more than you.

 

[Immanuel]

You conservatives aren't going to LIKE this very much.


I. The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.

Adam Smith
Wealth of Nations.

Let me know when you have a more definitive source than the father of modern economics.

You conservatives aren't going to LIKE this very much.

It is odd that you should say that because that is basically what conservatives say, while liberals say that the poor should pay little or no income tax and the "rich", defined by them as anyone making one more dollar than they make. should pay 60... 70... 80... 90... dare I say 100% above a certain amount?

Liberals believe that the rich should be punished for being... well, well off.

Maybe you should get with the program, Ravage?

Immie

 

[Freedomlover]

There have been some very thought provoking ideas in response to my post. One of the best I have seen in a long time. Thanks everyone.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Fair share is this. The percentage of wealth that a person owns of the total nations wealth should be the same percentage of taxes they payu

 

[Skull Pilot]

Payroll taxes are NOT income taxes.

Payroll taxes are flat taxes on earned income, with no deductions. Just because you call them something else doesn't mean they're not income taxes, huge income taxes on working people (with half of it hidden), but not on rich people. And, there's still state and local taxes.

For Christ's sake how many times do we have to rehash the fucking definitions here.

Federal income taxes are those calculated from W2s on the form 1040 and its various schedules.

FICA taxes are not included in income tax calculations.

And since we are talking about Obama here one should be smart enough to assume that federal taxes specifically federal income taxes are the subject not state taxes.

Someone pointed out that 50% taxes on $200,000 doesn't prevent someone from living comfortably. But, 50% taxes on $20,000 is a hardship. Your reply is that no one is advocating a 50% flat tax. But, you are advocating a 50% tax on $20,0000, you're just playing games about it.

More liberal math. 11% is now the same as 50%

I only used income tax figures. But I'm all for getting rid of payroll taxes because people would be better off if they had that 15% of their lifetime incomes to save on their own.

15.3%, and that still excludes state and local payroll taxes (e.g. unemployment tax).

You can't include state local taxes in a discussion about federal income tax. As I said if you're unhappy with the taxes in your state find a state with a different tax rate and move there.

Social Security is 12.4%. But, it's not the investment that you seem to believe it is. It is a tax. The government has already committed the money, and if it's removed, the government would have to increase taxes elsewhere, or cut spending (which the people you vote for would never do). Also, the neo-conservative idea of coerced investment is a perverse idea, but I won't go into that here.

Actually An employee does not pay 12.4% he only pays 6.2% and for this year at least he is only paying 4.2%

And Social Security is not an investment. I have shown countless times here that if one had control over the 15% of lifetime income that the government takes for SS that they'd be much better off.

If you don't want to pay your state taxes move to a state with lower taxes.

You must be a relative of Queen Marie Antoinette.

There are some lower tax-states, but moving isn't always practical. And, those low-tax states really aren't so low, and their taxes are always creeping up.

Again state taxes have nothing to do with federal taxes. They never did and they never will.

If you want to discuss state taxes start another thread and maybe a couple people here who happen to live in your state and you can talk about it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Fair share is this. The percentage of wealth that a person owns of the total nations wealth should be the same percentage of taxes they payu

Do you want to pay federal taxes on your furniture, your cars, your I pods etc. Because the only way to tax wealth is to calculate net worth and to calculate net worth you have to include everything you own.

So do you really want the government counting how many pairs of boxers are in your drawer?

 

[American_Jihad]

What Is the Fair Share of Taxes?
Why voters fall victim to political charlatans.
March 3, 2016
Walter Williams

...

Politicians love to trick people by suggesting that they will not impose taxes on them but on some other entity instead. To demonstrate the trick, suppose you are a homeowner and a politician tells you that he is not going to tax you, he is just going to tax your land. You would easily see the political chicanery. Land cannot and does not pay taxes. Again, only people pay taxes.

Leftist politicians often call for raising the death tax, euphemistically called inheritance tax. The inheritance tax brings in less than 1 percent of federal revenue. It is on the books because it serves the interests of jealousy, envy and our collective desire to tax the so-called rich. The effects of inheritance taxes are economically damaging. It has this impact because in order for people to pay the death tax, they often must sell producing assets, such as farms, factories, stocks and bonds. These are high-powered dollars that are shifted from productive activity to government consumptive activity.

Too many Americans are ignorant of tax issues and thus fall easy prey to the nation's charlatans and quacks.

What Is the Fair Share of Taxes?

 

[LeftofLeft]

You conservatives aren't going to LIKE this very much.


I. The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.

Adam Smith
Wealth of Nations.

Let me know when you have a more definitive source than the father of modern economics.

Neither are you Liberals. Look at the second half of what you have in bold. "In proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state". If a high income earner pays $35,000 one year in taxes and someone pays $4,000, the higher earner should "enjoy" $35,000 in revenue provided by the state. That means the higher earner should get more from the state in return based on some type of value of services.

 

[Clementine]

What Is the Fair Share of Taxes?
Why voters fall victim to political charlatans.
March 3, 2016
Walter Williams

...

Politicians love to trick people by suggesting that they will not impose taxes on them but on some other entity instead. To demonstrate the trick, suppose you are a homeowner and a politician tells you that he is not going to tax you, he is just going to tax your land. You would easily see the political chicanery. Land cannot and does not pay taxes. Again, only people pay taxes.

Leftist politicians often call for raising the death tax, euphemistically called inheritance tax. The inheritance tax brings in less than 1 percent of federal revenue. It is on the books because it serves the interests of jealousy, envy and our collective desire to tax the so-called rich. The effects of inheritance taxes are economically damaging. It has this impact because in order for people to pay the death tax, they often must sell producing assets, such as farms, factories, stocks and bonds. These are high-powered dollars that are shifted from productive activity to government consumptive activity.

Too many Americans are ignorant of tax issues and thus fall easy prey to the nation's charlatans and quacks.

What Is the Fair Share of Taxes?

It is downright sleazy to force people to lose their inheritance because of high taxes. The politicians who do this only see a pile of money to spend instead of family businesses that took years to build. They are clueless about how wealth is created and only know how to confiscate and spend.

Thinking that taxes are only for the wealthy is like believing that government taking away freedom only applies to criminals.

 

[Wilbur Right]

Nearly 50% of Americans pay no taxes and these same people are the same people that receive the most support form the government.

That's because of the EITC. Which was brought to us by republicans. And could be eliminated by republicans. They do control congress. Right?

Why won't republicans eliminate the EITC?

 

[Clementine]

That's because of the EITC. Which was brought to us by republicans. And could be eliminated by republicans. They do control congress. Right?

Why won't republicans eliminate the EITC?

And Obama would sign off on that? Have Dems attempted to eliminate it when they were in power? Would they be on board if the Repubs tried? Or is it the fault of every damn one of them who have done nothing over the years?

Virtually every problem we have is Washington's fault and that means both parties. While only the Dems can take credit for the mess known as Obamacare, they've all had power at one time or another so when they don't repeal things or come up with good plans, shouldn't we blame them all?

I think we need term limits. Career politicians are the worst. They spend more time furthering their own careers and will kiss any butt to do that. It's no longer an honor to serve your country and they all act like spoiled royalty. They know that nearly half of the population are reliant on some form of government aid and that's a lot of votes. Of course, they are going to keep sweetening the pot because they know that eventually the takers will outnumber the makers and that makes them the ones to court.

That always means new taxes for those who have been independent. Bad enough we were forced into Social Security and now Obamacare. Doesn't mean everyone approves of those things.

Some of the people being hit with taxes are those that are several paychecks away from being the ones who help to the ones needing help. No one in Washington has gone after the wealthy and they never will. They attack middle class, which is why it's shrinking. They are destroying those who are making their programs possible. They are slowly running out of other people's money and desperately finding new ways to confiscate it.

We hear Dems say that anyone working a full time job should make enough to live on. That means jobs meant for teenagers or adults wanting part time jobs are suddenly supposed to be enough to raise a family. And while they preach about the rest of us paying our fair share, we are becoming more and more strapped as our budgets reach the breaking point. How many more taxes do they think we can take and still pay the mortgage, home insurance, health insurance, college loans, car loans and insurance, food, utilities and other necessities? I know many who had to give up cable TV and internet because they can no longer afford it, yet the left is saying that those on welfare should have free internet. Some had to give up saving for retirement because there is nothing left after bills.

People who work and make good money also pay good money for everything. No free rides. I am tired of idiots pointing their fingers at middle class and saying we need to pay our fair share. We do and always have. And some assholes think it's not good enough because we still have some money in the bank.

 

[Contumacious]

That's because of the EITC. Which was brought to us by republicans. And could be eliminated by republicans. They do control congress. Right?

Why won't republicans eliminate the EITC?

And Obama would sign off on that? Have Dems attempted to eliminate it when they were in power? Would they be on board if the Repubs tried? Or is it the fault of every damn one of them who have done nothing over the years?

Virtually every problem we have is Washington's fault and that means both parties. While only the Dems can take credit for the mess known as Obamacare, they've all had power at one time or another so when they don't repeal things or come up with good plans, shouldn't we blame them all?

I think we need term limits. Career politicians are the worst. They spend more time furthering their own careers and will kiss any butt to do that. It's no longer an honor to serve your country and they all act like spoiled royalty. They know that nearly half of the population are reliant on some form of government aid and that's a lot of votes. Of course, they are going to keep sweetening the pot because they know that eventually the takers will outnumber the makers and that makes them the ones to court.

That always means new taxes for those who have been independent. Bad enough we were forced into Social Security and now Obamacare. Doesn't mean everyone approves of those things.

Some of the people being hit with taxes are those that are several paychecks away from being the ones who help to the ones needing help. No one in Washington has gone after the wealthy and they never will. They attack middle class, which is why it's shrinking. They are destroying those who are making their programs possible. They are slowly running out of other people's money and desperately finding new ways to confiscate it.

We hear Dems say that anyone working a full time job should make enough to live on. That means jobs meant for teenagers or adults wanting part time jobs are suddenly supposed to be enough to raise a family. And while they preach about the rest of us paying our fair share, we are becoming more and more strapped as our budgets reach the breaking point. How many more taxes do they think we can take and still pay the mortgage, home insurance, health insurance, college loans, car loans and insurance, food, utilities and other necessities? I know many who had to give up cable TV and internet because they can no longer afford it, yet the left is saying that those on welfare should have free internet. Some had to give up saving for retirement because there is nothing left after bills.

People who work and make good money also pay good money for everything. No free rides. I am tired of idiots pointing their fingers at middle class and saying we need to pay our fair share. We do and always have. And some assholes think it's not good enough because we still have some money in the bank.

Jury Nullification

Remember , when you are a juror and someone is accused of failing to pay his fair share find the defendant NOT guilty.


.

 

[my2¢]

I'd tax only dead people who won't feel the pain.

 

[gallantwarrior]

All should pay some. We all enjoy the benefits of our country. Nobody should get a free ride. Nearly 50% of Americans pay no taxes and these same people are the same people that receive the most support form the government. It should be "all pay some and not some pay all"

Not only do they not pay taxes, they receive tax rebates for income not earned. EIC.